Stockfish vs ChessBase hearing a “meh” affair

[Rebel]

All people are doing it backwards, I can guarantee you that Fat Fritz 2's sales increased after all this by people buying it just to know what all the fuzz was about.

And perhaps this was the plan from the beginning, all publicity is good publicity, chessbase's people could be master geniuses, and they even put the catchy name on the horse, specially to be exposed to people that didn't even know chessbase existed, but now they'll check others of their products.

Might have increased some sales in the beginning, but I think you underestimate the damage. First you don't know how many people have asked for a refund, secondly, in case of a new release people will hesitate to buy and start asking questions first.

[AndrewGrant]

All people are doing it backwards, I can guarantee you that Fat Fritz 2's sales increased after all this by people buying it just to know what all the fuzz was about.

And perhaps this was the plan from the beginning, all publicity is good publicity, chessbase's people could be master geniuses, and they even put the catchy name on the horse, specially to be exposed to people that didn't even know chessbase existed, but now they'll check others of their products.

Might have increased some sales in the beginning, but I think you underestimate the damage. First you don't know how many people have asked for a refund, secondly, in case of a new release people will hesitate to buy and start asking questions first.

All publicity is good publicity is not a truism. Take a person that knows nothing about it. Then tell them about Fat Fritz 2, and how its just Stockfish. Then ask them if they would pay for something they could get for free, and have it be better, and without stepping on anyone. Pretty sure the answer there is clear.

If Chessbase people were even remotely competent, they would not have gotten themselves into this mess. You can _maybe_ not blame them for Houdini if they never had access to the code -- Houdart conned people for years and years with his trash. But Fat Fritz 2 was as clear as day. Just as Fat Fritz 1 was, and just as DeusX was.

[AdminX]

All people are doing it backwards, I can guarantee you that Fat Fritz 2's sales increased after all this by people buying it just to know what all the fuzz was about.

And perhaps this was the plan from the beginning, all publicity is good publicity, chessbase's people could be master geniuses, and they even put the catchy name on the horse, specially to be exposed to people that didn't even know chessbase existed, but now they'll check others of their products.

Might have increased some sales in the beginning, but I think you underestimate the damage. First you don't know how many people have asked for a refund, secondly, in case of a new release people will hesitate to buy and start asking questions first.

All publicity is good publicity is not a truism. Take a person that knows nothing about it. Then tell them about Fat Fritz 2, and how its just Stockfish. Then ask them if they would pay for something they could get for free, and have it be better, and without stepping on anyone. Pretty sure the answer there is clear.

If Chessbase people were even remotely competent, they would not have gotten themselves into this mess. You can _maybe_ not blame them for Houdini if they never had access to the code -- Houdart conned people for years and years with his trash. But Fat Fritz 2 was as clear as day. Just as Fat Fritz 1 was, and just as DeusX was.

They should have treated it like they did crafty from years ago and just shipped it with their products, I don't know why they did not. There was no need for smoke and mirrors.

[noobpwnftw]

Better get a photographer to work on your engine Andy, might do wonders.

[AndrewGrant]

Better get a photographer to work on your engine Andy, might do wonders.

Well there is at least one rating list that would rate, test, and list "Ethereal", even if I sent them a direct link to Stockfish. So I could just go that route. Maybe not even comply with the GPLv3? I'm a nobody so big bad Stockfish team won't come after me, and therefore I can just toss morals out the window.

But a photohgrapher won't help. Buying a few 3080s, and growing up and writing some CUDA would.

[dkappe]

Main takeaways:

1. Another hearing in a year.
2. Withdrawal of license (if valid) would be restricted to SF13.
3. Some scheme proposed to have CB ask SF for permission to publish new engines based on SF. (Noob proposing to act in bad faith by always refusing permission. Someone stuff a sock in that guy’s mouth.)

Overall, this won’t be a good GPL precedent as the court didn’t really understand the concept of continuous development.

Stay tuned for round 2 in 2023.

A minor correction: the next hearing is in March of 2023, so 8 months.

[CornfedForever]

Overall, this won’t be a good GPL precedent as the court didn’t really understand the concept of continuous development.

This latter part is...your opinion, of course (?)

[AndrewGrant]

Overall, this won’t be a good GPL precedent as the court didn’t really understand the concept of continuous development.

This latter part is...your opinion, of course (?)

Looks like it. And its one that I agree with. Common ground so rare.

[Ovyron]

Take a person that knows nothing about it. Then tell them about Fat Fritz 2, and how its just Stockfish. Then ask them if they would pay for something they could get for free, and have it be better, and without stepping on anyone. Pretty sure the answer there is clear.

No, the answer isn't clear at all. Stockfish has been much better than anything chessbase sells for a long, long while, since the times Stockfish passed Rybka 4. And people still buy chessbase products.

Did you get that part? These are people that are choosing a much inferior product and paying for it when the superior product is free. And you expect them to choose the free product when it's the same product?

You and Ed may be used to talking to smart, reasonable people, but chessbase's customers were buying "the computer chess champions" for years even if those championships are irrelevant, and the time the best thing people can get has been free and open source has not mattered, they don't even know what GUI stands for, they download stockfish and run it and see a black box flash on the screen and don't get it and scratch their heads and buy whatever chessbase is selling.

I'll give you a hint: the name "Fat Fritz" was invented to appeal to those people!

If you went and made a deal with chessbase to sell Ethereal V11.00 (some old engine that isn't even the best free one) with some catchy engine rename I guarantee it'd sell more than your NNUE, because those guys would publicize it and make people know about it, and convince them to buy it. They know what they're doing and that's why the Stockfish team are going to spend years fighting a lost cause.

[syzygy]

Main takeaways:

1. Another hearing in a year.
2. Withdrawal of license (if valid) would be restricted to SF13.
3. Some scheme proposed to have CB ask SF for permission to publish new engines based on SF. (Noob proposing to act in bad faith by always refusing permission. Someone stuff a sock in that guy’s mouth.)

2. and 3. seem to contradict.
If the GPL granted to CB is only withdrawn for SF13, then it is not withdrawn for other versions and there is no need to ask for permission.