Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

[reflectionofpower]

"I watched the Nakamura YouTube video and found it to be ridiculous, but also void of an actual accusation of cheating. When Nakamura is saying that no 2700 calculates this poorly, he is flat out wrong. I can also show positional mistakes from Nakamura that undermines the credibility of the playing strength of the former no. 2. Mistakes that Hans would simply not believe a GM had made. Because they are his strengths and Nakamura’s weaknesses."

I agree. Naka drew a lot of conjectures from people's responses, and he would blatantly accuse Hans of cheating or some suspicious way. It did NOT help that he has been caught before, but this was an OTB tourney. Some points that Naka made sounded valid, but there is more evidence that is needed before you rake a guy over the coals and destroy his reputation in the chess world. I also went over this game with engine assist, and I did not see flawless play from Hans. That's just my 2¢ worth.

[towforce]

Very quickly, another way to look at this: it seems to me that you could take any player in the tournament, look at some games they have won, look through the history of everything they've ever said, perhaps trick them into saying something that, quoted out of context, sounds dark or dishonest - things like this - and make a case that "some" of their moves in a winning game were assisted.

Again, I cannot say for sure that Niemann's game against Carlsen was honest, but the evidence I have seen is not strong enough for GMs and officials to to be making accusations or even implications IMO.

[reflectionofpower]

Boo hoo. I lost. He must have cheated.

Yeah, this is what it sounds like. I agree. Just be a man and say I got beat that day and move on. Withdrawing even makes you look worse, but since he is the strongest player in the world people take his side, but they forget he is a human being with imperfections. He did not defend his WC title. He has even said on video. "I have not been motivated for a long time." Not being motivated, which shows in his actions lately, and then he gets beat by a player almost 200 ELO pts. below him must have really made him feel bad, so then he comes out with, "I don't want to say what I really want to say" because he is further demoralized.

[CornfedForever]

Anyone who lies once is not believed, even if he speaks the truth. Or once you lie nobody will ever believe you again except Trump followers
But we should believe him since he has never cheated over the Board before.

Well, that's the crux of the whole thing, isn't it? I mean, if he believes Hans cheated at THIS tournament and quit as a result, Magnus kind of owes it to the other players, organizers and Hans himself to offer some evidence. None of the other players are protesting or leaving. A 'bruised ego' won't do.

After his loss at the Miami tourney, Magnus DID agree to play in this tourney knowing Hans was invited as well... and DID play Hans; so it has to be 'something' that he 'believes' happened at THIS tournament - not when Hans was 12 or even 16 and online. If the St. Louis organizer had any reason to believe Magnus, they would/should kick Hans out. Instead, they tried to keep Magnus there with increased security checks and now everyone who plays Hans at the tourney is forced to play with those suspicions. Heck, maybe that's why Dominguez (incorrectly and shockingly to the commentators) simplified with a knight exchange instead of playing the logical Ne6 in his game with Hans?

At this point, this is ALL on Magnus. If he never says another word about it, the damage is done. If he does say something...it needs to be with evidence or an apology. Kings are loathe to make apologies. I think we are likely, near term (maybe there will be an autobiography at some point) to only hear, 'I had my reasons' or some-such.

[Fulvio]

Well, that's the crux of the whole thing, isn't it?

Svidler, in yesterday live coverage, hinted that it's not only about Niemann.
Apparently the topic of chess cheating is super hot behind the scenes.
The list is long, but this is exemplary, disqualified without any proof of actual cheating:
https://chess24.com/en/read/news/cheati ... mpionships

So the crux can be summarized with: Lance Armstrong.
A strong player can became the best with a little illict help and, even if many people have suspicitions, it is not easy to have irrefutable proof.

[towforce]

Well, that's the crux of the whole thing, isn't it?

Svidler, in yesterday live coverage, hinted that it's not only about Niemann.
Apparently the topic of chess cheating is super hot behind the scenes.
The list is long, but this is exemplary, disqualified without any proof of actual cheating:
https://chess24.com/en/read/news/cheati ... mpionships

So the crux can be summarized with: Lance Armstrong.
A strong player can became the best with a little illict help and, even if many people have suspicitions, it is not easy to have irrefutable proof.

Very good post - but I took something slightly different from it: there's a lot of nonsense coming in from the outside world, so pay less attention to the outside world, and more attention to driving my own improvement.

[CornfedForever]

Well, that's the crux of the whole thing, isn't it?

Svidler, in yesterday live coverage, hinted that it's not only about Niemann.
Apparently the topic of chess cheating is super hot behind the scenes.
The list is long, but this is exemplary, disqualified without any proof of actual cheating:
https://chess24.com/en/read/news/cheati ... mpionships

So the crux can be summarized with: Lance Armstrong.
A strong player can became the best with a little illict help and, even if many people have suspicitions, it is not easy to have irrefutable proof.

Those are 'online tournaments' where it is clearly easier to cheat and always has been....and likely easier to get falsely accused (?).

The issue here is simply: Did Hans cheat in this tournament and that drive Magnus to quit? And if so, Magnus needs to offer some sort of proof or get down on his knees and beg forgiveness for jumping to conclusions. He's had a bad run of late...personal (financial) and professional so fans might forgive him.

[dkappe]

Having top GM’s play naked in a galvanic cage (to combine two suggestions) seems like it might attract a new audience. One might even give the cage a special shape. I’d suggest a 17-gon, with a nod to Carl Friedrich Gauss.

[CornfedForever]

Having top GM’s play naked in a galvanic cage (to combine two suggestions) seems like it might attract a new audience. One might even give the cage a special shape. I’d suggest a 17-gon, with a nod to Carl Friedrich Gauss.

Might help to the get more....'eyes' from your average chess player on the tournaments of the fairer sex.

And let me just go on record as saying I am glad Ben Feingold has retired from competition....

[Chessqueen]

As many of you may have heard, Magnus Carlsen withdrew from the St. Louis Sinquefield Cup tournament today after losing to GM Hans Niemann yesterday. Although he didn't state a reason for withdrawal, he said it was not health-related and expressed a desire to play in future events at the St. Louis chess club, so it is pretty obvious that his reason was suspicion that his opponent had received computer help during the game. Hikaru Nakamura explicitly confirmed that he believed that this was Carlsen's reason for withdrawal, and also said that Niemann's post-game commentary of his game today did not sound like 2700 level commentary. I am not expressing an opinion on the issue or even asking for opinions here; I am posting here to ask those who are technologically knowledgeable how they would go about getting computer help in an event where the players are "wanded" for electronic devices, where spectators are barred (for Covid reasons), and where everyone is on camera during the games. It should be noted that today they implemented a 15 minute delay in coverage to make any cheating harder, but that was not in effect during the Carlsen vs Niemann game. Niemann supposedly had a 93% match with SF (first 3 moves I believe) vs 83% for Carlsen, which is of course just circumstantial evidence, he could just have been playing much better that day.

Hans tells his story ==> https://chessbase.in/news/Sinquefield-C ... d-5-report