Crafty rating at TCEC

[hgm]

Note from moderation:

In response to operation of the 'report' button on a posting here, I want to point out that trolling per se is not forbidden by the charter, and neither is engine bashing.

Just one request: I am sure that virtually all readers can recognize trolling when they see it. So please refrain from pointing it out, especially after someone has already done it before you. Repeating the obvious is just boring.

So thank you for not throwing mud, and leaving it on the face of whoever wants to apply it to himself.

[APassionForCriminalJustic]

Both hardware and software have advanced tremendously in the past 20 years. Crafty has not sunk: on the contrary, the current Crafty is not even close to the same program it was in the 1980's: it is much stronger. But the top engines are stronger still.

--Jon

That is an interesting thought. If Crafty has been around for many more years than the other programs, why have they become some much stronger than Crafty? At this point, is it even worth testing Crafty any more due to the cosmic drop in strength compared to the other programs at the TCEC.

Sean

Crafty losing its greatness is no different than what happened to Shredder, HIARCS, Rybka, etc., they all had their day in the sun. That's really what it comes down to. Stockfish is true state of the art and Komodo is undoubtedly helped by Larry Kaufman. They will be untouchable for a long time I would suspect.

I think that Bob is a great guy who is always willing to answer my questions to him. He deserves respect - and so does his engine.

[cdani]

Both hardware and software have advanced tremendously in the past 20 years. Crafty has not sunk: on the contrary, the current Crafty is not even close to the same program it was in the 1980's: it is much stronger. But the top engines are stronger still.

--Jon

That is an interesting thought. If Crafty has been around for many more years than the other programs, why have they become some much stronger than Crafty? At this point, is it even worth testing Crafty any more due to the cosmic drop in strength compared to the other programs at the TCEC.

Sean

Crafty losing its greatness is no different than what happened to Shredder, HIARCS, Rybka, etc., they all had their day in the sun. That's really what it comes down to. Stockfish is true state of the art and Komodo is undoubtedly helped by Larry Kaufman. They will be untouchable for a long time I would suspect.

I think that Bob is a great guy who is always willing to answer my questions to him. He deserves respect - and so does his engine.

+1
Not all is competition. And only competition separates. And the goal of the forum is not separate, but share, add together.

[Rochester]

He support the Trump. But for the strong chess need the good thinking.

[Sean Evans]

He support the Trump. But for the strong chess need the good thinking.

To support Trump, someone would have to be out of their mind!

I agree with you that good thinking is needed. Crafty has been worked on since the old Cray Blitz days in the 1970's by Bob and yet Crafty cannot beat an original program called Andscacs written only a couple of years ago by a young programmer named, Daniel José Queraltó. This certainly reflects the bad shape that Crafty is in now.

I would suggest that we send a letter to the TCEC and signed by all of us to stop testing Crafty as it is simply to weak compared to most chess programs in 2016.

Does someone want to make the first draft of the letter and post it here?

Perhaps, we should consider one for Hiarcs too, for the same reasons.

On a side note Stockfish takes commanding lead at the Top Chess Engine Championship

Cordially,

Sean

[hgm]

How about this, then?

Dear TCEC organizers,

we are very dissatisfied with the duration of your tournament. As some rounds take as many as 50 games, it is a virtual certainty engines that are more than 40 Elo weaker than the strongest will not win the tourney. So basically you are wasting our time by making us watch these suckers play. They are nothing but cannon fodder, and we have better things to do. The current TCEC is more like a '"Trash Chess Engine Competition"!

We therefore insist you exclude of any engine that is not within 40 Elo of the number one on the CCRL 4CPU rating list from entering the tourney.

For the computer-chess community:
Sean Evens,
H.G.Muller,
....
(300 signatures)

[gerold]

If all the clones,forgeries, reproductions,and Derivalives were removed maybe i would sign your letter.

Crafty,Hiarcs,Shredder are original engines, they are the ones i support.

Best,
Gerold.

[bob]

He support the Trump. But for the strong chess need the good thinking.

To support Trump, someone would have to be out of their mind!

I agree with you that good thinking is needed. Crafty has been worked on since the old Cray Blitz days in the 1970's by Bob and yet Crafty cannot beat an original program called Andscacs written only a couple of years ago by a young programmer named, Daniel José Queraltó. This certainly reflects the bad shape that Crafty is in now.

I would suggest that we send a letter to the TCEC and signed by all of us to stop testing Crafty as it is simply to weak compared to most chess programs in 2016.

Does someone want to make the first draft of the letter and post it here?

Perhaps, we should consider one for Hiarcs too, for the same reasons.

On a side note Stockfish takes commanding lead at the Top Chess Engine Championship

Cordially,

Sean

I really don't care about your trolling, but you could at least get facts correct.

Cray Blitz was not a "1970's" program. It didn't exist until 1981, and it played competitively through the last ACM computer chess tournament in 1994. Crafty came along in early 1995.

For the rest of your post, nobody cares about your opinion.

And if you continue the nonsense, further complaints are going to create consequences for you.

[Sean Evans]

He support the Trump. But for the strong chess need the good thinking.

To support Trump, someone would have to be out of their mind!

I agree with you that good thinking is needed. Crafty has been worked on since the old Cray Blitz days in the 1970's by Bob and yet Crafty cannot beat an original program called Andscacs written only a couple of years ago by a young programmer named, Daniel José Queraltó. This certainly reflects the bad shape that Crafty is in now.

I would suggest that we send a letter to the TCEC and signed by all of us to stop testing Crafty as it is simply to weak compared to most chess programs in 2016.

Does someone want to make the first draft of the letter and post it here?

Perhaps, we should consider one for Hiarcs too, for the same reasons.

On a side note Stockfish takes commanding lead at the Top Chess Engine Championship

Cordially,

Sean

I really don't care about your trolling, but you could at least get facts correct.

Cray Blitz was not a "1970's" program. It didn't exist until 1981, and it played competitively through the last ACM computer chess tournament in 1994. Crafty came along in early 1995.

For the rest of your post, nobody cares about your opinion.

And if you continue the nonsense, further complaints are going to create consequences for you.

Point of fact: Was not Cray Blitz the early version of Crafty? Why do you feel your former world champion program has fallen, so far behind other relatively new programs? Going from first-place to forty-sixth place is quite a fall!

The same question for Hiarcs, once a world champion program now relegated to twenty-fourth place. Yet, Hiarcs feels compelled to ask prices from: £37.50 / €45 / $49 for their PC product.

If I can download the current TCEC leader, Stockfish for free or acquire Komodo for $60, something is wrong with the computer chess community.

Cordially,

Sean

[Sean Evans]

How about this, then?

Dear TCEC organizers,

we are very dissatisfied with the duration of your tournament. As some rounds take as many as 50 games, it is a virtual certainty engines that are more than 40 Elo weaker than the strongest will not win the tourney. So basically you are wasting our time by making us watch these suckers play. They are nothing but cannon fodder, and we have better things to do. The current TCEC is more like a '"Trash Chess Engine Competition"!

We therefore insist you exclude of any engine that is not within 40 Elo of the number one on the CCRL 4CPU rating list from entering the tourney.

For the computer-chess community:
Sean Evens,
H.G.Muller,
....
(300 signatures)

Yes, I think you are on the right track here! Narrow the TCEC down to the top ten programs and let them battle it out. Why include programs like Crafty that should have been put out to pasture years ago!

On a side note, here in an interesting article that was recently published.

Thank you for your input.

Sean