Recommendations for Learning Openings

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supersharp77
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:54 am
Location: Southwest USA

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by supersharp77 »

Chessqueen wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:17 pm Or the same Opening with a little twist depending what the opponent play, but still using the same ideas as recommended here ==>
[pgn]Event "Live Chess"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2022.04.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Krushme-inchess"]
[Black "ayushdeyindia"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1505"]
[ECO "D04"]
[Opening "Colle"]
[Variation "3...Bf5"]
[WhiteElo "1658"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "29"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 Bf5 4. c3 e6 5. Bd3 Bg6 6. O-O Bd6 7. Re1 O-O 8.
Bc2 c5 9. Nbd2 cxd4 10. cxd4 Nc6 11. Bxg6 fxg6 12. e4 dxe4 13. Nxe4 Nxe4
14. Rxe4 Rf6 15. Bg5 1-0[/pgn]
How The Hell Are you gonna use Some Subtle Transpositional Scheme If you Only know 1-2-3 Openings? Hahahaha... LMAO
it's Not Going To Happen..So This Guy You want to send him travelling around Europa Trying to Gain FIDE points by hoping he goes to Tournaments that Nobody knows who he is in the hope his opening preparation (Or Lack Of)..Holds Up Somehow? You better be "Booked Up and Prepped & Ready" Online Or Over The Board...."Tournament Or Club" :) :wink:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by Chessqueen »

supersharp77 wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 12:34 am
Chessqueen wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:17 pm Or the same Opening with a little twist depending what the opponent play, but still using the same ideas as recommended here ==>
[pgn]Event "Live Chess"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2022.04.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Krushme-inchess"]
[Black "ayushdeyindia"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1505"]
[ECO "D04"]
[Opening "Colle"]
[Variation "3...Bf5"]
[WhiteElo "1658"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "29"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 Bf5 4. c3 e6 5. Bd3 Bg6 6. O-O Bd6 7. Re1 O-O 8.
Bc2 c5 9. Nbd2 cxd4 10. cxd4 Nc6 11. Bxg6 fxg6 12. e4 dxe4 13. Nxe4 Nxe4
14. Rxe4 Rf6 15. Bg5 1-0[/pgn]
How The Hell Are you gonna use Some Subtle Transpositional Scheme If you Only know 1-2-3 Openings? Hahahaha... LMAO
it's Not Going To Happen..So This Guy You want to send him travelling around Europa Trying to Gain FIDE points by hoping he goes to Tournaments that Nobody knows who he is in the hope his opening preparation (Or Lack Of)..Holds Up Somehow? You better be "Booked Up and Prepped & Ready" Online Or Over The Board...."Tournament Or Club" :) :wink:
Bobby Fischer was a believer that in order to defeat all the Russians GMs when they prepared different openings, he had to play one Opening 1.e4 by almost always playing the same first move as White, he limited the number of potential openings preparation done by the Russians team that always accompanied the World Champion Spassky and he limited the number of potential opening that he needed to memorized. By him always playing 1.e4 he was guaranteeing, in most cases, to go into either a Ruy Lopez, a Caro Kahn, a Sicilian, a French. or a King's Indian. Fischer could then focus all his attention on Mastering those particular Openings, instead of trying to be Jack of all trades (Openings), but master of none of the Openings. Looking at Fisher games we see a total of 198 Ruy Lopez, 197 Sicilian, 127 French, 52 Caro Kahn and 29 King's Indian. What is amazing to notice is that Fischer only played 31 games in the database where he started with 1.d4

Note: I am pretty sure that Fischer was familiar with most of the Openings, but since he was 12 he specialized in 1.e4 where he was almost unbeatable :roll: :lol: :mrgreen:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by Chessqueen »

Chessqueen wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:57 pm
supersharp77 wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 12:34 am
Chessqueen wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:17 pm Or the same Opening with a little twist depending what the opponent play, but still using the same ideas as recommended here ==>
[pgn]Event "Live Chess"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2022.04.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Krushme-inchess"]
[Black "ayushdeyindia"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1505"]
[ECO "D04"]
[Opening "Colle"]
[Variation "3...Bf5"]
[WhiteElo "1658"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "29"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 Bf5 4. c3 e6 5. Bd3 Bg6 6. O-O Bd6 7. Re1 O-O 8.
Bc2 c5 9. Nbd2 cxd4 10. cxd4 Nc6 11. Bxg6 fxg6 12. e4 dxe4 13. Nxe4 Nxe4
14. Rxe4 Rf6 15. Bg5 1-0[/pgn]
How The Hell Are you gonna use Some Subtle Transpositional Scheme If you Only know 1-2-3 Openings? Hahahaha... LMAO
it's Not Going To Happen..So This Guy You want to send him travelling around Europa Trying to Gain FIDE points by hoping he goes to Tournaments that Nobody knows who he is in the hope his opening preparation (Or Lack Of)..Holds Up Somehow? You better be "Booked Up and Prepped & Ready" Online Or Over The Board...."Tournament Or Club" :) :wink:
Bobby Fischer was a believer that in order to defeat all the Russians GMs when they prepared different openings, he had to play one Opening 1.e4 https://chessonly.com/bobby-fischer/ by almost always playing the same first move as White, he limited the number of potential openings preparation done by the Russians team that always accompanied the World Champion Spassky and he limited the number of potential opening that he needed to memorized. By him always playing 1.e4 he was guaranteeing, in most cases, to go into either a Ruy Lopez, a Caro Kahn, a Sicilian, a French. or a King's Indian. Fischer could then focus all his attention on Mastering those particular Openings, instead of trying to be Jack of all trades (Openings), but master of none of the Openings. Looking at Fisher games we see a total of 198 Ruy Lopez, 197 Sicilian, 127 French, 52 Caro Kahn and 29 King's Indian. What is amazing to notice is that Fischer only played 31 games in the database where he started with 1.d4

Note: I am pretty sure that Fischer was familiar with most of the Openings, and could possibly had played 50 Elo below his top Elo when he played 1.e4, but since he was 12 he specialized in 1.e4 where he was almost unbeatable and played it in most of his important tournaments and matches and even World championship :roll:
supersharp77
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:54 am
Location: Southwest USA

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by supersharp77 »

Chessqueen wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:57 pm
supersharp77 wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 12:34 am
Chessqueen wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:17 pm Or the same Opening with a little twist depending what the opponent play, but still using the same ideas as recommended here ==>
[pgn]Event "Live Chess"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2022.04.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Krushme-inchess"]
[Black "ayushdeyindia"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1505"]
[ECO "D04"]
[Opening "Colle"]
[Variation "3...Bf5"]
[WhiteElo "1658"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "29"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 Bf5 4. c3 e6 5. Bd3 Bg6 6. O-O Bd6 7. Re1 O-O 8.
Bc2 c5 9. Nbd2 cxd4 10. cxd4 Nc6 11. Bxg6 fxg6 12. e4 dxe4 13. Nxe4 Nxe4
14. Rxe4 Rf6 15. Bg5 1-0[/pgn]
How The Hell Are you gonna use Some Subtle Transpositional Scheme If you Only know 1-2-3 Openings? Hahahaha... LMAO
it's Not Going To Happen..So This Guy You want to send him travelling around Europa Trying to Gain FIDE points by hoping he goes to Tournaments that Nobody knows who he is in the hope his opening preparation (Or Lack Of)..Holds Up Somehow? You better be "Booked Up and Prepped & Ready" Online Or Over The Board...."Tournament Or Club" :) :wink:
Bobby Fischer was a believer that in order to defeat all the Russians GMs when they prepared different openings, he had to play one Opening 1.e4 by almost always playing the same first move as White, he limited the number of potential openings preparation done by the Russians team that always accompanied the World Champion Spassky and he limited the number of potential opening that he needed to memorized. By him always playing 1.e4 he was guaranteeing, in most cases, to go into either a Ruy Lopez, a Caro Kahn, a Sicilian, a French. or a King's Indian. Fischer could then focus all his attention on Mastering those particular Openings, instead of trying to be Jack of all trades (Openings), but master of none of the Openings. Looking at Fisher games we see a total of 198 Ruy Lopez, 197 Sicilian, 127 French, 52 Caro Kahn and 29 King's Indian. What is amazing to notice is that Fischer only played 31 games in the database where he started with 1.d4

Note: I am pretty sure that Fischer was familiar with most of the Openings, but since he was 12 he specialized in 1.e4 where he was almost unbeatable :roll: :lol: :mrgreen:
Wrong...Wrong......Wrong......Fischer Actually Enjoyed Playing The E4 Lines...(Sharpness) I believe because he was able to more easily get the type of position he liked and because he preferred 'Open Games' over the more closed or semi open games....Keep In Mind That In The World Championship Match Games What Does Fischer End Up Playing A few times? 'Queens Gambit Positions'...It's Likely He was holding back his Preparation for some sort Of "Surprise Value" and it worked (At Least short term it did)...I don't believe in "Chess Shortcuts".....The Openings Must be learned and understood..Games Must be Played and Played Over....The Boardwork & Study has to be done to reach the Highest Levels...Opening...Middle Game....Endings....Tactics......Strategy....+ Psych Works....Then you have no issues...putting the Patzers in their Places!....! :) :wink:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by Chessqueen »

supersharp77 wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:17 am
Chessqueen wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:57 pm
supersharp77 wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 12:34 am
Chessqueen wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:17 pm Or the same Opening with a little twist depending what the opponent play, but still using the same ideas as recommended here ==>
[pgn]Event "Live Chess"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2022.04.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Krushme-inchess"]
[Black "ayushdeyindia"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1505"]
[ECO "D04"]
[Opening "Colle"]
[Variation "3...Bf5"]
[WhiteElo "1658"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "29"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 Bf5 4. c3 e6 5. Bd3 Bg6 6. O-O Bd6 7. Re1 O-O 8.
Bc2 c5 9. Nbd2 cxd4 10. cxd4 Nc6 11. Bxg6 fxg6 12. e4 dxe4 13. Nxe4 Nxe4
14. Rxe4 Rf6 15. Bg5 1-0[/pgn]
How The Hell Are you gonna use Some Subtle Transpositional Scheme If you Only know 1-2-3 Openings? Hahahaha... LMAO
it's Not Going To Happen..So This Guy You want to send him travelling around Europa Trying to Gain FIDE points by hoping he goes to Tournaments that Nobody knows who he is in the hope his opening preparation (Or Lack Of)..Holds Up Somehow? You better be "Booked Up and Prepped & Ready" Online Or Over The Board...."Tournament Or Club" :) :wink:
Bobby Fischer was a believer that in order to defeat all the Russians GMs when they prepared different openings, he had to play one Opening 1.e4 by almost always playing the same first move as White, he limited the number of potential openings preparation done by the Russians team that always accompanied the World Champion Spassky and he limited the number of potential opening that he needed to memorized. By him always playing 1.e4 he was guaranteeing, in most cases, to go into either a Ruy Lopez, a Caro Kahn, a Sicilian, a French. or a King's Indian. Fischer could then focus all his attention on Mastering those particular Openings, instead of trying to be Jack of all trades (Openings), but master of none of the Openings. Looking at Fisher games we see a total of 198 Ruy Lopez, 197 Sicilian, 127 French, 52 Caro Kahn and 29 King's Indian. What is amazing to notice is that Fischer only played 31 games in the database where he started with 1.d4

Note: I am pretty sure that Fischer was familiar with most of the Openings, but since he was 12 he specialized in 1.e4 where he was almost unbeatable :roll: :lol: :mrgreen:
Wrong...Wrong......Wrong......Fischer Actually Enjoyed Playing The E4 Lines...(Sharpness) I believe because he was able to more easily get the type of position he liked and because he preferred 'Open Games' over the more closed or semi open games....Keep In Mind That In The World Championship Match Games What Does Fischer End Up Playing A few times? 'Queens Gambit Positions'...It's Likely He was holding back his Preparation for some sort Of "Surprise Value" and it worked (At Least short term it did)...I don't believe in "Chess Shortcuts".....The Openings Must be learned and understood..Games Must be Played and Played Over....The Boardwork & Study has to be done to reach the Highest Levels...Opening...Middle Game....Endings....Tactics......Strategy....+ Psych Works....Then you have no issues...putting the Patzers in their Places!....! :) :wink:
Can you please explain what part of my statement is wrong, it is understood that he always love to play explosive open positions which is what he got most of the time by playing 1.e4. Fischer was convinced that 1.e4 openings were best, and those openings typically led to middle games that best suited his style of play and in which he was most comfortable and knowledgeable about. Fischer had a remarkably narrow opening repertoire for a professional, but he knew all the openings & defenses he played better than almost anyone else but the main reason according to his closest friend was to prevent the Russian GMs from finding cooked openings against him and that is why he always or 98% of the time opened with 1.e4. and he limited the number of potential opening that he needed to memorized. By him always playing 1.e4 he was guaranteeing, in most cases, to go into either a Ruy Lopez, a Caro Kahn, a Sicilian, a French. or a King's Indian. Fischer could then focus all his attention on Mastering those particular Openings, instead of trying to be Jack of all trades (Openings), but master of none of the Openings. Looking at Fisher games we see a total of 198 Ruy Lopez, 197 Sicilian, 127 French, 52 Caro Kahn and 29 King's Indian. What is amazing to notice is that Fischer only played 31 games in the database where he started with 1.d4
supersharp77
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:54 am
Location: Southwest USA

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by supersharp77 »

Chessqueen wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:54 am
supersharp77 wrote: Wed Apr 06, 2022 2:17 am
Chessqueen wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 2:57 pm
supersharp77 wrote: Sun Apr 03, 2022 12:34 am
Chessqueen wrote: Sat Apr 02, 2022 4:17 pm Or the same Opening with a little twist depending what the opponent play, but still using the same ideas as recommended here ==>
[pgn]Event "Live Chess"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2022.04.02"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Krushme-inchess"]
[Black "ayushdeyindia"]
[Result "1-0"]
[BlackElo "1505"]
[ECO "D04"]
[Opening "Colle"]
[Variation "3...Bf5"]
[WhiteElo "1658"]
[TimeControl "300+5"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "29"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 Bf5 4. c3 e6 5. Bd3 Bg6 6. O-O Bd6 7. Re1 O-O 8.
Bc2 c5 9. Nbd2 cxd4 10. cxd4 Nc6 11. Bxg6 fxg6 12. e4 dxe4 13. Nxe4 Nxe4
14. Rxe4 Rf6 15. Bg5 1-0[/pgn]
How The Hell Are you gonna use Some Subtle Transpositional Scheme If you Only know 1-2-3 Openings? Hahahaha... LMAO
it's Not Going To Happen..So This Guy You want to send him travelling around Europa Trying to Gain FIDE points by hoping he goes to Tournaments that Nobody knows who he is in the hope his opening preparation (Or Lack Of)..Holds Up Somehow? You better be "Booked Up and Prepped & Ready" Online Or Over The Board...."Tournament Or Club" :) :wink:
Bobby Fischer was a believer that in order to defeat all the Russians GMs when they prepared different openings, he had to play one Opening 1.e4 by almost always playing the same first move as White, he limited the number of potential openings preparation done by the Russians team that always accompanied the World Champion Spassky and he limited the number of potential opening that he needed to memorized. By him always playing 1.e4 he was guaranteeing, in most cases, to go into either a Ruy Lopez, a Caro Kahn, a Sicilian, a French. or a King's Indian. Fischer could then focus all his attention on Mastering those particular Openings, instead of trying to be Jack of all trades (Openings), but master of none of the Openings. Looking at Fisher games we see a total of 198 Ruy Lopez, 197 Sicilian, 127 French, 52 Caro Kahn and 29 King's Indian. What is amazing to notice is that Fischer only played 31 games in the database where he started with 1.d4

Note: I am pretty sure that Fischer was familiar with most of the Openings, but since he was 12 he specialized in 1.e4 where he was almost unbeatable :roll: :lol: :mrgreen:
Wrong...Wrong......Wrong......Fischer Actually Enjoyed Playing The E4 Lines...(Sharpness) I believe because he was able to more easily get the type of position he liked and because he preferred 'Open Games' over the more closed or semi open games....Keep In Mind That In The World Championship Match Games What Does Fischer End Up Playing A few times? 'Queens Gambit Positions'...It's Likely He was holding back his Preparation for some sort Of "Surprise Value" and it worked (At Least short term it did)...I don't believe in "Chess Shortcuts".....The Openings Must be learned and understood..Games Must be Played and Played Over....The Boardwork & Study has to be done to reach the Highest Levels...Opening...Middle Game....Endings....Tactics......Strategy....+ Psych Works....Then you have no issues...putting the Patzers in their Places!....! :) :wink:
Can you please explain what part of my statement is wrong, it is understood that he always love to play explosive open positions which is what he got most of the time by playing 1.e4. Fischer was convinced that 1.e4 openings were best, and those openings typically led to middle games that best suited his style of play and in which he was most comfortable and knowledgeable about. Fischer had a remarkably narrow opening repertoire for a professional, but he knew all the openings & defenses he played better than almost anyone else but the main reason according to his closest friend was to prevent the Russian GMs from finding cooked openings against him and that is why he always or 98% of the time opened with 1.e4. and he limited the number of potential opening that he needed to memorized. By him always playing 1.e4 he was guaranteeing, in most cases, to go into either a Ruy Lopez, a Caro Kahn, a Sicilian, a French. or a King's Indian. Fischer could then focus all his attention on Mastering those particular Openings, instead of trying to be Jack of all trades (Openings), but master of none of the Openings. Looking at Fisher games we see a total of 198 Ruy Lopez, 197 Sicilian, 127 French, 52 Caro Kahn and 29 King's Indian. What is amazing to notice is that Fischer only played 31 games in the database where he started with 1.d4
Well...I wouldn't necessarily use the Word "Explosive" In reference to E4 Openings...you could say open games...(although the Ruy Lopez some might say is a closed type of game)...But in many Ruy Lopez games white has the option of opening the game up.. When you say "Sicilian" well thats alot (a ton) of complex theory! When you say Kings Indian (grunfeld) or French....well that's a whole lot of theory there...I saw or read somewhere that Mr Fischer (Robert J) was getting updates by telex and also had a subscription to the famous Russian Chess Magazine (The Shakhmatny Bulletin) back in the 60's & 70's... plus he was on the chess curcuit so he current on the main theory...I did notice in Reading "New In Chess" (I had a subscription for a while) Most Top GM's don't put the real analysis in the magazine notes...only hints or generalities..Many Top Gm's might save some/lots "cooks" or surprises for many years waiting for a special occasion to "SPRING" That 'Cooked Line' on the opponent...These "lines" seem constantly in Flux...a good example is the talk chess debate on whether G-4 (Grobs Attack) is sound or unsound...The Dragon as Been Busted and Unbusted Many times...Same for the Kings Indian...(currently most GM's think its busted it seems)...They go in and out of favor...Thats what makes it interesting and Fascinating....The Caro Kann many would say is a "Busted Line" Currently....Blacks white Squared Bishop in the French Defense....IS a Problem...No Doubts...D-4 (who a lot of the people I trained with and grew up with in the midwest) is actually easier to learn.....you avoid all the tricky E-4 Gambits..(Thats A lot!!) They Just played Colle or London Systems over and over....Its so Simple....But I would find that somewhat boring day in and day out to do...With D-4 all you have to deal with is Kings indian..Old Indian..Grunfeld...Dutch...Slav..Accepted QG and Declined QD and Queens indian Nimzo and Finally Benoni and The *-Danger-* of the Benko/Volga Gambit lines... :) :wink:
User avatar
Ponti
Posts: 504
Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:13 am
Location: Curitiba - PR - BRAZIL
Full name: Aloisio Ponti Lopes

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by Ponti »

jshriver wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:54 am Looking for recommendations for a good book to read and learn various openings.
Don't do that.

1) Choose some openings to study and play. See lots of games in these openings - commented games are better. Each variation has its own manouvers, tactics, strategy, sacrifices, endings. Colect the best games on your prefered variations, store them in a chess database. Go ahead and do some flashcards with the most important positions or moves you missed or misplayed. Read a book about that opening.

2) Read commented game collections. You'll learn opening principles and see many different openings (and tactis, and strategy, and endgames... )

3) Use your time studying endgames. I'm serious. For example: Did you already read De la Villa's "100 endgames you must know" ? Do you know them all "inside out", by heart ?

Best regards,
A. Ponti
AMD Ryzen 1800x, Windows 10.
FIDE current ratings: standard 1913, rapid 1931
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by Chessqueen »

Ponti wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:32 pm
jshriver wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:54 am Looking for recommendations for a good book to read and learn various openings.
Don't do that.

1) Choose some openings to study and play. See lots of games in these openings - commented games are better. Each variation has its own manouvers, tactics, strategy, sacrifices, endings. Colect the best games on your prefered variations, store them in a chess database. Go ahead and do some flashcards with the most important positions or moves you missed or misplayed. Read a book about that opening.

2) Read commented game collections. You'll learn opening principles and see many different openings (and tactis, and strategy, and endgames... )

3) Use your time studying endgames. I'm serious. For example: Did you already read De la Villa's "100 endgames you must know" ? Do you know them all "inside out", by heart ?

Best regards,
People give chess Opening too much priority, when in reality 75% of the game are either won or lost in the middlegame tactical or strategical battle. For instance I played this game today by visiting a local Chess Club against Steve rated 1950, did NOT even used a known Opening, or at least I did NOT knew that I was using any opening at all, the way I looked at it during the game was that I way going to play a King Gambit with the Black pieces to get him out of his opening preparation, later I replayed that particular game and imputed into my computer and it say that I played a Giuoco Pianissimo Dubois Variation, but I did not knew it, I thought I tried to play a King Gambit with the Black pieces. What my trainer constantly say to me is that most chess games are won or lost in the middlegame, not to pay too much attention to any particular chess opening as long as I use sound opening principles. Anyway here is the game that I played today :roll:

[pgn][Date "2022.04.16"]
[White "Steve"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[BlackElo "1770"]
[ECO "C50"]
[Opening "Giuoco Pianissimo"]
[Time "11:49:36"]
[Variation "Dubois Variation"]
[WhiteElo "1950"]
[TimeControl "600+5"]
[Termination "normal"]
[PlyCount "95"]
[WhiteType "human"]
[BlackType "human"]

1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 f5 4. d3 Bc5 5. Ng5 f4 6. Nf7 Qh4 7. O-O Nf6 8.
Nxh8 Ng4 9. h3 Nxf2 10. Rxf2 Qxf2+ 11. Kh2 f3 12. Qh1 Nd4 13. Bf7+ Kf8 14.
Nd2 Ne2 15. Nf1 d6 16. Bg5 Nf4 17. Bxf4 exf4 18. Bh5 g5 19. Bxf3 g4 20.
Bxg4 Bxg4 21. c3 Qxb2 22. hxg4 Qxa1 23. d4 Bb6 24. g3 Qxc3 25. gxf4 Kg8 26.
Nf7 Kxf7 27. Kg2 Qc2+ 28. Kf3 Qd1+ 29. Kg3 Qd3+ 30. Qf3 Qxd4 31. Kh3 Re8
32. Ng3 Qf2 33. Qb3+ Kf8 34. Qc3 Qxf4 35. Qh8+ Ke7 36. Qxh7+ Kd8 37. Qf5 Rh8+
38. Nh5 Qh6 39. e5 Rf8 40. Qe4 Qc1 41. Nf6 Rh8+ 42. Nh5 Qc3+ 43. Kg2 Bd4
44. Kf1 Rf8+ 45. Nf6 Bxe5 46. g5 Bxf6 47. gxf6 Qxf6+ 48. Ke2 {White
resigns} *[/pgn]
supersharp77
Posts: 1266
Joined: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:54 am
Location: Southwest USA

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by supersharp77 »

Chessqueen wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:54 pm
Ponti wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:32 pm
jshriver wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:54 am Looking for recommendations for a good book to read and learn various openings.
Don't do that.

1) Choose some openings to study and play. See lots of games in these openings - commented games are better. Each variation has its own manouvers, tactics, strategy, sacrifices, endings. Colect the best games on your prefered variations, store them in a chess database. Go ahead and do some flashcards with the most important positions or moves you missed or misplayed. Read a book about that opening.

2) Read commented game collections. You'll learn opening principles and see many different openings (and tactis, and strategy, and endgames... )

3) Use your time studying endgames. I'm serious. For example: Did you already read De la Villa's "100 endgames you must know" ? Do you know them all "inside out", by heart ?

Best regards,
People give chess Opening too much priority, when in reality 75% of the game are either won or lost in the middlegame tactical or strategical battle. For instance I played this game today by visiting a local Chess Club against Steve rated 1950, did NOT even used a known Opening, or at least I did NOT knew that I was using any opening at all, the way I looked at it during the game was that I way going to play a King Gambit with the Black pieces to get him out of his opening preparation, later I replayed that particular game and imputed into my computer and it say that I played a Giuoco Pianissimo Dubois Variation, but I did not knew it, I thought I tried to play a King Gambit with the Black pieces. What my trainer constantly say to me is that most chess games are won or lost in the middlegame, not to pay too much attention to any particular chess opening as long as I use sound opening principles. Anyway here is the game that I played today :roll:

{White
resigns} 0-1 E4 Quiet Game
Well This Situation Reminded me Of Why I really needed to Learn Openings...Let Me Tell you a Story... I was in Junior High and We had a Budding Little Junior High Chess Club Scene..So One Of The Guys Said.."Hey Lets Go After School to This Chess Club Around The Corner".. So after School on Certain days we would go and play coffeehouse chess... Now This place was The Original "Chess House" Now a Legend In The USA Chess Scene as A Place you can buy Chess Computers & Books..etc..But In Those days (1970's) The "Chess House" Sold Only Books & Chess Equipment..and also You could buy a Coffee or tea & a Donut and play Chess by the hour (I forget The costs).. Now The Owner Of the Chess House at The Time was a Character By The Name Of Jack Winters (A former State Champion) And His game was Blitz for Cash money..(Low or High Stakes) Now Jack Played mostly 99.99% Blitz (Rise & Fly Blitz 5 minutes) And Mr Winters (RIP) Played only GAMBITS...and Jack Played them ALL...So if you didn't know the openings extremely well...You had no CHANCE...Jack Winters Turned EVERYTHING into some sort of GAMBIT...He was going to SAC something....and Do it EARLY....He Liked weird Piece Imbalances..and Wild Time Scrambles with pieces flying all over the place...

Anyway Back to this game situation E4 E5 Nf3 Nc6 Bc4 F5?! known As The Complex And Dangerous 'Italian Rousseau Gambit'...
https://chess-teacher.com/rousseau-gambit-italian-game/

https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/1177449
"Rousseau GambitThe Rousseau Gambit is a dubious chess opening characterised by the moves:1. e4 e5 2.nf3 nc6 3.bc4 f5

The gambit is named after Eugéne Rousseau. White's best response is to simply decline the gambit and continue by supporting the "e" pawn and developing with 4. . The resulting position is similar to a King's Gambit Declined with Black playing the gambit with less development, and White's king bishop pointing at Black's weakened kingside—not very comfortable for Black. Black will have trouble castling kingside and Ng5 is a likely threat. White's position is better, but still requires careful play.

Key themes for White are to attack Black's kingside and to avoid attempts by Black to simplify the position via exchanges. Exchanges involving White's light bishop are particularly suspect.

The best advice for Black is to not play this gambit as it is considered refuted."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-3dsGcJeaQ "The Rousseau Gambit | Risky Opening Choice for Black in the Italian Game | IM Alex Astaneh"

My Brief Analysis Shows This Opening Line Is Tricky and Complex...Full of Traps & Surprises with Quite a Bit Of Danger for the White Pieces...Greed (Nf7) can lead to Quick Losses...Even Quick Castling Did Not Help White in The Featured Game!!

[Event "Coffehouse Game 2022"]
[Site "Chess Club"]
[Date "2022.04.18?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Player 1 (Unknown"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C50"]
[Annotator "Ross/Hydra-X 2020"]
[PlyCount "30"]
[TimeControl "Unknown"]
{64MB, General.ctg}

[pgn] 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 f5 ?! 4. d3 (4. O-O ? fxe4 !)
(4. d4 !? exd4 5. Bg5 (5. Ng5 Ne5 !? 6. Bxg8 Rxg8 7. Bf4 !? (7. Qxd4 ! d6 8.
O-O Be7 9. f4 !)) 5... Be7 (5... Bb4+ 6. c3 Be7 7. Bf4 (7. Bxe7 Qxe7 8. e5
Nxe5 9. O-O Nxc4 10. Re1 Ne3 11. Qxd4 Nc2 12. Rxe7+ Nxe7 13. Qd1 Nxa1 14. Nbd2
O-O 15. Qxa1) 7... fxe4) 6. Bxe7 Ngxe7 7. Ng5 d5 8. exd5 Nxd5 9. O-O !? Qxg5
10. Bxd5 Bd7 11. Re1+ Kd8 12. Nd2 +-) 4... Bc5 $2 (4... f4 !? 5. d4 ! (5. g3
!? g5 ?! 6. h4 !!) 5... d6) 5. Ng5 f4 ! 6. Nf7 ? Qh4 ! 7. O-O ?! (7. g3 ! Qf6 8.
Bxf4 ?! (8. d4 !? Bxd4 9. gxf4 Qh4 10. Qf3 !) 8... exf4 9. Qh5 ?! (9. gxf4 d5
$3) 9... Qxb2 $1 10. Nd6+ Ke7) 7... Nf6 $1 8. Nxh8 Ng4 9. h3 $6 (9. Bf7+ Ke7
10. h3 Nxf2 11. Rxf2 Qxf2+ 12. Kh1 f3 13. Qxf3 ?? Qg1##!) 9... Nxf2 10. Rxf2
Qxf2+ 11. Kh2 f3 12. Qh1 !? (12. Qxf3 ? Qg1+ 13. Kg3 Qe1+!) 12... Nd4 13. Bf7+
Kf8 14. Nd2 Ne2 15. Nf1 d6 {And Black won Shortly...} 0-1
[/pgn]

A Dangerous Line To "Stumble Into" And Quite Embarrassing Also..."Live and Learn"... :) :wink:
Chessqueen
Posts: 5685
Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:16 am
Location: Moving
Full name: Jorge Picado

Re: Recommendations for Learning Openings

Post by Chessqueen »

supersharp77 wrote: Tue Apr 19, 2022 4:08 am
Chessqueen wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 11:54 pm
Ponti wrote: Sat Apr 16, 2022 8:32 pm
jshriver wrote: Fri Mar 11, 2022 10:54 am Looking for recommendations for a good book to read and learn various openings.
Don't do that.

1) Choose some openings to study and play. See lots of games in these openings - commented games are better. Each variation has its own manouvers, tactics, strategy, sacrifices, endings. Colect the best games on your prefered variations, store them in a chess database. Go ahead and do some flashcards with the most important positions or moves you missed or misplayed. Read a book about that opening.

2) Read commented game collections. You'll learn opening principles and see many different openings (and tactis, and strategy, and endgames... )

3) Use your time studying endgames. I'm serious. For example: Did you already read De la Villa's "100 endgames you must know" ? Do you know them all "inside out", by heart ?

Best regards,
People give chess Opening too much priority, when in reality 75% of the game are either won or lost in the middlegame tactical or strategical battle. For instance I played this game today by visiting a local Chess Club against Steve rated 1950, did NOT even used a known Opening, or at least I did NOT knew that I was using any opening at all, the way I looked at it during the game was that I way going to play a King Gambit with the Black pieces to get him out of his opening preparation, later I replayed that particular game and imputed into my computer and it say that I played a Giuoco Pianissimo Dubois Variation, but I did not knew it, I thought I tried to play a King Gambit with the Black pieces. What my trainer constantly say to me is that most chess games are won or lost in the middlegame, not to pay too much attention to any particular chess opening as long as I use sound opening principles. Anyway here is the game that I played today :roll:

{White
resigns} 0-1 E4 Quiet Game
Well This Situation Reminded me Of Why I really needed to Learn Openings...Let Me Tell you a Story... I was in Junior High and We had a Budding Little Junior High Chess Club Scene..So One Of The Guys Said.."Hey Lets Go After School to This Chess Club Around The Corner".. So after School on Certain days we would go and play coffeehouse chess... Now This place was The Original "Chess House" Now a Legend In The USA Chess Scene as A Place you can buy Chess Computers & Books..etc..But In Those days (1970's) The "Chess House" Sold Only Books & Chess Equipment..and also You could buy a Coffee or tea & a Donut and play Chess by the hour (I forget The costs).. Now The Owner Of the Chess House at The Time was a Character By The Name Of Jack Winters (A former State Champion) And His game was Blitz for Cash money..(Low or High Stakes) Now Jack Played mostly 99.99% Blitz (Rise & Fly Blitz 5 minutes) And Mr Winters (RIP) Played only GAMBITS...and Jack Played them ALL...So if you didn't know the openings extremely well...You had no CHANCE...Jack Winters Turned EVERYTHING into some sort of GAMBIT...He was going to SAC something....and Do it EARLY....He Liked weird Piece Imbalances..and Wild Time Scrambles with pieces flying all over the place...

Anyway Back to this game situation E4 E5 Nf3 Nc6 Bc4 F5?! known As The Complex And Dangerous 'Italian Rousseau Gambit'...
https://chess-teacher.com/rousseau-gambit-italian-game/

https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/1177449
"Rousseau GambitThe Rousseau Gambit is a dubious chess opening characterised by the moves:1. e4 e5 2.nf3 nc6 3.bc4 f5

The gambit is named after Eugéne Rousseau. White's best response is to simply decline the gambit and continue by supporting the "e" pawn and developing with 4. . The resulting position is similar to a King's Gambit Declined with Black playing the gambit with less development, and White's king bishop pointing at Black's weakened kingside—not very comfortable for Black. Black will have trouble castling kingside and Ng5 is a likely threat. White's position is better, but still requires careful play.

Key themes for White are to attack Black's kingside and to avoid attempts by Black to simplify the position via exchanges. Exchanges involving White's light bishop are particularly suspect.

The best advice for Black is to not play this gambit as it is considered refuted."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-3dsGcJeaQ "The Rousseau Gambit | Risky Opening Choice for Black in the Italian Game | IM Alex Astaneh"

My Brief Analysis Shows This Opening Line Is Tricky and Complex...Full of Traps & Surprises with Quite a Bit Of Danger for the White Pieces...Greed (Nf7) can lead to Quick Losses...Even Quick Castling Did Not Help White in The Featured Game!!

A Dangerous Line To "Stumble Into" And Quite Embarrassing Also..."Live and Learn"... :) :wink:
The best reply for White is d4! but it is not clear, yet. I just found this video on Youtube ==> explaining all the traps

[Event "Coffehouse Game 2022"]
[Site "Chess Club"]
[Date "2022.04.18?"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Player 1 (Unknown"]
[Black "ChessQueen"]
[Result "0-1"]
[ECO "C50"]
[Annotator "Ross/Hydra-X 2020"]
[PlyCount "30"]
[TimeControl "Unknown"]
{64MB, General.ctg}

[pgn] 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 f5 ?! 4.d4 ![/pgn]