What to play against 1. d4 ?

[tpoppins]

Btw., you certainly know that both Kasparov and Fischer occasionally opened with 1.c4, but never with 1.d4.

Not on your planet perhaps, Lyudmil.





According to Megabase 2016, Kasparov opened with 1.d4 in 326 games against 2500+-rated opponents.

As usual, your ignorance is only matched by the audacity of your claims. Please carry on, watching you dig yourself in deeper and deeper is quite an entertainment sometimes.

[whereagles]

Lyudmil may be right that 1. c4 is the best move. I find that strange, but it may be so.

What I clearly don't believe is that it's a forced win

[Henk]

Didn't know Kings Indian was a bad reply to 1.c4

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Btw., you certainly know that both Kasparov and Fischer occasionally opened with 1.c4, but never with 1.d4.

Not on your planet perhaps, Lyudmil.





According to Megabase 2016, Kasparov opened with 1.d4 in 326 games against 2500+-rated opponents.

As usual, your ignorance is only matched by the audacity of your claims. Please carry on, watching you dig yourself in deeper and deeper is quite an entertainment sometimes.

Why did not you post the whole image, also for the black side?
Has not Kasparov answered in 2/3 of the games with black on e4 with c5?
Did you check if the database contains all Kasparov games, or simply they spread it evenly, to cover all openings? (certainly Kasparov did not play only 600 games)
Did you check from what periods do the e4 and d4 Kasparov games date?

Even taking your database, do not e4 games outnumber d4 games? (yes, it is so). Do not c4+e4 games largely outnumber d4 games? (yes, it is so)

Do not you really understand the meaning of 'never' in my sentence? It means 'almost never', 'preferring not to play', a player who has played several thousand games certainly sometimes opened with d4 too.

Please tell me what the opinion of Kasparov regarding the best first move is?

And here is stats for Fischer, why did not you also post that?



With the White pieces:
Sicilian (183)
B90 B32 B88 B44 B57
Ruy Lopez (119)
C92 C69 C95 C97 C98
Ruy Lopez, Closed (75)
C92 C95 C97 C98 C89
French Defense (65)
C19 C11 C18 C16 C15
Caro-Kann (53)
B10 B11 B18 B14 B17
French Winawer (40)
C19 C18 C16 C15 C17


With the Black pieces:
Sicilian (119)
B92 B99 B97 B90 B93
King's Indian (116)
E80 E62 E97 E60 E67
Sicilian Najdorf (77)
B92 B99 B97 B90 B93
Nimzo Indian (23)
E45 E40 E46 E43 E20
Grunfeld (20)
D79 D86 D80 D98 D82
English (18)
A16 A15 A10 A19

As you see, Fischer really never played other move than e4: only Sicilians, Ruy Lopez, French and Caro-Kann.

With black, on e4, only Sicilians.

Something to say? (I presume you will apologise for calling me ignorant, though I did not take offence)

Please tell what move Fischer considered as best white first move choice?

Did I ask enough questions, or you need more?

[corres]

[quote="Lyudmil Tsvetkov"]
Man, I do not defend myself, I defend 1.c4. Please, do not stay agasp, when in 20 years' time top engines suddenly say: best first move, 1.c4.
[/quote]

Sorry, but I will be astonished when one(!) engine say 1.c4 is the best move to start. Maybe this engine is not a well optimized one.

[quote="Lyudmil Tsvetkov"]
Btw., you certainly know that both Kasparov and Fischer occasionally opened with 1.c4, but never with 1.d4. Here you have your strong players and their opinions.
[/quote]

For your shake I looked through my databases and I have found 3120 white games of Kasparov from which 1123(!) start 1.d4 and 651 white games of Bobby Fischer from which 3 start 1.d4. The attitude of Fischer is well known.
Generally to state "Ex Katedra" 1.c4 being the best move is not well established thing. Naturally you can like 1.c4 to start.
Btw. If you really like 1.c4 I suppose you the games of World Champion Tigran Petrosian.

[Henk]

Capablanca played d4.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

The engines don't see that it is inverted Rossolimo:

1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 0-0 5.e4 Bxc3 6.bxc3 c6 7. Ne2 d5
1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Bb4 3.g3 Nf6 4.Bg2 0-0 5.e4 Bxc3 6.dxc3 d6 7. Ne2 Be6 8.b3 a5

The point is not playing Nc6, which just sits there and blocks black pawns.

sorry, Pawel. thanks for the feedback, but I am unable to analyse properly now.

just briefly. taking your first line, white captures bc3 of course: instead of 7.Ne2, much better is 7.Qb3, again controlling d5 square, followed by Ba3:

[d]rnbq1rk1/pp1p1ppp/2p2n2/4p3/2P1P3/1QP3P1/P2P1PBP/R1B1K1NR b KQ - 0 7

above position very much favours white, although engines give only small white advantage. White has pair of bishops, control over d5 square, and with time white advantage should only increase. Engines do not see anything decisive, but it is the same with the game line I posted, you need depth for eval to swing more in white's favour, maybe some 20-30 moves.

I do not know how you judge about above position: if you look at engine output, they need depth, if you judge by yourself, you migth also be wrong.

However, no one said above line should be followed: whote migth want to deviate on almost every ply, for example 3.Nd5, exchanging bishop for knigth with much better game, 3.e4, again with much better game, etc.

[Henk]

Looks like pawn on c6 is bad in that position. Why play c6.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

For your shake I looked through my databases and I have found 3120 white games of Kasparov from which 1123(!) start 1.d4

then 2 times as much start with e4 and c4.

and 651 white games of Bobby Fischer from which 3 start 1.d4. The attitude of Fischer is well known.

The results of Fischer are also well known.

[Lyudmil Tsvetkov]

Capablanca played d4.

that is why Capablanca lost to Alekhine, who in turn, even if on par with Botvinnik, was weaker than Fischer and Kasparov.

Really, looking at Capablanca games, they are so simple, nothing special, later players play much more refined chess, in general, with each new generation players get stronger and stronger, until Carlsen best players were Fischer and Kasparov, we will see what Carlsen will play when his repertoire matures in a decade or so.