The Sorcerer's Apprentice

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

b3

[d]r4rk1/ppq1bppb/1n3n1p/2pP1P2/2P1P3/1PQ2N2/P2N2PP/R1B1R1K1 b - - 0 7

SF plays Ne8 with evaluation 41 cp for Black.
[d]r3nrk1/ppq1bppb/1n5p/2pP1P2/2P1P3/1PQ2N2/P2N2PP/R1B1R1K1 w - - 1 21

Nf1

[d]r3nrk1/ppq1bppb/1n5p/2pP1P2/2P1P3/1PQ2N2/P5PP/R1B1RNK1 b - - 0 8

[lantonov]

[d]2k4r/pb1p4/1p1b1qp1/5n2/3p2Q1/1B1P1PP1/PPP4P/R1B2RK1 b - - 0 1

In this position (Mukhin-Bronstein, 1959, from the Sorcerer's Apprentice, p. 50) SF found the right move 19 ... Bxg3 in 20 sec.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Louis, sorry, that will be my last move for today, tomorrow will continue, if SF has not resigned by then.

[peter]

Nothing can stop me.
Only thing that can stop me is when Louis says, Let's break it.

I don't want to stop you neither Louis, but could the two of you once in a while consider to play these "games" by PM if you're simply not able to come to a presentable conclusion of any home- analysis on your own?

And if you then both think they are of common interest, show only the parts with any kind of outcome without all that slapdash trial and error and trial again ?

I can understand that with each and every new public belly flopper your will to show you're the great Zauberlehrling grows (the analogy in Goethes sense ist really good by the way, in the sense of "In die Ecke, Besen, Besen, seid's gewesen. Denn als Geister ruft euch nur zu seinem Zwecke
erst hervor der alte Meister." ) but that's a vicious circle too, Luydmil.

Sincerely your Baumwolle

[lantonov]

"In die Ecke, Besen, Besen, seid's gewesen. Denn als Geister ruft euch nur zu seinem Zwecke
erst hervor der alte Meister.".

Google translate of this is worse that the ramblings of a madman.

[zullil]

I don't want to stop you neither Louis, but could the two of you once in a while consider to play these "games" by PM

I've often worried that these "games" are an inappropriate use of the forum. For me they are easy to "play". I just relay moves to and from Stockfish, while I work at other activities. I must admit that I don't have a lot of time to really think about the positions that arise. What has kept me from stopping is my belief---perhaps very wrong---that some others find the games entertaining. And also my knowing that no one is forced to look at the thread.

I think I'll finish the game in progress, and then take a break from this practice. Or follow your suggestion to play via PM.

[zullil]

Nf1

[d]r3nrk1/ppq1bppb/1n5p/2pP1P2/2P1P3/1PQ2N2/P5PP/R1B1RNK1 b - - 0 8

SF plays f6 with evaluation of 53 cp for Black.
[d]r3nrk1/ppq1b1pb/1n3p1p/2pP1P2/2P1P3/1PQ2N2/P5PP/R1B1RNK1 w - - 0 22

Your move when you return.

[lantonov]

I think I'll finish the game in progress, and then take a break from this practice. Or follow your suggestion to play via PM.

Please don't break. I'll miss those games or whatever. Talkchess will not be the same without them.

[Vladimir Xern]

I don't want to stop you neither Louis, but could the two of you once in a while consider to play these "games" by PM

I've often worried that these "games" are an inappropriate use of the forum. For me they are easy to "play". I just relay moves to and from Stockfish, while I work at other activities. I must admit that I don't have a lot of time to really think about the positions that arise. What has kept me from stopping is my belief---perhaps very wrong---that some others find the games entertaining. And also my knowing that no one is forced to look at the thread.

Hi, Louis.

I have to admit that I follow these threads religiously, rarely for the chess itself anymore, but increasingly for the schadenfreude as Lyudmil's overweening claims are repeatedly dashed against the rocks of Stockfish.

That you respond with move after move and accept do-over after do-over, so steadfastly and meekly, provides the means for this entertainment and is very admirable. My only fear is that your humility will somehow rub off on Lyudmil, and the show would be over very quickly thereafter.

[peter]

Please don't break. I'll miss those games or whatever. Talkchess will not be the same without them.

Ok then, I don't want to be a killjoy, and finally I found it entertaing once and again too.

But in the meantime it's getting a little too much as for my personal taste.

So I just would appreciate some a little shorter ways of "finding the truth", I remember in the beginning of these in the meantime quite traditional dialogues there were some other formatting used, Louis showed the whole output and Lyudmil picked out a certain move of his dislike for continuation.
That of course was a little unfair against the engine, I guess therefore that was left.

But maybe something in between would be possible: Lyudmil gives a little more then one move only always, some kind of few- move- lines should be possible having a certain plan and having considered the counter- plans too (something, that I sometimes think, Lyudmil doesn't really like to do ), and so as well as for the lines of Louis' engine: Louis could just let it play out its lines to a certain length of some moves too, that at least would have the advantage, that the engine would compute from both sides of the positions in exchange and in follow- up- positions, and the hash would not be deleted with every new start of computing.
So the little disadvantage of shortening the very deep search taken, with such a hardware I guess 10'per move should be enough and we'd have 5 moves for both sides in 1 to 2 hours, which Lyudmil could use for his own analysis of some more moves then a single one.

I guess that would help him too, even if he always proclaims there wasn't any hurry, to me it always seems, he simply is too impatient.


As far as the lines would match, the "game" progressed.

Some kind of blitz- corr. too, but without backward- solving of the engine, I guess that still should keep Lyudmil's chances well alive, having the support of the same engine playing against anyhow too.

At least not always such neverending lists of postings with move after move, when usually the outcome is clear after a few moves only anyhow, even if the outcome is often enough, that there isn't any, cause it doesn't fit Lyudmil's evals and then the whole thing has to start all over again at once.


And as for

"In die Ecke, Besen, Besen, seid's gewesen. Denn als Geister ruft euch nur zu seinem Zwecke
erst hervor der alte Meister.".

Google translate of this is worse that the ramblings of a madman.

http://german.about.com/library/blgzauberl.htm

is one of the trials I found to translate the whole poem, I yet don't like such, you cannot really translate poetry