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MikeGL
Posts: 1010 Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm
Post
by MikeGL » Wed Sep 19, 2018 3:02 pm
kasinp wrote: ↑ Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:05 pm
zullil wrote: ↑ Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:14 pm
17 Fishing Rod == [FEN "8/1B3b1p/7P/p2p4/P2pp1kp/Q7/1N1Pq2P/7K w - - 0 1"]
[d]8/1B3b1p/7P/p2p4/P2pp1kp/Q7/1N1Pq2P/7K w - - 0 1
Stockfish-dev solves this one, at about depth 60 on 20 cores. So I'd rate this one a 2; Stockfish seemed very confused for a long time.
Pretty study!
Houdini 6.03 on 14 cores gets this one in just over one minute and does see the draw. Seems it is able to zoom in on the solution quicker.
PK
By enabling No_Null_Moves, McBrain v3.0 (old TCEC Version) also gets the draw on my
slow laptop (Dual Core 2.0 Ghz) in less than 30 seconds. Tried 5 runs and hash cleared per run and it always gets it in under 30 seconds.
I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12566 Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
Post
by Dann Corbit » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:03 pm
Dann Corbit wrote: ↑ Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:00 pm
Dann Corbit wrote: ↑ Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:19 am
I have some engines taking a peek at these positions over the weekend.
We'll see how well they did on Monday.
Engines used on moderately strong machines for one hour are: Stockfish (bleeding edge development version), Matefinder, McCain, Sting10 (crashed 2/3 of the way through), Houdini 6 Tactical 1.
Solved by move choice (05 has a bad score, but it stays put for many iterations):
Code: Select all
5k2/2p4p/6P1/1p3n2/3q4/PB4BN/KP5P/8 w - - acd 73; bm Ng5; c3 "Ng5"; ce 432; id "* Smothering II +-"; pm Ng5; pv Ng5;
3k4/2pq3p/pp5R/4P3/P6P/2PN4/1PN3K1/8 w - - acd 64; bm Nd4; c1 "Hard"; c3 "Nd4"; ce 723; id "01 Constrictor +-"; pm Nd4; pv Nd4;
6Nk/pp2Np1p/2p2Pp1/2R2bP1/7K/P7/1q1n1Q2/5n2 w - - acd 69; bm Rxf5; c1 "diff=9"; c3 "Rxf5"; ce 1155; id "02 Mirror +-"; pm Rxf5; pv Rxf5 gxf5;
5B1q/3N3p/p3p2p/7k/B7/5PP1/K6P/8 w - - acd 56; bm Ne5; c3 "Ne5"; ce 32582; id "03 Walk +-"; pm Ne5; pv Ne5 Qxf8 f4 Qd8 Bc6 Qd2+ Kb3 Qd1+ Kc3 Qe1+ Kc4 Qc1+ Kb4 Qb2+ Kc5 Qa3+ Kb6 Qd6 Kb7 Qe7+ Kc8 Qf8+ Kd7 Qg7+ Kxe6 Qg8+ Kf5 Qc8+ Ke4 Qd8 Ke3 Qb6+ Kf3 Qb3+ Kg2 Qc2+ Kh3 Qf5+ g4+ Qxg4+ Nxg4 Kg6 Be4+ Kf7 Bxh7 h5 Kh4 Ke7 Ne5 Kd8 Bd3 a5 Nc6+ Kc7 Nxa5 Kc8 Kxh5 Kd8 f5 Kd7 h3 Ke7 h4 Kf6 Nb3 Ke7 f6+ Kf7 Na1 Kg8 f7+ Kf8;
8/b4kp1/2p1p3/5pB1/p1PP4/1p6/3K1P2/3N4 w - - acd 75; bm Kc3; c3 "Kc3"; ce -396; id "05 Stubbornness =="; pm Kc3; pv Kc3 Bxd4+ Kxd4 b2 Nxb2 a3 Nd3 a2 Ne5+ Ke8 f4 a1=Q+ Kc5 Qh1 Kd6 c5 Kxe6 Qd1 Bh4 Qb3 Bg5 Qa3 Kxf5 Qh3+ Ke4 Qe6 Ke3 Qf5 Kf3 Qb1 Kg4 Qd1+ Kg3 g6 Kh4 Qd6 Kg3 Qd4 Kf3 Qd1+ Ke3 Qh1 Ke2 Qg2+ Ke3 Qh3+ Kf2 Qh2+ Kf3 Qc2 Ke3 Kf8 Kf3 Qd1+ Kg3 Qd4 Kg4 Kg7 Kh3 Qe4 Kg3 Qe3+ Kg4 Qf2 Kh3 Qc2 Kg3 Qe4 Kg4 Qg2+ Kh4 Kf8 Bf6 Qh1+ Kg3 Qe1+ Kg4 Qe4 Kg3 Qe3+ Kg4 Qb3 Bh4 Ke8 Bg5 Qe3 Bh4 Qg1+ Kf3 Qd1+ Kg2 Qe2+ Kg3 Qc2 Bg5 Qe4 Kg4;
q7/b1p5/kp1p4/p2PN3/PPP5/1K6/8/5B2 w - - acd 92; bm c5+; c1 "Hard"; c3 "c5+"; ce 1892; id "08 Slowness +-"; pm c5+; pv c5+ Kb7 Ba6+ Kxa6 b5+ Kb7 c6+ Kc8 Nf7 Kb8 Kc4 Kc8 Kc3 Bb8 Kc2 Qa7 Kb3 Qa8 Kc4 Ba7;
1N4K1/1pp1p3/7k/2r3pP/p2pp1P1/P6N/8/2B5 w - - acd 47; bm Nc6; c0 "http://www.chessvideos.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10770"; c3 "Nc6"; ce 0; id "09 Standstill =="; pm Nc6; pv Nc6 bxc6 Nxg5 Rxg5+ Kh8 e3 Bxe3 d3 Bf4 c5 Bc1 e5 Bf4 c4 Bc1 c3 Be3 e4 Bd2 cxd2;
4B3/k1K1pp2/p3bq2/2p1p3/1p2P1P1/4P2Q/nR6/8 w - - acd 53; bm g5; c3 "g5"; ce 0; id "10 Shelter =="; pm g5; pv g5 Qxg5 Qxe6 fxe6 Rxa2 Qg8 Ra4 Qxe8 Rxa6+ Kxa6;
4N2k/4PB1p/7P/B1p5/2P5/3q2Pp/1P3P1K/2r5 w - - acd 62; bm Bc3+; c3 "Bc3+"; ce 696; id "11 Chase +-"; pm Bc3+; pv Bc3+;
2b5/1pr4p/3bp1pk/1p6/1PpN2PP/K1P1n3/P3N1R1/3R4 w - - acd 58; bm Nxb5; c3 "Nxb5"; ce 0; id "12 Desperation =="; pm Nxb5; pv Nxb5 Nxd1 Nxd6 e5 Nxc8 Rxc8 Ka4 Ra8+ Kb5 Rxa2 Rg1 Nf2 Ng3 Nxg4 Kb6 Nf6 Kxb7 Rc2 Kc6 Rxc3 b5 Rb3 b6 c3 Rc1 Ng8 b7 Ne7+ Kc7 Nd5+ Kd6 Nf4 Kc7;
3B2r1/n3Pp2/P7/5k1p/q3NP2/7K/5P2/4NB2 w - - acd 56; bm Nf6; c3 "Nf6"; ce 299; id "14 Fork-field +-"; pm Nf6; pv Nf6 Rh8;
8/q1p1N1p1/3p1p1p/pk5P/1p2BB2/8/PK3P2/8 w - - acd 86; bm Be3; c3 "Be3"; ce 170; id "15 Harassment +-"; pm Be3; pv Be3;
6kq/2p4p/6P1/5nN1/K7/2P5/7B/3B4 w - - acd 63; bm Bb3+; c3 "Bb3+"; ce 1814; id "16 Smothering +-"; pm Bb3+; pv Bb3+;
8/1B3b1p/7P/p2p4/P2pp1kp/Q7/1N1Pq2P/7K w - - acd 61; bm Qh3+; c3 "Qh3+"; ce 0; id "17 Fishing Rod =="; pm Qh3+; pv Qh3+ Kxh3 Bc8+ Qg4 Nd1 e3 d3 Bg6 Bf5 Bh5 Be6 Be8 Bd7 Qxd7 Nf2+ exf2;
8/pr1Pq3/br1kP3/1R2RQ2/5p2/1nPK4/5P2/8 w - - acd 67; bm Qxf4; c3 "Qxf4"; ce 0; id "19 Evil Eye =="; pm Qxf4; pv Qxf4 Rxb5 Rxb5+ Kxe6 Qc4+ Kxd7 Rxb7+ Bxb7 Qxb3 Qe4+ Kd2 Qf4+ Ke1 Bc6 Qb4 Qc1+ Ke2 Qa1 Qb3 Qa5 Qf7+ Kc8 Qf8+ Kc7 Qf4+ Kb7 Qb4+ Qxb4 cxb4;
4b3/5p2/2p4p/P1p1PN2/2pn2P1/P2k4/Pr1npKN1/B7 w - - acd 62; bm Ne1+; c3 "Ne1+"; ce 0; id "20 Roundabout +-"; pm Ne1+; pv Ne1+ Kc3 Ng3 Bd7 a6 Bc8 a7 Bb7 Kg2 Ba8 Kf2;
Not solved:
7q/b1p5/1p1Npkb1/pPP2ppP/P1P5/3B2P1/5P1R/K3R3 w - - acd 54; bm Nb7; c0 "
http://www.yacpdb.org/#340530 "; c1 "Hard"; c2 "Neghina, Mihai; Euxinus Pontus (13/E4) 2010-07"; c3 "hxg6"; ce 0; id "04 Detour +-"; pm Nb7; pv Nb7 Ke7+ Ka2 Qc3 Rd1 Qb4 Bc2 Qxc4+ Kb1 Qb4+ Ka2;
2k4N/Q1np4/2p2Bpp/1p1P4/pPP1p2P/P7/7q/1K6 w - - acd 55; bm Bb2; c3 "Nf7"; ce 0; id "06 Guard Change +-"; pm Bb2; pv Bb2 Qh3 dxc6 Qd3+ Ka2 Qxc4+ Ka1 Qf1+ Ka2;
8/4Pr1N/8/6PN/8/3K1ppp/4prkb/4Bbnn w - - acd 74; bm e8=Q; c3 "Nf8"; ce 0; id "13 Shield +-"; pm e8=Q; pv e8=Q Rd7+ Qxd7;
6k1/1qr1p2p/ppN5/3p1N2/6p1/1P1P2Pp/PP2PP1P/2RK4 w - - acd 51; bm Rc3; c3 "Ncxe7+"; ce -564; id "18 Stronghold =="; pm Rc3; pv Rc3 h5;
For the not solved positions, I tried analyzing the position after the solution move is performed. No help.
Code: Select all
2k4N/Q1np4/2p2Bpp/1p1P4/pPP1p2P/P7/7q/1K6 w - - acd 59; acs 7003; acn 111711952034; ce 0; bm dxc6; pv dxc6 dxc6 Bb2 Qh3 cxb5 Qd3+ Ka2 Qb3+ Ka1 Qd1+ Ka2;
2k5/Q1np1N2/2p2Bpp/1p1P4/pPP1p2P/P7/7q/1K6 b - - acd 63; acs 7229; acn 107865300722; ce 0; bm Qg3; pv Qg3 Be5 Qe1+ Ka2 Qe2+ Ka1 Qd1+ Kb2 Qd2+ Ka1;
5N2/4Pr2/8/6PN/8/3K1ppp/4prkb/4Bbnn b - - acd 119; acs 5751; acn 81754711310; ce 0; bm Rxf8; pv Rxf8 exf8Q;
8/4Pr1N/8/6PN/8/3K1ppp/4prkb/4Bbnn w - - acd 80; acs 7097; acn 94636349997; ce 0; bm e8Q; pv e8Q Rd7+ Qxd7;
6k1/1qr1N2p/pp6/3p1N2/6p1/1P1P2Pp/PP2PP1P/2RK4 b - - acd 20; acs 4; acn 5119874; ce 483; bm Kf8; pv Kf8 Rxc7 Qxc7 d4 Qd7 Kd2 Qb5 Ke3 Qa5 Kf4 Qd2+ Kxg4 Qxe2+ Kxh3 Kf7 Kg2 Ke6 b4 Qxb2 g4 Qxb4 Nc6 Qb1 Ne5 Qxa2 Nf3;
6k1/1qr1p2p/ppN5/3p1N2/6p1/1P1P2Pp/PP2PP1P/2RK4 w - - acd 43; acs 6373; acn 100204981924; ce -782; bm Rc3; pv Rc3 h5;
7q/b1p5/1p1Npkb1/pPP2ppP/P1P5/3B2P1/5P1R/K3R3 w - - acd 57; acs 6495; acn 97597643532; ce 0; bm Nb7; pv Nb7 Ke7+ Ka2 Qc3 Rd1 Qb4 Bc2 Qxc4+ Kb2 Qb4+ Bb3 bxc5 hxg6 c4 Nxa5 Qxa5 g7 Qb4 Rd7+ Kxd7 g8Q Qxb3+ Kc1 Qc3+ Kd1 Qd3+ Ke1 Qb1+ Ke2 Qd3+;
7q/b1p5/1p1NpkP1/pPP2pp1/P1P5/3B2P1/5P1R/K3R3 b - - acd 65; acs 6265; acn 109895671441; ce 0; bm Qxh2; pv Qxh2 Rxe6+ Kxe6 g7 Qh1+ Kb2 Qa8 Nxf5 Kf6 c6 Qe8 Kb3 Qe6 Be4 Qxe4 g8Q Qxf5 Qd8+ Kg6 Qxc7 Qd3+ Kb2 Qd2+ Kb3;
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
lech
Posts: 1136 Joined: Sun Feb 14, 2010 10:02 pm
Post
by lech » Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:32 pm
The author (YAPCDB) "Shield" solution is:
[pgn]
[FEN "8/4Pr1N/8/6PN/8/3K1ppp/4prkb/4Bbnn w - - 0 1"]
1. Nf8 Rxf8 2. e8Q Rf7 3. Qe7 Rf6 4. Qe6 Rf5 5. Qe5 Rf8 6. Qd4 Rf5 {other moves lead to duals} 7. Kc2 Rc5 8. Kb3 Rb5 9. Ka4 Rf5 10. Qd8 Rf8 11. g6 Rf5 12. Qg5 Rf8 {I like 12... Rf7 much better} 13. g7 Rf7 14. g8N
[/pgn]
A wonderful very deep study!
Maybe, I can't be friendly, but let me be useful.
peter
Posts: 3187 Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan
Post
by peter » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:30 pm
lech wrote: ↑ Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:51 pm
Give me the last chance!
[pgn]
[FEN "8/4Pr1N/8/6PN/8/3K1ppp/4prkb/4Bbnn w - - 0 1"]
1. Nf8 Rxf8 2. e8Q Rf7 3. Qe7 Rf6 4. Qe6 Rf5 5. Qe5 Rf8 6. Qd4 Rf7 7. Kc2 Rc7 8. Kb3 Rf7 9. Qe5 Rb7 10. Ka4 Ra7 11. Qa5 Rf7 12. Qc7 Rf6 13. Qd6 Rf7 14. Qe7 Rf5 15. Qd8 Rf8 16. g6 Rf5 17. Qg5 Rf7 18. g7 Ra7 19. Qa5 Rf7 20. g8N Rf5 21. Ne7 Rxh5 22. Ng6 Rxa5 23. Bxa5
[/pgn]
Ok.
In this one line you gave away only 4 moves, shortest way to mate might be 20.
After Backward (strongly forbidden way of solving of course
) of Mihai's solution- line:
12: Mihai Neghina12 - Shield, White to move and win 9
8/4Pr1N/8/6PN/8/3K1ppp/4prkb/4Bbnn w - - 0 1
Analysis by MateFinder 120918 64:
1.Nf8 Rxf8 2.e8Q Rf7 3.Qe7 Rf6 4.Qe6 Rf8 5.Qd5 Rf6 6.Qd4 Rf7 7.Kc3 Rf6 8.Kb3 Rf5 9.Qd5 Rf7 10.Qd8 Rf5 11.Ka3 Rf6 12.g6 Rf5 13.Qg5 Rf7 14.Ka4 Rf5 15.g7 Rf8 16.g8N Ra8+ 17.Qa5 Rf8 18.Ne7 Rf6 19.Nd5 Ra6 20.Ne3#
+- (#20) Depth: 43/50 00:04:00 7159MN
Peter.
Vinvin
Posts: 5228 Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:40 am
Full name: Vincent Lejeune
Post
by Vinvin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:15 am
Vinvin wrote: ↑ Wed Sep 19, 2018 2:35 pm
peter wrote: ↑ Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:39 pm
So you didn't get the demanded winning eval for 2 (Mirror), 6 (Guard Change), 16 (Smothering 2), and 20 (Roundabout) , nor the demanded drawing eval for 5 (Stubbornness) and 9 (Shelter). And that just among those at which the first move was found at all.
...
I started some 1 hour search for this 6 positions, trying to reach the theorical eval (+- or =) :
2 (Mirror) 1. Rxf5 ; +-
5 (Stubbornness) 1. Kc3 ; =
6 (Guard Change) 1. Nf7; +-
9 (Shelter) 1. g5 ; =
16 (Smothering 2) 1. Ng5; +-
20 (Roundabout) 1. Ne1+; +-
Results this evening.
After 1 hour (still with Stockfish_180910) :
Code: Select all
1) Rc5xf5 Rc5xf5 * 0 Sec Rc5xf5 * 0 Sec Rc5xf5 * 0 Sec
2) Kd2-c3 Kd2-c3 * 67 Sec Kd2-c3 * 62 Sec Kd2-c3 * 83 Sec
3) Nh8-f7 d5xc6 d5xc6 d5xc6
4) g4-g5 Rb2-d2 g4-g5 * 853 Sec g4-g5 * 1089 Sec
5) Nh3-g5 g6xh7 g6xh7 Nh3-g5 * 0 Sec
6) Ng2-e1 Ng2-e1 * 0 Sec Ng2-e1 * 0 Sec Ng2-e1 * 0 Sec
Eval at the end of the search:
Code: Select all
1 Rxf5 67/12 34:21 23 851 894 156 11 569 356 0,00 1.Rxf5 gxf5 2.Nh6 Nf3+ 3.Qxf3 Qh2+ 4.Qh3 Qf2+ 5.Kh5 Qe2+ 6.Kh4
1 Rxf5 69/12 52:50 36 317 614 347 11 453 629 0,00 1.Rxf5 gxf5 2.Nh6 Nf3+ 3.Qxf3 Qh2+ 4.Qh3 Qf2+ 5.Kh5 Qe2+ 6.Kh4
1 Rxf5 70/14 59:20 43 267 378 177 12 153 672 0,00 1.Rxf5 gxf5 2.Nh6 Nf3+ 3.Qxf3 Qh2+ 4.Qh3 Qf2+ 5.Kh5 Qe2+ 6.Kh4
2 Kc3 75/91 48:48 31 413 016 113 10 727 023 -3,56 1.Kc3 Bxd4+ 2.Kxd4 b2 3.Nxb2 a3 4.Nd3 a2 5.Ne5+ Ke8 6.f4 a1Q+ 7.Kc5 Qa6 8.Kd6 Qc8 9.Be7 c5 10.Bh4 Kf8 11.Be7+ Kg8 12.Bh4 Kh7 13.Bg5 g6 14.Bh4 Kh6 15.Bg5+ Kg7 16.Bh4 Kh7 17.Bg5 Qf8+ 18.Be7 Qb8+ 19.Kxe6 Qc7 20.Bf6 Qa5 21.Be7 Qa3 22.Bf6 Qa6+ 23.Kf7 Qc8 24.Bg5 Qg8+ 25.Ke7 Qb8 26.Ke6 Qa7 27.Kd5 Kg8 28.Kd6 Qa3 29.Ke6 Qb4 30.Kd5 Kh7 31.Ke6 Qa4 32.Be7 Kg8 33.Bh4 Qa8 34.Be7 Qa6+ 35.Kd5 Kh7 36.Bg5 Qa7 37.Ke6 Kg7 38.Kd5 Qa3 39.Ke6 Kg8 40.Kf6 Qa6+ 41.Ke7 Kg7 42.Bh4 Qb6 43.Bg5 Qb4 44.Ke6 Qd2 45.Bf6+ Kh6
2 Kc3 77/97 55:52 42 494 368 054 12 676 432 -3,77 1.Kc3 Bxd4+ 2.Kxd4 b2 3.Nxb2 a3 4.Nd3 a2 5.Ne5+ Ke8 6.f4 a1Q+ 7.Kc5 Qa6 8.Bh4 Qc8 9.Bg5 Qc7 10.Bh4 Kf8 11.Bg5 Kg8 12.Bh4 Kh7 13.Bg5 Qc8 14.Kd6 c5 15.Bh4 Kg8 16.Bg5 Kh8 17.Ng6+ Kh7 18.Ne5 g6 19.Ke7 Kg8 20.Bh4 Qa6 21.Bg5 Qb6 22.Bh4 Qb3 23.Kxe6 Qe3 24.Bg5 Qd4 25.Bh6 Qa1 26.Kd6 Qa7 27.Bg5 Kg7 28.Bd8 Qa3 29.Bg5 Qe3 30.Ke6 Qe2 31.Bf6+ Kh7 32.Bg5 Qg2 33.Bf6 Qb2 34.Bh4 Qd2 35.Bg5 Qc1 36.Kd5 Qe3 37.Ke6 Qa3 38.Kd5 Kg8 39.Kd6 Kg7 40.Ke6 Qa6+ 41.Kd5 Qa7 42.Bh4 Qa3 43.Ke6 Qa6+ 44.Kd5 Qa7 45.Bg5 Qc7 46.Nc6 Qb6 47.Be7 Kf7 48.Bg5 Qb7 49.Kxc5 Qc8
2 Kc3 78/96 58:11 30 270 211 972 8 668 793 -4,06 1.Kc3 Bxd4+ 2.Kxd4 b2 3.Nxb2 a3 4.Nd3 a2 5.Ne5+ Ke8 6.f4 a1Q+ 7.Kc5 Qa6 8.Kd6 Qc8 9.Be7 c5 10.Bh4 Kf8 11.Bg5 Kg8 12.Bh4 Kh8 13.Be7 Kh7 14.Bg5 g6 15.Bf6 Qa8 16.Kxe6 Qe4 17.Bg5 Qd4 18.Kf6 Qd6+ 19.Kf7 Qc7+ 20.Ke6 Qa5 21.Kf7 Qc3 22.Be7 Qa1 23.Bg5 Qf1 24.Kf6 Qb1 25.Kf7 Qb3 26.Be7 Qb8 27.Bf6 Qg8+ 28.Ke7 Qc8 29.Kf7 Qb8 30.Ke6 Qa8 31.Bg5 Kg8 32.Kd6 Qa3 33.Ke6 Qa6+ 34.Kd5 Qa5 35.Ke6 Kg7 36.Bf6+ Kh6 37.Kf7 Qc7+ 38.Ke6 Qb7 39.Bg5+ Kg7 40.Bf6+ Kg8 41.Be7 Qb6+ 42.Kd5 Kh7 43.Bg5 Kg7 44.Be7 Qc7 45.Bg5 Qa7 46.Nc6 Qa3 47.Ne7 Kf7
3 Nf7 58/10 54:15 38 134 537 393 11 712 703 0,00 1.dxc6 dxc6 2.Bb2 Qh3 3.cxb5 Qd3+ 4.Ka2 Qb3+ 5.Kb1
3 Nf7 58/12 54:28 39 340 619 569 12 035 673 0,00 1.dxc6 dxc6 2.Bb2 Qh3 3.cxb5 Qd3+ 4.Ka2 Qb3+ 5.Ka1 Qd1+ 6.Ka2
3 Nf7 58/21 56:41 41 260 323 358 12 129 313 0,00 1.dxc6 dxc6 2.Bb2 Qh3 3.cxb5 Qd3+ 4.Kc1 Nxb5 5.Qxa4 e3 6.Qa8+ Kd7 7.Qb7+ Nc7 8.Be5 Qd2+ 9.Kb1 Qd1+ 10.Kb2 Qd2+
4 g5 49/72- 54:52 40 456 638 267 12 289 275 -7,42 1.Rd2 Bc4
4 g5 63/13 57:49 30 912 832 628 8 910 284 0,00 1.g5 Qxg5 2.Qxe6 fxe6 3.Rxa2 Qg8 4.Ra5 c4 5.Ra4 Qxe8 6.Rxa6+ Kxa6
4 g5 63/15 56:41 33 352 225 036 9 805 278 0,00 1.g5 Qxg5 2.Qxe6 fxe6 3.Rxa2 Qg8 4.Ra4 b3 5.Ra3 c4 6.Ra4 Qxe8 7.Rxa6+ Kxa6
5 Ng5 66/76 37:57 18 581 932 295 8 158 089 0,00 1.Ng5 Qh8 2.gxh7 Nxg3 3.hxg3 b4 4.a4 Ke7 5.Bg8 Qe5 6.g4 b3+ 7.Bxb3 Qh2 8.Bg8 Qc2 9.Ka3 Qd3+ 10.b3 Qc3 11.Ne4 Qa1+ 12.Kb4 Kf8 13.Nc5 Qe1+ 14.Kb5 Kg7 15.Ne6+ Kh8 16.g5 Qe2+ 17.Kc6 Qf3+ 18.Kb5
5 Ng5 70/18 59:20 33 474 874 353 9 402 243 0,00 1.gxh7 Qh8 2.Ng5 Nxg3 3.hxg3 b4 4.axb4 Ke7 5.Kb1 Qf6 6.Bg8 Qd4 7.Nf7 Qd1+ 8.Ka2 Qa4+ 9.Kb1
5 Ng5 70/34 57:11 32 007 407 622 9 327 986 0,00 1.gxh7 Qh8 2.Ng5 Nxg3 3.hxg3 b4 4.a4 Ke7 5.a5 Kf6 6.Ne4+ Kg6 7.Bg8 Qe5 8.Nc5 Kg7 9.Ne6+ Kh8 10.Nd8 b3+ 11.Kxb3 Qb5+ 12.Kc3 Qxa5+ 13.b4 Qe5+ 14.Kc4 Qe2+ 15.Kc3
6 Ne1+ 60/12 39:27 22 375 285 436 9 452 439 0,00 1.Ne1+ Kc3 2.Ng3 Bd7 3.a6 Bc8 4.a7 Bb7 5.Kg2 Ba8 6.Kf2
6 Ne1+ 60/12 55:34 27 258 505 007 8 174 102 0,00 1.Ne1+ Kc3 2.Ng3 Bd7 3.a6 Bc8 4.a7 Bb7 5.Kg2 Ba8 6.Kf2
6 Ne1+ 63/12 58:51 33 636 319 436 9 525 213 0,00 1.Ne1+ Kc3 2.Ng3 Bd7 3.a6 Bc8 4.a7 Bb7 5.Kg2 Ba8 6.Kf2
peter
Posts: 3187 Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan
Post
by peter » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:39 am
Vinvin wrote: ↑ Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:15 am
After 1 hour (still with Stockfish_180910) :
Code: Select all
1) Rc5xf5 Rc5xf5 * 0 Sec Rc5xf5 * 0 Sec Rc5xf5 * 0 Sec
2) Kd2-c3 Kd2-c3 * 67 Sec Kd2-c3 * 62 Sec Kd2-c3 * 83 Sec
3) Nh8-f7 d5xc6 d5xc6 d5xc6
4) g4-g5 Rb2-d2 g4-g5 * 853 Sec g4-g5 * 1089 Sec
5) Nh3-g5 g6xh7 g6xh7 Nh3-g5 * 0 Sec
6) Ng2-e1 Ng2-e1 * 0 Sec Ng2-e1 * 0 Sec Ng2-e1 * 0 Sec
Eval at the end of the search:
Code: Select all
1 Rxf5 67/12 34:21 23 851 894 156 11 569 356 0,00 1.Rxf5 gxf5 2.Nh6 Nf3+ 3.Qxf3 Qh2+ 4.Qh3 Qf2+ 5.Kh5 Qe2+ 6.Kh4
1 Rxf5 69/12 52:50 36 317 614 347 11 453 629 0,00 1.Rxf5 gxf5 2.Nh6 Nf3+ 3.Qxf3 Qh2+ 4.Qh3 Qf2+ 5.Kh5 Qe2+ 6.Kh4
1 Rxf5 70/14 59:20 43 267 378 177 12 153 672 0,00 1.Rxf5 gxf5 2.Nh6 Nf3+ 3.Qxf3 Qh2+ 4.Qh3 Qf2+ 5.Kh5 Qe2+ 6.Kh4
2 Kc3 75/91 48:48 31 413 016 113 10 727 023 -3,56 1.Kc3 Bxd4+ 2.Kxd4 b2 3.Nxb2 a3 4.Nd3 a2 5.Ne5+ Ke8 6.f4 a1Q+ 7.Kc5 Qa6 8.Kd6 Qc8 9.Be7 c5 10.Bh4 Kf8 11.Be7+ Kg8 12.Bh4 Kh7 13.Bg5 g6 14.Bh4 Kh6 15.Bg5+ Kg7 16.Bh4 Kh7 17.Bg5 Qf8+ 18.Be7 Qb8+ 19.Kxe6 Qc7 20.Bf6 Qa5 21.Be7 Qa3 22.Bf6 Qa6+ 23.Kf7 Qc8 24.Bg5 Qg8+ 25.Ke7 Qb8 26.Ke6 Qa7 27.Kd5 Kg8 28.Kd6 Qa3 29.Ke6 Qb4 30.Kd5 Kh7 31.Ke6 Qa4 32.Be7 Kg8 33.Bh4 Qa8 34.Be7 Qa6+ 35.Kd5 Kh7 36.Bg5 Qa7 37.Ke6 Kg7 38.Kd5 Qa3 39.Ke6 Kg8 40.Kf6 Qa6+ 41.Ke7 Kg7 42.Bh4 Qb6 43.Bg5 Qb4 44.Ke6 Qd2 45.Bf6+ Kh6
2 Kc3 77/97 55:52 42 494 368 054 12 676 432 -3,77 1.Kc3 Bxd4+ 2.Kxd4 b2 3.Nxb2 a3 4.Nd3 a2 5.Ne5+ Ke8 6.f4 a1Q+ 7.Kc5 Qa6 8.Bh4 Qc8 9.Bg5 Qc7 10.Bh4 Kf8 11.Bg5 Kg8 12.Bh4 Kh7 13.Bg5 Qc8 14.Kd6 c5 15.Bh4 Kg8 16.Bg5 Kh8 17.Ng6+ Kh7 18.Ne5 g6 19.Ke7 Kg8 20.Bh4 Qa6 21.Bg5 Qb6 22.Bh4 Qb3 23.Kxe6 Qe3 24.Bg5 Qd4 25.Bh6 Qa1 26.Kd6 Qa7 27.Bg5 Kg7 28.Bd8 Qa3 29.Bg5 Qe3 30.Ke6 Qe2 31.Bf6+ Kh7 32.Bg5 Qg2 33.Bf6 Qb2 34.Bh4 Qd2 35.Bg5 Qc1 36.Kd5 Qe3 37.Ke6 Qa3 38.Kd5 Kg8 39.Kd6 Kg7 40.Ke6 Qa6+ 41.Kd5 Qa7 42.Bh4 Qa3 43.Ke6 Qa6+ 44.Kd5 Qa7 45.Bg5 Qc7 46.Nc6 Qb6 47.Be7 Kf7 48.Bg5 Qb7 49.Kxc5 Qc8
2 Kc3 78/96 58:11 30 270 211 972 8 668 793 -4,06 1.Kc3 Bxd4+ 2.Kxd4 b2 3.Nxb2 a3 4.Nd3 a2 5.Ne5+ Ke8 6.f4 a1Q+ 7.Kc5 Qa6 8.Kd6 Qc8 9.Be7 c5 10.Bh4 Kf8 11.Bg5 Kg8 12.Bh4 Kh8 13.Be7 Kh7 14.Bg5 g6 15.Bf6 Qa8 16.Kxe6 Qe4 17.Bg5 Qd4 18.Kf6 Qd6+ 19.Kf7 Qc7+ 20.Ke6 Qa5 21.Kf7 Qc3 22.Be7 Qa1 23.Bg5 Qf1 24.Kf6 Qb1 25.Kf7 Qb3 26.Be7 Qb8 27.Bf6 Qg8+ 28.Ke7 Qc8 29.Kf7 Qb8 30.Ke6 Qa8 31.Bg5 Kg8 32.Kd6 Qa3 33.Ke6 Qa6+ 34.Kd5 Qa5 35.Ke6 Kg7 36.Bf6+ Kh6 37.Kf7 Qc7+ 38.Ke6 Qb7 39.Bg5+ Kg7 40.Bf6+ Kg8 41.Be7 Qb6+ 42.Kd5 Kh7 43.Bg5 Kg7 44.Be7 Qc7 45.Bg5 Qa7 46.Nc6 Qa3 47.Ne7 Kf7
3 Nf7 58/10 54:15 38 134 537 393 11 712 703 0,00 1.dxc6 dxc6 2.Bb2 Qh3 3.cxb5 Qd3+ 4.Ka2 Qb3+ 5.Kb1
3 Nf7 58/12 54:28 39 340 619 569 12 035 673 0,00 1.dxc6 dxc6 2.Bb2 Qh3 3.cxb5 Qd3+ 4.Ka2 Qb3+ 5.Ka1 Qd1+ 6.Ka2
3 Nf7 58/21 56:41 41 260 323 358 12 129 313 0,00 1.dxc6 dxc6 2.Bb2 Qh3 3.cxb5 Qd3+ 4.Kc1 Nxb5 5.Qxa4 e3 6.Qa8+ Kd7 7.Qb7+ Nc7 8.Be5 Qd2+ 9.Kb1 Qd1+ 10.Kb2 Qd2+
4 g5 49/72- 54:52 40 456 638 267 12 289 275 -7,42 1.Rd2 Bc4
4 g5 63/13 57:49 30 912 832 628 8 910 284 0,00 1.g5 Qxg5 2.Qxe6 fxe6 3.Rxa2 Qg8 4.Ra5 c4 5.Ra4 Qxe8 6.Rxa6+ Kxa6
4 g5 63/15 56:41 33 352 225 036 9 805 278 0,00 1.g5 Qxg5 2.Qxe6 fxe6 3.Rxa2 Qg8 4.Ra4 b3 5.Ra3 c4 6.Ra4 Qxe8 7.Rxa6+ Kxa6
5 Ng5 66/76 37:57 18 581 932 295 8 158 089 0,00 1.Ng5 Qh8 2.gxh7 Nxg3 3.hxg3 b4 4.a4 Ke7 5.Bg8 Qe5 6.g4 b3+ 7.Bxb3 Qh2 8.Bg8 Qc2 9.Ka3 Qd3+ 10.b3 Qc3 11.Ne4 Qa1+ 12.Kb4 Kf8 13.Nc5 Qe1+ 14.Kb5 Kg7 15.Ne6+ Kh8 16.g5 Qe2+ 17.Kc6 Qf3+ 18.Kb5
5 Ng5 70/18 59:20 33 474 874 353 9 402 243 0,00 1.gxh7 Qh8 2.Ng5 Nxg3 3.hxg3 b4 4.axb4 Ke7 5.Kb1 Qf6 6.Bg8 Qd4 7.Nf7 Qd1+ 8.Ka2 Qa4+ 9.Kb1
5 Ng5 70/34 57:11 32 007 407 622 9 327 986 0,00 1.gxh7 Qh8 2.Ng5 Nxg3 3.hxg3 b4 4.a4 Ke7 5.a5 Kf6 6.Ne4+ Kg6 7.Bg8 Qe5 8.Nc5 Kg7 9.Ne6+ Kh8 10.Nd8 b3+ 11.Kxb3 Qb5+ 12.Kc3 Qxa5+ 13.b4 Qe5+ 14.Kc4 Qe2+ 15.Kc3
6 Ne1+ 60/12 39:27 22 375 285 436 9 452 439 0,00 1.Ne1+ Kc3 2.Ng3 Bd7 3.a6 Bc8 4.a7 Bb7 5.Kg2 Ba8 6.Kf2
6 Ne1+ 60/12 55:34 27 258 505 007 8 174 102 0,00 1.Ne1+ Kc3 2.Ng3 Bd7 3.a6 Bc8 4.a7 Bb7 5.Kg2 Ba8 6.Kf2
6 Ne1+ 63/12 58:51 33 636 319 436 9 525 213 0,00 1.Ne1+ Kc3 2.Ng3 Bd7 3.a6 Bc8 4.a7 Bb7 5.Kg2 Ba8 6.Kf2
So still only for Shelter (nr.9) at two of three trials correct solution after one hour.
Thanks again, Vincent.
Peter.
MikeGL
Posts: 1010 Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm
Post
by MikeGL » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:21 pm
In short, this is the toughest problem of this Kornrade Test Suite.
Only one left unsolved.
[d]2k4N/Q1np4/2p2Bpp/1p1P4/pPP1p2P/P7/7q/1K6 w - - 0 1
Not a Null Move problem.
Looks like this is a mobility issue, trapping both Q and K of black with a long term plan of creating a passer for the win.
Sounds like this is the forte of Lc0 and other NN+MCTS engines.
I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.
peter
Posts: 3187 Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan
Post
by peter » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:35 pm
Hi Mike!
MikeGL wrote: ↑ Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:21 pm
In short, this is the toughest problem of this Kornrade Test Suite.
Only one left unsolved.
[d]2k4N/Q1np4/2p2Bpp/1p1P4/pPP1p2P/P7/7q/1K6 w - - 0 1
Not a Null Move problem.
It yet is, as for studies it's called cyclic Zugzwang, what's to be solved here, together with the long way of the King, as for engines this one second criterion is called lazy King eval.
BTW, because you call it the only one unsolved, which of your engines solves nr.4(Detour) and nr.5(Stubbornness) with correct eval?
Nr.12(Shield) is very hard too, but Vincent Lejeune showed at two of three trials correct solution and eval after an hour with SF dev.
Peter.
Dann Corbit
Posts: 12566 Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:57 pm
Location: Redmond, WA USA
Post
by Dann Corbit » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:48 pm
For this position: [d]6k1/1qr1p2p/ppN5/3p1N2/6p1/1P1P2Pp/PP2PP1P/2RK4 w - - computers can find the winning plan, and the score does not change for tens of iterations, but the score is bad. However, the computers would achieve the draw.
Drawing plan found by SF:
Ncxe7+ Kf8 Rxc7 Qxc7 e3 Qe5 Ng6+ hxg6 Nd4 Kf7 a3 Qc7 Kd2 Kf6 Kd1 b5 Kd2 Qe7 Ke2 Qc5 Kd1 Ke5 Kd2 Qf8 Ke2 Qf7 Ke1 Kf6 Kd1 Ke7 Ke2 Kf8 Ke1 Ke8 Ke2 Ke7 Kf1 Kf6 Ke1 Qd7 Kd2 Qc7 Kd1 Ke5 Kd2 b4 a4 Kd6 Kd1 Kd7 Kd2 Qc8 Kd1 Ke7 Kd2 Qf8 Ke1 Kd6 Ke2 Qf7 Ke1 Kc5
Taking ideas is not a vice, it is a virtue. We have another word for this. It is called learning.
But sharing ideas is an even greater virtue. We have another word for this. It is called teaching.
MikeGL
Posts: 1010 Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:49 pm
Post
by MikeGL » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:53 pm
Thanks for the pointers.
Would try those specific ones now, (by cheating)
I mean tweaking some engine settings in case I get lucky
peter wrote: ↑ Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:35 pm
Hi Mike!
MikeGL wrote: ↑ Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:21 pm
In short, this is the toughest problem of this Kornrade Test Suite.
Only one left unsolved.
[d]2k4N/Q1np4/2p2Bpp/1p1P4/pPP1p2P/P7/7q/1K6 w - - 0 1
Not a Null Move problem.
It yet is, as for studies it's called cyclic Zugzwang, what's to be solved here, together with the long way of the King, as for engines this one second criterion is called lazy King eval.
BTW, because you call it the only one unsolved, which of your engines solves nr.4(Detour) and nr.5(Stubbornness) with correct eval?
Nr.12(Shield) is very hard too, but Vincent Lejeune showed at two of three trials correct solution and eval after an hour with SF dev.
I told my wife that a husband is like a fine wine; he gets better with age. The next day, she locked me in the cellar.