Outskirts

[ChickenLogic]

The forum has not been closed permanently.

There are probably several reasons for the closure. But I do not know. Marco is a fine person and he wants to make the best possible for everyone. Thanks Marco!

I also made some mistakes and I apologize for them.

As for me: I remember that a lot was allowed in the old MZ forum in the past. Marco has introduced stricter rules in the new Outskirts Forum. Download links to illegal engines (Stockfish clones violating the GPL) are not permitted. These include the following engines: Raubfisch, Eman, Fisherov, AI, Zeus.

As a moderator, I tried to delete all illegal links (not just to engines). I often read a lot of threads that didn't interest me personally. That takes time. Several times I deleted links to engines. Some then said I was being petty.

Might be. But what I don't like, is hypocrisy. While reading the forum yesterday, I saw in a thread, test with the Zeus engine. There was a download link to the games, as well as congratulations to the AI ​​team (including some likes).

I didn't like that. I waste my time, making downloads from illegal engines difficult, but forum members are also posting congratulations to developers of such engines.

In my opinion, they just don't go together. That's why I expressed my displeasure about it. We don't have a rule that forbids this, that's why I wrote this as my personal opinion, not as an order.

I was then accused of being the most pathetic moderator there is. I would scare away important members of the forum with my approach. I was asked by an administrator to resign as a moderator. I do it with pleasure.

Anyway: I stand by my approach, I have no regrets, and I don't want to further moderate such a forum, where some rules are only faked, but secretly behind some corners, you are happy about every engine clone and more things, which I don't want to talk about (Marco is not meant, he doesn't have that attitude, he likes the opposite).

Seriously, what the in the actual f is wrong with people? A moderator following the rules is petty all of the sudden? 'Developers' violating the GPLv2+ license is one thing. People congratulating 'developers' and encouraging them to keep violating the rights of many talented people - that is beyond petty. Reaping the benefits of free (as in libre) software and then spitting in the face of the many people working on that piece of software just to get some attention - that is disgusting.
How about actually improving the libre software of your choice and then doing the correct thing by keeping it libre for a change?

[Eduard]

The forum has not been closed permanently.

There are probably several reasons for the closure. But I do not know. Marco is a fine person and he wants to make the best possible for everyone. Thanks Marco!

I also made some mistakes and I apologize for them.

As for me: I remember that a lot was allowed in the old MZ forum in the past. Marco has introduced stricter rules in the new Outskirts Forum. Download links to illegal engines (Stockfish clones violating the GPL) are not permitted. These include the following engines: Raubfisch, Eman, Fisherov, AI, Zeus.

As a moderator, I tried to delete all illegal links (not just to engines). I often read a lot of threads that didn't interest me personally. That takes time. Several times I deleted links to engines. Some then said I was being petty.

Might be. But what I don't like, is hypocrisy. While reading the forum yesterday, I saw in a thread, test with the Zeus engine. There was a download link to the games, as well as congratulations to the AI ​​team (including some likes).

I didn't like that. I waste my time, making downloads from illegal engines difficult, but forum members are also posting congratulations to developers of such engines.

In my opinion, they just don't go together. That's why I expressed my displeasure about it. We don't have a rule that forbids this, that's why I wrote this as my personal opinion, not as an order.

I was then accused of being the most pathetic moderator there is. I would scare away important members of the forum with my approach. I was asked by an administrator to resign as a moderator. I do it with pleasure.

Anyway: I stand by my approach, I have no regrets, and I don't want to further moderate such a forum, where some rules are only faked, but secretly behind some corners, you are happy about every engine clone and more things, which I don't want to talk about (Marco is not meant, he doesn't have that attitude, he likes the opposite).

Seriously, what the in the actual f is wrong with people? A moderator following the rules is petty all of the sudden? 'Developers' violating the GPLv2+ license is one thing. People congratulating 'developers' and encouraging them to keep violating the rights of many talented people - that is beyond petty. Reaping the benefits of free (as in libre) software and then spitting in the face of the many people working on that piece of software just to get some attention - that is disgusting.
How about actually improving the libre software of your choice and then doing the correct thing by keeping it libre for a change?

First of all, I'm no longer a moderator there. I also had nothing against anyone personally. If that's how it felt, then I'm sorry.

Quite apart from GPL (although that also plays a role in this case, there would have been an engine download, I would have deleted it because of a GPL violation):

If I get a private engine to test, then I treat the test as a private matter as well. The test is only my business and the developer. What are any results supposed to tell the public? What does a result of 11: 9 for Engine X mean to someone if he (as a public person) does not even know this Engine X and has never seen it? And if I even publicly hand over a trophy to the developer for his great laboratory work that nobody knows, what's the point?

If I'm not allowed to criticize something like that, then I'll be happy to go away!

[Eduard]

I would like to briefly address one point that has nothing to do with the Outskirts Forum, but with the subject. There are other platforms where engines are discussed and where all kinds of software of this kind can be downloaded. Legal, illegal, commercial, everything is free. The forum moderator lets it all go.

A few weeks ago we discussed the Raubfisch engine there. The reason for this was the adoption of a code that was previously published in some open source projects, including In SugaR AI 2.40.

Here, as a layman, I became a little aware of how hurtful this must be for open source developers.

In the end, the author of the Raubfisch honestly admitted to using stockfish codes. However, that he also implements his own code. Then he wrote (roughly literally): "I don't want to give my codes to others". That is the reason why he does not publish the source code.

At least that was honest. And: There is nothing wrong with that as long as nothing further is given. But that is not the case. Under the guise of "Private Engine", he has publicly distributed his engine on several platforms (unfortunately this also includes Chess Engines Diary). Once I was live on playchess when he posted a link to his Raubfisch to everyone in the chat. Is that supposed to be private then?

There are private engines, yes. But from now on I can no longer accept that for myself if tests of allegedly private engines are posted on all platforms. This is then no longer private, but the homage to selfish vanities.

[Guenther]

...

At least that was honest. And: There is nothing wrong with that as long as nothing further is given. But that is not the case. Under the guise of "Private Engine", he has publicly distributed his engine on several platforms (unfortunately this also includes Chess Engines Diary).

...

(unfortunately this also includes Chess Engines Diary)
Why unfortunately? This 'site' is known since ever for what it is doing.

It promotes all kind of illegal clones (plus stupid renamed SF twins) and moreover it gains money by recycling even github download links
to click-money file hosters. Then they still ask for more money by donations. That's disgusting.
(and the so called engine tests are hilarious crap in their quality)

[Eduard]

Unfortunately I donated there too. I was stupid, sorry.