Fritz 18: Evolving Genius

[carldaman]

Too many people on this forum... just do not 'get it'.

That is probably because 95% of the posts/talk in the "General Topics" tab is about ENGINES...and often an obsession of the "strength" of engines in relation to other engines. So...narrow is the thinking! Blinkered. Some are just off the reservation when it comes to PLAYING chess for its own sake. As someone who actually likes to PLAY chess and has done so constantly for 35 years in OTB tournaments...it breaks my heart.

Think like a human player for one moment - interested in getting better or just playing a good game of chess against an engine in a GUI actually built for that. THIS is clearly what the Fritz GUI is all about. It is "soft" AI, If I may use the term, and aimed at the masses, not a narrow range of enthusiast who, perhaps, get their jollies off of pushing a super-strong engine thru it's paces and maybe picking between its offered move choices against someone else doing something similar with another engine. That's not even AI, it's...well, I decline to even describe it.

For those who still enjoy PLAYING a game of chess, creating on your own and getting satisfaction out of your (own) efforts - like going to a club and playing against someone roughly your own strength or an OTB tournament (like I played in last weekend)...GUI's like Fritz are far more useful than yet another iteration of Stockfish. Treat it as such.

The Evolving Genius feature is an example of this "Soft" AI (I would turn off the annoying 'chat' feature of course when using it...). I watched Sager Shah's video on their website and would love to see it in more games than the tactical opening viewers suggested moves to. I would be interested in knowing how they actually go about 'allowing you' certain ideas (an not outright blundering to you...) while still retaining good overall strength of play.

If they could make the engine play 'positionally' 2nd/3rd best moves a certain percentage of the time, which are not outright 'bad' (just something a sharp or improving player could spot and try to make use of...say it creating a 'hole' on b6 or playing ...h6 as black in a position which might allow you good play against the 'hook' with 0-0-0 followed by g4), and if you miss the possibility of exploiting it, point that out, that in conjunction with features like this would make for a truly well rounded sparring opponent in Fritz.

THAT...is the future of 'computer chess'...not another iteration or derivative of Stockfish or Komodo / Dragon. Mark my words. We already see small steps in that direction at various chess playing websites...glad to see Chessbase is heading more and more in that direction with their Fritz GUI.

Good points re: the new Fritz features' potential, but the last comments were a little unfair to Komodo, which has provided really decent Human-like personalities, in combination with lowering the engine's strength to suit one's level of play. Komodo also uses smart contempt which means it can pose problems even when being down material, something that other engines can be very bad at.

[Cornfed]

Too many people on this forum... just do not 'get it'.

That is probably because 95% of the posts/talk in the "General Topics" tab is about ENGINES...and often an obsession of the "strength" of engines in relation to other engines. So...narrow is the thinking! Blinkered. Some are just off the reservation when it comes to PLAYING chess for its own sake. As someone who actually likes to PLAY chess and has done so constantly for 35 years in OTB tournaments...it breaks my heart.

Think like a human player for one moment - interested in getting better or just playing a good game of chess against an engine in a GUI actually built for that. THIS is clearly what the Fritz GUI is all about. It is "soft" AI, If I may use the term, and aimed at the masses, not a narrow range of enthusiast who, perhaps, get their jollies off of pushing a super-strong engine thru it's paces and maybe picking between its offered move choices against someone else doing something similar with another engine. That's not even AI, it's...well, I decline to even describe it.

For those who still enjoy PLAYING a game of chess, creating on your own and getting satisfaction out of your (own) efforts - like going to a club and playing against someone roughly your own strength or an OTB tournament (like I played in last weekend)...GUI's like Fritz are far more useful than yet another iteration of Stockfish. Treat it as such.

The Evolving Genius feature is an example of this "Soft" AI (I would turn off the annoying 'chat' feature of course when using it...). I watched Sager Shah's video on their website and would love to see it in more games than the tactical opening viewers suggested moves to. I would be interested in knowing how they actually go about 'allowing you' certain ideas (an not outright blundering to you...) while still retaining good overall strength of play.

If they could make the engine play 'positionally' 2nd/3rd best moves a certain percentage of the time, which are not outright 'bad' (just something a sharp or improving player could spot and try to make use of...say it creating a 'hole' on b6 or playing ...h6 as black in a position which might allow you good play against the 'hook' with 0-0-0 followed by g4), and if you miss the possibility of exploiting it, point that out, that in conjunction with features like this would make for a truly well rounded sparring opponent in Fritz.

THAT...is the future of 'computer chess'...not another iteration or derivative of Stockfish or Komodo / Dragon. Mark my words. We already see small steps in that direction at various chess playing websites...glad to see Chessbase is heading more and more in that direction with their Fritz GUI.

Good points re: the new Fritz features' potential, but the last comments were a little unfair to Komodo, which has provided really decent Human-like personalities, in combination with lowering the engine's strength to suit one's level of play. Komodo also uses smart contempt which means it can pose problems even when being down material, something that other engines can be very bad at.

True, Dragon actually does offer lower strength options. Some would consider that stretching the term 'soft AI' a bit. It is largely in the realm of the GUI though to offer output and interact with a user in any meaningful way.

[Cornfed]

Too many people on this forum... just do not 'get it'.

That is probably because 95% of the posts/talk in the "General Topics" tab is about ENGINES...and often an obsession of the "strength" of engines in relation to other engines. So...narrow is the thinking! Blinkered. Some are just off the reservation when it comes to PLAYING chess for its own sake. As someone who actually likes to PLAY chess and has done so constantly for 35 years in OTB tournaments...it breaks my heart.

I really think all the posts about general chess engines topics should be split off into another forum, something like "Computer Chess Club: Chess Engines". Talkchess already does this for matches/tournaments/rating lists.

Rare though it seems sometimes...I completely agree with you here!

[AdminX]

Okay, so I just downloaded and installed Fritz 18. Then I played a quick test game to test out some of the new features. I did find it helpful as a sort of coach, however it also felt like I was cheating and being helped by some nearby kibitzer shouting out advice I did not ask for. Of course the game was installed with the default setting which I had not yet changed. I think the new interface and AI will pair nicely with the Dragon by Komodo engine for players that wish to prepare for human games.

[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "????.??.??"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Summers, Ted"]
[Black "Club player (Fritz)"]
[Result "1-0"]
[PlyCount "103"]

1. Nf3 c5 2. d3 Nc6 3. Nbd2 d6 4. c3 Qd7 5. Qc2 Nf6 6. e4 b5 7. Be2 e5 8. h3
Be7 9. g4 h6 10. Rg1 Bb7 11. Nf1 g6 12. Ne3 Rc8 13. a4 Nd4 14. cxd4 cxd4 15.
Qd1 dxe3 16. Bxe3 a5 17. axb5 Qxb5 18. Kf1 h5 19. g5 Nd7 20. h4 O-O 21. d4 Qc6
22. d5 Qc7 23. Qa4 Nb6 24. Qb5 Nd7 25. Kg2 Rcd8 26. Rgc1 Nc5 27. Rxa5 Rb8 28.
Bxc5 dxc5 29. Ra7 Rfc8 30. Qc4 Re8 31. b4 Qb6 32. Rxb7 $1 {Deflection} Qxb7 33.
bxc5 Qc8 34. Nd2 Rb2 35. Nb3 Bxg5 36. hxg5 Qd8 37. Rc3 Qxg5+ 38. Rg3 Qh4 39. c6
Qe7 40. Nc5 h4 41. Rxg6+ $3 {Beautiful} fxg6 42. d6+ Qf7 43. Qxf7+ Kxf7 44.
Bc4+ Kg7 45. d7 Rbb8 46. c7 g5 47. cxb8=Q Rxb8 48. Ne6+ Kg6 49. d8=Q Rxd8 50.
Nxd8 g4 51. Ne6 Kf7 52. Ng5+ {Fritz resigns} 1-0
[/pgn]


We can just call BS on this as it kept shouting out advice

[reflectionofpower]

I just bought it. I will fiddle with it later on after work. Many interesting features

[Cornfed]

I just bought it. I will fiddle with it later on after work. Many interesting features

I ended up getting it as well but will not be able to play with it for a few days. I saw a video with some lady IM playing against it on a beatable setting...she had the 'talk feature' turned off. I will certainly do that. Perhaps kids would like it the feature, but at least you can turn it off.

I must say, that new 2-D board looks mighty nice.

[AdminX]

I just bought it. I will fiddle with it later on after work. Many interesting features

I ended up getting it as well but will not be able to play with it for a few days. I saw a video with some lady IM playing against it on a beatable setting...she had the 'talk feature' turned off. I will certainly do that. Perhaps kids would like it the feature, but at least you can turn it off.

I must say, that new 2-D board looks mighty nice.

Yes, I realized that after playing the 1st game. With the talk setting on it felt like I was cheating.

[Eduard]

Hello Ted,
could you do an online test with Fritz 18 in the engine room? Just a short game Eng vs Eng.

While an Eng game is running, click on the "My Moves" button (next to the notation). What happens if you do this? What happens if you go to notation afterwards? Do you see a correct position on the board and the correct notation?

Fritz 17 has a BUG here. Even the CB 16 program has a BUG if you play online as a human against an engine. That's why I uninstalled Fritz 17.

[Magnum]

I just bought it. I will fiddle with it later on after work. Many interesting features

If you need many interesting features, write an e-mail to the developer of BanksiaGUI.
banksiagui@gmail.com

[Madeleine Birchfield]

Okay, so I just downloaded and installed Fritz 18. Then I played a quick test game to test out some of the new features. I did find it helpful as a sort of coach, however it also felt like I was cheating and being helped by some nearby kibitzer shouting out advice I did not ask for. Of course the game was installed with the default setting which I had not yet changed. I think the new interface and AI will pair nicely with the Dragon by Komodo engine for players that wish to prepare for human games.

Were you able to play around with the Evolving Genius thing yet? How does it work in practice, and does it work for other engines like Dragon?