Hi Dann!
Dann Corbit wrote: ↑Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:53 pm
Does anyone have a mechanical solution (using computer only, but possibly with forward/backward analysis etc.) for these two:
[d]2bqrr1k/p5b1/1p1p2pp/nPpBp3/P1P1N2P/3PN1P1/R4P1K/3Q1R2 w - -
[d]7q/b1p5/1p1Npkb1/pPP2ppP/P1P5/3B2P1/5P1R/K3R3 w - -
For the Kasparov- Karpov- position there are several moves probably winning, 38.Nc3 having the edge, so I did some FW- BW of some lines and did let CFish at 16MV compute for about 2 hours, pity I don't remember the depths, shouldn't have used Fritz- GUI and instead used English abbrevations, but here's the output:
[d]2bqrr1k/p5b1/1p1p2pp/nPpBp3/P1P1N2P/3PN1P1/R4P1K/3Q1R2 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Cfish 241218 64 POP N:
Code: Select all
1. +- (2.68): 38.Sc3 Kh7 39.Th1 Lb7 40.h5 g5 41.Le4+ Kh8 42.Scd5 Lc8 43.Lg6 Dd7 44.Kg1 Td8 45.g4 Lb7 46.Lf5 De8 47.Th3 Tb8 48.Le4 Dd7 49.Kg2 Dd8 50.Tf3 Dd7 51.Lf5 Dd8 52.Kg1 Tf7 53.Kh2 Tf6 54.Te2 Df8 55.Kg2 Tf7 56.Ta2 Te8 57.Th3 Tb8 58.Le4 Tf4 59.Sxf4 Lxe4+ 60.dxe4 exf4 61.Sf5 Sxc4 62.Dd5 Se5 63.f3
2. +- (2.37): 38.h5 g5 39.g4 Lb7 40.Kg2 Lc8 41.f3 Te7 42.Th1 Tf4 43.Tg1 Tf8 44.Ta3 Tf4 45.Tf1 Te8 46.Sg3 Ld7 47.De2 Tef8 48.Kg1 Lc8 49.Se4 Te8 50.Tf2 Dc7 51.Kg2 Tef8 52.Dd1 Dd8 53.Kg1 Dd7 54.Tf1 Td8 55.Kg2 Dc7 56.De2 Ld7 57.Tf2 Tff8 58.Dd1 Tf4 59.Kg1 Lc8 60.Taa2 De7 61.Kg2 Tff8 62.Ta3 Tde8
3. +- (2.37): 38.Kg1 Dd7 39.g4 Lb7 40.f3 Lc8 41.h5 g5 42.Ta3 Tf4 43.Dc2 Dc7 44.Ta2 Tef8 45.Dd1 Te8 46.Kh2 Dd8 47.Kg2 Tff8 48.Ta3 Te7 49.Sc3 Tc7 50.Kg1 Te7 51.Le4 Le6 52.Kg2 Tc7 53.De2 De8 54.Ld5 Lc8 55.Se4 Dd8 56.Sg3 Te7 57.Te1 Tc7 58.Sgf5 Tf6 59.Dd1 Tf8 60.Dc2 Tf6 61.De2 Tf8 62.Sg3 Tf6 63.Dd1
4. +- (2.37): 38.Kg2 Dd7 39.h5 g5 40.g4 Dd8 41.f3 Te7 42.Th1 Tf4 43.Tg1 Tf8 44.Ta3 Tf4 45.Tf1 Te8 46.Sg3 Ld7 47.De2 Tef8 48.Kg1 Lc8 49.Se4 Te8 50.Tf2 Dc7 51.Kg2 Tef8 52.Dd1 Dd8 53.Kg1 Dd7 54.Tf1 Td8 55.Kg2 Dc7 56.De2 Ld7 57.Kg1 Te8 58.Kh2 Td8 59.Sg3 Lc8 60.Kg2 Tff8 61.Dd1 Tde8 62.Sgf5 Dd7
5. +- (2.37): 38.Th1 Dd7 39.Kg2 Te7 40.h5 g5 41.g4 Dd8 42.Te1 Dd7 43.Sg3 Dc7 44.Sgf5 Tee8 45.Kg1 Dd8 46.Le4 Tf7 47.Sd5 Tef8 48.Sfe3 Lb7 49.Lf5 Da8 50.Lg6 Tf4 51.Le4 T4f7 52.Tf1 Dd8 53.Lg6 Tf3 54.Kg2 Lc8 55.Le4 T3f7 56.f3 Le6 57.Ta3 Tb7 58.Sc3 Tc7 59.Ld5 Lc8 60.Te1 Te7 61.De2 Ld7 62.Se4 Dc7 63.Th1 Db8 64.Tf1 Dc7
6. +- (2.37): 38.Td2 Dd7 39.h5 g5 40.Ta2 Td8 41.g4 Lb7 42.f3 Lc8 43.Ta3 Tf4 44.Kg2 Dc7 45.De2 Ld7 46.Kg1 Te8 47.Sg3 Tff8 48.Sgf5 Lc8 49.Kg2 Dd8 50.Kh1 Dd7 51.Sg3 Dc7 52.Kg2 Ld7 53.Se4 Lc8 54.Kh2 Tf4 55.Dg2 Td8 56.Kg1 Ld7 57.Dd2 Te8 58.De2 Td8 59.Dd1 Tff8 60.Kg2 Lc8 61.Ta2 De7 62.Kg1 Tde8 63.Kh1 Dd8 64.Kg2
7. +- (2.37): 38.Kh1 De7 39.h5 g5 40.g4 Tf4 41.f3 Tff8 42.Kh2 Ld7 43.Kg2 Tf4 44.Sg3 Dd8 45.Le4 Le6 46.Ta3 Tef8 47.Ld5 Ld7 48.Se4 Dc7 49.Ta2 Lc8 50.Kg1 Te8 51.Kh2 Dd8 52.Kg2 Tff8 53.Ta3 Te7 54.Sc3 Tc7 55.Te1 Te7 56.De2 Ld7 57.Se4 Dc7 58.Th1 Db8 59.Tf1 Dc7 60.Kg1 Tee8 61.Tf2 Db8 62.Kg2 Lc8 63.Kh1
8. +- (2.37): 38.Te2 Dd7 39.h5 g5 40.Ta2 Td8 41.g4 Lb7 42.f3 Lc8 43.Ta3 Tf4 44.Kg2 Dc7 45.De2 Ld7 46.Kg1 Te8 47.Sg3 Tff8 48.Sgf5 Lc8 49.Kg2 Dd8 50.Kh1 Dd7 51.Sg3 Dc7 52.Kg2 Ld7 53.Se4 Lc8 54.Kh2 Tf4 55.Dg2 Td8 56.Kg1 Ld7 57.Dd2 Te8 58.De2 Td8 59.Dd1 Tff8 60.Kg2 Lc8 61.Ta2 De7 62.Kg1 Tde8 63.Tff2 Td8
9. +- (2.37): 38.Te1 Dd7 39.h5 g5 40.Tf1 Td8 41.g4 Lb7 42.f3 Lc8 43.Ta3 Tf4 44.Kg2 Dc7 45.De2 Ld7 46.Kg1 Te8 47.Sg3 Tff8 48.Sgf5 Lc8 49.Kg2 Dd8 50.Kh1 Dd7 51.Sg3 Dc7 52.Kg2 Ld7 53.Se4 Lc8 54.Kh2 Tf4 55.Dg2 Td8 56.Kg1 Ld7 57.Dd2 Te8 58.De2 Td8 59.Dd1 Tff8 60.Kg2 Lc8 61.Ta2 De7 62.Kg1 Tde8 63.Th2 Dd8
10. +- (2.37): 38.Tb2 Dd7 39.h5 g5 40.Ta2 Td8 41.g4 Lb7 42.f3 Lc8 43.Ta3 Tf4 44.Kg2 Dc7 45.De2 Ld7 46.Kg1 Te8 47.Sg3 Tff8 48.Sgf5 Lc8 49.Kg2 Dd8 50.Kh1 Dd7 51.Sg3 Dc7 52.Kg2 Ld7 53.Se4 Lc8 54.Kh2 Tf4 55.Dg2 Td8 56.Kg1 Ld7 57.Dd2 Te8 58.De2 Td8 59.Dd1 Tff8 60.Kg2 Lc8 61.Ta2 De7 62.Kg1 Tde8 63.Ta3
11. +- (2.37): 38.Sg2 Dd7 39.h5 g5 40.Se3 Td8 41.g4 Lb7 42.f3 Lc8 43.Ta3 Tf4 44.Kg2 Dc7 45.De2 Ld7 46.Kg1 Te8 47.Sg3 Tff8 48.Sgf5 Lc8 49.Kg2 Dd8 50.Kh1 Dd7 51.Sg3 Dc7 52.Kg2 Ld7 53.Se4 Lc8 54.Kh2 Tf4 55.Dg2 Td8 56.Kg1 Ld7 57.Dd2 Te8 58.De2 Td8 59.Dd1 Tff8 60.Kg2 Lc8 61.Ta2 De7 62.Kg1 Tde8 63.Ta3
12. +- (2.37): 38.Ta1 Te7 39.h5 g5 40.Ta2 Dd7 41.Kg1 Sb7 42.g4 Dd8 43.Te1 Tf4 44.f3 Sa5 45.Kg2 Te8 46.Tf1 Tff8 47.Ta3 Te7 48.Sc3 Tc7 49.Te1 Te7 50.De2 Ld7 51.Se4 Dc7 52.Th1 Db8 53.Tf1 Dc7 54.Kg1 Tee8 55.Tf2 Db8 56.Kg2 Tf4 57.Dd1 Tef8 58.Tf1 Te8 59.Kg1 Tff8 60.Sg3 Tf6 61.De2 Tff8 62.Sgf5 Lxf5 63.Sxf5
13. +- (2.37): 38.Ta3 Dd7 39.h5 g5 40.g4 Lb7 41.f3 Te7 42.De2 Lc8 43.Kg1 Dd8 44.Te1 Tf4 45.Sc3 Tf8 46.Kg2 Ld7 47.Se4 Dc7 48.Th1 Db8 49.Tf1 Dc7 50.Kg1 Tee8 51.Tf2 Db8 52.Kg2 Tf4 53.Dd1 Tef8 54.Tf1 Te8 55.Kg1 Tff8 56.Sg3 Tf6 57.De2 Tff8 58.Sgf5 Tf6 59.Kg2 Tff8 60.Te1 Dc7 61.Kh2 Lc8 62.Tf1 Ld7 63.Kg1 Lc8
14. +- (2.37): 38.Db1 Dd7 39.h5 g5 40.Dd1 Td8 41.g4 Lb7 42.f3 Lc8 43.Ta3 Tf4 44.Kg2 Dc7 45.De2 Ld7 46.Kg1 Te8 47.Sg3 Tff8 48.Sgf5 Lc8 49.Kg2 Dd8 50.Kh1 Dd7 51.Sg3 Dc7 52.Kg2 Ld7 53.Se4 Lc8 54.Kh2 Tf4 55.Dg2 Td8 56.Kg1 Ld7 57.Dd2 Te8 58.De2 Td8 59.Dd1 Tff8 60.Kg2 Lc8 61.Ta2 De7 62.Te2 Le6 63.Lxe6 Dxe6 64.Sd5
15. +- (2.37): 38.f3 Dd7 39.g4 Dd8 40.Kg1 Tf4 41.h5 g5 42.Te1 Tef8 43.Kg2 Ld7 44.Tf1 Dc7 45.Kh1 Te8 46.Taf2 Tff8 47.Kh2 Tf4 48.Kg1 Tb8 49.Ta2 Tff8 50.Tff2 Tbd8 51.Ta3 Tf4 52.Tf1 Tff8 53.Kg2 Lc8 54.Ta2 De7 55.Sg3 Dc7 56.Sgf5 Tde8 57.Th1 Ld7 58.Te1 Lc8 59.Tf2 Dd8 60.Tef1 Tf6 61.Sg3 Tff8 62.Se4 Tf4 63.Ta2
16. +- (2.37): 38.Sd2 Dd7 39.Le4 Dh3+ 40.Kg1 De6 41.h5 g5 42.g4 Td8 43.Ld5 Dd7 44.Se4 Tf4 45.f3 De7 46.Kg2 Tff8 47.Te2 Tde8 48.Tef2 Td8 49.Ta2 Dd7 50.Te1 De7 51.Sg3 Dc7 52.Sgf5 Tde8 53.Tf2 Db8 54.Tee2 Dc7 55.Kg1 Dd7 56.Kh2 Dc7 57.Tf1 Tf6 58.Sg3 Tef8 59.Ta2 Tf4 60.Se4 Te8 61.Ta3 Ld7 62.Kg2 Lc8 63.Tf2
And here is, what I've stored about the game in my database:
[pgn]
[Event "World Championship 34th-KK4 VL CCC 38."]
[Site "Sevilla"]
[Date "1987.??.??"]
[Round "8"]
[White "Kasparov, Gary"]
[Black "Karpov, Anatoly"]
[Result "1-0"]
[ECO "A36"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2000"]
[Annotator "Martan,Peter"]
[PlyCount "99"]
[EventDate "1987.??.??"]
[TimeControl "60"]
1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 d6 3. g3 c5 4. Bg2 Nc6 5. a3 g6 6. b4 Bg7 7. Rb1 Nge7 8. e3 O-O
9. d3 Rb8 10. Nge2 Be6 11. b5 Na5 12. Bd2 b6 13. O-O Nb7 14. e4 Kh8 15. Qc1 f5
16. Bg5 Qe8 17. Bxe7 Qxe7 18. exf5 Bxf5 19. Nd5 Qd7 20. Qd2 Na5 21. Nec3 Rbe8
22. Ne4 Nb7 23. a4 Na5 24. h4 Nb7 25. Kh2 Rb8 26. Ra1 Na5 27. Ra3 Rf7 28. Qc3
Rd8 29. Ra2 Bh6 30. Ng5 Rff8 31. Re2 Bg7 32. Qc2 Rde8 33. Ne3 Bh6 34. Bd5 Bg7
35. Qd1 h6 36. Ne4 Qd8 37. Ra2 Bc8 38. Nc3 (38. h5 $5 g5 39. g4 Qe7 40. Kg1 Rf4
41. f3 Rff8 42. Ng3 Qd8 43. Kg2 Bd7 44. Kh1 Bc8 45. Nef5 Kh7 {[%eval 125,37] SE
}) (38. Kg1 $6 Qe7 (38... Re7 39. Nc3 Qe8 40. Be4 Bf5 41. Kg2 h5 42. Nxf5 gxf5
43. Bf3 {[%eval 154,39]}) 39. Nc3 Bh3 (39... Rd8 40. Be4 Qe6 41. Ncd5 {[%eval
179,35]}) 40. Bg2 Bxg2 41. Kxg2 e4 42. Nxe4 Nxc4 43. Nxc4 d5 44. Ned6 Rd8 45.
Re2 {[%eval 158,33]}) 38... h5 (38... e4 39. Nxe4 Qd7 (39... Bd4 {[%eval 254,
32]}) 40. Rh1 Bd4 41. Re2 Re5 (41... Qe7 {[%eval 220,30]}) 42. Kg2 $1 {[%eval
240,31]} (42. Qf1 $2 {Mike Liban} Rh5 $6 (42... Bxe3 {[%eval 118,31]}) 43. Qg2
$2 (43. Qd1 {[%eval 243,30]}) 43... g5 44. Kg1 g4 45. Qf1 Bb7 $6 (45... Bxe3 {
[%eval 140,31]}) 46. Bxb7 Nxb7 47. Nd5 (47. Qd1 {[%eval 164,33]}) 47... Nd8 48.
Qd1 Rhf5 49. a5 bxa5 50. Ra2 Rf3 51. Kg2 Qh7 52. Re1 {[%eval 0,38]}) 42... h5 (
42... Ree8 {[%eval 285,32]}) 43. f4 Re7 44. Ree1 Kg7 45. Nc2 Bf6 46. Nxf6 Rxf6
47. Rxe7+ Qxe7 48. Re1 Be6 49. Ne3 Qf8 50. Re2 {[%eval 527,32]}) (38... Qf6 39.
Be4 Rd8 40. Ncd5 Qe6 41. Kg1 $1 (41. h5 $2 g5 {[%eval 133,34]}) (41. Re2 Rd7
42. Kg1 {[%eval 181,34]} Rdf7 43. f4 {[%eval 210,34] thematische ZUS}) (41. Kg2
$6 h5 42. Kg1 {3Eck} Bb7 43. Re2 {[%eval 181,31]}) 41... Bb7 42. Re2 Rf7 (42...
Rd7 43. f4 {[%eval 246,31]}) 43. f4 Nxc4 44. dxc4 exf4 45. Nc2 Qg4 46. Qd3 Bxd5
47. Bxd5 Rff8 48. Re4 Qxg3+ 49. Qxg3 fxg3 50. Rg4 {[%eval 369,34]}) (38... Qd7
39. Be4 Qf7 (39... Qe6 40. Ncd5 Rf7 (40... Rd8 41. f3 Rg8 (41... Qh3+ 42. Kg1
Bb7 43. h5 {[%eval 406,30]} (43. Rh2 {VL})) 42. Kg1 {[%eval 210,30]}) 41. h5 {
[%eval 195,34]}) 40. Ncd5 Bf5 41. h5 Bxe4 42. dxe4 g5 43. Rd2 (43. Kg2 Kh7 44.
Ra3 Rd8 45. Qe2 Qe6 46. Rd1 Rd7 47. Rc3 {[%eval 200,44]} (47. Nf5 {VL})) 43...
Qd7 44. Kg2 Rf7 45. Rh1 {[%eval 200,42]}) (38... Qe7 39. Be4 Qe6 (39... Bf5 40.
Ncd5 {[%eval 199,31]}) 40. Ncd5 Rf7 41. h5 {[%eval 196,36]} (41. f3 {VL})) (
38... Kh7 39. Be4 Bf5 40. Kg2 Qd7 41. h5 Bxe4+ 42. dxe4 Qf7 43. Rh1 g5 44. Ncd5
Rd8 45. Rf1 {[%eval 343,45]}) 39. Be4 Re6 40. Ncd5 $6 (40. f3 $1 Bh6 (40... Bb7
41. Rg2 {[%eval 206,31]}) (40... g5 41. Bf5 {[%eval 216,30]}) 41. Ned5 Kg7 (
41... Bb7 42. Rg2 {[%eval 225,30]} Kg7 (42... Rf7 43. Kh1 Bg7 {[%eval 252,30]}
(43... Rf8 $2 {LT} 44. f4 {[%eval 400,40]} exf4 45. gxf4 Rg8 (45... Bxd5 46.
Nxd5 Rg8 (46... Nxc4 47. Bxg6 Qxh4+ 48. Rh2 Qg4 49. Qxg4 hxg4 50. Rxh6+ {
[%eval 666,36]}) 47. Qf3 Nb3 48. Qh3 Nd4 49. Rfg1 Rg7 50. Bxg6 {[%eval 666,40]}
) (45... Nxc4 46. dxc4 Bxd5 47. cxd5 {[%eval 601,34]} (47. cxd5 {[%eval 601,34]
})) 46. f5 Bxd5 (46... Re5 47. f6 Bc8 (47... Qd7 $2 48. f7 {[%eval 1468,26]}) (
47... Qf8 48. Bxg6 {[%eval 806,32]}) (47... Bxd5 48. Bxd5 {[%eval 836,28]}) 48.
f7 Rf8 49. Rf6 Bg7 50. Rgxg6 {[%eval 804,37]}) (46... gxf5 47. Bxf5 Rxg2 48.
Kxg2 Qg8+ 49. Kh2 Qf7 50. Bxe6 {[%eval 818,31]}) 47. Bxd5 Re3 48. f6 Rh3+ (
48... Nxc4 49. Bxc4) 49. Rh2 Rxh2+ (49... Qc8 50. Bxg8) 50. Kxh2 {[%eval 762,
42]} Rf8 {[%eval 757,45]}) (43... Rg7 44. f4 exf4 45. gxf4 Bc8 46. Rgf2 Rg8 47.
f5 Re5 48. f6 Bg4 49. Qc2 Qd7 50. Ne7 {[%eval 568,32]}) 44. g4 Qxh4+ 45. Rh2 {
[%eval 372,35]}) 43. Kh1 {[%eval 247,38]} Ree8 44. g4 Qxh4+ 45. Rh2 Qd8 46. Rg1
Re6 (46... Bf4 47. Nxf4 Rxf4 48. gxh5 g5 49. Bxb7 Nxb7 50. Ne4 {[%eval 406,33]}
) 47. g5 $1 (47. gxh5 $6 g5 {[%eval 221,33]}) (47. Rgg2 $6 Kg8 (47... Rf7 48.
Rh3 {[%eval 328,30]}) (47... Kf7 48. gxh5 {[%eval 348,31]}) (47... Bf4 48. Nxf4
Rxf4 49. Nd5) 48. gxh5 g5 49. Ne3 Kg7 50. Ng4 {[%eval 336,30]}) 47... Bxg5 (
47... Rg8 48. gxh6+ {[%eval 859,33]}) 48. Rhg2 Bf4 (48... Rf4 49. Nxf4 {[%eval
729,33]}) (48... Bxd5 49. cxd5 {[%eval 720,35]}) 49. Rxg6+ Rxg6 (49... Kh8 50.
Qe1 {[%eval 775,33]}) 50. Rxg6+ {[%eval 777,41]}) (41... Bd7 42. Raf2 {[%eval
205,31]}) 42. Rg2 Bd7 (42... Rg8 {[%eval 215,32]}) (42... Ree8 {[%eval 213,33]}
) 43. Rh1 Kh8 44. g4 {[%eval 224,33]}) 40... Bh6 41. Ng2 $6 (41. f3 Bxe3 (41...
Kg7 42. Raf2 {[%eval 131,33]}) 42. Nxe3 {[%eval 124,33]}) 41... Kg7 $2 (41...
Bb7 {[%eval 79,42]}) 42. f4 exf4 43. Ngxf4 Re5 44. Nxg6 Rxf1 45. Qxf1 Rxe4 46.
dxe4 Kxg6 47. Rf2 Qe8 48. e5 dxe5 49. Rf6+ Kg7 50. Rd6 1-0
[/pgn]
And as for the second one, which is Mihai Neghina's study "Detour", only Sting is able to solve more or less from the starting position, for Backward of author's solution I took komodo with switched off nullmove, which can use more hash (8G max. for Sting), and therefore is better here to keep longer lines in hash at Backward more easily:
[d]7q/b1p5/1p1Npkb1/pPP2ppP/P1P5/3B2P1/5P1R/K3R3 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Komodo 12.3 64-bit:
1.hxg6 Qxh2 2.Rxe6+ Kxe6 3.g7 Qh1+ 4.Kb2 Qa8 5.Bxf5+ Kf6 6.Nc8 Kxg7 7.c6 Bb8 8.Kc3 Ba7 9.Bd7 Bb8 10.f3 Kg6 11.Kd4 Kf6 12.Bg4 Ba7 13.f4 Bb8 14.Ke4 Ba7 15.Ke3 Kg6 16.Kd4 Kf6 17.Bd7 Bb8 18.Ke4 Ba7 19.Bf5 Qb8
+- (9.79) Depth: 27 00:03:11 5265MN
As for Sting, with some FW- BW it would do even better of course, especially for the winning eval, more hash would help much I guess (8G max.), but i wanted to show the exceptional abiltiy to get the King's march into output from starting position at all, no other engine get's that without FW- BW, lazy King's eval and almost no nullmove- usage might be the matter here most.
[d]7q/b1p5/1p1Npkb1/pPP2ppP/P1P5/3B2P1/5P1R/K3R3 w - - 0 1
Analysis by Sting 11.5 based on Stockfish 2.1.1 64bit:
1.hxg6 Qxh2 2.Rxe6+ Kxe6 3.g7 Qh1+ 4.Kb2 Qa8 5.Bxf5+ Kf6 6.Nc8 Kxg7 7.c6 Kf6 8.Bd7 Ke5 9.f3 Kd4 10.f4 gxf4 11.gxf4 Qb8 12.Be6 Ke4 13.f5 Ke5 14.Kc3 Qa8 15.Kd3 Qb8 16.Ke3 Kf6 17.Ke4 Qa8 18.Kd4 Qb8 19.Kd5 Qa8 20.Ke4 Qb8 21.Kf3 Ke5 22.Kg2 Kf6 23.Kg3 Ke5 24.Kf3
+/= (0.32) Depth: 37 00:12:09 11766MN
Peter.