2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

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Tdunbug
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Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by Tdunbug »

I wonder what SF has contributed as far as innovative ideas to the chess engine! Have has it contributed Numa awareness, TT, eval function tuning, presistant hash, large page file support, Lazy SMP, or Multi core threading.

Correct me if I am wrong these are all ideas that SF benefited and improved on but did not create. So to say that sharing/stealing of SF ideas and incorporating them into another chess engine is wrong IMHO. In fact a careful look at history would reveal that it is SF doing the catching up with rivals.
Jesse Gersenson
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Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by Jesse Gersenson »

Modern Times wrote: Houdini 1.5 is ancient history anyway, there has been 2, 3 4 and now an unreleased 5 after that. No way of knowing what if anything remains from 1.5...
Apply the same logic to a case of identity theft, where the thief continues living with your identity and after a few years you say, "Well, he took my wife, house and money but that is ancient history anyway; he's rebuilt much of the house, reinvested the money and had a few of his own kids with the wife."
Modern Times
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Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by Modern Times »

Tdunbug wrote:I wonder what SF has contributed as far as innovative ideas to the chess engine! Have has it contributed Numa awareness, TT, eval function tuning, presistant hash, large page file support, Lazy SMP, or Multi core threading.

Correct me if I am wrong these are all ideas that SF benefited and improved on but did not create. So to say that sharing/stealing of SF ideas and incorporating them into another chess engine is wrong IMHO. In fact a careful look at history would reveal that it is SF doing the catching up with rivals.
There are dozens of open source engines today, and the theory and techniques of how to write a chess engine are well established, so there are no really "original" engines anymore.
Modern Times
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Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by Modern Times »

Jesse Gersenson wrote:
Modern Times wrote: Houdini 1.5 is ancient history anyway, there has been 2, 3 4 and now an unreleased 5 after that. No way of knowing what if anything remains from 1.5...
Apply the same logic to a case of identity theft, where the thief continues living with your identity and after a few years you say, "Well, he took my wife, house and money but that is ancient history anyway; he's rebuilt much of the house, reinvested the money and had a few of his own kids with the wife."
Totally different situation, not an analogy at all.
rabbits23
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Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by rabbits23 »

Tim: I have the Komodo 10 computer chess program and am very impressed by it .
I particularly like the way it marshalls its forces creatively and and how it applies
unremitting pressure on its opponents weaknesses when it finds them.
I have presented numerous puzzles for it to work on and it has been fairly
successful with most.I don't have Stockfish or other engines to test it against
but in my opinion Komodo10 is one formidable chess opponent.
Regards Allan
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Guenther
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Full name: Guenther Simon

Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by Guenther »

Modern Times wrote:
Tdunbug wrote:I wonder what SF has contributed as far as innovative ideas to the chess engine! Have has it contributed Numa awareness, TT, eval function tuning, presistant hash, large page file support, Lazy SMP, or Multi core threading.

Correct me if I am wrong these are all ideas that SF benefited and improved on but did not create. So to say that sharing/stealing of SF ideas and incorporating them into another chess engine is wrong IMHO. In fact a careful look at history would reveal that it is SF doing the catching up with rivals.
There are dozens of open source engines today, and the theory and techniques of how to write a chess engine are well established, so there are no really "original" engines anymore.
The sudden twist to 'originality' has not much to do with what we talk about here.
(And on a side note, even then you still have to implement all on your own and it must fit to your framework,
if you don't want to be either a stupid cloner or a lazy thief. Non-programmers really should stay away from that theme)

I really wonder, why the bad habit of regularly trying to fake or downplay history regarding cloning and illegal derivating never goes away here.
This only leads to the (not so) funny situation that (some) people after a few years suddenly start again to think
even long time proven clones were inncocent toys and newcomers (and others with bad memory) get a completely wrong picture.

This is a kind of brainwashing actually...
Lyudmil Tsvetkov
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Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by Lyudmil Tsvetkov »

lkaufman wrote:
Dirt wrote:
lkaufman wrote:People using decompilers reported finding a perfect match between the first Houdini and one of the Ippos, except for variable names. Unless they were all lying, it was plagiarism. No one has disputed their findings to my knowledge.
Plagiarism is not illegal. As Ippolit is distributed as public domain he had no need to acknowledge it. Now, if Ippolit was illegally marked as public domain, Robert could have a problem if he is admits to have started with that code if someone appears to claim the copyright. He could lose the rights to all his hard work. It's much more sensible to just keep quiet.
I never said it was illegal, just that his claim to being the original author was a lie (unless, as Ray speculated, he actually wrote Ippolit, but there is zero evidence to support this, although "Roberto Pescatori" does share the same first name with Robert Houdart :) I realize that lying is no longer a disqualification for becoming President of the United States, but it remains a reason not to trust anything the person in question might say.
Man, you are happy you do not live in Bulgaria, where they are lying much much more, or Russia, where they lie even more than in Bulgaria.

But I guess this is part of global lying...
Modern Times
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Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by Modern Times »

In the case of attitudes towards Russia, I'd say more like global hypocrisy and double-standards.
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reflectionofpower
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Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by reflectionofpower »

I remember the days of MChess Pro, Chess Genius, Gideon Pro/Rebel & Fritz and at that time they going for over $100. $119.95 seems to stick in my mind for some reason. All had distinctly different playing styles and utilized different methods and I bought everyone them faithfully :.)

Now we have so many engines, some unique, some similar and much cheaper and many levels stronger than their predecessors. Everyone has an opinion on certain matters about chess engines but the most important thing I think is to appreciate how much chess software has grown and how much of it we have that it is good just to sit down and meditate on where we are in the stream of time. A spectrum of time where we have so much to choose from and a time when we were there when chess software has finally overtaken humanity much to the chagrin of some people.
"Without change, something sleeps inside us, and seldom awakens. The sleeper must awaken." (Dune - 1984)

Lonnie
TShackel
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Re: 2 Komodo Games: Larry's and Mark's opinions welcome

Post by TShackel »

rabbits23 wrote:Tim: I have the Komodo 10 computer chess program and am very impressed by it .
I particularly like the way it marshalls its forces creatively and and how it applies
unremitting pressure on its opponents weaknesses when it finds them.
I have presented numerous puzzles for it to work on and it has been fairly
successful with most.I don't have Stockfish or other engines to test it against
but in my opinion Komodo10 is one formidable chess opponent.
Regards Allan
Thanks Allan for your opinion. I agree.

Tim.