Chess Performance enhancing drugs!

[reflectionofpower]

https://worldchess.com/2017/01/25/speci ... for-chess/

Summary: methylphenidate and modafinil seem to help chess performance. Data is a bit skewed since the drugs made players actually play slower, causing more time losses. but the drugs appeared to improve performance by 9-15%. More data is needed to conclude much.

It seems so unnecesary to jepordize ones health with such dubious drugs, when you can get stuff which is probably much better and healthier too.
Here is a recent thing i came accross which might be great.

http://lillo.orangepdg.com/Zebra_Acadie

InteliGEN - The ingredients are common things you can buy off any supplement store. It's not some esoteric substance in the formula. Don't expect to be like Bradley Cooper in the movie Limitless - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1219289/?re ... lmg_act_26

[Ras]

How much do these data mean in the Rating Elo

Coffee is worth 20 IQ points, according to Dilbert:

http://dilbert.com/strip/2017-01-23

[reflectionofpower]

How much do these data mean in the Rating Elo

Coffee is worth 20 IQ points, according to Dilbert:

http://dilbert.com/strip/2017-01-23

Ahhh, The Great & Wise Dilbert. He is InteliGEN. Hawking is knot!

[Ponti]

https://worldchess.com/2017/01/25/speci ... for-chess/

Summary: methylphenidate and modafinil seem to help chess performance.

Well... as a clinical neurologist with 20 years of practice that´s what I´ll tell you, guys:

1) these drugs won´t make you smarter;

2) these drugs do improve your awareness, but in regard to chess, they won´t make any miracle. If you don´t know tactics, if you play badly in the endgame, if you don´t know the openings you play, you are still a bad player, with or without these drugs.
_Maybe_ you´ll be more alert of your pieces hanging... or some tactics that you _already_know_well_... worth a better performance in a tournament,let´s say, 10 or 15 ELO... ?

3) The dark side of these drugs make them really dangerous if you don´t know what you are doing:
- addiction
- convulsions
- psychiatric side-effects (some are really dangerous)
- cardiac arrythmias and their side effects
- high blood pressure and all kinds of complications from it
- insomnia...

So I suggest to take just a cup of coffee in the morning before the game.

Play chess and be happy. Don´t be fool.

[S.Taylor]

So you see everyone!!!!
I was right!!!!

Most psychiatric drugs are dagerous and best avoided. They might help some people, but in the long term, It probably has anything from mild side effects to quick death and anything else in between.

I don't disrespect people who uses any, but they need to know what they're doing!

But there are natural things that help with probably no side effects. Not much more than when eating normal food. OK, so be careful with all herbs too, but it's a much safer route.
And if i made a mistake with my first website, i DO know that Premier Research Labs is probably the greatest supplement company in the world, and their product "cereven", formally called "brain complex", is probably one of the best. Let's say, to take it for a few weeks and then judge.

[BrendanJNorman]

https://worldchess.com/2017/01/25/speci ... for-chess/

Summary: methylphenidate and modafinil seem to help chess performance.

Well... as a clinical neurologist with 20 years of practice that´s what I´ll tell you, guys:

1) these drugs won´t make you smarter;

2) these drugs do improve your awareness, but in regard to chess, they won´t make any miracle. If you don´t know tactics, if you play badly in the endgame, if you don´t know the openings you play, you are still a bad player, with or without these drugs.
_Maybe_ you´ll be more alert of your pieces hanging... or some tactics that you _already_know_well_... worth a better performance in a tournament,let´s say, 10 or 15 ELO... ?

3) The dark side of these drugs make them really dangerous if you don´t know what you are doing:
- addiction
- convulsions
- psychiatric side-effects (some are really dangerous)
- cardiac arrythmias and their side effects
- high blood pressure and all kinds of complications from it
- insomnia...

So I suggest to take just a cup of coffee in the morning before the game.

Play chess and be happy. Don´t be fool.

Awesome to have the input of an expert on the matter, thanks for sharing mate.

Yes, although I mentioned that I've used "nootropics" for years, this was only after perhaps hundreds of hours of research into the potential side-effects, benefits, reading case studies, etc.

They're not vitamins, they're drugs and should be treated as such.

What you said about them essentially not turning a weak player into a strong player is spot on as well.

In fact, their effect is so subtle that 90% of people either won't notice it or will experience some form of placebo effect.

To avoid placebo effect clouding research, people sometimes use tools like
http://www.humanbenchmark.com to get real metrics on mental reaction times before and after use.

Anyway, yes there are side effects like addiction (not common), tolerance (need to take more to achieve the same benefit over time), load on the liver, and things of this nature.

To be clear, the Smart Drugs I'm mostly referring to (which I've experimented with) are:

What I have used:

- Modafinil (Should be taken very rarely. For example, if somehow you've been given a big deadline and have 10,000 words to write in one day. Which is actually the case with me today)

-The Racetam family of drugs such as Piracetam, Aniracetam, Oxiracetam, and Phenylpiracetam (with the exception of phenylpiracetam, can be taken as frequently as you like - i.e the potential for overdose is nil, but sticking to the recommended dose is best.)

- Phenibut (Great for mood support. Think of an audio limiter that cuts all audio above and below a certain frequency/volume to optimize the sound. This does the same for your mood. You'll find it hard to get angry about anything and feel an overall sense of well-being/confidence in your day. DO be careful with this one as tolerance sets in fast. Maybe once or twice a week max)

- Noopept (This one is similar to the racetam family but a little stronger, while being still modest compared to Modafinil. Only requires tiny doses and will keep you sharp for hours.)

- L-Theanine (This stuff is fantastic to be honest. It's similar to Phenibut in its effects, but also different. For example, you can add a tiny bit to your morning espresso to completely remove any form of "caffeine jitters", whilst retaining the sharpness of mind the caffeine provided. So you'll be sharp, but calm)

What does it mean?

So as you, Dr Ponti said, these things won't make you smarter per say, but they can help to produce a state of mind (confidence, concentration, improved memory) where you can make yourself smarter.

I have basically reached fluency in Mandarin Chinese without study, simply by listening, asking a lot of questions and remembering everything.

I'm pretty sure the Nootropics helped a lot with this.

Safety:

Again, for others, as the good doctor said: These things aren't vitamins, or candy - they're drugs.

If you want to give them a try, just out of curiosity, do as I did and invest a couple of weeks/months studying the science behind them, research, user experiences and such.

Also, go to your doctor for a full body check and inform them of your intentions.

You're messing with your neurochemistry and everybody's body will respond slightly differently, so best to be smart about your individual case and ask the G.P for his/her judgement on if your body type will respond well to it.

Also, please do not use them for tournament chess games, not for health reasons, but because it's dishonest.

Dr Ponti, have you done much research into the particular compounds I mentioned?

I'd be interested to discuss more.

Concluding Notes:

1. These "smart" drugs are for OPTIMIZING performance, not creating something out of nothing. So if you have a poor diet and your body is in poor shape, don't waste your time. Cut the carbs and hit the gym for 3 months first. As someone on a nootropic forum hilariously once said: "You can't polish a turd" haha

2. Most of these drugs use a lot of the body's Acetylcholine (a vital neurotransmitter) supply, so it's vital to supplement with a Choline source of some kind to keep your levels up. I myself use CDP Choline, but also eat a lot of eggs (1 egg yolk contains 115 mg of choline) in my diet, so it's not a problem.

[BrendanJNorman]

So you see everyone!!!!

Most psychiatric drugs are dangerous and best avoided.

But there are natural things that help with probably no side effects. Not much more than when eating normal food.

Completely agree with you.

Most psychiatric drugs are dangerous and to be avoided.

But I wouldn't place things like let's say Ritalin in the same camp as say Piracetam.

There difference is that research into most psychiatric drugs shows terribly side-effects from over-use or misapplication.

On the other hand, most of these "smart drug" compounds have absolutely no cases of bad experience at all.

Very much agree with you that going the natural route is best and if one has a good diet and gets plenty of exercise/resistance training, they'll already be doing very well.

This stuff can only really provide a small edge to people already taking care of themselves. The movie Limitless is very misleading.

Like most things, especially in this sometimes shady industry, doing enormous prior research is mandatory before even thinking about it.

[yanquis1972]

So you see everyone!!!!

Most psychiatric drugs are dangerous and best avoided.

But there are natural things that help with probably no side effects. Not much more than when eating normal food.

Completely agree with you.

Most psychiatric drugs are dangerous and to be avoided.

But I wouldn't place things like let's say Ritalin in the same camp as say Piracetam.

There difference is that research into most psychiatric drugs shows terribly side-effects from over-use or misapplication.

On the other hand, most of these "smart drug" compounds have absolutely no cases of bad experience at all.

Very much agree with you that going the natural route is best and if one has a good diet and gets plenty of exercise/resistance training, they'll already be doing very well.

This stuff can only really provide a small edge to people already taking care of themselves. The movie Limitless is very misleading.

Like most things, especially in this sometimes shady industry, doing enormous prior research is mandatory before even thinking about it.

i like 99% of what you said but i dont understand (hence disagree with) the distinction b/w 'psychiatric drugs' & the others... imo its wiser to simply say "these are all either drugs or snake oil, so do thorough research before buying/using". modafinil is uncommon relative to ritalin/adderall, but its also heavily regulated & ive not read anything to suggest it has limited abuse potential; in fact it seems quite similar to extended-release amphetamines in action if not mechanism. similarly ive read firsthand reports of phenibut (thats the one i was talking about earlier) that would suggest its got very high potential for ruinous levels of abuse. you rightly provide a strong caution for each. what you might find simple (taking a proper dose only as needed/responsibly) might be extremely difficult or even impossible for others.

its quite easy for me to imagine a future (or alternate now) where modafinil is pushed in a manner similar to ritalin/adderall now & phenibut like xanax. and i simply don't see the important distinction there, except that less is known about the lesser-used drugs, which isn't a good thing...

[BrendanJNorman]

So you see everyone!!!!

Most psychiatric drugs are dangerous and best avoided.

But there are natural things that help with probably no side effects. Not much more than when eating normal food.

Completely agree with you.

Most psychiatric drugs are dangerous and to be avoided.

But I wouldn't place things like let's say Ritalin in the same camp as say Piracetam.

There difference is that research into most psychiatric drugs shows terribly side-effects from over-use or misapplication.

On the other hand, most of these "smart drug" compounds have absolutely no cases of bad experience at all.

Very much agree with you that going the natural route is best and if one has a good diet and gets plenty of exercise/resistance training, they'll already be doing very well.

This stuff can only really provide a small edge to people already taking care of themselves. The movie Limitless is very misleading.

Like most things, especially in this sometimes shady industry, doing enormous prior research is mandatory before even thinking about it.

i like 99% of what you said but i dont understand (hence disagree with) the distinction b/w 'psychiatric drugs' & the others... imo its wiser to simply say "these are all either drugs or snake oil, so do thorough research before buying/using". modafinil is uncommon relative to ritalin/adderall, but its also heavily regulated & ive not read anything to suggest it has limited abuse potential; in fact it seems quite similar to extended-release amphetamines in action if not mechanism. similarly ive read firsthand reports of phenibut (thats the one i was talking about earlier) that would suggest its got very high potential for ruinous levels of abuse. you rightly provide a strong caution for each. what you might find simple (taking a proper dose only as needed/responsibly) might be extremely difficult or even impossible for others.

its quite easy for me to imagine a future (or alternate now) where modafinil is pushed in a manner similar to ritalin/adderall now & phenibut like xanax. and i simply don't see the important distinction there, except that less is known about the lesser-used drugs, which isn't a good thing...

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, John.

I''ll just make the distinction myself, to save you digging around the net.

I would never take a psychotic drugs (known as a "psychotropic") because the side-effects are very real and abuse can and often does, destroy lives.

I would see no benefit at all, once doing a risk/reward assessment.

Examples of psychotropics are:

Ritilin
Xanax
Zoloft
Prozac

This is simply misuse of prescription drugs designed for ill patients.

On the other hand, the use of NOOTROPICS has relatively no risk at all and the benefits enormous.

Here's how psychotropics and nootropics have been differentiated elsewhere:

In context|pharmacology|lang=en terms the difference between psychotropic and nootropic is that psychotropic is (pharmacology) a psychotropic drug or agent while nootropic is (pharmacology) a drug that enhances learning and memory and lacks the usual pharmacology of other psychotropic drugs (eg sedation, motor stimulation) and possesses very few side effects and extremely low toxicity.

(source: http://wikidiff.com/nootropic/psychotropic)

So in terms of both science and usage cases, I think these things are quite different.

In terms of user experience, I've heard that the psychotropic drugs do give you some sort of a "high" and you know you are definitely "on" something. They are strong and potentially dangerous prescription drugs.

On the other hand, as someone who has used nootropics for years, I can say that If I took something, or I didn't I wouldn't know the difference.

It's so subtle that the only way you know is in retrospect ("oh! I got lots of work done today. And I don't feel tired yet...cool!" is the gist of it.)

If my wife (or anyone) popped an Aniracetam capsule in my coffee when I was out of the room, I'd never notice.

I'd just work a very little bit more productively.

That's it.

I haven't tried psychotropic drugs, but I imagine they're a lot less subtle than this.

[yanquis1972]

arent you being selective? its extremely unlikely you'd notice a dose of prozac or zoloft either. you may not be able to chemically OD on phenibut like you can xanax (i dont know), but thats not where the core potential for harm is. i don't see how phenibut is not effectively a sedative, with very similar potential for abuse, impairment & addiction to prescription benzodiazepines. similarly modafinil vs prescription ritalin or adderall - what's the real difference?? from the little ive read, its mostly down to how widespread the usage is. i'm singling out these 2 bc neither fit your definition of nootropics; they both seem to be very serious drugs with a truckload of side effects, some of which clearly indicate very high abuse risk. nothing subtle about them, unless you assume that everyone will take such drugs only as prescribed/at therapeutic doses, which of course is folly.