FCP Tourney-KI started January 02nd, 2022

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Conner,

completly wrong ... in "Frank seemed to think"

What I am thinking I wrote in detail.

Best
Frank

[connor_mcmonigle]

Hi Conner,

completly wrong ... in "Frank seemed to think"

What I am thinking I wrote in detail.

Best
Frank

Here's the quote I was referencing from your earlier message which lead me to believe you thought Norman developed his own network:

Code: Select all

Controversial is Fire 8 MC.3 NN.
In my humble opinion the programmer developed an own Neural Network.

[Guenther]

Hi Conner,

completly wrong ... in "Frank seemed to think"

What I am thinking I wrote in detail.

Best
Frank

Well you wrote this:

Code: Select all

Controversial is Fire 8 MC.3 NN.
In my humble opinion the programmer developed an own Neural Network.

and Connor (will you ever learn at least to read/write his name correct or is it intentionally?) wrote this:

I'm not dictating the rules. I'm attempting to correct misinformation and others' misconceptions. Frank seemed to think you had produced your own network which is definitively false.

So it is clear what you thought initially and Connor (and me) corrected this 'thinking' or 'humble opinion'.

Why you don't quote what you replied to esacapes me here, it would immediately show the truth.
Everything is clear and I don't see what should be discussed here regarding your initial 'thinking'?
If you later changed your thinking I cannot find it because the posts are difficcult to read, but that is irrelevant anyway.

And for the tiny funny simtest - it is completely useless because it depends on
what version of SF search Fire 8.3 NN is using (assuming as usual that it is 'highly modelled' after SF search)
and even more that the SF versions tested against did not use the same nn file, but very different ones.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Conner,

first sentence:
Controversial is Fire 8 MC.3 NN.

Can be see with your opinion about it.

Second sentence:

I can wrote:
"Fire includes 'Raptor', a top reinforcement learning network trained by Sergio Vieri

But if I do that ...

Maybe I should rename all NN engines to the name of the programmer, participate 1998 or 1999 in Leiden.
Never I heard before from the ideas he had. Chess programs used simply "learn files" at this time.

Seer 2.5.0 NN and than the name of the programmer from Leiden 1998?
Have forgotten his name ...

Is this in your interest?

And if I start with it ...
What is with the idea from Alessandro Damiani (Fortress).
Rotated indices / Rotated bitboards.

I remember on the young Alessandro and his nice eMails I got if he find out different things and he was very proud. He sent me a comment to that work ... I am very interesting what Prof. Hyatt is thinking. Prof Hyatt ... never gave a comment, month later.

All the sacred crows!

How many examples you need ...
I have time to give 100 or 200 ... how many you have interest to read?

How many others used what Alessandro do today and thinking ... all is mine!

If we break the causal chain 100 times again and again to a position we like we can build the opinion:
All is mine ... 100% originality.

The Stockfish team here and there.
I have a problem with Stockfish "Jesus-disciple" for some reasons ...
OK, I like the project also a lot ... but the view is an other!

In reality it is a never ending puzzle work all the programmers do.
A puzzle work often with own ideas!

Before we go in details with unrelevanted stuff we have to speak about the milestones.

Best
Frank

[Rebel]

Just create your own net like everybody else. I know it is a pain, but without pain no glory.

Not interested in kowtowing to you...

PS It's NOT everybody else, as I can probably name 6-8 engines (and more are appearing on github weekly) that are using data (fens/pgns) from other engines (not to mention Stockfish, and LC0).

True, but off topic, evading the point I made and thus misleading.

You know very well the big difference between using data from other engines and creating a network of that versus verbatim copying a network.

There is a lot creativity involved creating a strong network from whatever data.

[Rebel]

Just keep doing what you enjoy doing, Frank.

That is correct and so should you.

Nevertheless it's important to expose false information, when the facts are clear and understood everybody can make his own decisions.

[Frank Quisinsky]

Code: Select all

FCP Tourney-KI
run-6 after round 14 out of 30


         Name                       Games     Won     Draw     Lose       Pts         S-B         %

01. Stockfish 020622 NN dev       :   560  :  329+  :  231=  :    0-  :   444.5  : 119013.50  :  79.38%
02. Dragon 3 NN (Komodo)          :   560  :  316+  :  244=  :    0-  :   438.0  : 117334.50  :  78.21%
03. Fire 8 MC.3 NN                :   560  :  233+  :  320=  :    7-  :   393.0  : 104159.75  :  70.18%
04. Koivisto 8.9 NN               :   560  :  236+  :  310=  :   14-  :   391.0  : 102699.00  :  69.82%
05. SlowChess Blitz 2.9 NN        :   560  :  236+  :  308=  :   16-  :   390.0  : 102558.25  :  69.64%
06. Berserk 9 NN dev3             :   560  :  231+  :  312=  :   17-  :   387.0  : 101613.00  :  69.11%
07. Revenge 2.0 NN                :   560  :  214+  :  322=  :   24-  :   375.0  :  98062.00  :  66.96%
08. rofChade 3.0 NN               :   560  :  213+  :  313=  :   34-  :   369.5  :  96883.25  :  65.98%
09. RubiChess 20220223 NN         :   560  :  198+  :  330=  :   32-  :   363.0  :  94428.00  :  64.82%
10. Seer 2.5.0 NN                 :   560  :  191+  :  323=  :   46-  :   352.5  :  91610.25  :  62.95%
11. Arasan 23.3 NN                :   560  :  147+  :  364=  :   49-  :   329.0  :  85948.50  :  58.75%
12. Minic 3.22 NN                 :   560  :  149+  :  353=  :   58-  :   325.5  :  84680.25  :  58.13%
13. Igel 3.1.0 NN                 :   560  :  122+  :  385=  :   53-  :   314.5  :  82702.75  :  56.16%
14. Halogen 10.23 NN dev          :   560  :  134+  :  336=  :   90-  :   302.0  :  77332.00  :  53.93%
15. Ethereal 13.07                :   560  :  117+  :  360=  :   83-  :   297.0  :  76798.50  :  53.04%
16. Lc0 0.28.2 752187 CPU         :   560  :  113+  :  356=  :   91-  :   291.0  :  76416.75  :  51.96%
17. Clover 3.1 NN                 :   560  :  116+  :  349=  :   95-  :   290.5  :  74603.50  :  51.88%
18. Nemorino 6.09 NN dev          :   560  :  116+  :  347=  :   97-  :   289.5  :  74789.50  :  51.70%
19. Wasp 5.54 NN dev              :   560  :  117+  :  342=  :  101-  :   288.0  :  74435.00  :  51.43%
20. Booot 7.0 NN dev              :   560  :  101+  :  365=  :   94-  :   283.5  :  73352.75  :  50.63%
21. Tucano 10.00 NN               :   560  :   94+  :  362=  :  104-  :   275.0  :  70630.75  :  49.11%
22. Rebel 15x2 NN                 :   560  :  100+  :  344=  :  116-  :   272.0  :  70110.50  :  48.57%
23. Uralochka 3.36c NN            :   560  :   96+  :  346=  :  118-  :   269.0  :  69515.00  :  48.04%
24. Fritz 18 NN (Ginkgo)          :   560  :   90+  :  335=  :  135-  :   257.5  :  65642.50  :  45.98%
25. Velvet 3.3.0 NN               :   560  :   80+  :  320=  :  160-  :   240.0  :  60961.75  :  42.86%
26. Zahak 10.0 NN                 :   560  :   76+  :  319=  :  165-  :   235.5  :  59550.50  :  42.05%
27. Xiphos 0.6                    :   560  :   74+  :  312=  :  174-  :   230.0  :  58728.50  :  41.07%
28. Weiss 2.0                     :   560  :   67+  :  309=  :  184-  :   221.5  :  57199.50  :  39.55%
29. Combusken 2.0.0               :   560  :   64+  :  315=  :  181-  :   221.5  :  56534.00  :  39.55%
30. Schooner 2.2 XB               :   560  :   48+  :  325=  :  187-  :   210.5  :  53666.25  :  37.59%
31. Defenchess 2.3 dev            :   560  :   43+  :  330=  :  187-  :   208.0  :  53701.25  :  37.14%
32. Shredder 13                   :   560  :   58+  :  291=  :  211-  :   203.5  :  51397.75  :  36.34%
33. Laser 1.7                     :   560  :   54+  :  298=  :  208-  :   203.0  :  51296.75  :  36.25%
34. Hiarcs 15.1                   :   560  :   49+  :  304=  :  207-  :   201.0  :  51464.25  :  35.89%
35. Bit-Genie 9.19 dev            :   560  :   65+  :  272=  :  223-  :   201.0  :  51136.25  :  35.89%
36. DanaSah 9.0 NN                :   560  :   39+  :  316=  :  205-  :   197.0  :  51047.75  :  35.18%
37. Stash 33.0                    :   560  :   49+  :  291=  :  220-  :   194.5  :  49456.75  :  34.73%
38. Fizbo 2.0                     :   560  :   55+  :  276=  :  229-  :   193.0  :  49483.00  :  34.46%
39. Marvin 5.2.0 NN               :   560  :   43+  :  290=  :  227-  :   188.0  :  47497.50  :  33.57%
40. Chiron 5                      :   560  :   48+  :  273=  :  239-  :   184.5  :  45807.50  :  32.95%
41. Expositor 2WN29 NN            :   560  :   26+  :  268=  :  266-  :   160.0  :  41804.00  :  28.57%

I am using my chance to make the work from the programmers more public ...
A lot of readers in that thread these days!

Here the results from round 14 of 30 ...
Stockfish lost a bit in round 14, Wasp too ...



Rebel gains ground ... 22 points in that field ... a lot!
Looking here ...

Seer on 6 in that round!
Fire on 2 ...

Code: Select all

FCP Tourney-KI (run-6)
Results round 14 out of 30

                             1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
01. Dragon 3 NN (Komodo)     * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 1 ½ ½ 1 1 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 1 1 1 1  31.0/40
02. Fire 8 MC.3 NN           ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 1 1 ½ ½ 1 1 1 1 1 1  30.5/40
03. SlowChess Blitz 2.9 NN   ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1  29.5/40
04. Stockfish 020622 NN dev  ½ ½ ½ * 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 1 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 1 1 1  28.5/40
05. Berserk 9 NN dev3        ½ ½ ½ 0 * ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 ½ 1 1 ½ 1 1 1  27.5/40
06. Seer 2.5.0 NN            ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 1 ½ ½ 1 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 ½  27.0/40
07. Koivisto 8.9 NN          ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ * 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ 1 1 ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 ½  26.5/40  514.00
08. Revenge 2.0 NN           ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½  26.5/40  499.25
09. RubiChess 20220223 NN    0 ½ 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 ½ ½ 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 1 1 ½ 1 1  26.5/40  477.50
10. rofChade 3.0 NN          0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ * 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 1 ½ ½ 1 1 1 1 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 1  25.5/40
11. Igel 3.1.0 NN            0 ½ 0 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 * 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 1 ½ 1 ½ 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 0 1 1 ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ 1  25.0/40
12. Arasan 23.3 NN           ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 * ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 1 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 1 0 1 ½ 1  24.5/40
13. Minic 3.22 NN            0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 1 1 ½ 1 1 ½ 1 1  23.0/40
14. Halogen 10.23 NN dev     0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 1 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1  22.0/40  405.00
15. Rebel 15x2 NN            0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 1 ½ ½ 1 1 0 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 1  22.0/40  403.25
16. Ethereal 13.07           ½ 0 ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 0 1 ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 1  21.5/40
17. Uralochka 3.36c NN       ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ * 0 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 1 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 1 1 0 ½  20.0/40  372.50
18. Tucano 10.00 NN          ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 * 1 ½ 0 1 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 1 ½ 0 ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 1 0 1  20.0/40  371.50
19. Xiphos 0.6               ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 0 * 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 ½ 1 ½ 1  20.0/40  369.00
20. Booot 7.0 NN dev         0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 * ½ ½ 1 1 ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 0 ½ 1 ½ 1 1 1 ½ 1  19.5/40
21. Fritz 18 NN (Ginkgo)     ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ * ½ 0 ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 0 ½ ½  19.0/40
22. Lc0 0.28.2 752187 CPU    ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ * 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ 1 1 ½ 1 ½  18.5/40  354.50
23. Nemorino 6.09 NN dev     0 ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 0 ½ 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 0 1 1 * ½ 1 ½ 1 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½  18.5/40  344.00
24. Wasp 5.54 NN dev         ½ 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 0 0 ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ 0 1 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ 1 ½ 1 ½  18.5/40  331.50
25. Velvet 3.3.0 NN          0 0 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ 0 0 ½ 0 ½ 0 ½ 1 0 ½ 1 ½ 0 ½ * ½ ½ 0 1 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 0  18.0/40  342.50
26. Clover 3.1 NN            0 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 0 ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½  18.0/40  329.50
27. Weiss 2.0                ½ 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 0 1 ½ ½ * 0 ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 1 1 1 1  17.0/40
28. DanaSah 9.0 NN           ½ ½ 0 0 ½ 0 0 0 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 0 1 ½ 1 * ½ ½ ½ 1 0 1 ½ ½ 1 0 ½ ½ 1  16.5/40
29. Zahak 10.0 NN            0 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ 0 0 ½ 0 0 0 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½  16.0/40
30. Shredder 13              0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ½ ½ 0 1 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ 1 ½ ½ * ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 1 1  15.5/40  273.75
31. Laser 1.7                0 0 0 0 0 0 ½ 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ * ½ 0 ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 1  15.5/40  265.50
32. Marvin 5.2.0 NN          0 0 0 0 ½ ½ 0 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ 1 ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 1 ½ 1  15.0/40  261.25
33. Chiron 5                 0 0 0 0 0 ½ 0 0 0 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ 1 ½ ½ 1 ½ * ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½  15.0/40  257.50
34. Schooner 2.2 XB          ½ ½ 0 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 0 0 0 1 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 0 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ * ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½  14.5/40  272.50
35. Defenchess 2.3 dev       0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 0 ½ 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ * 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½  14.5/40  264.25
36. Hiarcs 15.1              0 0 0 0 0 0 ½ 0 0 ½ 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 0 ½ ½ 1 0 * ½ ½ 1 ½ 1  14.5/40  244.75
37. Stash 33.0               0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 0 ½ ½ 0 0 ½ 0 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ 1 1  13.5/40
38. Combusken 2.0.0          0 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ 1 0 ½ 0 ½ 0 0 ½ 0 0 0 ½ 0 0 0 0 1 ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ * ½ ½ ½  13.0/40
39. Fizbo 2.0                0 0 0 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 0 0 0 1 ½ ½ ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ * 0 ½  12.0/40
40. Bit-Genie 9.19 dev       0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ 0 0 1 1 ½ ½ ½ 0 ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ ½ 0 0 ½ 0 0 ½ ½ 0 ½ 1 * ½  11.5/40
41. Expositor 2WN29 NN       0 0 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 ½ 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ ½ 1 ½ 0 0 ½ 0 0 0 ½ ½ ½ 0 0 ½ ½ ½ *   9.0/40

Best
Frank

PS:
It's my thread about my tourney if I remember ...

[Frank Quisinsky]

And again to the programmer of Seer:

You added two sentence from me ...
And forgot the most important?

The first sentence:
https://www.amateurschach.de/main/_fcp-tourney-ki.htm

Rules, Note 2:
Please be informed that several programmers used NN (Neural Network) files based on Stockfish!
For more information have a look on the sites by the programmers!

And after all ...
The programmer of Fire have the information on his site.

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

Ah, forgotten ...

Pedro again ...

Please remember on comments in Winboard times ...

The chief from DanaSah spoken words of power ...
DanaSah listened in Trier, Germany and made place 28 with 16,5 points in round 14 of 30.

[Frank Quisinsky]

And for Günther again:

Magic ... what DanaSah do after Pedro's "Words of Power".
Pure Magic ... Reiki ... Distant Reiki (Iearn that for a long time).
That's NLP ...

Frank is complety confused!
Loopy!

I like that so mutch!