[pgn]
[Event "Julius Baer Generation Cup"]
[Site "chess24.com INT"]
[Date "2022.09.25"]
[EventDate "2022.09.22"]
[Round "3.21"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Arjun Erigaisi"]
[Black "Magnus Carlsen"]
[ECO "B07"]
[WhiteElo "2725"]
[BlackElo "2861"]
[PlyCount "96"]
1. d4 d6 2. e4 Nf6 3. Nc3 g6 4. Be3 c6 5. Qd2 Nbd7 6. O-O-O b5 7. f3 Nb6 8. h4
b4 9. Nb1 a5 10. Nh3 d5 11. e5 Nh5 12. Qe1 Bxh3 13. Rxh3 Ng7 14. Bh6 Ne6 15.
Bxf8 Rxf8 16. Rh2 Qc7 17. h5 c5 18. dxc5 Qxc5 19. hxg6 hxg6 20. g3 Rc8 21. f4
Nd4 22. Qf2 b3 23. a4 Qxc2+ 24. Qxc2 Nxc2 25. Bb5+ Kd8 26. Nc3 e6 27. Kb1 Ke7
28. Ne2 Rh8 29. Rxh8 Rxh8 30. Nc1 Ne3 31. Re1 Nec4 32. Nxb3 Rh2 33. Kc1 Kf8 34.
Rf1 Nxb2 35. Nxa5 N2xa4 36. Rf3 Nc5 37. Rc3 Ra2 38. Nc6 Ne4 39. Rb3 Rg2 40. Ba6
Na4 41. Rb8+ Kg7 42. Ne7 Nac5 43. Rg8+ Kh7 44. Rf8 Nxa6 45. Rxf7+ Kh8 46. Nxg6+
Kg8 47. Ra7 Nac5 48. f5 Nd3+ 0-1
[/pgn]
For your consideration: a recent game by a young-ish Norwegian GM. Did he cheat or not? Using depth 20 multipv with a recent Stockfish Dev, we look a little deeper.
Some definitions:
Good Move = a move within 100 centipawns of the best move
Match = a move was selected whose score was as good as the best move
Note: we skip over the first 8 opening moves
Our summary stats:
40 total positions, 27 (67.50%) total matches
one good move: 15 (37.50%), matched 12 (80.00%)
2-3 good moves: 12 (30.00%), matched 7 (58.33%)
4+ good moves: 13 (32.50%), matched 8 (61.54%)
Our Norwegian GM seems to do better where there is only one good move. So, cheat or no cheat?
Cheat or no cheat?
Moderator: Ras
-
- Posts: 1632
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:52 pm
- Full name: Dietrich Kappe
Cheat or no cheat?
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
-
- Posts: 1632
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:52 pm
- Full name: Dietrich Kappe
Re: Cheat or no cheat?
[pgn] [Event "Julius Baer Generation Cup"]
[Site "chess24.com INT"]
[Date "2022.09.22"]
[EventDate "2022.09.22"]
[Round "1.12"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Quang Liem Le"]
[Black "Hans Moke Niemann"]
[ECO "E15"]
[WhiteElo "2728"]
[BlackElo "2688"]
[PlyCount "106"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 b6 4. g3 Ba6 5. b3 Be7 6. Bg2 d5 7. cxd5 exd5 8. O-O
O-O 9. Nc3 Bb7 10. Bb2 Nbd7 11. Ne5 Re8 12. Rc1 a6 13. e3 Bd6 14. f4 Ne4 15.
Nxe4 dxe4 16. Qh5 g6 17. Qh3 Nf6 18. g4 Bd5 19. f5 Nd7 20. Nxd7 Qxd7 21. g5 Qe7
22. Qg4 a5 23. Rc2 a4 24. Rcf2 axb3 25. axb3 Ra5 26. Qh4 Rb5 27. b4 Bxb4 28. Bh3
Bd6 29. f6 Qd8 30. Ra1 Rb3 31. Bc1 Bf8 32. Rc2 c5 33. Ra7 cxd4 34. Rd7 Qa8 35.
Rcc7 Rc3 36. Rxc3 dxc3 37. Qe1 Qc6 38. Ra7 Be6 39. Bxe6 Qxe6 40. Qxc3 Qg4+ 41.
Kf2 Qxg5 42. Bb2 Qf5+ 43. Ke1 Qe6 44. Ba3 Rc8 45. Qd4 Qg4 46. Qd5 Bb4+ 47. Kf1
Qf3+ 48. Kg1 Qxe3+ 49. Kf1 Qf3+ 50. Kg1 Qxf6 51. Bb2 Qf4 52. Ra8 Bc5+ 53. Qxc5
Qg4+ 0-1[/pgn]
Another recent game, this time by a young American GM.
Note: we also skip positions where there is only one move.
Stats:
45 total positions, 28 (62.22%) total matches
one good move: 13 (28.89%), matched 12 (92.31%)
2-3 good moves: 13 (28.89%), matched 7 (53.85%)
4+ good moves: 19 (42.22%), matched 9 (47.37%)
So, did the American cheat?
[Site "chess24.com INT"]
[Date "2022.09.22"]
[EventDate "2022.09.22"]
[Round "1.12"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Quang Liem Le"]
[Black "Hans Moke Niemann"]
[ECO "E15"]
[WhiteElo "2728"]
[BlackElo "2688"]
[PlyCount "106"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. Nf3 e6 3. c4 b6 4. g3 Ba6 5. b3 Be7 6. Bg2 d5 7. cxd5 exd5 8. O-O
O-O 9. Nc3 Bb7 10. Bb2 Nbd7 11. Ne5 Re8 12. Rc1 a6 13. e3 Bd6 14. f4 Ne4 15.
Nxe4 dxe4 16. Qh5 g6 17. Qh3 Nf6 18. g4 Bd5 19. f5 Nd7 20. Nxd7 Qxd7 21. g5 Qe7
22. Qg4 a5 23. Rc2 a4 24. Rcf2 axb3 25. axb3 Ra5 26. Qh4 Rb5 27. b4 Bxb4 28. Bh3
Bd6 29. f6 Qd8 30. Ra1 Rb3 31. Bc1 Bf8 32. Rc2 c5 33. Ra7 cxd4 34. Rd7 Qa8 35.
Rcc7 Rc3 36. Rxc3 dxc3 37. Qe1 Qc6 38. Ra7 Be6 39. Bxe6 Qxe6 40. Qxc3 Qg4+ 41.
Kf2 Qxg5 42. Bb2 Qf5+ 43. Ke1 Qe6 44. Ba3 Rc8 45. Qd4 Qg4 46. Qd5 Bb4+ 47. Kf1
Qf3+ 48. Kg1 Qxe3+ 49. Kf1 Qf3+ 50. Kg1 Qxf6 51. Bb2 Qf4 52. Ra8 Bc5+ 53. Qxc5
Qg4+ 0-1[/pgn]
Another recent game, this time by a young American GM.
Note: we also skip positions where there is only one move.
Stats:
45 total positions, 28 (62.22%) total matches
one good move: 13 (28.89%), matched 12 (92.31%)
2-3 good moves: 13 (28.89%), matched 7 (53.85%)
4+ good moves: 19 (42.22%), matched 9 (47.37%)
So, did the American cheat?
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
-
- Posts: 1632
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:52 pm
- Full name: Dietrich Kappe
Re: Cheat or no cheat?
[pgn][Event "Sunway Sitges"]
[Site "Sitges ESP"]
[Date "2020.12.19"]
[Round "6.5"]
[White "Hans Moke Niemann"]
[Black "Matthieu Cornette"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2478"]
[BlackElo "2558"]
[EventDate "2020.12.13"]
[ECO "D31"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 h6
{I was ready to go into the Nimzo-Indian but Cornette deviated. While I was somewhat familiar with these structures, I didn't remember anything concrete so I decided to go for a simple setup.}
4. Nf3 Nf6 5. e3
{I expected ... a7-a6 here, forcing me to release the tension with c4xd5. Why? I don't want to play a move like Bf1-e2, allowing ... d5xc4 and ... b7-b5 .}
5... Nbd7 (5... a6 6. Be2 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 ) 6. Bd3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 a6 8. a4 c5 9.
O-O
{This position is a transposition to a Queen's Gambit Accepted, but the knight is on d7 instead of c6 and Black has wasted a tempo with ... h7-h6. I felt that this position down one tempo and with an inferior knight placement would provide me an advantage.}
Qc7
{Another key waste of tempo. My opponent underestimated my potential initiative.}
(9... cxd4 10. exd4 Nb6 11. Bb3 Nbd5
{Black would like to setup a blockade on the d5 square, followed by .. . Bf8-e7 and castles. But he has squandered too many tempi, and White can punish the king in the center.}
12. a5 (12. Re1 Be7
{The computer suggests ignoring the a4-a5 idea completely and normally developing pieces, preparing for a possible kingside attack.}
13. Ne5 O-O 14. Qd3 ) Be7 13. Ba4+ Bd7 14. Ne5 Bxa4 15. Qxa4+ Kf8 16. Qb3 Rb8
{Although this isn't the computer's top choice, my calculation ended here and I concluded that I had an advantage due to the king on f8 and lead in development}
) 10. Qe2 Bd6
{My opponent has wasted one tempo with ... h7-h6, a second with ... Bd6, and a third with ... Qc7. My next moves are very strong.}
11. dxc5 Bxc5 12. e4 Ng4 13. h3 Nde5 ({The move} 13... h5
{initially scared me but after} 14. Ba2
{Black's position may look imposing but in reality there is nothing to fear.} )
14. hxg4 Nxc4 15. e5
{I believe the position is practically lost at this point. If Black castles, I'll have moves like g4-g5 or Nc3-e4-f6 to breakthrough. Additionally, the c4-knight is extremely loose and my opponent is begging me to put a rook on c1.}
Bd7 16. Bf4 Na5 17. Ne4 Be7 18. Rfc1 Qb6 19. Be3 Qb4 20. Bd2 Qb6 21. Be3
{I decided to repeat because I was down to about 25 minutes.} 21... Qb4
{There are many options here but I decided to play the simplest one, as Black's position falls apart without the dark-squared bishop.}
22. Nd6+ Bxd6 23. exd6 Qxg4 24. Rc7
{The pawn on g4 is irrelevant. Black's pieces are dominated and castling is basically impossible without also giving up a significant amount of material.}
24... Nc6 25. Rc1 Ne5 ({The final mistake which seals the game.} 25... e5
{would have been a better try, but the position is still extremely desperate.} )
26. Bb6 Nxf3+ 27. Qxf3 Qxf3 28. gxf3
{Compare the rooks on c7 and c1 to the rooks on a8 and h8 - it tells you everything you need to know about the position.}
Rb8 29. Ba7 Rd8 30. Rxb7 O-O 31. b3
{Consolidating the position and preparing to bring the second rook to the seventh file.}
31... e5 32. Bb6 Rb8 33. Rcc7 {The d-pawn is unstoppable.} 33... Be6 34. d7 Ra8
35. Bc5 Rfb8 36. Be7
{The final dagger, preventing all counterplay. I was especially pleased by this game because I didn't take unnecessary risks in the opening and played logical moves. I also managed my time well and played precisely at all of the critical moments without faltering.}
1-0[/pgn]
Here the game of Niemann that gets the mysterious “100%” from the ChessBase nonsense detector. Let’s put it through our own “nonsense detector.”
Stats:
28 total positions, 21 (75.00%) total matches
one good move: 9 (32.14%), matched 8 (88.89%)
2-3 good moves: 10 (35.71%), matched 7 (70.00%)
4+ good moves: 9 (32.14%), matched 6 (66.67%)
Hmmm, I can’t get a 100% match to save my life.
[Site "Sitges ESP"]
[Date "2020.12.19"]
[Round "6.5"]
[White "Hans Moke Niemann"]
[Black "Matthieu Cornette"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "2478"]
[BlackElo "2558"]
[EventDate "2020.12.13"]
[ECO "D31"]
1. d4 d5 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 h6
{I was ready to go into the Nimzo-Indian but Cornette deviated. While I was somewhat familiar with these structures, I didn't remember anything concrete so I decided to go for a simple setup.}
4. Nf3 Nf6 5. e3
{I expected ... a7-a6 here, forcing me to release the tension with c4xd5. Why? I don't want to play a move like Bf1-e2, allowing ... d5xc4 and ... b7-b5 .}
5... Nbd7 (5... a6 6. Be2 dxc4 7. Bxc4 b5 ) 6. Bd3 dxc4 7. Bxc4 a6 8. a4 c5 9.
O-O
{This position is a transposition to a Queen's Gambit Accepted, but the knight is on d7 instead of c6 and Black has wasted a tempo with ... h7-h6. I felt that this position down one tempo and with an inferior knight placement would provide me an advantage.}
Qc7
{Another key waste of tempo. My opponent underestimated my potential initiative.}
(9... cxd4 10. exd4 Nb6 11. Bb3 Nbd5
{Black would like to setup a blockade on the d5 square, followed by .. . Bf8-e7 and castles. But he has squandered too many tempi, and White can punish the king in the center.}
12. a5 (12. Re1 Be7
{The computer suggests ignoring the a4-a5 idea completely and normally developing pieces, preparing for a possible kingside attack.}
13. Ne5 O-O 14. Qd3 ) Be7 13. Ba4+ Bd7 14. Ne5 Bxa4 15. Qxa4+ Kf8 16. Qb3 Rb8
{Although this isn't the computer's top choice, my calculation ended here and I concluded that I had an advantage due to the king on f8 and lead in development}
) 10. Qe2 Bd6
{My opponent has wasted one tempo with ... h7-h6, a second with ... Bd6, and a third with ... Qc7. My next moves are very strong.}
11. dxc5 Bxc5 12. e4 Ng4 13. h3 Nde5 ({The move} 13... h5
{initially scared me but after} 14. Ba2
{Black's position may look imposing but in reality there is nothing to fear.} )
14. hxg4 Nxc4 15. e5
{I believe the position is practically lost at this point. If Black castles, I'll have moves like g4-g5 or Nc3-e4-f6 to breakthrough. Additionally, the c4-knight is extremely loose and my opponent is begging me to put a rook on c1.}
Bd7 16. Bf4 Na5 17. Ne4 Be7 18. Rfc1 Qb6 19. Be3 Qb4 20. Bd2 Qb6 21. Be3
{I decided to repeat because I was down to about 25 minutes.} 21... Qb4
{There are many options here but I decided to play the simplest one, as Black's position falls apart without the dark-squared bishop.}
22. Nd6+ Bxd6 23. exd6 Qxg4 24. Rc7
{The pawn on g4 is irrelevant. Black's pieces are dominated and castling is basically impossible without also giving up a significant amount of material.}
24... Nc6 25. Rc1 Ne5 ({The final mistake which seals the game.} 25... e5
{would have been a better try, but the position is still extremely desperate.} )
26. Bb6 Nxf3+ 27. Qxf3 Qxf3 28. gxf3
{Compare the rooks on c7 and c1 to the rooks on a8 and h8 - it tells you everything you need to know about the position.}
Rb8 29. Ba7 Rd8 30. Rxb7 O-O 31. b3
{Consolidating the position and preparing to bring the second rook to the seventh file.}
31... e5 32. Bb6 Rb8 33. Rcc7 {The d-pawn is unstoppable.} 33... Be6 34. d7 Ra8
35. Bc5 Rfb8 36. Be7
{The final dagger, preventing all counterplay. I was especially pleased by this game because I didn't take unnecessary risks in the opening and played logical moves. I also managed my time well and played precisely at all of the critical moments without faltering.}
1-0[/pgn]
Here the game of Niemann that gets the mysterious “100%” from the ChessBase nonsense detector. Let’s put it through our own “nonsense detector.”
Stats:
28 total positions, 21 (75.00%) total matches
one good move: 9 (32.14%), matched 8 (88.89%)
2-3 good moves: 10 (35.71%), matched 7 (70.00%)
4+ good moves: 9 (32.14%), matched 6 (66.67%)
Hmmm, I can’t get a 100% match to save my life.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
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- Posts: 3726
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:10 pm
Re: Cheat or no cheat?
I see you joined in 2018 ... so for you this must be a new subject. For me it is a lot of Deja Vu ... I quickly went back on the forums as I remember a heated similar discussion a while back. You remind me a lot of a poster called Lyudmil Tsvetkov. This guy would fight tooth and nail and show zillions of reasons why Ivanov was innocent. He used to post games where he would beat computer engines and I think even wrote a book about it. Check out this thread from 2013
forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50622&hilit=Ivanov+cheating
forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50622&hilit=Ivanov+cheating
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- Posts: 1632
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:52 pm
- Full name: Dietrich Kappe
Re: Cheat or no cheat?
Thanks for this. It goes to show there is nothing new under the sun. I left rec.games.chess.computer when it got a little too angry, but came back to talkchess when leela spun up.M ANSARI wrote: ↑Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:18 pm I see you joined in 2018 ... so for you this must be a new subject. For me it is a lot of Deja Vu ... I quickly went back on the forums as I remember a heated similar discussion a while back. You remind me a lot of a poster called Lyudmil Tsvetkov. This guy would fight tooth and nail and show zillions of reasons why Ivanov was innocent. He used to post games where he would beat computer engines and I think even wrote a book about it. Check out this thread from 2013
forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=50622&hilit=Ivanov+cheating
I agree that this Lyudmil guy defended Ivanov tooth and nail, going so far as to argue he should not have been searched. His aim seemed to be to completely exonerate Ivanov, rather than ensure that the evidence or argument about his guilt wasn’t junk.
I haven’t gotten to the posts of folks corresponding to yourself yet. You know, those trumpeting junk evidence and arguments, like the goofy chessbase function that “proves” Niemann cheated. Again, I don’t know if he cheated OTB, but so far the cheerleading has been an embarrassment. There truly is nothing new under the sun.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
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- Posts: 1632
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:52 pm
- Full name: Dietrich Kappe
Re: Cheat or no cheat?
[pgn][Event "Sinquefield Cup"]
[Site "Saint Louis, MO USA"]
[Date "2022.09.04"]
[EventDate "2022.09.01"]
[Round "3"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Magnus Carlsen"]
[Black "Hans Moke Niemann"]
[ECO "E20"]
[WhiteElo "2861"]
[BlackElo "2688"]
[PlyCount "114"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. g3 O-O 5. Bg2 d5 6. a3 Bxc3+ 7. bxc3 dxc4
8. Nf3 c5 9. O-O cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qxc4 e5 12. Bg5 h6 13. Rfd1 Be6 14.
Rxd8 Bxc4 15. Rxa8 Rxa8 16. Bxf6 gxf6 17. Kf1 Rd8 18. Ke1 Na5 19. Rd1 Rc8
20. Nd2 Be6 21. c4 Bxc4 22. Nxc4 Rxc4 23. Rd8+ Kg7 24. Bd5 Rc7 25. Ra8 a6
26. Rb8 f5 27. Re8 e4 28. g4 Rc5 29. Ba2 Nc4 30. a4 Nd6 31. Re7 fxg4 32.
Rd7 e3 33. fxe3 Ne4 34. Kf1 Rc1+ 35. Kg2 Rc2 36. Bxf7 Rxe2+ 37. Kg1 Re1+
38. Kg2 Re2+ 39. Kg1 Kf6 40. Bd5 Rd2 41. Rf7+ Kg6 42. Rd7 Ng5 43. Bf7+ Kf5
44. Rxd2 Nf3+ 45. Kg2 Nxd2 46. a5 Ke5 47. Kg3 Nf1+ 48. Kf2 Nxh2 49. e4 Kxe4
50. Be6 Kf4 51. Bc8 Nf3 52. Bxb7 Ne5 53. Bxa6 Nc6 54. Bb7 Nxa5 55. Bd5 h5
56. Bf7 h4 57. Bd5 Ke5 0-1[/pgn]
The famed game that caused Carlsen to withdraw from the Sinquefield Cup. Let’s use the Chess Nose(tm) to take deeper look:
Note: a goof is a move 200 cp or more worse than the best move.
Note: a match is a move within 5 cp of the best move.
Carlsen:
48 total positions, 27 (56.25%) total matches, 3 goof(s)
one good move: 12 (25.00%), matched 9 (75.00%)
2-3 good moves: 11 (22.92%), matched 6 (54.55%)
4+ good moves: 25 (52.08%), matched 12 (48.00%)
Niemann:
49 total positions, 39 (79.59%) total matches, 3 goof(s)
one good move: 20 (40.82%), matched 16 (80.00%)
2-3 good moves: 13 (26.53%), matched 10 (76.92%)
4+ good moves: 16 (32.65%), matched 13 (81.25%)
It’s surprising Magnus picked this hill to die on, given his poor play.
[Site "Saint Louis, MO USA"]
[Date "2022.09.04"]
[EventDate "2022.09.01"]
[Round "3"]
[Result "0-1"]
[White "Magnus Carlsen"]
[Black "Hans Moke Niemann"]
[ECO "E20"]
[WhiteElo "2861"]
[BlackElo "2688"]
[PlyCount "114"]
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 e6 3. Nc3 Bb4 4. g3 O-O 5. Bg2 d5 6. a3 Bxc3+ 7. bxc3 dxc4
8. Nf3 c5 9. O-O cxd4 10. Qxd4 Nc6 11. Qxc4 e5 12. Bg5 h6 13. Rfd1 Be6 14.
Rxd8 Bxc4 15. Rxa8 Rxa8 16. Bxf6 gxf6 17. Kf1 Rd8 18. Ke1 Na5 19. Rd1 Rc8
20. Nd2 Be6 21. c4 Bxc4 22. Nxc4 Rxc4 23. Rd8+ Kg7 24. Bd5 Rc7 25. Ra8 a6
26. Rb8 f5 27. Re8 e4 28. g4 Rc5 29. Ba2 Nc4 30. a4 Nd6 31. Re7 fxg4 32.
Rd7 e3 33. fxe3 Ne4 34. Kf1 Rc1+ 35. Kg2 Rc2 36. Bxf7 Rxe2+ 37. Kg1 Re1+
38. Kg2 Re2+ 39. Kg1 Kf6 40. Bd5 Rd2 41. Rf7+ Kg6 42. Rd7 Ng5 43. Bf7+ Kf5
44. Rxd2 Nf3+ 45. Kg2 Nxd2 46. a5 Ke5 47. Kg3 Nf1+ 48. Kf2 Nxh2 49. e4 Kxe4
50. Be6 Kf4 51. Bc8 Nf3 52. Bxb7 Ne5 53. Bxa6 Nc6 54. Bb7 Nxa5 55. Bd5 h5
56. Bf7 h4 57. Bd5 Ke5 0-1[/pgn]
The famed game that caused Carlsen to withdraw from the Sinquefield Cup. Let’s use the Chess Nose(tm) to take deeper look:
Note: a goof is a move 200 cp or more worse than the best move.
Note: a match is a move within 5 cp of the best move.
Carlsen:
48 total positions, 27 (56.25%) total matches, 3 goof(s)
one good move: 12 (25.00%), matched 9 (75.00%)
2-3 good moves: 11 (22.92%), matched 6 (54.55%)
4+ good moves: 25 (52.08%), matched 12 (48.00%)
Niemann:
49 total positions, 39 (79.59%) total matches, 3 goof(s)
one good move: 20 (40.82%), matched 16 (80.00%)
2-3 good moves: 13 (26.53%), matched 10 (76.92%)
4+ good moves: 16 (32.65%), matched 13 (81.25%)
It’s surprising Magnus picked this hill to die on, given his poor play.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
-
- Posts: 3726
- Joined: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:10 pm
Re: Cheat or no cheat?
I don't think that MC played poorly. I have heard that a lot but what I see is a human getting outplayed by someone who is using an engine to navigate the game. MC has played a dubious line many times and does that often ... it takes the opponent out of preparation, and he can then outplay them. Note the Nieman said that he had "prepared" that line against MC. Which was absolutely total BS as MC had never played that line. He then comes up and says that he had prepared for the position that arises after a transposition of moves ... what a ridiculous thing to say ... I mean imagine if your preparation includes every transposition of every obscure line ... as Hans himself claimed it was a "miracle" that he happened to prepare for that particular position. IMHO Hans has had way too many "miracles"! MIracle in game preparation against MC and then miracle in games against Fiourzja and Mamydaryov where he happened to magically choose the moves he could not explain ... by the miracle of intuition! I have a big plot of land for sale on Mars that has proven reserves of diamonds and gold ... willing to sell it cheap. Any takers?
-
- Posts: 1632
- Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:52 pm
- Full name: Dietrich Kappe
Re: Cheat or no cheat?
[pgn] [Event "Julius Baer Generation Cup"]
[Site "chess24.com INT"]
[Date "2022.09.19"]
[EventDate "2022.09.18"]
[Round "7.6"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Magnus Carlsen"]
[Black "Levon Aronian"]
[ECO "E04"]
[WhiteElo "2861"]
[BlackElo "2759"]
[PlyCount "106"]
1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. d4 e6 5. O-O Nf6 6. c4 dxc4 7. Qa4 Bd7 8. Qxc4
b5 9. Qd3 c4 10. Qd1 Rc8 11. Bf4 h6 12. Nc3 b4 13. Nb5 Qa5 14. Nd6+ Bxd6 15.
Bxd6 Ne4 16. Bf4 c3 17. Qb1 f5 18. a3 O-O 19. axb4 Qb5 20. Re1 a5 21. bxa5 g5
22. bxc3 Qxb1 23. Rexb1 gxf4 24. Rb7 Be8 25. gxf4 Nxc3 26. e3 Nd5 27. a6 Rf7 28.
Ne5 Nxe5 29. Bxd5 exd5 30. fxe5 Ra8 31. Rxf7 Kxf7 32. a7 Bb5 33. Kg2 f4 34. exf4
Kg6 35. Kf3 Kf5 36. Rb1 Ba4 37. Rb7 Bd1+ 38. Ke3 Bc2 39. f3 Ke6 40. Kd2 Bf5 41.
Kc3 Bh3 42. Kb4 Kf5 43. Rf7+ Kg6 44. Rf6+ Kh5 45. Ra6 Bc8 46. Ra2 Kg6 47. Kc5
Kf5 48. Kb6 Kxf4 49. Rc2 Bf5 50. Rc6 Ke3 51. Kb7 Re8 52. a8=Q Rxa8 53. Kxa8 1-0[/pgn]
Our two potential cheaters are Carlsen and Aronian.
Carlsen:
45 total positions, 32 (71.11%) total matches, 1 goof(s), 0 blunder(s)
one good move: 14 (31.11%), matched 13 (92.86%)
2-3 good moves: 8 (17.78%), matched 7 (87.50%)
4+ good moves: 23 (51.11%), matched 12 (52.17%)
Aronian:
44 total positions, 30 (68.18%) total matches, 4 goof(s), 0 blunder(s)
one good move: 11 (25.00%), matched 11 (100.00%)
2-3 good moves: 16 (36.36%), matched 10 (62.50%)
4+ good moves: 17 (38.64%), matched 9 (52.94%)
Lots of goofs by Aronian and poor choices in the 2-3 good move zone. Carlsen was almost computer-like in that zone.
[Site "chess24.com INT"]
[Date "2022.09.19"]
[EventDate "2022.09.18"]
[Round "7.6"]
[Result "1-0"]
[White "Magnus Carlsen"]
[Black "Levon Aronian"]
[ECO "E04"]
[WhiteElo "2861"]
[BlackElo "2759"]
[PlyCount "106"]
1. Nf3 d5 2. g3 c5 3. Bg2 Nc6 4. d4 e6 5. O-O Nf6 6. c4 dxc4 7. Qa4 Bd7 8. Qxc4
b5 9. Qd3 c4 10. Qd1 Rc8 11. Bf4 h6 12. Nc3 b4 13. Nb5 Qa5 14. Nd6+ Bxd6 15.
Bxd6 Ne4 16. Bf4 c3 17. Qb1 f5 18. a3 O-O 19. axb4 Qb5 20. Re1 a5 21. bxa5 g5
22. bxc3 Qxb1 23. Rexb1 gxf4 24. Rb7 Be8 25. gxf4 Nxc3 26. e3 Nd5 27. a6 Rf7 28.
Ne5 Nxe5 29. Bxd5 exd5 30. fxe5 Ra8 31. Rxf7 Kxf7 32. a7 Bb5 33. Kg2 f4 34. exf4
Kg6 35. Kf3 Kf5 36. Rb1 Ba4 37. Rb7 Bd1+ 38. Ke3 Bc2 39. f3 Ke6 40. Kd2 Bf5 41.
Kc3 Bh3 42. Kb4 Kf5 43. Rf7+ Kg6 44. Rf6+ Kh5 45. Ra6 Bc8 46. Ra2 Kg6 47. Kc5
Kf5 48. Kb6 Kxf4 49. Rc2 Bf5 50. Rc6 Ke3 51. Kb7 Re8 52. a8=Q Rxa8 53. Kxa8 1-0[/pgn]
Our two potential cheaters are Carlsen and Aronian.
Carlsen:
45 total positions, 32 (71.11%) total matches, 1 goof(s), 0 blunder(s)
one good move: 14 (31.11%), matched 13 (92.86%)
2-3 good moves: 8 (17.78%), matched 7 (87.50%)
4+ good moves: 23 (51.11%), matched 12 (52.17%)
Aronian:
44 total positions, 30 (68.18%) total matches, 4 goof(s), 0 blunder(s)
one good move: 11 (25.00%), matched 11 (100.00%)
2-3 good moves: 16 (36.36%), matched 10 (62.50%)
4+ good moves: 17 (38.64%), matched 9 (52.94%)
Lots of goofs by Aronian and poor choices in the 2-3 good move zone. Carlsen was almost computer-like in that zone.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".