When it was CCRL 2100 blitz, what were the highest rated humans on LiChess that it defeated (non-bullet) in at least ten games (approximate range of top ten defeated opponents)? What would you estimate its Lichess blitz rating (say at 3' + 2") would have been against purely human opponents? Are the higher rated bots on LiChess (like 2500 or so) rated properly vs. humans there, or are they also artificially underrated in human terms?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:11 am Lichess bots are highly underrated. Thanks to all the SF bots that are running on the site and hammer the self-made bots.
But looking at Zahak for example even when it was around CCRL 2100 and running on a raspberry pi 3 (32 bit) it still could beat all human players that it has played.
Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
Moderator: Ras
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lkaufman
- Posts: 6279
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
- Location: Maryland USA
- Full name: Larry Kaufman
Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
Komodo rules!
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amanjpro
- Posts: 883
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- Full name: Amanj Sherwany
Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
That is hard to remember. But I just found a 1930 player losing two games (out of two) against Zahak, 9 months ago. At that time Zahak was actually only ~1930 CCRL or so. Unfortunately, LiChess search is not that good to do a better search.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:24 amWhen it was CCRL 2100 blitz, what were the highest rated humans on LiChess that it defeated (non-bullet) in at least ten games (approximate range of top ten defeated opponents)? What would you estimate its Lichess blitz rating (say at 3' + 2") would have been against purely human opponents? Are the higher rated bots on LiChess (like 2500 or so) rated properly vs. humans there, or are they also artificially underrated in human terms?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:11 am Lichess bots are highly underrated. Thanks to all the SF bots that are running on the site and hammer the self-made bots.
But looking at Zahak for example even when it was around CCRL 2100 and running on a raspberry pi 3 (32 bit) it still could beat all human players that it has played.
Zahak is currently only ~2400 blitz on LiChess (4CPU, a proper PC), most of the SF bots are around 2600 or so. But currently Zahak on CCRL (1CPU) is 3270! So the pool is very very compact on LiChess
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lkaufman
- Posts: 6279
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
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- Full name: Larry Kaufman
Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
Is this 2400 LiChess blitz rating based on playing mostly humans, or mostly bots? Are there enough games with humans to say what its LiChess rating would be counting only games with humans? The human ratings on LiChess are not "compact", at least not compared to FIDE ratings according to this thread. So just what is happening here? Perhaps the higher rated bots are just rated against (mostly) cheating humans, whereas no one cheats against a low rated bot?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:45 amThat is hard to remember. But I just found a 1930 player losing two games (out of two) against Zahak, 9 months ago. At that time Zahak was actually only ~1930 CCRL or so. Unfortunately, LiChess search is not that good to do a better search.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:24 amWhen it was CCRL 2100 blitz, what were the highest rated humans on LiChess that it defeated (non-bullet) in at least ten games (approximate range of top ten defeated opponents)? What would you estimate its Lichess blitz rating (say at 3' + 2") would have been against purely human opponents? Are the higher rated bots on LiChess (like 2500 or so) rated properly vs. humans there, or are they also artificially underrated in human terms?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:11 am Lichess bots are highly underrated. Thanks to all the SF bots that are running on the site and hammer the self-made bots.
But looking at Zahak for example even when it was around CCRL 2100 and running on a raspberry pi 3 (32 bit) it still could beat all human players that it has played.
Zahak is currently only ~2400 blitz on LiChess (4CPU, a proper PC), most of the SF bots are around 2600 or so. But currently Zahak on CCRL (1CPU) is 3270! So the pool is very very compact on LiChess
Komodo rules!
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Ferdy
- Posts: 4851
- Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:15 pm
- Location: Philippines
Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
I am not sure, it is just a list with sorted rating with a profile link for further examination.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:07 amThanks. Do any of these already have known approximate CCRL blitz ratings? If not I can probably manage to get the maia bots running on Lc0 at one node and test them myself.Ferdy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:30 amList of bots from lichess-bots team with 500 or more blitz games.Ferdy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:57 amThere are maia bots in lichess like maia1 has around 1478 blitz. It is just lc0 + maia nn called maia-1100.pb.gz. This can be run with nodes=1 limit, you may use the older versions like Lc0 v0.26. Better to use CPU version to generate more games in shorter time if cpu has more threads.lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:32 pm This is interesting and quite reasonable; the roughly 6 to 5 spread in ratings from FIDE to Lichess blitz is about what I would expect due to the smaller percentage of draws in blitz. Is there any data that would allow you to compare CCRL blitz ratings with Lichess blitz ratings? Due to the compression of CCRL ratings by BayesElo and the expansion of LiChess blitz ratings, I would expect that the relationship would be fairly close to linear.
maia9 has around 1770 blitz using maia-1900.pb.gz nn. This can be easily compared with CCRL engines around this strength levels.
There are other lichess bots but reproducing it for CCRL on our PC can be a challenge. maia is easier. I think the authors of those bots can run those under CCRL settings.
There is minihuman by dkappe with a higher blitz rating. Reading the description I think this can be easily adapted for CCRL. It has a limit of around 2500 nodes.Mean Girl 8 (32x4) -- the most fun leela-style network -- looking at ~2500 nodes on a Raspberry Pi 3. Will play casual and rated Blitz, Rapid and Classical with at least 3 sec increment in both standard and chess960. Will move almost instantly. Designed to be a reasonable sparring partner. Uses a gambit book for extra entertainment value.Code: Select all
userid team bgames blitzrating profilelink title 0 nezh-bot lichess-bots 1021 2911 https://lichess.org/@/Nezh-BOT BOT 1 leelachess lichess-bots 12447 2658 https://lichess.org/@/LeelaChess BOT 2 leelachesstest lichess-bots 1434 2610 https://lichess.org/@/LeelaChessTest BOT 3 resolutebot lichess-bots 3227 2594 https://lichess.org/@/ResoluteBot BOT 4 andscacs1 lichess-bots 1297 2571 https://lichess.org/@/AndScacs1 BOT 5 mrchessmanager lichess-bots 891 2544 https://lichess.org/@/mrchessmanager BOT 6 combuskengine lichess-bots 1663 2541 https://lichess.org/@/combuskengine BOT 7 jonnierman lichess-bots 523 2540 https://lichess.org/@/Jonnierman BOT 8 asterix_20k20 lichess-bots 618 2528 https://lichess.org/@/asterix_20k20 BOT 9 brainlearn11_nnue lichess-bots 1335 2509 https://lichess.org/@/BRAINLEARN11_NNUE BOT 10 noobpwnftw lichess-bots 1388 2500 https://lichess.org/@/NoobPwnFTW BOT 11 blazikenbot2000 lichess-bots 2533 2474 https://lichess.org/@/BlazikenBot2000 BOT 12 lc0test lichess-bots 2240 2471 https://lichess.org/@/Lc0Test BOT 13 playleela lichess-bots 815 2466 https://lichess.org/@/PlayLeela BOT 14 godelescherbot lichess-bots 2593 2445 https://lichess.org/@/GodelEscherBot BOT 15 chesschipbot lichess-bots 717 2439 https://lichess.org/@/ChessChipBot BOT 16 lc0_bongclown lichess-bots 751 2391 https://lichess.org/@/Lc0_Bongclown BOT 17 zahak_engine lichess-bots 841 2356 https://lichess.org/@/zahak_engine BOT 18 willbochessengine lichess-bots 1266 2345 https://lichess.org/@/WillBoChessEngine BOT 19 raveonette-bot lichess-bots 656 2316 https://lichess.org/@/raveonette-bot BOT 20 aks-mantissa lichess-bots 628 2299 https://lichess.org/@/AKS-Mantissa BOT 21 flamingdragon_9000 lichess-bots 2429 2295 https://lichess.org/@/FlamingDragon_9000 BOT 22 lichapibot lichess-bots 1833 2289 https://lichess.org/@/lichapibot BOT 23 cheng-4 lichess-bots 2141 2286 https://lichess.org/@/Cheng-4 BOT 24 leelanice lichess-bots 3842 2277 https://lichess.org/@/LeelaNice BOT 25 chessnoobcomp lichess-bots 733 2242 https://lichess.org/@/ChessNoobComp BOT 26 elmichess lichess-bots 3024 2227 https://lichess.org/@/Elmichess BOT 27 bot_adario lichess-bots 774 2227 https://lichess.org/@/bot_adario BOT 28 ravenengine lichess-bots 1383 2212 https://lichess.org/@/RavenEngine BOT 29 odonata-bot lichess-bots 611 2185 https://lichess.org/@/odonata-bot BOT 30 clueless-bot lichess-bots 1669 2173 https://lichess.org/@/clueless-bot BOT 31 cosettebot lichess-bots 6231 2157 https://lichess.org/@/CosetteBot BOT 32 simpleeval lichess-bots 4021 2157 https://lichess.org/@/simpleEval BOT 33 phalanx-xxv lichess-bots 829 2135 https://lichess.org/@/Phalanx-XXV BOT 34 weiawaga lichess-bots 2307 2134 https://lichess.org/@/Weiawaga BOT 35 squared-chess lichess-bots 1541 2134 https://lichess.org/@/squared-chess BOT 36 try_to_beat_me_kid lichess-bots 2690 2133 https://lichess.org/@/Try_To_Beat_Me_Kid BOT 37 pseudo-0 lichess-bots 883 2124 https://lichess.org/@/Pseudo-0 BOT 38 garbobot lichess-bots 2384 2070 https://lichess.org/@/GarboBot BOT 39 sunfish_rs lichess-bots 906 2057 https://lichess.org/@/sunfish_rs BOT 40 honzovy-sachy-2 lichess-bots 1813 2031 https://lichess.org/@/honzovy-sachy-2 BOT 41 goldfish-engine lichess-bots 548 1974 https://lichess.org/@/Goldfish-Engine BOT 42 quokkabot lichess-bots 1007 1936 https://lichess.org/@/QuokkaBot BOT 43 eubos lichess-bots 4047 1932 https://lichess.org/@/eubos BOT 44 entebot lichess-bots 539 1901 https://lichess.org/@/entebot BOT 45 b0t5_ru13 lichess-bots 617 1893 https://lichess.org/@/B0T5_RU13 BOT 46 honzovy-sachy lichess-bots 653 1796 https://lichess.org/@/honzovy-sachy BOT 47 maia9 lichess-bots 42046 1774 https://lichess.org/@/maia9 BOT 48 xadreco lichess-bots 2233 1690 https://lichess.org/@/Xadreco BOT 49 chesschildren lichess-bots 6054 1674 https://lichess.org/@/ChessChildren BOT 50 maiamystery lichess-bots 1097 1668 https://lichess.org/@/MaiaMystery BOT 51 maia5 lichess-bots 40239 1654 https://lichess.org/@/maia5 BOT 52 virutor lichess-bots 1692 1654 https://lichess.org/@/Virutor BOT 53 trolliumbot lichess-bots 526 1651 https://lichess.org/@/TrolliumBot BOT 54 turkjs lichess-bots 5688 1646 https://lichess.org/@/turkjs BOT 55 jonox lichess-bots 1413 1614 https://lichess.org/@/JonoX BOT 56 leelaweak lichess-bots 1155 1565 https://lichess.org/@/LeelaWeak BOT 57 maia1 lichess-bots 90109 1458 https://lichess.org/@/maia1 BOT 58 playgea lichess-bots 668 1449 https://lichess.org/@/PlayGea BOT 59 turobot lichess-bots 3730 1396 https://lichess.org/@/TuroBot BOT 60 sargon-1ply lichess-bots 1358 1358 https://lichess.org/@/sargon-1ply BOT 61 sxdraw lichess-bots 917 1345 https://lichess.org/@/SxDraw BOT 62 ladoga_engine lichess-bots 2610 1343 https://lichess.org/@/ladoga_engine BOT 63 bottios lichess-bots 2160 1319 https://lichess.org/@/Bottios BOT 64 knucklefish lichess-bots 916 1244 https://lichess.org/@/knucklefish BOT 65 sxdrawworse lichess-bots 798 1168 https://lichess.org/@/SxDrawWorse BOT 66 babibot lichess-bots 1803 1118 https://lichess.org/@/Babibot BOT 67 capturebot lichess-bots 4703 826 https://lichess.org/@/CaptureBot BOT 68 randommoverbot lichess-bots 7582 697 https://lichess.org/@/RandomMoverBot BOT
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amanjpro
- Posts: 883
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2021 1:47 am
- Full name: Amanj Sherwany
Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
Mostly bots. Humans usually only play casual gameslkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:59 amIs this 2400 LiChess blitz rating based on playing mostly humans, or mostly bots? Are there enough games with humans to say what its LiChess rating would be counting only games with humans? The human ratings on LiChess are not "compact", at least not compared to FIDE ratings according to this thread. So just what is happening here? Perhaps the higher rated bots are just rated against (mostly) cheating humans, whereas no one cheats against a low rated bot?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:45 amThat is hard to remember. But I just found a 1930 player losing two games (out of two) against Zahak, 9 months ago. At that time Zahak was actually only ~1930 CCRL or so. Unfortunately, LiChess search is not that good to do a better search.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:24 amWhen it was CCRL 2100 blitz, what were the highest rated humans on LiChess that it defeated (non-bullet) in at least ten games (approximate range of top ten defeated opponents)? What would you estimate its Lichess blitz rating (say at 3' + 2") would have been against purely human opponents? Are the higher rated bots on LiChess (like 2500 or so) rated properly vs. humans there, or are they also artificially underrated in human terms?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:11 am Lichess bots are highly underrated. Thanks to all the SF bots that are running on the site and hammer the self-made bots.
But looking at Zahak for example even when it was around CCRL 2100 and running on a raspberry pi 3 (32 bit) it still could beat all human players that it has played.
Zahak is currently only ~2400 blitz on LiChess (4CPU, a proper PC), most of the SF bots are around 2600 or so. But currently Zahak on CCRL (1CPU) is 3270! So the pool is very very compact on LiChess
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Ferdy
- Posts: 4851
- Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 3:15 pm
- Location: Philippines
Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
Profile of MiniHuman BOT. It has only played a single BOT in blitz rated game with 7 games. There are 24 opp players who violates Lichess TOS. Lichess has a mechanism to refund rating lost if opp violates TOS. So rating is not affected in this case.Ferdy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:57 amThere are maia bots in lichess like maia1 has around 1478 blitz. It is just lc0 + maia nn called maia-1100.pb.gz. This can be run with nodes=1 limit, you may use the older versions like Lc0 v0.26. Better to use CPU version to generate more games in shorter time if cpu has more threads.lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:32 pm This is interesting and quite reasonable; the roughly 6 to 5 spread in ratings from FIDE to Lichess blitz is about what I would expect due to the smaller percentage of draws in blitz. Is there any data that would allow you to compare CCRL blitz ratings with Lichess blitz ratings? Due to the compression of CCRL ratings by BayesElo and the expansion of LiChess blitz ratings, I would expect that the relationship would be fairly close to linear.
maia9 has around 1770 blitz using maia-1900.pb.gz nn. This can be easily compared with CCRL engines around this strength levels.
There are other lichess bots but reproducing it for CCRL on our PC can be a challenge. maia is easier. I think the authors of those bots can run those under CCRL settings.
There is minihuman by dkappe with a higher blitz rating. Reading the description I think this can be easily adapted for CCRL. It has a limit of around 2500 nodes.Mean Girl 8 (32x4) -- the most fun leela-style network -- looking at ~2500 nodes on a Raspberry Pi 3. Will play casual and rated Blitz, Rapid and Classical with at least 3 sec increment in both standard and chess960. Will move almost instantly. Designed to be a reasonable sparring partner. Uses a gambit book for extra entertainment value.
TOS = Terms of Service.
Code: Select all
profile of MiniHuman:
userid bgames blitzrating tos title
MiniHuman 1297 2433 0 BOTCode: Select all
number of unique opp names: 141
unique opp names who violates TOS: 24
unique opp names who do not violates TOS: 117Code: Select all
name of bot opp:
userid bgames blitzrating tos title
Leela1Node 459 2143 0 BOT
number of games played when opp is a bot: 7Code: Select all
userid bgames blitzrating tos title
0 Kudritsky_Maksim_04 9516 2523 0 no_title
1 itay121 2692 2467 0 no_title
2 Maharlikan 582 2344 0 no_title
3 DOLPHIN_2012 3251 2332 0 no_title
4 m_kastriot 7733 2294 0 no_title
5 Thxultra2 10244 2291 0 no_title
6 schpringer 8563 2280 0 no_title
7 Karagialis 4374 2261 0 no_title
8 Michalsos 5501 2259 0 no_title
9 Wildcard1659 5152 2249 0 no_title
10 the_providence 202 2244 0 no_title
11 skoyen99 805 2243 0 FM
12 Dingdongking 1858 2231 0 no_title
13 completemagnet 301 2226 0 no_title
14 Mai-San_skida 21 2207 0 no_title
15 DeltaZero_99 3201 2204 0 no_title
16 EarlyLight 64 2204 0 no_title
17 kapibarr 7075 2176 0 no_title
18 rutvik3 1187 2176 0 no_title
19 Leela1Node 459 2143 0 BOT
20 never__quit 9388 2120 0 no_title
21 Soni_Atharv 3375 2119 0 no_title
22 MichaelLambert 4017 2109 0 no_title
23 petermac 5861 2107 0 no_title
24 PiecePeace 1451 2103 0 no_title
25 MasterofUnknown 3 2072 0 no_title
26 checkmatetrix 1513 2060 0 no_title
27 Nahia12 1521 2054 0 no_title
28 DanTheMan82 1216 2053 0 no_title
29 Plaskad 112 2035 0 no_title
30 Speed1 28916 2028 0 no_title
31 Vkiller 2401 2026 0 no_title
32 JanHudak 1631 2025 0 no_title
33 Quick_chess65 380 2024 0 no_title
34 sirprimal11 6300 2021 0 no_title
35 Noyar 827 2016 0 no_title
36 Creignor 367 2004 0 no_title
So I guess this is a good candidate to connect to CCRL Blitz, close to this level of play (Lichess Blitz 2400).
Mean Girl net is at https://github.com/dkappe/leela-chess-w ... -style-net. Then get Lc0 to run it at around 2500 nodes per move according to its profile in Lichess. I am not sure which Lc0 version to use, maybe from year 2019 or 2020.
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lkaufman
- Posts: 6279
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
- Location: Maryland USA
- Full name: Larry Kaufman
Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
We're testing it now vs ccrl engines at ccrl blitz tc. dkappe says the correct number of nodes is 3000, not 2500.Ferdy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 7:48 amProfile of MiniHuman BOT. It has only played a single BOT in blitz rated game with 7 games. There are 24 opp players who violates Lichess TOS. Lichess has a mechanism to refund rating lost if opp violates TOS. So rating is not affected in this case.Ferdy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:57 amThere are maia bots in lichess like maia1 has around 1478 blitz. It is just lc0 + maia nn called maia-1100.pb.gz. This can be run with nodes=1 limit, you may use the older versions like Lc0 v0.26. Better to use CPU version to generate more games in shorter time if cpu has more threads.lkaufman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 5:32 pm This is interesting and quite reasonable; the roughly 6 to 5 spread in ratings from FIDE to Lichess blitz is about what I would expect due to the smaller percentage of draws in blitz. Is there any data that would allow you to compare CCRL blitz ratings with Lichess blitz ratings? Due to the compression of CCRL ratings by BayesElo and the expansion of LiChess blitz ratings, I would expect that the relationship would be fairly close to linear.
maia9 has around 1770 blitz using maia-1900.pb.gz nn. This can be easily compared with CCRL engines around this strength levels.
There are other lichess bots but reproducing it for CCRL on our PC can be a challenge. maia is easier. I think the authors of those bots can run those under CCRL settings.
There is minihuman by dkappe with a higher blitz rating. Reading the description I think this can be easily adapted for CCRL. It has a limit of around 2500 nodes.Mean Girl 8 (32x4) -- the most fun leela-style network -- looking at ~2500 nodes on a Raspberry Pi 3. Will play casual and rated Blitz, Rapid and Classical with at least 3 sec increment in both standard and chess960. Will move almost instantly. Designed to be a reasonable sparring partner. Uses a gambit book for extra entertainment value.
TOS = Terms of Service.
Code: Select all
profile of MiniHuman: userid bgames blitzrating tos title MiniHuman 1297 2433 0 BOTCode: Select all
number of unique opp names: 141 unique opp names who violates TOS: 24 unique opp names who do not violates TOS: 117opp with rating 2000 and above that are not TOS violators:Code: Select all
name of bot opp: userid bgames blitzrating tos title Leela1Node 459 2143 0 BOT number of games played when opp is a bot: 7The ratings in the list are the current ratings, the ratings in the actual game may not be the same.Code: Select all
userid bgames blitzrating tos title 0 Kudritsky_Maksim_04 9516 2523 0 no_title 1 itay121 2692 2467 0 no_title 2 Maharlikan 582 2344 0 no_title 3 DOLPHIN_2012 3251 2332 0 no_title 4 m_kastriot 7733 2294 0 no_title 5 Thxultra2 10244 2291 0 no_title 6 schpringer 8563 2280 0 no_title 7 Karagialis 4374 2261 0 no_title 8 Michalsos 5501 2259 0 no_title 9 Wildcard1659 5152 2249 0 no_title 10 the_providence 202 2244 0 no_title 11 skoyen99 805 2243 0 FM 12 Dingdongking 1858 2231 0 no_title 13 completemagnet 301 2226 0 no_title 14 Mai-San_skida 21 2207 0 no_title 15 DeltaZero_99 3201 2204 0 no_title 16 EarlyLight 64 2204 0 no_title 17 kapibarr 7075 2176 0 no_title 18 rutvik3 1187 2176 0 no_title 19 Leela1Node 459 2143 0 BOT 20 never__quit 9388 2120 0 no_title 21 Soni_Atharv 3375 2119 0 no_title 22 MichaelLambert 4017 2109 0 no_title 23 petermac 5861 2107 0 no_title 24 PiecePeace 1451 2103 0 no_title 25 MasterofUnknown 3 2072 0 no_title 26 checkmatetrix 1513 2060 0 no_title 27 Nahia12 1521 2054 0 no_title 28 DanTheMan82 1216 2053 0 no_title 29 Plaskad 112 2035 0 no_title 30 Speed1 28916 2028 0 no_title 31 Vkiller 2401 2026 0 no_title 32 JanHudak 1631 2025 0 no_title 33 Quick_chess65 380 2024 0 no_title 34 sirprimal11 6300 2021 0 no_title 35 Noyar 827 2016 0 no_title 36 Creignor 367 2004 0 no_title
So I guess this is a good candidate to connect to CCRL Blitz, close to this level of play (Lichess Blitz 2400).
Mean Girl net is at https://github.com/dkappe/leela-chess-w ... -style-net. Then get Lc0 to run it at around 2500 nodes per move according to its profile in Lichess. I am not sure which Lc0 version to use, maybe from year 2019 or 2020.
Komodo rules!
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carldaman
- Posts: 2287
- Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 2:13 am
Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
Most strong players avoid the SF bots like the plague. If they want to lose to SF they can do so on their own PC without going to lichess. Otherwise, the SF bots would have much higher ratings.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:59 amIs this 2400 LiChess blitz rating based on playing mostly humans, or mostly bots? Are there enough games with humans to say what its LiChess rating would be counting only games with humans? The human ratings on LiChess are not "compact", at least not compared to FIDE ratings according to this thread. So just what is happening here? Perhaps the higher rated bots are just rated against (mostly) cheating humans, whereas no one cheats against a low rated bot?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:45 amThat is hard to remember. But I just found a 1930 player losing two games (out of two) against Zahak, 9 months ago. At that time Zahak was actually only ~1930 CCRL or so. Unfortunately, LiChess search is not that good to do a better search.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:24 amWhen it was CCRL 2100 blitz, what were the highest rated humans on LiChess that it defeated (non-bullet) in at least ten games (approximate range of top ten defeated opponents)? What would you estimate its Lichess blitz rating (say at 3' + 2") would have been against purely human opponents? Are the higher rated bots on LiChess (like 2500 or so) rated properly vs. humans there, or are they also artificially underrated in human terms?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:11 am Lichess bots are highly underrated. Thanks to all the SF bots that are running on the site and hammer the self-made bots.
But looking at Zahak for example even when it was around CCRL 2100 and running on a raspberry pi 3 (32 bit) it still could beat all human players that it has played.
Zahak is currently only ~2400 blitz on LiChess (4CPU, a proper PC), most of the SF bots are around 2600 or so. But currently Zahak on CCRL (1CPU) is 3270! So the pool is very very compact on LiChess
The lichess bot I've set up, Nezh-BOT, has played more than its share of decent human players due to its wild attacking style, and this has resulted in a rating of 2900+. Nezh's rating has climbed continuously and should continue to do so with more play against strong humans.
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lkaufman
- Posts: 6279
- Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
- Location: Maryland USA
- Full name: Larry Kaufman
Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
Interesting. I am not familiar with it; does it have a ccrl rating or other engine rating list rating? What is the underlying engine?carldaman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:52 amMost strong players avoid the SF bots like the plague. If they want to lose to SF they can do so on their own PC without going to lichess. Otherwise, the SF bots would have much higher ratings.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:59 amIs this 2400 LiChess blitz rating based on playing mostly humans, or mostly bots? Are there enough games with humans to say what its LiChess rating would be counting only games with humans? The human ratings on LiChess are not "compact", at least not compared to FIDE ratings according to this thread. So just what is happening here? Perhaps the higher rated bots are just rated against (mostly) cheating humans, whereas no one cheats against a low rated bot?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:45 amThat is hard to remember. But I just found a 1930 player losing two games (out of two) against Zahak, 9 months ago. At that time Zahak was actually only ~1930 CCRL or so. Unfortunately, LiChess search is not that good to do a better search.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:24 amWhen it was CCRL 2100 blitz, what were the highest rated humans on LiChess that it defeated (non-bullet) in at least ten games (approximate range of top ten defeated opponents)? What would you estimate its Lichess blitz rating (say at 3' + 2") would have been against purely human opponents? Are the higher rated bots on LiChess (like 2500 or so) rated properly vs. humans there, or are they also artificially underrated in human terms?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:11 am Lichess bots are highly underrated. Thanks to all the SF bots that are running on the site and hammer the self-made bots.
But looking at Zahak for example even when it was around CCRL 2100 and running on a raspberry pi 3 (32 bit) it still could beat all human players that it has played.
Zahak is currently only ~2400 blitz on LiChess (4CPU, a proper PC), most of the SF bots are around 2600 or so. But currently Zahak on CCRL (1CPU) is 3270! So the pool is very very compact on LiChess
The lichess bot I've set up, Nezh-BOT, has played more than its share of decent human players due to its wild attacking style, and this has resulted in a rating of 2900+. Nezh's rating has climbed continuously and should continue to do so with more play against strong humans.
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Re: Lichess Blitz rating to FIDE rating
This is Nezh's profile. It would be great if we can simulate it under CCRL conditions so then we can interpolate from minihuman 2400 to nezh 2900.carldaman wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 12:52 amMost strong players avoid the SF bots like the plague. If they want to lose to SF they can do so on their own PC without going to lichess. Otherwise, the SF bots would have much higher ratings.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:59 amIs this 2400 LiChess blitz rating based on playing mostly humans, or mostly bots? Are there enough games with humans to say what its LiChess rating would be counting only games with humans? The human ratings on LiChess are not "compact", at least not compared to FIDE ratings according to this thread. So just what is happening here? Perhaps the higher rated bots are just rated against (mostly) cheating humans, whereas no one cheats against a low rated bot?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:45 amThat is hard to remember. But I just found a 1930 player losing two games (out of two) against Zahak, 9 months ago. At that time Zahak was actually only ~1930 CCRL or so. Unfortunately, LiChess search is not that good to do a better search.lkaufman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:24 amWhen it was CCRL 2100 blitz, what were the highest rated humans on LiChess that it defeated (non-bullet) in at least ten games (approximate range of top ten defeated opponents)? What would you estimate its Lichess blitz rating (say at 3' + 2") would have been against purely human opponents? Are the higher rated bots on LiChess (like 2500 or so) rated properly vs. humans there, or are they also artificially underrated in human terms?amanjpro wrote: ↑Wed Dec 22, 2021 4:11 am Lichess bots are highly underrated. Thanks to all the SF bots that are running on the site and hammer the self-made bots.
But looking at Zahak for example even when it was around CCRL 2100 and running on a raspberry pi 3 (32 bit) it still could beat all human players that it has played.
Zahak is currently only ~2400 blitz on LiChess (4CPU, a proper PC), most of the SF bots are around 2600 or so. But currently Zahak on CCRL (1CPU) is 3270! So the pool is very very compact on LiChess
The lichess bot I've set up, Nezh-BOT, has played more than its share of decent human players due to its wild attacking style, and this has resulted in a rating of 2900+. Nezh's rating has climbed continuously and should continue to do so with more play against strong humans.
Code: Select all
profile of Nezh-BOT:
userid bgames blitzrating profilelink tos title
Nezh-BOT 1021 2911 https://lichess.org/@/Nezh-BOT 0 BOT
number of unique opp names: 264
unique opp names who violates TOS: 16
unique opp names who do not violates TOS: 248
Code: Select all
userid bgames blitzrating profilelink tos title
igel-bot 417 2362 https://lichess.org/@/igel-bot 0 BOT
RavenEngine 1383 2212 https://lichess.org/@/RavenEngine 0 BOT
Minic-chess_engine 223 2159 https://lichess.org/@/Minic-chess_engine 0 BOT
squared-chess 1549 2135 https://lichess.org/@/squared-chess 0 BOT
Pseudo-0 883 2124 https://lichess.org/@/Pseudo-0 0 BOT
sunfish_rs 908 2074 https://lichess.org/@/sunfish_rs 0 BOT
honzovy-sachy-2 1816 2037 https://lichess.org/@/honzovy-sachy-2 0 BOT
dolegibot 444 1864 https://lichess.org/@/dolegibot 0 BOT
Lozza-Bot 37 1678 https://lichess.org/@/Lozza-Bot 0 BOT
Virutor 1694 1652 https://lichess.org/@/Virutor 0 BOT
turkjs 5689 1642 https://lichess.org/@/turkjs 0 BOT
Pineapple-Friendly 1728 1553 https://lichess.org/@/Pineapple-Friendly 0 BOT
number of games played when opp is a bot: 26Code: Select all
userid bgames blitzrating profilelink tos title
0 HorrendousBrilliancy 123 2929 https://lichess.org/@/HorrendousBrilliancy 0 GM
1 justantan 2657 2850 https://lichess.org/@/justantan 0 GM
2 VodkaBearsSnow 78 2740 https://lichess.org/@/VodkaBearsSnow 0 no_title
3 gmluke 1554 2736 https://lichess.org/@/gmluke 0 GM
4 dmitrijiiiGM 1169 2727 https://lichess.org/@/dmitrijiiiGM 0 CM
5 CXCX83 5010 2708 https://lichess.org/@/CXCX83 0 GM
6 juancruzariasTDF 9806 2700 https://lichess.org/@/juancruzariasTDF 0 CM
7 IS_01 10451 2622 https://lichess.org/@/IS_01 0 no_title
8 JuleVerne 2386 2620 https://lichess.org/@/JuleVerne 0 FM
9 jeffforever 7720 2608 https://lichess.org/@/jeffforever 0 FM
10 Careless_Subroto 2213 2608 https://lichess.org/@/Careless_Subroto 0 FM
11 Tahaned2015 21761 2607 https://lichess.org/@/Tahaned2015 0 IM
12 Sergeant_Fedorov 2286 2575 https://lichess.org/@/Sergeant_Fedorov 0 no_title
13 DanPach 42852 2558 https://lichess.org/@/DanPach 0 FM
14 moshakvar 7065 2530 https://lichess.org/@/moshakvar 0 no_title
15 Rezamo 8937 2528 https://lichess.org/@/Rezamo 0 no_title
16 MarcinPol137 4074 2512 https://lichess.org/@/MarcinPol137 0 no_title
17 championman3838 141 2507 https://lichess.org/@/championman3838 0 no_title
18 qkxwsm 4394 2506 https://lichess.org/@/qkxwsm 0 no_title
19 taras05 8530 2500 https://lichess.org/@/taras05 0 no_title
20 Paretsky_Mikhail 5411 2478 https://lichess.org/@/Paretsky_Mikhail 0 no_title
21 LuiShirosagi 2185 2474 https://lichess.org/@/LuiShirosagi 0 no_title
22 Marshall__D__Teach 2111 2471 https://lichess.org/@/Marshall__D__Teach 0 no_title
23 subham777 1754 2426 https://lichess.org/@/subham777 0 no_title
24 ChessBoys 9544 2420 https://lichess.org/@/ChessBoys 0 no_title
25 f3e5g4Qh4X 880 2416 https://lichess.org/@/f3e5g4Qh4X 0 no_title
26 Timpie 3463 2413 https://lichess.org/@/Timpie 0 no_title
27 dogman12345 1445 2413 https://lichess.org/@/dogman12345 0 no_title
28 Caro-Kann-Zerstoerer 3700 2412 https://lichess.org/@/Caro-Kann-Zerstoerer 0 no_title
29 Turehan 1698 2403 https://lichess.org/@/Turehan 0 no_title
30 master-mojet-i-net 2580 2385 https://lichess.org/@/master-mojet-i-net 0 no_title
31 Nikita272005 4678 2369 https://lichess.org/@/Nikita272005 0 no_title
32 paja534 9283 2363 https://lichess.org/@/paja534 0 no_title
33 YouAreTrep 2291 2355 https://lichess.org/@/YouAreTrep 0 no_title
34 rickyrich 13238 2351 https://lichess.org/@/rickyrich 0 NM
35 shreorus 1399 2347 https://lichess.org/@/shreorus 0 no_title
36 Jaychim 6204 2345 https://lichess.org/@/Jaychim 0 no_title
37 KOtholo 1293 2344 https://lichess.org/@/KOtholo 0 no_title
38 Maharlikan 582 2344 https://lichess.org/@/Maharlikan 0 no_title
39 ZabolotnyyMikhail 1038 2342 https://lichess.org/@/ZabolotnyyMikhail 0 no_title
40 DavidNizama 4489 2335 https://lichess.org/@/DavidNizama 0 no_title
41 rafaelbulezi2003 5843 2334 https://lichess.org/@/rafaelbulezi2003 0 no_title
42 AgsiKapin12 5722 2333 https://lichess.org/@/AgsiKapin12 0 no_title
43 g3rm4n 19121 2332 https://lichess.org/@/g3rm4n 0 no_title
44 minalabh 12807 2328 https://lichess.org/@/minalabh 0 no_title
45 MenteSexual 7549 2325 https://lichess.org/@/MenteSexual 0 no_title
46 jusly 10298 2317 https://lichess.org/@/jusly 0 no_title
47 HMohamed710 10789 2315 https://lichess.org/@/HMohamed710 0 no_title
48 Enrigo93 12894 2311 https://lichess.org/@/Enrigo93 0 no_title
49 kero101 2626 2310 https://lichess.org/@/kero101 0 no_title
50 NTU0621 4746 2305 https://lichess.org/@/NTU0621 0 no_title
51 NicBog 2740 2301 https://lichess.org/@/NicBog 0 no_title
52 mzninja66 759 2301 https://lichess.org/@/mzninja66 0 no_title
53 Lucon2000 126 2300 https://lichess.org/@/Lucon2000 0 no_title
54 JFloresQ 6017 2295 https://lichess.org/@/JFloresQ 0 no_title
55 BraveHorsey 1298 2292 https://lichess.org/@/BraveHorsey 0 no_title
56 Gregor84 4721 2284 https://lichess.org/@/Gregor84 0 no_title
57 Soyamsree09YT 519 2281 https://lichess.org/@/Soyamsree09YT 0 no_title
58 pilevski 2417 2274 https://lichess.org/@/pilevski 0 no_title
59 BGD_Chess 1793 2267 https://lichess.org/@/BGD_Chess 0 no_title
60 zenenmaria 13913 2266 https://lichess.org/@/zenenmaria 0 no_title
61 shine2 1171 2262 https://lichess.org/@/shine2 0 no_title
62 malvinJoshua6999 4687 2261 https://lichess.org/@/malvinJoshua6999 0 no_title
63 IorDadLesbian 395 2259 https://lichess.org/@/IorDadLesbian 0 no_title
64 MianSanBus15 7434 2258 https://lichess.org/@/MianSanBus15 0 no_title
65 normalplayerr 4579 2257 https://lichess.org/@/normalplayerr 0 no_title
66 Sepehr--Chess2020 1131 2256 https://lichess.org/@/Sepehr--Chess2020 0 no_title
67 reallynotbatman 6325 2246 https://lichess.org/@/reallynotbatman 0 no_title
68 SUPERMELONE 2489 2245 https://lichess.org/@/SUPERMELONE 0 no_title
69 Imikan 9433 2242 https://lichess.org/@/Imikan 0 no_title
70 shegaonkar_ak 1493 2240 https://lichess.org/@/shegaonkar_ak 0 no_title
71 SuperbChessPlayer 1516 2236 https://lichess.org/@/SuperbChessPlayer 0 no_title
72 KevBull 13473 2232 https://lichess.org/@/KevBull 0 no_title
73 Dingdongking 1858 2231 https://lichess.org/@/Dingdongking 0 no_title
74 Capasid 8080 2228 https://lichess.org/@/Capasid 0 no_title
75 chesspassionist 5199 2227 https://lichess.org/@/chesspassionist 0 no_title
76 HeartBreaker0 3201 2227 https://lichess.org/@/HeartBreaker0 0 no_title
77 Notyetuhuru 8434 2225 https://lichess.org/@/Notyetuhuru 0 no_title
78 Deadlybishop 17455 2219 https://lichess.org/@/Deadlybishop 0 no_title
79 abomalik123 15688 2218 https://lichess.org/@/abomalik123 0 no_title
80 DwayneTheRob 3852 2218 https://lichess.org/@/DwayneTheRob 0 no_title
81 Kiprotich 16681 2217 https://lichess.org/@/Kiprotich 0 no_title
82 AOjeda 3646 2217 https://lichess.org/@/AOjeda 0 no_title
83 TUAKELADI 17005 2213 https://lichess.org/@/TUAKELADI 0 no_title
84 SouthAfrican_Hyena 11429 2213 https://lichess.org/@/SouthAfrican_Hyena 0 no_title
85 freesvetoslav 9099 2206 https://lichess.org/@/freesvetoslav 0 no_title
86 Drunken-chess 8336 2205 https://lichess.org/@/Drunken-chess 0 no_title
87 ODMCMARE 9862 2203 https://lichess.org/@/ODMCMARE 0 no_title
88 andrew100914 3218 2201 https://lichess.org/@/andrew100914 0 no_title
89 MagnusFischer4 2560 2195 https://lichess.org/@/MagnusFischer4 0 no_title
90 KARASUMA1 5771 2194 https://lichess.org/@/KARASUMA1 0 no_title
91 houdini_1 18181 2191 https://lichess.org/@/houdini_1 0 no_title
92 KING_MALAU 6332 2188 https://lichess.org/@/KING_MALAU 0 no_title
93 Kirill-2008 3706 2188 https://lichess.org/@/Kirill-2008 0 no_title
94 Its_Xavi_Official 3952 2187 https://lichess.org/@/Its_Xavi_Official 0 no_title
95 sososoMan 299 2187 https://lichess.org/@/sososoMan 0 no_title
96 simastark 14415 2185 https://lichess.org/@/simastark 0 no_title
97 Vovan2011 3463 2182 https://lichess.org/@/Vovan2011 0 no_title
98 alyasarii0000 13816 2180 https://lichess.org/@/alyasarii0000 0 no_title
99 vrgg 4446 2171 https://lichess.org/@/vrgg 0 no_title
100 Elmir-2007 2519 2168 https://lichess.org/@/Elmir-2007 0 no_title
101 TrApS64 3375 2162 https://lichess.org/@/TrApS64 0 no_title
102 AlexanderRoyle12 1104 2161 https://lichess.org/@/AlexanderRoyle12 0 no_title
103 capablanca2001 625 2161 https://lichess.org/@/capablanca2001 0 no_title
104 OmarDF 3633 2156 https://lichess.org/@/OmarDF 0 no_title
105 VoMinhNhatmilo 1285 2156 https://lichess.org/@/VoMinhNhatmilo 0 no_title
106 MATEONADAL 9866 2153 https://lichess.org/@/MATEONADAL 0 no_title
107 Lord_Legend 1248 2151 https://lichess.org/@/Lord_Legend 0 no_title
108 king12345678910 1537 2149 https://lichess.org/@/king12345678910 0 no_title
109 george_mcgeorge 1695 2147 https://lichess.org/@/george_mcgeorge 0 no_title
110 Fomdox 10275 2138 https://lichess.org/@/Fomdox 0 no_title
111 ericriva 4030 2128 https://lichess.org/@/ericriva 0 no_title
112 Jdale_Salabsab2005 2420 2123 https://lichess.org/@/Jdale_Salabsab2005 0 no_title
113 AgustinLamique2 736 2123 https://lichess.org/@/AgustinLamique2 0 no_title
114 SofiaLeung 10 2122 https://lichess.org/@/SofiaLeung 0 no_title
115 SupremePatzer 6432 2118 https://lichess.org/@/SupremePatzer 0 no_title
116 ElGranFreezer 851 2116 https://lichess.org/@/ElGranFreezer 0 no_title
117 TheMailMan 7588 2115 https://lichess.org/@/TheMailMan 0 no_title
118 gerardts 9620 2113 https://lichess.org/@/gerardts 0 no_title
119 dimm555 25250 2108 https://lichess.org/@/dimm555 0 no_title
120 petermac 5861 2107 https://lichess.org/@/petermac 0 no_title
121 tHeStReEtGeNiUs 4033 2105 https://lichess.org/@/tHeStReEtGeNiUs 0 no_title
122 KingBusayo 878 2102 https://lichess.org/@/KingBusayo 0 no_title
123 tremorX 558 2102 https://lichess.org/@/tremorX 0 no_title
124 Pawnschess 2620 2100 https://lichess.org/@/Pawnschess 0 no_title
125 RAMCPU 1018 2100 https://lichess.org/@/RAMCPU 0 no_title
126 Lporta 3438 2098 https://lichess.org/@/Lporta 0 no_title
127 Narz 5119 2094 https://lichess.org/@/Narz 0 no_title
128 RednoSuz 14785 2092 https://lichess.org/@/RednoSuz 0 no_title
129 rand2020 9803 2091 https://lichess.org/@/rand2020 0 no_title
130 asafyan 12955 2090 https://lichess.org/@/asafyan 0 no_title
131 haha_pawn_go_brrr 2021 2090 https://lichess.org/@/haha_pawn_go_brrr 0 no_title
132 bearnee 2766 2081 https://lichess.org/@/bearnee 0 no_title
133 Mradul57 1945 2078 https://lichess.org/@/Mradul57 0 no_title
134 Yriks0901 1832 2072 https://lichess.org/@/Yriks0901 0 no_title
135 chessmaster2356 1013 2072 https://lichess.org/@/chessmaster2356 0 no_title
136 PIeRo2011 1213 2068 https://lichess.org/@/PIeRo2011 0 no_title
137 FlyingLemon 1598 2060 https://lichess.org/@/FlyingLemon 0 no_title
138 ChumbaKiptoo 5827 2059 https://lichess.org/@/ChumbaKiptoo 0 no_title
139 Slombo 933 2055 https://lichess.org/@/Slombo 0 no_title
140 CHESSGSRU 1282 2054 https://lichess.org/@/CHESSGSRU 0 no_title
141 connerator 5850 2053 https://lichess.org/@/connerator 0 no_title
142 BreizhStorming 5710 2053 https://lichess.org/@/BreizhStorming 0 no_title
143 Brenio24 632 2053 https://lichess.org/@/Brenio24 0 no_title
144 crescenciosanjur24 4566 2052 https://lichess.org/@/crescenciosanjur24 0 no_title
145 ganchess01 11000 2048 https://lichess.org/@/ganchess01 0 no_title
146 omatamix2 779 2047 https://lichess.org/@/omatamix2 0 no_title
147 LittleChessPlayer202 156 2033 https://lichess.org/@/LittleChessPlayer202 0 no_title
148 Speed1 28916 2028 https://lichess.org/@/Speed1 0 no_title
149 Pamilerin20 3727 2027 https://lichess.org/@/Pamilerin20 0 no_title
150 Dildog707 3213 2027 https://lichess.org/@/Dildog707 0 no_title
151 Quick_chess65 380 2024 https://lichess.org/@/Quick_chess65 0 no_title
152 Gaetano2001 14334 2023 https://lichess.org/@/Gaetano2001 0 no_title
153 ZainNoor 1535 2020 https://lichess.org/@/ZainNoor 0 no_title
154 BlackKnight2009 730 2014 https://lichess.org/@/BlackKnight2009 0 no_title
155 Nakaa 2618 2012 https://lichess.org/@/Nakaa 0 no_title
156 Rakitic5 102 2012 https://lichess.org/@/Rakitic5 0 no_title
157 vegeta_sama 3248 2009 https://lichess.org/@/vegeta_sama 0 no_title
158 S_Garcia 2868 2009 https://lichess.org/@/S_Garcia 0 no_title
159 locnguyen2k 770 2006 https://lichess.org/@/locnguyen2k 0 no_title
160 EvgeniyPilat 6110 2005 https://lichess.org/@/EvgeniyPilat 0 no_title
161 one2345678nine 1724 2005 https://lichess.org/@/one2345678nine 0 no_title
162 Zenone 8075 2002 https://lichess.org/@/Zenone 0 no_title
163 Bonifides 226 2002 https://lichess.org/@/Bonifides 0 no_title
164 Denismulama 4274 2001 https://lichess.org/@/Denismulama 0 no_title