Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:03 am
I was just wondering how much would Houdini 6 64 would improve if somebody make a SF Net NNUE to work with it ?
+180 Elo. Ethereal is nearly equal to Houdini 6; Ethereal gains +180 elo with an SF Network.
In that case if Ethereal was equal to Houdini 6 and gained another +180 elo with the addition of SF Network it should be in the top 4 or 5 engines, congratulations
Note: So who will test all these NN engines including Tornado which I do NOT see here
Its already in the top 4 or 5 engines. Houdini and Fire are clones.
Stockfish, Komodo, Ethereal, Leela. Top 4 engines, in no particular order.
So this rating was taken before the NN addition which Houdini is listed on top of ethereal, if Houdini 6 is a clone CCRL and TCEC should stop testing them http://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/
Indeed. Both Fire and Houdini are no longer in TCEC; although NOT because they are proven clones, but because they are "no longer updated". TCEC refused to take a stance on the issue, like cowards. Although, to be fair to TCEC, CCC is also cowardly. As is CCRL. As is FastGM. As are many more.
I used to refer to CCRL as the creme of the crop for engine rating lists. I have since stopped following them, and now look mostly at FastGM's rating lists. Nothing is ever "perfect", but I cannot respect someone who lets Houdart or Norman benefit from blatant copyright violations. I hope one day CCRL will have the stones to not only flag those engines as clones, but remove them outright. Of course, CCRL is not the only people using the stolen engine.
I was very adamant in talks with chesscom that Fire and Houdini should NEVER compete in any event, either rated or testing, ever again. But no one seems to share my passion on the subject -- not even those whom have been wrong (Stockfish et all, Komodo et all) --, except for Alayan.
The fact that Chessbase is big operator in chess and selling Houdini might be one of the reasons for this illogical situation.
If a non ethical situation stales it's often because of money or economical interests.
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:03 am
I was just wondering how much would Houdini 6 64 would improve if somebody make a SF Net NNUE to work with it ?
+180 Elo. Ethereal is nearly equal to Houdini 6; Ethereal gains +180 elo with an SF Network.
Where is the exe file hiding when you unzip the Ethereal, I can NOT find it anywhere, need help
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:03 am
I was just wondering how much would Houdini 6 64 would improve if somebody make a SF Net NNUE to work with it ?
+180 Elo. Ethereal is nearly equal to Houdini 6; Ethereal gains +180 elo with an SF Network.
Where is the exe file hiding when you unzip the Ethereal, I can NOT find it anywhere, need help
Pedone 2.1 Now has its own NNUE, not simply implemented by replacing SF NNUE
"Yes Pedone is now using NNUE. I have implemented my own network with included castle rights and with independent weights for the both sides.
For the training I have used 14 depth search score of Pedone with traditional evaluation and I have used a simple SGD to train the net.
I'm not an expert on NN but I have found on the net a lot of material that have helped the development.
I also have a discussion with Marco Belli and we have helped each other in implementing NNUE."
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:59 pm
Pedone 2.1 Now has its own NNUE, not simply implemented by replacing SF NNUE
"Yes Pedone is now using NNUE. I have implemented my own network with included castle rights and with independent weights for the both sides.
For the training I have used 14 depth search score of Pedone with traditional evaluation and I have used a simple SGD to train the net.
I'm not an expert on NN but I have found on the net a lot of material that have helped the development.
I also have a discussion with Marco Belli and we have helped each other in implementing NNUE."
Pedone 2.1 does not have its own NNUE, as stated in the first post of the Pedone 2.1 thread; instead it is the last version of Pedone that does not have NNUE. All future versions of Pedone have NNUE, such as the dev verson of Pedone playing at TCEC, which was the version I was asking about.
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:34 pm
So this rating was taken before the NN addition which Houdini is listed on top of ethereal, if Houdini 6 is a clone CCRL and TCEC should stop testing them http://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/
Houdini hasn't been a part of TCEC since Season 17, around the time that Houdini 5 and 6 were discovered to be Stockfish clones.
CCRL is an unreliable ratings list; they commonly remove other engines and put them on their 'CCRL Kill List' but don't bother to remove illegal GPL-violating Stockfish clones such as Houdini and Fire, put engines tested on 1 CPU, 2 CPUs, 4 CPUS, and 8 CPUs on the same list, test engines on different hardware strengths (i.e. Ethereal 12.75 in the 40/2 list is tested only on 8 CPU, and not on 1 CPU like other engines), and test engines by putting them against different opponents of different strengths, making the ratings list a reflection of the strength of the opponents in testing, rather than the strength of the engine itself.
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:59 pm
Pedone xxx or whatever Now has its own NNUE, not simply implemented by replacing SF NNUE
"Yes Pedone is now using NNUE. I have implemented my own network with included castle rights and with independent weights for the both sides.
For the training I have used 14 depth search score of Pedone with traditional evaluation and I have used a simple SGD to train the net.
I'm not an expert on NN but I have found on the net a lot of material that have helped the development.
I also have a discussion with Marco Belli and we have helped each other in implementing NNUE."
Pedone 2.1 does not have its own NNUE, as stated in the first post of the Pedone 2.1 thread; instead it is the last version of Pedone that does not have NNUE. All future versions of Pedone have NNUE, such as the dev verson of Pedone playing at TCEC, which was the version I was asking about.
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:59 pm
Pedone xxx or whatever Now has its own NNUE, not simply implemented by replacing SF NNUE
"Yes Pedone is now using NNUE. I have implemented my own network with included castle rights and with independent weights for the both sides.
For the training I have used 14 depth search score of Pedone with traditional evaluation and I have used a simple SGD to train the net.
I'm not an expert on NN but I have found on the net a lot of material that have helped the development.
I also have a discussion with Marco Belli and we have helped each other in implementing NNUE."
Pedone 2.1 does not have its own NNUE, as stated in the first post of the Pedone 2.1 thread; instead it is the last version of Pedone that does not have NNUE. All future versions of Pedone have NNUE, such as the dev verson of Pedone playing at TCEC, which was the version I was asking about.
You need to start using quotes properly. you asked me a question earlier, but you quoted yourself as having already asked it, so I did not answer it.
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 10:03 am
I was just wondering how much would Houdini 6 64 would improve if somebody make a SF Net NNUE to work with it ?
+180 Elo. Ethereal is nearly equal to Houdini 6; Ethereal gains +180 elo with an SF Network.
In that case if Ethereal was equal to Houdini 6 and gained another +180 elo with the addition of SF Network it should be in the top 4 or 5 engines, congratulations
Note: So who will test all these NN engines including Tornado which I do NOT see here
Its already in the top 4 or 5 engines. Houdini and Fire are clones.
Stockfish, Komodo, Ethereal, Leela. Top 4 engines, in no particular order.
