Interesting position from Facebook

[bob]

I considered .. Ne5 but it is hard to see that the attack is worth a whole piece. My second choice was actually .. Nb8, but that is not forcing enough: White plays Ne2 and is better. Btw. this is from Timman-Shirov, Wijk aan Zee 1999: a very complex and interesting game.

--Jon

It's not a sacrifice. c4 then picks up the white bishop in return. It is simple enough that crafty spots it instantly...

[Norm Pollock]

Neither side had castling rights, which is very strange based on the positioning. I think O-O would have been a decent option for Black if it had castling rights on the king side.

[Dann Corbit]

Neither side had castling rights, which is very strange based on the positioning. I think O-O would have been a decent option for Black if it had castling rights on the king side.

Likely castling rights present. I just formed the EPD from an image I saw on facebook.

[jdart]

This is the ChessBase version (without annotations):

[Event "Hoogovens"]
[Site "Wijk aan Zee"]
[Date "1999.01.20"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Timman, Jan H"]
[Black "Shirov, Alexei"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D85"]
[WhiteElo "2649"]
[BlackElo "2726"]
[PlyCount "79"]
[EventDate "1999.01.16"]
[EventType "schev"]
[EventRounds "2"]
[EventCountry "NED"]
[Source "ChessBase"]
[SourceDate "1999.04.01"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 d5 4. cxd5 Nxd5 5. e4 Nxc3 6. bxc3 Bg7 7. Be3 c5 8.
Qd2 Qa5 9. Rb1 b6 10. Bb5+ Bd7 11. Be2 Bc6 12. Bd3 Nd7 13. h4 Rd8 14. h5 Ne5
15. dxe5 c4 16. Bd4 cxd3 17. Nf3 Bxe4 18. h6 Bf8 19. Ng5 Bxg2 20. Rh2 Qd5 21.
Qxd3 f6 22. Rb5 Qc6 23. exf6 exf6 24. f3 fxg5 25. Rxg2 Bxh6 26. Qe2+ Kf7 27.
Bxh8 Rxh8 28. Qd3 Re8+ 29. Re2 Rxe2+ 30. Kxe2 Qe6+ 31. Kd1 Qxa2 32. Qd7+ Kg8
33. Rd5 Qb3+ 34. Ke2 Qc4+ 35. Kf2 Bf8 36. Qe6+ Kh8 37. Qf6+ Kg8 38. Qe6+ Kh8
39. Qe5+ Kg8 40. Qe6+ 1/2-1/2

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

[d]3rk2r/p2nppbp/1pb3p1/q1p4P/3PP3/2PBB3/P2Q1PP1/1R2K1NR b - -
Spoiler below, what would you play?
Best move is Ne5, but if we are honest, I think we will all admit that we would play f5.

Man, why do you say that we will al play f5?

I will play e5.

[d]3rk2r/p2n1pbp/1pb3p1/q1p1p2P/3PP3/2PBB3/P2Q1PP1/1R2K1NR w - e6 0 2

This is the first move that comes to my mind and seemingly the best, no matter what SF says.

e5 was the first move that came to my mind and I never thought of any second move. Reason: Ne5 is too complicated for me, while f5 is even fuzzier.

However, facts are as follows:

- after Ne5 SF starts with 80cps advantage for black and ends with very same 80cps advantage 20 moves on - obvious draw

- after f5 SF starts with 30cps black advantage and ends soon with 0.0 score - easy draw

- after e5 Sf starts with 130cps white advantage, and 20 moves on the white edge is already below 50cps, descending all the time - obvious draw

So that all 3 moves are draws, but SF considers them differently.

Still, based on how steeply the 130cps white advantage decreases, I would say e5 is the best move. Besides that, it spares you a lot of calculations.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Check again carefully the e5 line.

SF says 130cps white advantage at first, but in the very next plies its score drops to half of that, and then further. What is certain is that SF evaluates the position arising after e5 very wrong - with huge white edge instead of 0.0.

I say e5 is the best move.

[kgburcham]

Check again carefully the e5 line.

SF says 130cps white advantage at first, but in the very next plies its score drops to half of that, and then further. What is certain is that SF evaluates the position arising after e5 very wrong - with huge white edge instead of 0.0.

I say e5 is the best move.

I will take the challenge if you will play e5.
kgburcham

[zullil]

I will play e5.

[d]3rk2r/p2n1pbp/1pb3p1/q1p1p2P/3PP3/2PBB3/P2Q1PP1/1R2K1NR w - e6 0 2

For those following with engines, I think the FEN should be
[d]3rk2r/p2n1pbp/1pb3p1/q1p1p2P/3PP3/2PBB3/P2Q1PP1/1R2K1NR w Kk e6 0 2

The OP believes both sides may still castle kingside.

[Dann Corbit]

I will play e5.

[d]3rk2r/p2n1pbp/1pb3p1/q1p1p2P/3PP3/2PBB3/P2Q1PP1/1R2K1NR w - e6 0 2

For those following with engines, I think the FEN should be
[d]3rk2r/p2n1pbp/1pb3p1/q1p1p2P/3PP3/2PBB3/P2Q1PP1/1R2K1NR w Kk e6 0 2

The OP believes both sides may still castle kingside.

Here is the correct position from the actual game posted by J. Dart:
3rk2r/p2nppbp/1pb3p1/q1p4P/3PP3/2PBB3/P2Q1PP1/1R2K1NR b Kk - fmvn 14; hmvc 0; pm Ne5;

I do not think that the position you posted above is from the game. Is it a follow-on?


Note that it is BLACK to move.

[Dann Corbit]

Never mind. I see that it is after Lyudmil's pawn push.