Draughts has not been solved, can a chess programmer solve it ?

[Chessqueen]

Guenther , Don't waste your time on the ChessFairy , he is in love with himself & oblivious to anything else ...

Yes Guenther, Do NOT waste your time, trying to stop some trolls on this forum, since they do NOT care what you say as long as they can keep a topic interesting for the other 98% of the members

[Chessqueen]

Draughts has not been solved, can a chess programmer solve it ? Only 8x8 checkers has been solved by Chinook, but not this version of international Draughts, which could be as complicated as chess with 10x10 Draughts board. I believe that this will be the next challenge to solve Draughts. Anyway here is an IM Chess player who just learned how to play Draughts ==>

Here is Eric Rosen Fide Ratings in Chess, but he is only rated over 1700 in Draughts ==> https://ratings.fide.com/profile/2032562

So that this doesnt derail into a discussion of chess vs draughts which you stated that you do not want.
Let me ask this:
Is there a draught engine in existence on github?
What is the known branching factor?

From a computer standpoint I can say that only 50 squares are used so a position would fit into 2 computer registers. Also with very simple rules so I guess only 2-3 instructions are needed per possible move so you could literally do trillions of moves/s on a gpu.

If its a 8x8 board its literally 32 squares with 24 pieces. That sounds infinitely more solvable especially since a gpu is a 32 bit machine.

That leaves retrograde analysis starting from 0 pieces and building a tablebase until you arrive at 40 man tablebase. I think in chess the tablebase uses less than 1 bit per position on average.

Also most of you do NOT even noticed that some of these Draughts programmers programmed Chess engines that are above 2550 CCRL rating for instance:

Joost Buijs programmer of Ares NNUE Draughts also programmed Nightmare Chess engine
The program was created in the end of june 2020, the first version of Ares in the NNUE [Event "WCRCC 2013"]

[Site "Internet Chess Club"]
[Date "2013.07.20"]
[Round "6"]
[White "Nightmare"]
[Black "Arasan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]

1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nf3 e6 5.Be2 Nd7 6.O-O Bg6 7.Nbd2 Ne7 8.Nh4 c5
9.c3 Qb6 10.Ndf3 Be4 11.dxc5 Qxc5 12.Nd4 Nc6 13.Be3 Qe7 14.f3 Qxh4 15.Bf2
Qg5 16.fxe4 dxe4 17.Qa4 Ncxe5 18.Nb5 Qd8 19.Qxe4 a6 20.Bg3 Qb6+ 21.Kh1 axb5
22.Bxe5 Qc6 23.Qe3 Nxe5 24.Qxe5 f6 25.Rxf6 gxf6 26.Qxf6 Rg8 27.Bh5+ Rg6
28.Bxg6+ hxg6 29.Rf1 Kd7 30.Qf7+ Kd6 31.Rd1+ Ke5 32.h4 Rc8 33.Rd4 Bh6
34.Qxg6 Rh8 35.Rb4 Kd6 36.Qf6 Qe8 37.a4 Be3 38.Re4 Ba7 39.Qe5+ Kd7 40.Qxb5+
Kc8 41.Qe5 Qd8 42.Rc4+ Kd7 43.g3 Qb8 44.Qg7+ Kd6 45.Rb4 Qf8 46.Qxf8+ Rxf8
47.Rxb7 e5 48.Rxa7 e4 49.b3 e3 50.Ra6+ Kd5 51.c4+ Ke5 52.Ra5+ Ke4 53.Ra6 Rf1+
54.Kg2 e2 55.Re6+ Kd3 56.g4 e1=Q 57.Rxe1 Rxe1 58.h5 Ke3 59.b4 Kf4 60.b5 Re2+
61.Kf1 Kf3 62.a5 Ra2 63.Ke1 Ke3 64.Kf1 Rf2+ 65.Kg1 Kf3 66.b6 Rg2+ 67.Kf1 Ra2
68.Ke1 Ke3 69.Kd1 Kd3 70.Kc1 Kc3 71.Kd1 Kd3 72.Kc1 Kc3 73.Kd1 Kd3 1/2-1/2


Fabien Letouzey programmer of Scan 3.1 in Draughts also created these chess programs Fruit [2], and Senpai 2.0 which is rated 3111, http://ccrl.chessdom.com/ccrl/4040/cgi/ ... 4-bit_4CPU
Fruit is rated above 2700 by CCRL, therefore, when you look at Fruit 2 and compare it with Scan 3.1 in Draughts rated around 2450 by Draughts ratings, it is not so easy to program a Draughts engine that can beat the World Draughts human Champion https://www.fruitchess.com/
https://www.chessprogramming.org/Fabien_Letouzey

[Jjaw]

[Chessqueen]

I prefer this instead of your smiley faces, if I reach over 80 years old, I will set up a table on Central Park New York and play by myself, I will become the famous lonely player ==>
They will even make a cartoon out of me ==>
Well I will be just another old man playing by myself ==>

[Chessqueen]

I prefer this instead of your smiley faces, if I reach over 80 years old, I will set up a table on Central Park New York and play by myself, I will become the famous lonely player ==>
They will even make a cartoon out of me ==>
Well I will be just another old man playing by myself ==>

Here is the 2020 Draughts Computer championship, Any of those engines can give me 3 stones handicap or odds, since I just reached 1430 via https://lidraughts.org/. I do not know why he has to punch the clock for both engines, both engines can keep track of their time ==>

[Chessqueen]

I prefer this instead of your smiley faces, if I reach over 80 years old, I will set up a table on Central Park New York and play by myself, I will become the famous lonely player ==>
They will even make a cartoon out of me ==>
Well I will be just another old man playing by myself ==>

Here is the 2020 Draughts Computer championship, any of those engines can give Ivanchuk 1 stone handicap or odds,http://www.fmjd.org/?p=pcard&id=20097, since he is only rated around 1983 in international Draughts. Here for the computer World Championship of 2020, I do not know why the operator has to punch the clock for both engines, both engines can keep track of their time ==>


Note: I believe that the team of Stockfish developer or programmers can create a Stockfish Draughts version engine that can solve International Draughts, since the stone or stones only move diagonally, and take diagonally forward or backward and once promoted to a King, the King move like a Bishop, very easy for the team of Stockfish to program or Mr. Larry Kaufman and his team of programmers. The highest Human elo ratings is only 2439, but of course it is rated different than Chess ==> https://www.fmjd.org/?p=rating.
Ivanchuck is an expert 1084 de Groot Harry NETHERLANDS 1984 a 1084
1085 Zhang Lei CHINA 1984 a 1086
1086 Bat-erdene Bilguun MONGOLIA cmf 1984 a 1085
1087 Tursunmurotova Shakhzoda UZBEKISTAN 1984 a 1087
1088 Tulva Tarmo ESTONIA 1983 a 1088
1089 Ivanchuk Vassily UKRAINE 1983 a 1089

[dangi12012]

Ok this person quoted himself 3 times wihtout text. Can someone get a forum moderator here?

[Chessqueen]

Ok this person quoted himself 3 times without text. Can someone get a forum moderator here?

Oh I apologized I have 2 computers, I probably wrote posted something and left the other opened without realizing that I already wrote on the other, and posted it on top of a previous one. Sorry

[Rein Halbersma]

You make 2 mistakes here, first of all Draughts is actually played on a 50 square board, secondly the level of Draughts programs in 2012 wasn't very high, maybe comparable in complexity to chess programs with 2500 CCRL rating. Even today are top level Draughts programs relatively simple and way less advanced than top level Chess engines.

The main reason is that there is hardly any development going on in computer Draughts. If you look at the computer Draughts forum there are just a few posts per year, sometimes several months are passing by without a single message.

I guess there is no comparable massive collaborative effort like Stockfish in draughts, but if Fabien Letouzey's Senpai can have a near 3000 CCRL rating, then I think it's safe to assume that his program Scan is at least having a similarly advanced search function. So I wouldn't disqualify the level of quality of draughts programs. In my opinion, they main difference is that massive amount of testing that goes into Stockfish.

[Rein Halbersma]

Is there a draught engine in existence on github?

For international draughts:
https://github.com/rhalbersma/scan

For clarity: this is a mirror of the publicly released .zip files of source code by Fabien Letouzey (author of Scan). I maintain the repo because found it annoying to constantly open .zip files