Wei Yi's Immortal Game

[syzygy]

(I could well believe Bruzon looked at ALL this, but did not see the ramifications after 22....Nf6, 23.Qe6).

He did not play 22...Nf6, so he most likely did see the ramifications (or he believed he might still be OK after 22...Kxf7).

[S.Taylor]

(I could well believe Bruzon looked at ALL this, but did not see the ramifications after 22....Nf6, 23.Qe6).

He did not play 22...Nf6, so he most likely did see the ramifications (or he believed he might still be OK after 22...Kxf7).

I mean, before playing 21....Nxd5.
Before playing 22...Kxf7, he already DID see the ramifications of 23.Qe6.


(Still.... 23.Qe6 is not "brilliant" chess anymore, but it's just a slog that will turn out in whites favor).

[syzygy]

(I could well believe Bruzon looked at ALL this, but did not see the ramifications after 22....Nf6, 23.Qe6).

He did not play 22...Nf6, so he most likely did see the ramifications (or he believed he might still be OK after 22...Kxf7).

I mean, before playing 21....Nxd5.
Before playing 22...Kxf7, he already DID see the ramifications of 23.Qe6.

Yes, but that speculation from your side does not seem very convincing to me.

I don't know if black seriously considered Rxf7. If he did, black must certainly have looked carefully at Kxf7. If black then realised Kxf7 would likely lose but that Nf6 deserves a look as well, then black certainly would have looked carefully at Nf6.

I would be surprised if black, before playing Nxd5, knew that Rxf7 Kxf7 would lose. Either he did not seriously consider Rxf7, or he thought Rxf7 Kxf7 offered black an escape. My guess is he missed Be4+. All other moves for white seem to lose there.

(Still.... 23.Qe6 is not "brilliant" chess anymore, but it's just a slog that will turn out in whites favor).

Qe6 wins immediately.

[Uri Blass]

AND that leaving the rook uncaptured is mate next move if not defended.
BUT, it might have been hard to see that by returning the Knight by Nf6, it is not good enough after white plays Qe6.

(I could well believe Bruzon looked at ALL this, but did not see the ramifications after 22....Nf6, 23.Qe6).

I think that 22...Nf6 23.Qe6 is the easier line to calculate relative to calculating what happens after 22...Kxf7

My guess is that black probably saw that maybe 22...Kxf7 is losing even before 21...Nxd5 but had no good alternative and it is better to go to a line that maybe you lose but you are not sure about relative to going to a line that clearly gives a big advantage for the opponent.

[S.Taylor]

(I could well believe Bruzon looked at ALL this, but did not see the ramifications after 22....Nf6, 23.Qe6).

He did not play 22...Nf6, so he most likely did see the ramifications (or he believed he might still be OK after 22...Kxf7).

I mean, before playing 21....Nxd5.
Before playing 22...Kxf7, he already DID see the ramifications of 23.Qe6.

Yes, but that speculation from your side does not seem very convincing to me.

I don't know if black seriously considered Rxf7. If he did, black must certainly have looked carefully at Kxf7. If black then realised Kxf7 would likely lose but that Nf6 deserves a look as well, then black certainly would have looked carefully at Nf6.

I would be surprised if black, before playing Nxd5, knew that Rxf7 Kxf7 would lose. Either he did not seriously consider Rxf7, or he thought Rxf7 Kxf7 offered black an escape. My guess is he missed Be4+. All other moves for white seem to lose there.

OK, this makes sense too.
I actually thought that maybe he did not consider Rxf7 seriously after thinking that Nf3 offers an escape.

Besides Be4+ all other moves lose? wow! this is what it says on chessbomb evaluation lines.

Now me!
I have never beaten a GM. However i have never played a GM either (except in simul).

Not that i would expect to have ever beaten a GM, but if I would have that position right before Rxf7, I'm SURE I would have played just that, and it would be my easiest win, as it is just up my street.

I might not have seen Be4+ before playing Rxf7, but I probably would have played that too, when i got there.

This doesn't mean I'm that great. But it means that i would have beaten a GM if all i had to do was to play from before Rxf7 in that game.

It would be considered a brilliancy too (in the chess world)! It might have been fulfilment of ONE of my life long dreams. I wouldn't need anything more from chess after that. (if Bruzon is a GM, that is).

[bob]

so you are saying if the computer plays this out, white will still win if black plays best moves.

Known problem with computers. 2 fold repetition scores as drawn, but the game is still perfectly winnable so long as a 3-fold repetition does not happen otb. Computers make the assumption that if it can be repeated twice, it can be repeated 3 times. And in 99.9% of the cases that is correct. But the key word is "can be repeated 3x". One side always has the option to vary and not accept the repetition.

[syzygy]

Besides Be4+ all other moves lose? wow! this is what it says on chessbomb evaluation lines.

Without Be4+ the king escapes safely to c6 and black is ahead in material. Stockfish evaluates Bg6 (Kc6 Bxe8) as the 2nd best move for white at -3.89.

I might not have seen Be4+ before playing Rxf7, but I probably would have played that too, when i got there.

Who knows, but then you probably would not have known how to continue after Kxe4. Wei Yi missed c4 (mate in 9), but found Qf7 which also wins. But then he played Bd2+ and Be3 instead of immediately going for Qb3. In the end he made no mistakes, but that does not mean he did not have to work hard for it.

This doesn't mean I'm that great. But it means that i would have beaten a GM if all i had to do was to play from before Rxf7 in that game.

Dream on...

[S.Taylor]

Well, 26.Bxb6+ at worsed, is enough to justify Be4+, if K takes B.

I can see now that Wei had to work hard. But it could be done in stages, plus the acceptance of some risk.

[S.Taylor]

OK, so chess bomb shows 26.Bb6 too and shows it is as not good enough.

Dream on? ok, There are a lot of things to dream for, BEFORE sitting down and playing a GM and getting into a position from which a beautiful winning combination comes your way!

[ernest]

From Black's point of view, the comments went like "21... Nxd5?! Losing on the spot, but how could Bruzon know?"

Well, my Stockfish 6 does not see any win if 21...Bxd5 is played, instead of 21...Nxd5?
How is your analysis?