A questionable position

[Hobacle]

Something tells me, you know quite well, that and how White can, don't you?

I know "how", but I don't know whether.

And I found it not the position I wanted... After 1. Ke3 h4 2. Ke2 h3 3. Ke1!(3. Bd5 h2 4. Bh1 f4 5. Kf3 Kf1 6. Kxf4 Qxh6!) h2 4. Bh1!, White wins.

[d]6bn/5pPq/5PpB/5pPp/5k1K/8/2B5/8 w - - 0 1

This one, how about?

[Hobacle]

[d]6bn/5pPq/5PpB/5pPp/5k1K/8/2B5/8 w - - 0 1

This one, how about?

Not that... 1. Bd1 Qxh6 -+

[d]6bn/5pPq/5PpB/5pPp/8/6k1/8/1B5K w - - 0 1
How about this position?

[Dann Corbit]

Since black can get his king to g4 or g3 he can put on his trousers and white is the one in big trouble.
Being something of a coward, I would accept a draw as white.

[Dann Corbit]

Something tells me, you know quite well, that and how White can, don't you?

I know "how", but I don't know whether.

And I found it not the position I wanted... After 1. Ke3 h4 2. Ke2 h3 3. Ke1!(3. Bd5 h2 4. Bh1 f4 5. Kf3 Kf1 6. Kxf4 Qxh6!) h2 4. Bh1!, White wins.

[d]6bn/5pPq/5PpB/5pPp/5k1K/8/2B5/8 w - - 0 1

This one, how about?

Not sure about that position, but here in mirrorland, we can force at least a draw two ways:
[d]nb6/qPp5/BpP5/pPp5/K1k5/8/5B2/8 w - -
nb6/qPp5/BpP5/pPp5/K1k5/8/5B2/8 w - - ce 0; pv Ka3 Kc3 Bg3 c4 Be1+ Kc2 Bh4 c3 Ka2 Kd2 Bg5+ Kc2 Bf6 Kd3 Bg5 Kc2;
nb6/qPp5/BpP5/pPp5/K1k5/8/5B2/8 w - - ce 0; pv Bg3 Kc3 Be5+ Kc2 Ba1 Kd3 Be5 c4 Ka3 Kc2 Ka4 c3 Ka3 Kd2 Bg7 c2 Bh6+ Kd1 Kb2 a4 Bg5 a3+ Kxa3 c1=R Bxc1 Kxc1

Not sure how things are on the other side of the looking glass, and I have no idea how to capture a pawn without losing the bishop.

[Hobacle]

[d]6bn/5pPq/5PpB/5pPp/5k1K/8/2B5/8 w - - 0 1

This one, how about?

Not sure about that position, but here in mirrorland, we can force at least a draw two ways

Yes, White can get a draw here, but has no opportunity to win. That's why I posted the third one.

[peter]

[d]6bn/5pPq/5PpB/5pPp/8/6k1/8/1B5K w - - 0 1
How about this position?

These are all just variations to the same theme. Please give a winning line without unforced Pawn- moves and let's stick to this one position and line then.
Neither such like these from here

http://talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.p ... 83#p891783

nor mine after unforced Pawn- moves convince me of a correct starting position, where the King can espape still at least fo a while.
No other positions, when Black's already in zugzwang help with the one(s) in question.
Here e.g. it's just too easy again too of course:

[d]6bn/5pPq/5PpB/5pPp/8/4K3/5B2/5k2 w - - 0 1

[Spliffjiffer]

i mean: if 2...Ke1 3.Bg2 and now f4?/h4? its over but if 3...Kd1 the king is cut off...i played 4.Kf2 and i think its just a matter of time to get the black king "stalemated", no?

Yes with 3...f4 (?) or ...h4(?), but it's still a matter of how much time (DTM) and as long as I don't have such a forced mating line I'm not fully sure, if Black can't escape yet still. As for a study, that isn't a mate in x- problem, DTM doesn't really matter, for the engines it does.
That's the problem with positions, if you can't "convince" the engines of your human eval, at least to me then there's always some work to be done still.

Till tomorrow (today) regards

the problem was harder than i thought yesterday...ill give black the shot like this this:
surely not all white moves are perfectly choosen but my maingoal was to find the best moves for black...pretty sure that black is hopelessly lost !?



[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.05.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hobacle, Can"]
[Black "White, Win?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "6bn/5pPq/5PpB/5pPp/5K2/5B2/8/6k1 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "99"]

1. Ke3 Kf1 2. Bd5 Ke1 3. Bg2 Kd1 4. Bf1 Kc2 5. Ba6 Kc3 6. Bd3 Kb3 7. Kd2
Kb4 8. Ba6 Kc5 9. Kd3 Kd5 10. Bb7+ Kc5 11. Kc3 Kb5 12. Bd5 Kc5 13. Bc4 Kb6
14. Kd4 Ka5 15. Kc5 Ka4 16. Bd5 Ka3 17. Kc4 Kb2 18. Kd3 Ka3 19. Kc3 Ka4 20.
Bc6+ Ka5 21. Be8 Kb6 22. Kb4 Ka6 23. Kc5 Ka7 24. Ba4 Kb7 25. Bb5 Kc7 26.
Bc6 h4 27. Bg2 Kd7 28. Bf3 Kc7 29. Bc6 h3 30. Bh1 h2 31. Bd5 Kd7 32. Kd4
Kd6 33. Ba8 Kd7 34. Ke3 Kd6 35. Kf2 Ke5 36. Kg3 Kd4 37. Kxh2 Ke3 38. Kg3
Ke2 39. Bf3+ Ke3 40. Kg2 Kd2 41. Kf2 Kd3 42. Bc6 Kd2 43. Bb5 Kc3 44. Ke3
Kc2 45. Bf1 Kc3 46. Bd3 Kb4 47. Kd2 Kc5 48. Kc3 Kd5 49. Bc2 Ke5 50. Kd3 Kd5
51. Bb3+ Ke5 52. Ke3 Kd6 53. Kd4 Kc6 54. Ba4+ Kd6 55. Bb5 Ke6 56. Bc4+ Kd6
57. Bd5 Kc7 58. Kc5 Kd7 59. Bb3 Kc7 60. Ba4 Kb7 61. Bb5 Kc7 62. Bc6 f4 63.
Bf3 Kd7 64. Kd5 Kc7 65. Ke5 Kb6 66. Kxf4 Kc5 67. Ke3 Kc4 68. Be2+ Kc3 69.
Bd3 Kb4 70. Kd4 Kb3 71. Be4 Kb4 72. Bc2 Kb5 73. Bb3 Kb4 74. Bc4 Ka5 75. Kc5
Ka4 76. Bd5 Ka3 77. Kc4 Kb2 78. Kd3 Ka3 79. Kc3 Ka4 80. Bc6+ Ka5 81. Be8
Kb6 82. Kd4 Ka6 83. Kc5 Ka7 84. Kb5 Kb7 85. Bc6+ Kc7 86. Kc5 Kb8 87. Kb6
Kc8 88. Ba4 Kb8 89. Bd7 Ka8 90. Bc6+ Kb8 91. Bb7 Qxg7 92. Bxg7 Bh7 93. Bf8
Bg8 94. Bd6# [/pgn]

[peter]

i mean: if 2...Ke1 3.Bg2 and now f4?/h4? its over but if 3...Kd1 the king is cut off...i played 4.Kf2 and i think its just a matter of time to get the black king "stalemated", no?

Yes with 3...f4 (?) or ...h4(?), but it's still a matter of how much time (DTM) and as long as I don't have such a forced mating line I'm not fully sure, if Black can't escape yet still. As for a study, that isn't a mate in x- problem, DTM doesn't really matter, for the engines it does.
That's the problem with positions, if you can't "convince" the engines of your human eval, at least to me then there's always some work to be done still.

Till tomorrow (today) regards

the problem was harder than i thought yesterday...ill give black the shot like this this:
surely not all white moves are perfectly choosen but my maingoal was to find the best moves for black...pretty sure that black is hopelessly lost !?



[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2021.05.01"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Hobacle, Can"]
[Black "White, Win?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "6bn/5pPq/5PpB/5pPp/5K2/5B2/8/6k1 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "99"]

1. Ke3 Kf1 2. Bd5 Ke1 3. Bg2 Kd1 4. Bf1 Kc2 5. Ba6 Kc3 6. Bd3 Kb3 7. Kd2
Kb4 8. Ba6 Kc5 9. Kd3 Kd5 10. Bb7+ Kc5 11. Kc3 Kb5 12. Bd5 Kc5 13. Bc4 Kb6
14. Kd4 Ka5 15. Kc5 Ka4 16. Bd5 Ka3 17. Kc4 Kb2 18. Kd3 Ka3 19. Kc3 Ka4 20.
Bc6+ Ka5 21. Be8 Kb6 22. Kb4 Ka6 23. Kc5 Ka7 24. Ba4 Kb7 25. Bb5 Kc7 26.
Bc6 h4 27. Bg2 Kd7 28. Bf3 Kc7 29. Bc6 h3 30. Bh1 h2 31. Bd5 Kd7 32. Kd4
Kd6 33. Ba8 Kd7 34. Ke3 Kd6 35. Kf2 Ke5 36. Kg3 Kd4 37. Kxh2 Ke3 38. Kg3
Ke2 39. Bf3+ Ke3 40. Kg2 Kd2 41. Kf2 Kd3 42. Bc6 Kd2 43. Bb5 Kc3 44. Ke3
Kc2 45. Bf1 Kc3 46. Bd3 Kb4 47. Kd2 Kc5 48. Kc3 Kd5 49. Bc2 Ke5 50. Kd3 Kd5
51. Bb3+ Ke5 52. Ke3 Kd6 53. Kd4 Kc6 54. Ba4+ Kd6 55. Bb5 Ke6 56. Bc4+ Kd6
57. Bd5 Kc7 58. Kc5 Kd7 59. Bb3 Kc7 60. Ba4 Kb7 61. Bb5 Kc7 62. Bc6 f4 63.
Bf3 Kd7 64. Kd5 Kc7 65. Ke5 Kb6 66. Kxf4 Kc5 67. Ke3 Kc4 68. Be2+ Kc3 69.
Bd3 Kb4 70. Kd4 Kb3 71. Be4 Kb4 72. Bc2 Kb5 73. Bb3 Kb4 74. Bc4 Ka5 75. Kc5
Ka4 76. Bd5 Ka3 77. Kc4 Kb2 78. Kd3 Ka3 79. Kc3 Ka4 80. Bc6+ Ka5 81. Be8
Kb6 82. Kd4 Ka6 83. Kc5 Ka7 84. Kb5 Kb7 85. Bc6+ Kc7 86. Kc5 Kb8 87. Kb6
Kc8 88. Ba4 Kb8 89. Bd7 Ka8 90. Bc6+ Kb8 91. Bb7 Qxg7 92. Bxg7 Bh7 93. Bf8
Bg8 94. Bd6# [/pgn]

I'm even less sure than I was yesterday. E.g. at your line, what forces Black to 26...h4?
How about ...Kb8 instead?

I see that you can force zugzwang with "but- one- stalemate" at 8th rank too, but I still don't see how Black's forced to get there for sure neither.
I'll wait for Hobacle to decide for a certain starting- position and an according winning line of his now regards

[Spliffjiffer]

kb8 is probaby worse...it follows Kb6 as in the endsequece

[peter]

kb8 is probaby worse...it follows Kb6 as in the endsequece

Yes, saw it, yet still I have to understand fully how to force the King to 8th rank before.
Have to have more playing and less posting, as it seems