Having a problem with Arena 3.5

[Norm Pollock]

I contacted them but I do not know how long and if they will get back to me.

The problem involves Engine/Tournament/Options/Starting Position/Load from PGN/EPD file, load SEQUENTIALLY

When I use this option, whether with a PGN or EPD testsuite, only the first position is loaded and stays loaded game after game. The next positions in the PGN or EPD testsuite are not accessed.

Btw, the "choose Randomly" option works fine.

I wanted to use the "sequential" option in engine testing but I cannot get it to work.

Anyone know what I might be doing incorrectly?

[Werner]

Hi Norm,
just tested here:
Round robin, carousel, normal chess,
Starting load pgn sequ.
repeat startposition

all worked ok - on 3rd game second position is loaded here.

Pse check another pgn suite.

[Norm Pollock]

Thanks for the replies.

I think I understand how it works now. My current understanding is as follows (for round-robin with colors reversed).

For 2 engines, 4 rounds, the selection of positions is # 1,1,2,2,3,3,4,4

For 3 engines, 4 rounds, the selection of positions is # 1,1,1,1,1,1,2,2,2,2,2,2,3,3,3,3,3,3,4,4,4,4,4,4

It plays each round with the same position, and also the same position for the next round if the colors are reversed. With 2 engines, it takes 1 game to do a round. With 3 engines, it takes 3 games to do a round.

I was playing 8 engines round-robin with colors reversed. That would take 28 games to do a round, and with colors reversed for the next round, the total will be 56 games with the same position. That is why I thought that Arena was stuck.

So a sequential position in a testsuite applies to all games in each round. A-B, C-D, E-F and G-H all play the same opening position in a round. So do A-C, B-D, etc.

On the other hand, random selection only applies to 2 engines at a time. If you have an 8 engine round-robin--engines A and B will play one random opening position, C and D will play another random opening position, E and F will play still another random opening position, and then G and H will play still another random opening position. And with colors reversed, in a later round after all 8 engines have played each other once, A and B will again play the same opening position they had played before but with colors reversed, and likewise for C and D, E and F, and G and H.

[Norm Pollock]

Hi Werner,

I have been testing the "load sequentially" option for both "pgn" and "epd" testsuites, in cases of 2 or more engines.

I have found that the information on the taskbar (bottom) of the Arena gui is correct for both types of testsuites. For example, in an 8 player round-robin with colors reversed, the opening position increments after 56 games.

When the increment takes place with a "pgn" testsuite, the corresponding new opening position appears on the board and the new moves appear in the "pgn" output.

HOWEVER, with regard to an "epd" testsuite, the OLD OPENING POSITION is retained even though the new opening position is indicated on the taskbar. Also, the old "fen" still appears in the "pgn" output. Definitely seems to be a serious bug if I am correct.

Besides noticing this abnormal behavior after 56 games in an 8 player round-robin with colors reversed, I also checked it with a simple 2 engine round-robin tournament with colors reversed using sequential loading with an "epd" file. After 2 games, the taskbar incremented to position 2, however on the board, and on the game's pgn, the first position of the "epd" file remained.

So in summary, the "pgn" sequential loading is good, but the "epd" sequential loading does not change the board position even though the next board position is indicated on the task bar at the bottom.

-Norm

[Norm Pollock]

As a go-around, I wrote my version of a tool that converts an epd (or fen) testsuite into a pgn testsuite. Note that the pgn testsuite does not contain any data other than the data in the FEN tag. There are no moves in the pgn testsuite so it is not suitable for building an opening book. However the pgn testsuite has all the essential data that is in the epd (or fen) testsuite used as input.

This pgn testsuite can be used as a substitute for an epd testsuite in Arena for the "load from pgn/epd file sequentially" option, which I believe does not work properly for epd files.

usage in a prompt command window:

epdConvert alpha.epd
epdConvert beta.fen

output: outEPD.pgn

direct link (up for 2 weeks)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/662 ... onvert.exe

Otherwise use the link to my chess page by clicking www below and download 40H-EPD tools.

[Ferdy]

Thanks for sharing this program.

[Roger Brown]

As a go-around, I wrote my version of a tool that converts an epd (or fen) testsuite into a pgn testsuite. Note that the pgn testsuite does not contain any data other than the data in the FEN tag. There are no moves in the pgn testsuite so it is not suitable for building an opening book. However the pgn testsuite has all the essential data that is in the epd (or fen) testsuite used as input.

This pgn testsuite can be used as a substitute for an epd testsuite in Arena for the "load from pgn/epd file sequentially" option, which I believe does not work properly for epd files.

usage in a prompt command window:

epdConvert alpha.epd
epdConvert beta.fen

output: outEPD.pgn

direct link (up for 2 weeks)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/662 ... onvert.exe

Otherwise use the link to my chess page by clicking www below and download 40H-EPD tools.

Hello Norm,

Essentially I fantasized about this software and here it is!

Thanks.

Does it show side to move when the pgn is loaded as in the epd?

Later.

[Norm Pollock]

As a go-around, I wrote my version of a tool that converts an epd (or fen) testsuite into a pgn testsuite. Note that the pgn testsuite does not contain any data other than the data in the FEN tag. There are no moves in the pgn testsuite so it is not suitable for building an opening book. However the pgn testsuite has all the essential data that is in the epd (or fen) testsuite used as input.

This pgn testsuite can be used as a substitute for an epd testsuite in Arena for the "load from pgn/epd file sequentially" option, which I believe does not work properly for epd files.

usage in a prompt command window:

epdConvert alpha.epd
epdConvert beta.fen

output: outEPD.pgn

direct link (up for 2 weeks)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/662 ... onvert.exe

Otherwise use the link to my chess page by clicking www below and download 40H-EPD tools.

Hello Norm,

Essentially I fantasized about this software and here it is!

Thanks.

Does it show side to move when the pgn is loaded as in the epd?

Later.

Hi Roger,

Yes.
FEN is like EPD but has 2 extra fields. In both 2nd field is w or b indicating the active side.

[Roger Brown]

Hi Roger,

Yes.
FEN is like EPD but has 2 extra fields. In both 2nd field is w or b indicating the active side.

Thanks Norm!

Later.

[Roger Brown]

As a go-around, I wrote my version of a tool that converts an epd (or fen) testsuite into a pgn testsuite. Note that the pgn testsuite does not contain any data other than the data in the FEN tag. There are no moves in the pgn testsuite so it is not suitable for building an opening book. However the pgn testsuite has all the essential data that is in the epd (or fen) testsuite used as input.

This pgn testsuite can be used as a substitute for an epd testsuite in Arena for the "load from pgn/epd file sequentially" option, which I believe does not work properly for epd files.

usage in a prompt command window:

epdConvert alpha.epd
epdConvert beta.fen

output: outEPD.pgn

direct link (up for 2 weeks)
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/662 ... onvert.exe

Otherwise use the link to my chess page by clicking www below and download 40H-EPD tools.

Hello Norm,

Works as advertised.

Now I can walk with mate in x test suites anywhere, on all devices, as pgn seems to be the accepted by all of my chess playing software and apps.

Later.