What is Komodo Average rating at Knight odds Vs Humans

[Chessqueen]

Based on all the games that Komodo has played versus IM, and GMs what is the rapid average rating of Komodo at Knight Odds ? Can It also be broken down to standard and MCTS

[lkaufman]

Based on all the games that Komodo has played versus IM, and GMs what is the rapid average rating of Komodo at Knight Odds ? Can It also be broken down to standard and MCTS

I can do the math, but we have to decide which games to include. I think we should include only games by Dragon, not the Smerdon and older games with regular Komodo. That means matches with IM Toth and GMs Wirig, Perelshteyn, and Finegold. Also two games (wins) vs. my son Ray (public games on chess.com but not announced in advance). I'll exclude my own games as I have "inside information" and mixed motives. Also, what about the games you operated yourself with Dragon against an IM in Dominican Republic? If you think we should include them remind me of the rating and results. I don't think there are enough MCTS games to justify separating them, especially since there were many other variables (different versions, different time limits for Komodo itself, different books, different Contempt); it's just using what seemed best at the time.

[Chessqueen]

Based on all the games that Komodo has played versus IM, and GMs what is the rapid average rating of Komodo at Knight Odds ? Can It also be broken down to standard and MCTS

I can do the math, but we have to decide which games to include. I think we should include only games by Dragon, not the Smerdon and older games with regular Komodo. That means matches with IM Toth and GMs Wirig, Perelshteyn, and Finegold. Also two games (wins) vs. my son Ray (public games on chess.com but not announced in advance). I'll exclude my own games as I have "inside information" and mixed motives. Also, what about the games you operated yourself with Dragon against an IM in Dominican Republic? If you think we should include them remind me of the rating and results. I don't think there are enough MCTS games to justify separating them, especially since there were many other variables (different versions, different time limits for Komodo itself, different books, different Contempt); it's just using what seemed best at the time.

Here is the rating of Munoz Santana, Jose Lisandro IM 2426 , but I just spoke with him and he does not want me to include his games. he told me that he did NOT know that I was going to post his games. So I apologized to him. since I did not agreed in advanced.

[lkaufman]

Based on all the games that Komodo has played versus IM, and GMs what is the rapid average rating of Komodo at Knight Odds ? Can It also be broken down to standard and MCTS

I can do the math, but we have to decide which games to include. I think we should include only games by Dragon, not the Smerdon and older games with regular Komodo. That means matches with IM Toth and GMs Wirig, Perelshteyn, and Finegold. Also two games (wins) vs. my son Ray (public games on chess.com but not announced in advance). I'll exclude my own games as I have "inside information" and mixed motives. Also, what about the games you operated yourself with Dragon against an IM in Dominican Republic? If you think we should include them remind me of the rating and results. I don't think there are enough MCTS games to justify separating them, especially since there were many other variables (different versions, different time limits for Komodo itself, different books, different Contempt); it's just using what seemed best at the time.

Here is the rating of Munoz Santana, Jose Lisandro IM 2426 , but I just spoke with him and he does not want me to include his games. he told me that he did NOT know that I was going to post his games. So I apologized to him. since I did not agreed in advanced.

Then we have 9 games with GM Wirig (2516 FIDE), 6 with GM Perelshteyn (2494), 6 with GM Finegold (2446), 6 with IM Toth (2377), and 2 with IM Raymond Kaufman (2255). Weighted average rating of opponents = 2450. Score was 9 wins, 11 losses, 9 draws, for minus 24 elo. So performance rating giving knight odds for the 29 Rapid (15' + 10") games is FIDE 2426. Wirig and Finegold are both very strong blitz players (relative to their FIDE ratings), and we have gradually gotten stronger and learned more about settings and book, so probably 2450 FIDE who is not a blitz specialist might be about an even opponent now for us under these conditions. We'll need some sort of breakthru to win matches from 2500+ GMs this way. But we are already avoiding defeat in a majority of the GM games, it's just that we rarely win.

[Chessqueen]

Based on all the games that Komodo has played versus IM, and GMs what is the rapid average rating of Komodo at Knight Odds ? Can It also be broken down to standard and MCTS

I can do the math, but we have to decide which games to include. I think we should include only games by Dragon, not the Smerdon and older games with regular Komodo. That means matches with IM Toth and GMs Wirig, Perelshteyn, and Finegold. Also two games (wins) vs. my son Ray (public games on chess.com but not announced in advance). I'll exclude my own games as I have "inside information" and mixed motives. Also, what about the games you operated yourself with Dragon against an IM in Dominican Republic? If you think we should include them remind me of the rating and results. I don't think there are enough MCTS games to justify separating them, especially since there were many other variables (different versions, different time limits for Komodo itself, different books, different Contempt); it's just using what seemed best at the time.

Here is the rating of Munoz Santana, Jose Lisandro IM 2426 , but I just spoke with him and he does not want me to include his games. he told me that he did NOT know that I was going to post his games. So I apologized to him. since I did not agreed in advanced.

Then we have 9 games with GM Wirig (2516 FIDE), 6 with GM Perelshteyn (2494), 6 with GM Finegold (2446), 6 with IM Toth (2377), and 2 with IM Raymond Kaufman (2255). Weighted average rating of opponents = 2450. Score was 9 wins, 11 losses, 9 draws, for minus 24 elo. So performance rating giving knight odds for the 29 Rapid (15' + 10") games is FIDE 2426. Wirig and Finegold are both very strong blitz players (relative to their FIDE ratings), and we have gradually gotten stronger and learned more about settings and book, so probably 2450 FIDE who is not a blitz specialist might be about an even opponent now for us under these conditions. We'll need some sort of breakthru to win matches from 2500+ GMs this way. But we are already avoiding defeat in a majority of the GM games, it's just that we rarely win.

I do NOT know if you take the standard ratings of the humans or their Rapids rating into consideration
So probably you should start targeting Junior players from different country for instance if they are from India, israel or any other nation :

8 P. Iniyan 2506 GM Tamil Nadu 13 Sep 2002
9 Saksham Rautela 2480 IM Uttrakhand 29 Jan 2004
10 Arjun Kalyan 2477 GM Tamil Nadu 17 Jun 2002
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Israel are a lot of candidates in that range:

Evgeny Postny

World Ranking: 422
Rapid: 2461
Blitz: 2521
Classical (Std): 2552


Full name: Roiz, MichaelTitle: Grandmaster (GM) 2003
Federation: Israel

World Ranking:286
Rapid: 2544
Blitz: 2593
Classical (Std): 2581

[lkaufman]

Based on all the games that Komodo has played versus IM, and GMs what is the rapid average rating of Komodo at Knight Odds ? Can It also be broken down to standard and MCTS

I can do the math, but we have to decide which games to include. I think we should include only games by Dragon, not the Smerdon and older games with regular Komodo. That means matches with IM Toth and GMs Wirig, Perelshteyn, and Finegold. Also two games (wins) vs. my son Ray (public games on chess.com but not announced in advance). I'll exclude my own games as I have "inside information" and mixed motives. Also, what about the games you operated yourself with Dragon against an IM in Dominican Republic? If you think we should include them remind me of the rating and results. I don't think there are enough MCTS games to justify separating them, especially since there were many other variables (different versions, different time limits for Komodo itself, different books, different Contempt); it's just using what seemed best at the time.

Here is the rating of Munoz Santana, Jose Lisandro IM 2426 , but I just spoke with him and he does not want me to include his games. he told me that he did NOT know that I was going to post his games. So I apologized to him. since I did not agreed in advanced.

Then we have 9 games with GM Wirig (2516 FIDE), 6 with GM Perelshteyn (2494), 6 with GM Finegold (2446), 6 with IM Toth (2377), and 2 with IM Raymond Kaufman (2255). Weighted average rating of opponents = 2450. Score was 9 wins, 11 losses, 9 draws, for minus 24 elo. So performance rating giving knight odds for the 29 Rapid (15' + 10") games is FIDE 2426. Wirig and Finegold are both very strong blitz players (relative to their FIDE ratings), and we have gradually gotten stronger and learned more about settings and book, so probably 2450 FIDE who is not a blitz specialist might be about an even opponent now for us under these conditions. We'll need some sort of breakthru to win matches from 2500+ GMs this way. But we are already avoiding defeat in a majority of the GM games, it's just that we rarely win.

I do NOT know if you take the standard ratings of the humans or their Rapids rating into consideration
So probably you should start targeting Junior players from different country for instance if they are from India, israel or any other nation :

8 P. Iniyan 2506 GM Tamil Nadu 13 Sep 2002
9 Saksham Rautela 2480 IM Uttrakhand 29 Jan 2004
10 Arjun Kalyan 2477 GM Tamil Nadu 17 Jun 2002
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Israel are a lot of candidates in that range:

Evgeny Postny

World Ranking: 422
Rapid: 2461
Blitz: 2521
Classical (Std): 2552


Full name: Roiz, MichaelTitle: Grandmaster (GM) 2003
Federation: Israel

World Ranking:286
Rapid: 2544
Blitz: 2593
Classical (Std): 2581

I only use Standard FIDE ratings; these GMs either have no FIDE Rapid rating or if they have one it is ancient and/or based on just a few games. Only the upper level of GMs generally have reliable FIDE Rapid ratings. I don't know why you think we should seek young players (under 20) as opponents for this, they are generally under-rated. Of course it wouldn't be fair to choose old GMs (like me!) either; Finegold was the only one over 40 and since he is over 2800 chess.com blitz I don't think anyone will say we picked a weak Rapid opponent for this. Wirig is also excellent at blitz.

[mehmet123]

Then we have 9 games with GM Wirig (2516 FIDE), 6 with GM Perelshteyn (2494), 6 with GM Finegold (2446), 6 with IM Toth (2377), and 2 with IM Raymond Kaufman (2255). Weighted average rating of opponents = 2450. Score was 9 wins, 11 losses, 9 draws, for minus 24 elo. So performance rating giving knight odds for the 29 Rapid (15' + 10") games is FIDE 2426. Wirig and Finegold are both very strong blitz players (relative to their FIDE ratings), and we have gradually gotten stronger and learned more about settings and book, so probably 2450 FIDE who is not a blitz specialist might be about an even opponent now for us under these conditions. We'll need some sort of breakthru to win matches from 2500+ GMs this way. But we are already avoiding defeat in a majority of the GM games, it's just that we rarely win.

But what about time handicap
"Finegold will play with standard Rapid time control (15' + 10"), while Dragon will be playing blitz (3' + 2")

I think 5x time handicap is equal to 120-140 elo at this condition.Therefore Dragon's knight handicap rating should be around 2550.

[Uri Blass]

Then we have 9 games with GM Wirig (2516 FIDE), 6 with GM Perelshteyn (2494), 6 with GM Finegold (2446), 6 with IM Toth (2377), and 2 with IM Raymond Kaufman (2255). Weighted average rating of opponents = 2450. Score was 9 wins, 11 losses, 9 draws, for minus 24 elo. So performance rating giving knight odds for the 29 Rapid (15' + 10") games is FIDE 2426. Wirig and Finegold are both very strong blitz players (relative to their FIDE ratings), and we have gradually gotten stronger and learned more about settings and book, so probably 2450 FIDE who is not a blitz specialist might be about an even opponent now for us under these conditions. We'll need some sort of breakthru to win matches from 2500+ GMs this way. But we are already avoiding defeat in a majority of the GM games, it's just that we rarely win.

But what about time handicap
"Finegold will play with standard Rapid time control (15' + 10"), while Dragon will be playing blitz (3' + 2")

I think 5x time handicap is equal to 120-140 elo at this condition.Therefore Dragon's knight handicap rating should be around 2550.

I think that you are clearly wrong
I believe that with more time for Dragon Finegold can think more on the opponent time and play better and also
5x time handicap with today engines do not give 120-140 elo even with no handicap today even against engines.

I fully expect 3'+2'' to draw against 15'+10'' in at least 90% of the games today

[Chessqueen]

Then we have 9 games with GM Wirig (2516 FIDE), 6 with GM Perelshteyn (2494), 6 with GM Finegold (2446), 6 with IM Toth (2377), and 2 with IM Raymond Kaufman (2255). Weighted average rating of opponents = 2450. Score was 9 wins, 11 losses, 9 draws, for minus 24 elo. So performance rating giving knight odds for the 29 Rapid (15' + 10") games is FIDE 2426. Wirig and Finegold are both very strong blitz players (relative to their FIDE ratings), and we have gradually gotten stronger and learned more about settings and book, so probably 2450 FIDE who is not a blitz specialist might be about an even opponent now for us under these conditions. We'll need some sort of breakthru to win matches from 2500+ GMs this way. But we are already avoiding defeat in a majority of the GM games, it's just that we rarely win.

But what about time handicap
"Finegold will play with standard Rapid time control (15' + 10"), while Dragon will be playing blitz (3' + 2")

I think 5x time handicap is equal to 120-140 elo at this condition.Therefore Dragon's knight handicap rating should be around 2550.

I think that you are clearly wrong
I believe that with more time for Dragon Finegold can think more on the opponent time and play better and also
5x time handicap with today engines do not give 120-140 elo even with no handicap today even against engines.

I fully expect 3'+2'' to draw against 15'+10'' in at least 90% of the games today

I also agree with you Uri that with more time any GM would have more time to think while Komodo is selecting its moves, but by the same token if we replay any of the last 4 MCTS games lets say at 5'+2' or even at T/C 10'+5' for Komodo 75% of the moves would be of equal quality or even the same moves.

Note: I will replay one of the last 4 games after move 8 at the end of the opening giving Komodo Dragon 2.6.1 a T/C of 10'+5' to see if Komodo chose many different moves, if it does I will report it and re-enter the actual move from the game, and continue with the next move and so on......

[Uri Blass]

Then we have 9 games with GM Wirig (2516 FIDE), 6 with GM Perelshteyn (2494), 6 with GM Finegold (2446), 6 with IM Toth (2377), and 2 with IM Raymond Kaufman (2255). Weighted average rating of opponents = 2450. Score was 9 wins, 11 losses, 9 draws, for minus 24 elo. So performance rating giving knight odds for the 29 Rapid (15' + 10") games is FIDE 2426. Wirig and Finegold are both very strong blitz players (relative to their FIDE ratings), and we have gradually gotten stronger and learned more about settings and book, so probably 2450 FIDE who is not a blitz specialist might be about an even opponent now for us under these conditions. We'll need some sort of breakthru to win matches from 2500+ GMs this way. But we are already avoiding defeat in a majority of the GM games, it's just that we rarely win.

But what about time handicap
"Finegold will play with standard Rapid time control (15' + 10"), while Dragon will be playing blitz (3' + 2")

I think 5x time handicap is equal to 120-140 elo at this condition.Therefore Dragon's knight handicap rating should be around 2550.

I think that you are clearly wrong
I believe that with more time for Dragon Finegold can think more on the opponent time and play better and also
5x time handicap with today engines do not give 120-140 elo even with no handicap today even against engines.

I fully expect 3'+2'' to draw against 15'+10'' in at least 90% of the games today

I also agree with you Uri that with more time any GM would have more time to think while Komodo is selecting its moves, but by the same token if we replay any of the last 4 MCTS games lets say at 5'+2' or even at T/C 10'+5' for Komodo 75% of the moves would be of equal quality or even the same moves.

Note: I will replay one of the last 4 games after move 8 at the end of the opening giving Komodo Dragon 2.6.1 a T/C of 10'+5' to see if Komodo chose many different moves, if it does I will report it and re-enter the actual move from the game, and continue with the next move and so on......

I think it may play different moves relative to the games because of different net and not because of different times.