Anti-Human feature

[MikeGL]

Wouldn't it be nice if there's a 'tick box' or engine feature for anti-human? I remember Rebel program of Schröder has this feature against Vishy Anand. Engine prefers weaker move but messy (ie complex, complicated) positions which will put humans into a disadvantage.

Take for instance the below position:

[d]r1b1k2r/pp1nbppp/2p1pn2/q3N3/2B5/2N5/P1PP1PPP/1RBQR1K1 w kq - 4 11

Nxd7 is probably best for some engines, but Nxf7 is a bit inferior but will be messy and difficult for humans.

The above position arised after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 Qxb4 5.Rb1 Qa5 6.Nf3 c6 7.Bc4 Nf6 8.O-O e6 9.Re1 Be7 10.Ne5 Nbd7 [see diagram above]

[zullil]

Nxd7 is probably best for some engines, but Nxf7 is a bit inferior but will be messy and difficult for humans.

The above position arised after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 Qxb4 5.Rb1 Qa5 6.Nf3 c6 7.Bc4 Nf6 8.O-O e6 9.Re1 Be7 10.Ne5 Nbd7 [see diagram above]

Stockfish decides Nxf7 is best in less than 3 seconds.

Code: Select all

info depth 21 seldepth 27 multipv 1 score cp 0 nodes 8573400 nps 3081739 hashfull 1 tbhits 0 time 2782 pv e5f7 e8f7 e1e6 d7b6 e6f6 f7f6 b1b5 c6b5 d1f3 f6e5 f3g3 e5f5 g3f3 f5e5
info depth 22 seldepth 27 multipv 1 score cp 0 nodes 10265807 nps 3508478 hashfull 2 tbhits 0 time 2926 pv e5f7 e8f7 e1e6 d7b6 e6f6 f7f6 b1b5 c6b5 d1f3 f6e5 f3g3 e5f5 g3f3 f5e5

[MikeGL]

Thanks for that line at depth 22. Stockfish does indeed considers Nxf7 as best. But critter 32bit is still stuck at Nxd7.

Another example is Deep Blue - Kasparov 1997
Kasparov complained and accused the IBM team for allegedly manipulating Deep Blue into playing 8.Nxe6 which complicates the position. Kas claimed no engine will play this dubious move.
Some modern engines prefer 8.Ne4 instead of the complicated 8.Nxe6
Ok Nxe6 is considered as best by Stockfish, but other modern ones considers Ne4 as best.
8.Nxe6 is surely best against humans because this will stop the castling of black.

[d]r1bqkb1r/pp1n1pp1/2p1pn1p/6N1/3P4/3B1N2/PPP2PPP/R1BQK2R w KQkq - 0 8

[Diagram] after 7... h6 of Kasparov where in Deep Blue complicates with 8.Nxe6


[pgn]
[Event "IBM Man-Machine, New York USA"]
[Site "06"]
[Date "1997.??.??"]
[EventDate "?"]
[Round "?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Deep Blue (Computer)"]
[Black "Garry Kasparov"]
[ECO "B17"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[PlyCount "37"]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 dxe4 4.Nxe4 Nd7 5.Ng5 Ngf6 6.Bd3 e6
7.N1f3 h6 8.Nxe6 Qe7 9.O-O fxe6 10.Bg6+ Kd8 11.Bf4 b5 12.a4
Bb7 13.Re1 Nd5 14.Bg3 Kc8 15.axb5 cxb5 16.Qd3 Bc6 17.Bf5 exf5
18.Rxe7 Bxe7 19.c4 1-0
[/pgn]

[reflectionofpower]

Wouldn't it be nice if there's a 'tick box' or engine feature for anti-human? I remember Rebel program of Schröder has this feature against Vishy Anand. Engine prefers weaker move but messy (ie complex, complicated) positions which will put humans into a disadvantage.

Take for instance the below position:

[d]r1b1k2r/pp1nbppp/2p1pn2/q3N3/2B5/2N5/P1PP1PPP/1RBQR1K1 w kq - 4 11

Nxd7 is probably best for some engines, but Nxf7 is a bit inferior but will be messy and difficult for humans.

The above position arised after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 Qxb4 5.Rb1 Qa5 6.Nf3 c6 7.Bc4 Nf6 8.O-O e6 9.Re1 Be7 10.Ne5 Nbd7 [see diagram above]

I forgot about that feature in Rebel. It was in Chess Tiger as Anti Human Play.

[MikeGL]

Wouldn't it be nice if there's a 'tick box' or engine feature for anti-human? I remember Rebel program of Schröder has this feature against Vishy Anand. Engine prefers weaker move but messy (ie complex, complicated) positions which will put humans into a disadvantage.

Take for instance the below position:

[d]r1b1k2r/pp1nbppp/2p1pn2/q3N3/2B5/2N5/P1PP1PPP/1RBQR1K1 w kq - 4 11

Nxd7 is probably best for some engines, but Nxf7 is a bit inferior but will be messy and difficult for humans.

The above position arised after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 Qxb4 5.Rb1 Qa5 6.Nf3 c6 7.Bc4 Nf6 8.O-O e6 9.Re1 Be7 10.Ne5 Nbd7 [see diagram above]

I forgot about that feature in Rebel. It was in Chess Tiger as Anti Human Play.

It was a feature in Rebel which was matched against Anand. The Rebel team called it 'Anti-GM' feature, a lot weaker version for Eng-Eng matches, but according to Schröder it will add roughly 50 elo against Humans.

My example above is not quite clear, here's an actual game of stockfish where Nxf7 will be stronger against humans but not against engines.
[d]r1bqkb1r/pp3pp1/1np1pn1p/6N1/3P4/1B6/PPP1QPPP/R1B1K1NR w KQkq - 0 9

The difference of Nxf7 will be a couple of centi-pawns (but not a whole pawn), compared to the best move.

[carldaman]

I forgot about that feature in Rebel. It was in Chess Tiger as Anti Human Play.

There is also Thinker 5.4D and its Active personality that was meant to be used only against humans.

Regards,
CL

[TShackel]

Wouldn't it be nice if there's a 'tick box' or engine feature for anti-human? I remember Rebel program of Schröder has this feature against Vishy Anand. Engine prefers weaker move but messy (ie complex, complicated) positions which will put humans into a disadvantage.

Take for instance the below position:

[d]r1b1k2r/pp1nbppp/2p1pn2/q3N3/2B5/2N5/P1PP1PPP/1RBQR1K1 w kq - 4 11

Nxd7 is probably best for some engines, but Nxf7 is a bit inferior but will be messy and difficult for humans.

The above position arised after 1.e4 d5 2.exd5 Qxd5 3.Nc3 Qa5 4.b4 Qxb4 5.Rb1 Qa5 6.Nf3 c6 7.Bc4 Nf6 8.O-O e6 9.Re1 Be7 10.Ne5 Nbd7 [see diagram above]

Chess Tiger and Gambit Tiger had a pretty good anti-human function. It basically tried to open up the position at all costs. For instance if tiger were playing against other computers it would be willing to close the white e4, d4 and black d5 and e6 pawn structure position with e4-e5. But if it were playing anti-human it would never play e4-e5 even though it may be the best move, but would rather automatically play exd5 opening files and diagonals. This makes sense against humans as computers will always have the edge in open positions. But it may not play the best move when closing the position for a spacae advantage is the best move.

Sincerely,

Tim.

[jhellis3]

Creating an anti-human eval should be pretty easy, just add a small incentive for removing the first 6 pawns from the game.

[lucasart]

Creating an anti-human eval should be pretty easy, just add a small incentive for removing the first 6 pawns from the game.

I'd say:
* asymmetric material evaluation, to penalize exchanges (reward them from the opponent's pov).
* asymmetric pawn evaluation: penalize pawn rams (reward them from the opponent's pov).
* obviously use contempt (penalize draw by chess rules, reward them for the opponent).

should be more than enough...

[MikeGL]

True, because a position with many pieces and less pawns is complex for
humans. But the engine might sac all of its minor pieces for a bunch of
pawns.


Probably including a counter for recaptures (or exchanges) on each variation
would do, plus a bonus for stopping the human for castling. Would be slower for engines to count their recaptures and evaluating the "sharpness" of the position.

Anti-GM from the Rebel Page. Would be effective against Grand-Father
http://www.rebel.nl/antigmex.htm