Complex Puzzle

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:11 pm

Peter Martan: cooked in computer age

[pgn][Event "2.p L'Italia Scacchistica"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1971.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kuznetsov=AP"]
[Black "(+0347.57e8a8)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "krb1K1n1/1pBp1p2/P1p2p1n/P2P1p2/5Pp1/2N3P1/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "67"]
[EventDate "1971.??.??"]

{EG#01779} 1. a7 Kxa7 2. Bb6+ Ka6 3. d6 Ra8 4. Kf8 Rb8 5. Kg7 Ra8 6. Kh7 Rb8 7.
Kh8 Ra8 8. Kg7 Rb8 9. Kf8 Ra8 10. Ke8 Rb8 11. Kd8 Ra8 12. Kc7 c5 13. Kd8 Rb8
14. Ke8 Ra8 15. Kf8 Rb8 16. Kg7 Ra8 17. Kh7 Rb8 18. Kh8 Ra8 19. Kg7 Rb8 20. Kf8
Ra8 21. Ke8 Rb8 22. Kd8 Ra8 23. Kc7 c4 24. Kd8 Rb8 25. Ke8 Ra8 26. Kf8 Rb8 27.
Kg7 Ra8 28. Kh7 Rb8 29. Kh8 Ra8 30. Kg7 Rb8 31. Kf8 Ra8 32. Ke8 Rb8 33. Kd8 Ra8
34. Kc7 1-0

[/pgn]

Code: Select all

[Event "2.p L'Italia Scacchistica"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1971.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Kuznetsov=AP"]
[Black "(+0347.57e8a8)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "krb1K1n1/1pBp1p2/P1p2p1n/P2P1p2/5Pp1/2N3P1/8/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "67"]
[EventDate "1971.??.??"]

{EG#01779} 1. a7 Kxa7 2. Bb6+ Ka6 3. d6 Ra8 4. Kf8 Rb8 5. Kg7 Ra8 6. Kh7 Rb8 7.
Kh8 Ra8 8. Kg7 Rb8 9. Kf8 Ra8 10. Ke8 Rb8 11. Kd8 Ra8 12. Kc7 c5 13. Kd8 Rb8
14. Ke8 Ra8 15. Kf8 Rb8 16. Kg7 Ra8 17. Kh7 Rb8 18. Kh8 Ra8 19. Kg7 Rb8 20. Kf8
Ra8 21. Ke8 Rb8 22. Kd8 Ra8 23. Kc7 c4 24. Kd8 Rb8 25. Ke8 Ra8 26. Kf8 Rb8 27.
Kg7 Ra8 28. Kh7 Rb8 29. Kh8 Ra8 30. Kg7 Rb8 31. Kf8 Ra8 32. Ke8 Rb8 33. Kd8 Ra8
34. Kc7 1-0

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:35 am

EG 32, page 489, Paul Sadger

[d]2k1KBN1/4PQNP/2ppPRPP/5PRB/6P1/pp6/P7/8 w - - 0 0

peter · Post by **peter** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 7:18 am

Nordlandia wrote:Peter Martan: cooked in computer age

Sorry, Jon, didn't see till now you dedicated this one for me.
Why cooked?
We had it here before, hadn't we

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 9:37 am

peter wrote:
Nordlandia wrote:Peter Martan: cooked in computer age
Sorry, Jon, didn't see till now you dedicated this one for me.
Why cooked?
We had it here before, hadn't we

That partigular puzzle appears to be unsound, due to zugzwang.

[pgn][Event "Shakhmaty (Riga)#064 (c)"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1972.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dorogov=Y"]
[Black "(=0345.11f5a4)"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/4rN2/5n1B/5K2/k7/3pN3/bP6/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "23"]
[EventDate "1972.??.??"]

1. b3+ Bxb3 2. Ne5 d2 3. N3c4 Rxe5+ (3... Nd5 4. Bxd2 Bc2+ 5. Kg4 Be4 {
Interesting 8-man position.}) 4. Kxe5 Ng4+ 5. Ke4 d1=N 6. Nb6+ Kb5 7. Bg7 Kxb6
8. Kf3 Nh2+ 9. Kg2 Ng4 10. Kf3 Be6 11. Ke2 Bb3 12. Kf3 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[d]8/4r3/8/3nN3/k1N1b1K1/8/3B4/8 w - - 0 6

peter · Post by **peter** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:27 am

Nordlandia wrote:That partigular puzzle appears to be unsound, due to zugzwang.

[pgn][Event "Shakhmaty (Riga)#064 (c)"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1972.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dorogov=Y"]
[Black "(=0345.11f5a4)"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/4rN2/5n1B/5K2/k7/3pN3/bP6/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "23"]
[EventDate "1972.??.??"]

1. b3+ Bxb3 2. Ne5 d2 3. N3c4 Rxe5+ (3... Nd5 4. Bxd2 Bc2+ 5. Kg4 Be4 {
Interesting 8-man position.}) 4. Kxe5 Ng4+ 5. Ke4 d1=N 6. Nb6+ Kb5 7. Bg7 Kxb6
8. Kf3 Nh2+ 9. Kg2 Ng4 10. Kf3 Be6 11. Ke2 Bb3 12. Kf3 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[d]8/4r3/8/3nN3/k1N1b1K1/8/3B4/8 w - - 0 6

Are you sure, Jon?
Don't see any progress.
Here's komodo after some Forward- Backward with full Syzygys and switched off nullmove at the end of your line in braces:

[d]8/4r3/8/3nN3/k1N1b1K1/8/3B4/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Komodo 10.2 64-bit:

6.Nf3 Bb1 7.Kg3 Re8 8.Kf2 Rc8 9.Nd6 Rf8 10.Kg3 Rd8 11.Nc4 Rc8 12.Nfe5 Rg8+ 13.Kf2 Rf8+ 14.Kg3 Re8 15.Nf3 Ba2 16.Nfe5 Kb3 17.Kf2 Bb1 18.Na5+ Ka2 19.Nac4 Be4 20.Kg3 Bh1 21.Bg5 Nc3 22.Bd2 Kb3
=/+ (-0.41) Depth: 31 00:04:11 2826MN, tb=82918738

And after about 50 moves and exchange of two light figures trying to avoid this boundary, komodo gets 6mob-positions like this one again:

[d]8/4KN2/8/7r/2k1n3/4B3/8/8 w - - 0 55

Joerg Oster · Post by **Joerg Oster** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 11:49 am

Nordlandia wrote:EG 32, page 489, Paul Sadger

[d]2k1KBN1/4PQNP/2ppPRPP/5PRB/6P1/pp6/P7/8 w - - 0 0

Nice!

A modified Stockfish gives me win for Black, Mate in 13.
Is this correct?

Code: Select all

info depth 24 seldepth 41 multipv 1 score mate -13 nodes 472296906 nps 2773029 hashfull 1000 tbhits 0 time 170318 pv h7h8n b3b2 h6h7 b2b1n g8h6 b1d2 f7g8 d2c4 e8f7 c4e5 f7e8 d6d5 h8f7 e5c4 h7h8q c6c5 g8h7 d5d4 h8g8 d4d3 h7h8 d3d2 g8h7 d2d1q h6g8 d1a4

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 2:00 pm

Joerg Oster: yes it's mate in 13 for black.

peter · Post by **peter** » Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:48 pm

peter wrote:
Nordlandia wrote:That partigular puzzle appears to be unsound, due to zugzwang.

[pgn][Event "Shakhmaty (Riga)#064 (c)"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "1972.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dorogov=Y"]
[Black "(=0345.11f5a4)"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/4rN2/5n1B/5K2/k7/3pN3/bP6/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "23"]
[EventDate "1972.??.??"]

1. b3+ Bxb3 2. Ne5 d2 3. N3c4 Rxe5+ (3... Nd5 4. Bxd2 Bc2+ 5. Kg4 Be4 {
Interesting 8-man position.}) 4. Kxe5 Ng4+ 5. Ke4 d1=N 6. Nb6+ Kb5 7. Bg7 Kxb6
8. Kf3 Nh2+ 9. Kg2 Ng4 10. Kf3 Be6 11. Ke2 Bb3 12. Kf3 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[d]8/4r3/8/3nN3/k1N1b1K1/8/3B4/8 w - - 0 6
Are you sure, Jon?
Don't see any progress.
Here's komodo after some Forward- Backward with full Syzygys and switched off nullmove at the end of your line in braces:

[d]8/4r3/8/3nN3/k1N1b1K1/8/3B4/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Komodo 10.2 64-bit:

6.Nf3 Bb1 7.Kg3 Re8 8.Kf2 Rc8 9.Nd6 Rf8 10.Kg3 Rd8 11.Nc4 Rc8 12.Nfe5 Rg8+ 13.Kf2 Rf8+ 14.Kg3 Re8 15.Nf3 Ba2 16.Nfe5 Kb3 17.Kf2 Bb1 18.Na5+ Ka2 19.Nac4 Be4 20.Kg3 Bh1 21.Bg5 Nc3 22.Bd2 Kb3
=/+ (-0.41) Depth: 31 00:04:11 2826MN, tb=82918738

And after about 50 moves and exchange of two light figures trying to avoid this boundary, komodo gets 6mob-positions like this one again:

[d]8/4KN2/8/7r/2k1n3/4B3/8/8 w - - 0 55

But most ironically instead of 3...Rxe5? 3...d1Q! leads to a_black_mates_in_78- 6some- position:

[pgn]
[Event "Shakmaty#64"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2016.12.10"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Dorogov, cooked?"]
[Black "Yes, and no"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "8/4rN2/5n1B/5K2/k7/3pN3/bP6/8 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "166"]

1. b3+ Bxb3 2. Ne5 d2 3. N3c4 d1=Q 4. Nb2+ Kb5 5. Nxd1 Bxd1 6. Kxf6 Re8 7. Kf5
Bc2+ 8. Kf4 Kc5 9. Ng4 Kd6 10. Ne3 Bg6 11. Bg7 Ke6 12. Nd1 Rg8 13. Bb2 Rd8 14.
Nc3 Rd4+ 15. Ke3 Rb4 16. Ba1 Kf5 17. Nd5 Re4+ 18. Kd2 Re6 19. Nb4 Ke4 20. Bh8
Bf7 21. Bg7 Rd6+ 22. Kc3 Rd1 23. Kc2 Rg1 24. Bf6 Rg6 25. Bb2 Rb6 26. Kc3 Rb7
27. Ba3 Rc7+ 28. Kd2 Kd4 29. Nc2+ Kd5 30. Bb2 Bg6 31. Nd4 Bh7 32. Bc3 Ke4 33.
Ne6 Rd7+ 34. Nd4 Bg8 35. Bb2 Rd5 36. Ba1 Bf7 37. Bb2 Rh5 38. Ba1 Rh1 39. Nc2
Rh2+ 40. Kc3 Rh3+ 41. Kd2 Rd3+ 42. Kc1 Bh5 43. Bf6 Rd6 44. Bh8 Kd3 45. Nb4+ Kc4
46. Nc2 Rd1+ 47. Kb2 Rd2 48. Kc1 Rf2 49. Nd4 Bg6 50. Nc6 Bf5 51. Nd4 Be4 52.
Bg7 Bh7 53. Be5 Kd3 54. Bg7 Rf7 55. Be5 Re7 56. Nf3 Be4 57. Ne1+ Ke3 58. Bg3
Rg7 59. Be5 Rg5 60. Bd6 Rd5 61. Ba3 Ke2 62. Nc2 Rd2 63. Na1 Bg6 64. Bb4 Ra2 65.
Bc3 Kd3 66. Bh8 Bf7 67. Bg7 Bg8 68. Bh8 Re2 69. Bg7 Re7 70. Bf8 Rb7 71. Ba3 Bf7
72. Nc2 Rc7 73. Kd1 Rxc2 74. Ke1 Be6 75. Bb4 Re2+ 76. Kd1 Bg4 77. Kc1 Rc2+ 78.
Kb1 Bf5 79. Be1 Kc4 80. Bc3 Re2+ 81. Ka1 Kb3 82. Bd2 Be4 83. Be1 Ra2# 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]

50 moves- boundary is reached before the next figure- loss, so as for classical chess rules it's draw, but as for studies that doesn't matter normally.
So we could say draw and yet somewhat cooked.

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:57 am

The question is whether 50-move rule applies to composed endgame studies.

Nordlandia · Post by **Nordlandia** » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:20 am

Verdict: black wins by stalemating white king.

Probing 6-men nalimov.

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