#40 according Ottó Bláthy

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Nordlandia
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#40 according Ottó Bláthy

Post by Nordlandia »

[d]5bnk/4pK1p/3pPp1p/3P1P1P/3P1p2/3P1p2/5P2/8 w - - 0 0

I can't see how white can convert this to victory.

Magyar Sakkvilág 1924

Found on: http://www.yacpdb.org/#search/ODg4ODg4O ... LzEvMA==/1
Arpad Rusz
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Re: #40 according Ottó Bláthy

Post by Arpad Rusz »

It is a helpmate and not a direct mate problem.
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Nordlandia
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Re: #40 according Ottó Bláthy

Post by Nordlandia »

Which side is mated?

Possible solution:

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "New game"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "0-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5bnk/4pK1p/3pPp1p/3P1P1P/3P1p2/3P1p2/5P2/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "80"]

1. Ke8 Kg7 2. Kd7 Kh8 3. Kc6 Kg7 4. Kb5 Kh8 5. Kc4 Kg7 6. Kc3 Kh8 7. Kd2 Kg7 8.
Ke1 Kh8 9. Kf1 Kg7 10. Kg1 Kh8 11. Kh2 Kg7 12. Kh3 Kh8 13. Kg4 Kg7 14. Kxf3 Kh8
15. Ke2 Kg7 16. Kd2 Kh8 17. Kc3 Kg7 18. Kc4 Kh8 19. Kb5 Kg7 20. Kc6 Kh8 21. Kd7
Kg7 22. Ke8 Kh8 23. Kxf8 f3 24. Ke8 Kg7 25. Kd7 Kf8 26. Kc6 Ke8 27. Kb5 Kd8 28.
Kc4 Kc7 29. Kc3 Kb6 30. Kd2 Kb5 31. Kc1 Kb4 32. Kd1 Kc3 33. Kc1 Kxd3 34. Kb2
Ke2 35. Kc1 Kxf2 36. Kd1 Kg3 37. Ke1 f2+ 38. Ke2 f1=Q+ 39. Ke3 Qf2+ 40. Ke4
Qe2# 0-1
[/pgn]
styx
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Re: #40 according Ottó Bláthy

Post by styx »

why should white allow being mated when a stalemate is possible?
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Ajedrecista
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Re: #40 according Ottó Bláthy.

Post by Ajedrecista »

Hello Andreas:
styx wrote:Why should white allow being mated when a stalemate is possible?
Helpmates are a sort of problems with their own targets. So are selfmates and both of them are supported by ChestUCI mate solver. Currently, Wikipedia talks about colours but either colour is suitable for these kind of problems.

It is like suicide chess or giveaway or whatever you name it. Why losing when you can win? As I said before: there are different targets. The 'lose is win' concept is not exclusive of chess and can be found in other games such as draughts/checkers (is it a draw in English/American variation?) and Russian draughts (poddavki, which is very popular; as well as the normal 'a win is a win' shashki).

Why do not have these versions? It is a rhetorical question. However, ChestUCI 5.2 found a solution in one second but in 38 moves:

Code: Select all

FEN: 5bnk/4pK1p/3pPp1p/3P1P1P/3P1p2/3P1p2/5P2/8 w - - 0 1 

ChestUCI_52:
FEN: 5bnk/4pK1p/3pPp1p/3P1P1P/3P1p2/3P1p2/5P2/8 w - -   (8+10)
Stellungs-Analyse:  C0/R0/K1/P1/X1   W:1/2
Suche nach HilfsMatt in 40 ...  (Hash=64MB)
  38	00:01	     675.814	1.139.652	-M38	Kf7e8
Suche abgeschlossen ...  (Zeit=1.13s)
HilfsMatt in 38 gefunden !  (1 Lösung in 00:01)
 38/38	00:01	   1.293.342	1.149.637	-M38	Kf7e8 Bf8g7 Ke8d7 Bg7f8 Kd7c6 Bf8g7 Kc6b5 Bg7f8 Kb5b4 Bf8g7 Kb4c3 Bg7f8 Kc3d2 Bf8g7 Kd2e1 Bg7f8 Ke1f1 Bf8g7 Kf1g1 Bg7f8 Kg1h2 Bf8g7 Kh2h3 Bg7f8 Kh3g4 Bf8g7 Kg4xf3 Bg7f8 Kf3e2 Bf8g7 Ke2d2 Bg7f8 Kd2c3 Bf8g7 Kc3c4 Bg7f8 Kc4b5 Bf8g7 Kb5c6 Bg7f8 Kc6d7 Bf8g7 Kd7e8 Bg7f8 Ke8xf8 f4f3 Kf8e8 Kh8g7 Ke8d8 Kg7f8 Kd8c7 Kf8e8 Kc7c6 Ke8d8 Kc6b5 Kd8c7 Kb5b4 Kc7b6 Kb4c3 Kb6b5 Kc3d2 Kb5b4 Kd2e3 Kb4c3 Ke3f4 Kc3xd3 Kf4g3 Kd3e2 Kg3h2 Ke2xf2 Kh2h1 Kf2g3 Kh1g1 f3f2+ Kg1h1 f2f1Q+
Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.