Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

[M ANSARI]

Teenage U.S. chess grandmaster Hans Niemann appeared to receive a more thorough security check than other players on his arrival at the U.S. Chess Championships in St. Louis this week.

A St. Louis Chess Club livestream showed Niemann, 19, being asked to turn around so the security wand could be waved over his buttocks as he entered the competition arena. But the two players before Niemann and the one after him were only scanned on their fronts.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chess-gr ... SSTAND0001

I saw the scans and definetly there was no ass checking! I think if cheating is involved it probably is a lot less sophisticated than most people are thinking of. I remember with Ivanon, he accepted to go through a CT scan to see if he had any embedded electronics inside his body. Of course all that did was that it made him look more innocent as nothing was found. You would think that someone that has no problem doing a CT scan would alos accept removing his shoes ... but apparently not! Somehow people think that if you go through an electronic scanner that means there are no electronics on you. Ivanov would always pass electronic screening and so people started thinking of many exotic ways he could be using a sophisticated devices. I think for sure that if there is enough prize money involved, someone will try to circumvent whatever cheating protocols are used. It is highly doubtful that a novice chess player can get away with it as he wouldn't be able to make sense of the moves he plays and a few key moves are not enough for him to play out the game. Most GM's however, have enough good technique where they can win a "won" game or at least can win when they have a huge advantage. If Hans Nieman is cheating, it is probably in a way that is much more simple than most are thinking about. If he is cheating, he certainly is not cheating in every game as some of his games are of very poor quality for his supposedly "best chess player in history of chess" standard.

[Chessqueen]

Teenage U.S. chess grandmaster Hans Niemann appeared to receive a more thorough security check than other players on his arrival at the U.S. Chess Championships in St. Louis this week.

A St. Louis Chess Club livestream showed Niemann, 19, being asked to turn around so the security wand could be waved over his buttocks as he entered the competition arena. But the two players before Niemann and the one after him were only scanned on their fronts.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chess-gr ... SSTAND0001

If Hans Nieman is cheating, it is probably in a way that is much more simple than most are thinking about. If he is cheating, he certainly is not cheating in every game as some of his games are of very poor quality for his supposedly "best chess player in history of chess" standard.

I would NOT say that some of his games are of very poor quality, but more of a 2500 rated player, you wish that you can play as good as his worse game. I would say that when he does NOT cheat at all, his games reflect the same errors that most 2400 thru 2500 players once in a while commit, but NOT as good or perfect as when he cheat or play his best games. I guarantee you that some other 2450 thru 2500 players can also beat Carlsen when they play their best games, and Carlsen play his worse game

[Graham Banks]

Teenage U.S. chess grandmaster Hans Niemann appeared to receive a more thorough security check than other players on his arrival at the U.S. Chess Championships in St. Louis this week.

A St. Louis Chess Club livestream showed Niemann, 19, being asked to turn around so the security wand could be waved over his buttocks as he entered the competition arena. But the two players before Niemann and the one after him were only scanned on their fronts.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chess-gr ... SSTAND0001

I saw the scans and definetly there was no ass checking! I think if cheating is involved it probably is a lot less sophisticated than most people are thinking of. I remember with Ivanon, he accepted to go through a CT scan to see if he had any embedded electronics inside his body. Of course all that did was that it made him look more innocent as nothing was found. You would think that someone that has no problem doing a CT scan would alos accept removing his shoes ... but apparently not! Somehow people think that if you go through an electronic scanner that means there are no electronics on you. Ivanov would always pass electronic screening and so people started thinking of many exotic ways he could be using a sophisticated devices. I think for sure that if there is enough prize money involved, someone will try to circumvent whatever cheating protocols are used. It is highly doubtful that a novice chess player can get away with it as he wouldn't be able to make sense of the moves he plays and a few key moves are not enough for him to play out the game. Most GM's however, have enough good technique where they can win a "won" game or at least can win when they have a huge advantage. If Hans Nieman is cheating, it is probably in a way that is much more simple than most are thinking about. If he is cheating, he certainly is not cheating in every game as some of his games are of very poor quality for his supposedly "best chess player in history of chess" standard.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... rrgVgfVb1b

[M ANSARI]

Teenage U.S. chess grandmaster Hans Niemann appeared to receive a more thorough security check than other players on his arrival at the U.S. Chess Championships in St. Louis this week.

A St. Louis Chess Club livestream showed Niemann, 19, being asked to turn around so the security wand could be waved over his buttocks as he entered the competition arena. But the two players before Niemann and the one after him were only scanned on their fronts.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chess-gr ... SSTAND0001

I saw the scans and definetly there was no ass checking! I think if cheating is involved it probably is a lot less sophisticated than most people are thinking of. I remember with Ivanon, he accepted to go through a CT scan to see if he had any embedded electronics inside his body. Of course all that did was that it made him look more innocent as nothing was found. You would think that someone that has no problem doing a CT scan would alos accept removing his shoes ... but apparently not! Somehow people think that if you go through an electronic scanner that means there are no electronics on you. Ivanov would always pass electronic screening and so people started thinking of many exotic ways he could be using a sophisticated devices. I think for sure that if there is enough prize money involved, someone will try to circumvent whatever cheating protocols are used. It is highly doubtful that a novice chess player can get away with it as he wouldn't be able to make sense of the moves he plays and a few key moves are not enough for him to play out the game. Most GM's however, have enough good technique where they can win a "won" game or at least can win when they have a huge advantage. If Hans Nieman is cheating, it is probably in a way that is much more simple than most are thinking about. If he is cheating, he certainly is not cheating in every game as some of his games are of very poor quality for his supposedly "best chess player in history of chess" standard.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... rrgVgfVb1b

Lol ... that was definetly not an ass check

[M ANSARI]

Teenage U.S. chess grandmaster Hans Niemann appeared to receive a more thorough security check than other players on his arrival at the U.S. Chess Championships in St. Louis this week.

A St. Louis Chess Club livestream showed Niemann, 19, being asked to turn around so the security wand could be waved over his buttocks as he entered the competition arena. But the two players before Niemann and the one after him were only scanned on their fronts.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chess-gr ... SSTAND0001

If Hans Nieman is cheating, it is probably in a way that is much more simple than most are thinking about. If he is cheating, he certainly is not cheating in every game as some of his games are of very poor quality for his supposedly "best chess player in history of chess" standard.

I would NOT say that some of his games are of very poor quality, but more of a 2500 rated player, you wish that you can play as good as his worse game. I would say that when he does NOT cheat at all, his games reflect the same errors that most 2400 thru 2500 players once in a while commit, but NOT as good or perfect as when he cheat or play his best games. I guarantee you that some other 2450 thru 2500 players can also beat Carlsen when they play their best games, and Carlsen play his worse game

Oh MC has lost quite a few games against lower rated players. I remember several of them and one where he lost to a player around 2400 ELO. But usually it is due to him blundering in one move something ... or sometimes he pushes too hard for a win and over reaches and ends up in a lost position. With his game against Nieman ... MC probably didn't mind going to a slightly worse endgame as he figured he would easily outplay Nieman. I don't think MC played poorly after the opening where he was worse after queen exchange ... just that Nieman played incredibly accurately. MC did have a point in the game where he could have gone into a drawn rook endgame a pawn down, but my guess is that he still figured he could outplay Hans and get more. Remember that MC has played Hans many times and so he has an idea of Hans strength ... just that Nieman played extremely accurately and totally outplayed MC in the dry endgame. If you go through the game it is easy to say that MC didn't play his best, but MC play was based on the assumption he was playing a human. I have serious doubts that Hans Nieman played that game without help ... and the game against Mamydyarov and the game against Firouzja. Doubt is not proof and I am not trying to say it is proof.

[Alexander Schmidt]

You think? Care to share any references?
I’m guessing you are not a statistician or data scientist.

Your guess is based on what? Statisticians or data scientists do not think? Do you have a reference for that?

It's a logical conclusion for me, feel free to disprove. Or just let it stand as an opinion, it's not really important for the topic.

[dkappe]

You think? Care to share any references?
I’m guessing you are not a statistician or data scientist.

Your guess is based on what? Statisticians or data scientists do not think? Do you have a reference for that?

It's a logical conclusion for me, feel free to disprove. Or just let it stand as an opinion, it's not really important for the topic.

If there is no strong correlation between rating and aCPL, the whole aCPL argument about cheating falls in the water. So, any references, or just your thinking?

[CornfedForever]

You think? Care to share any reference?
I’m guessing you are not a statistician or data scientist.

Your guess is based on what? Statisticians or data scientists do not think? Do you have a reference for that?

It's a logical conclusion for me, feel free to disprove. Or just let it stand as an opinion, it's not really important for the topic.

If there is no strong correlation between rating and aCPL, the whole aCPL argument about cheating falls in the water. So, any references, or just your thinking?

I had to beg off this thread for a couple of days because of the general distasteful tones and cheerleading...but saw this and wanted to mention that I watched Daniel Naroditsky's stream last night and he was very clear that he has changed his initial thoughts about Hans cheating OTB. He addressed all the 'data/stats' being thrown around out and the data may be fine, but....saw 'confirmation bias' written all over them.

With that said...back to my castle of quiet contemplation.

[Chessqueen]

You think? Care to share any reference?
I’m guessing you are not a statistician or data scientist.

Your guess is based on what? Statisticians or data scientists do not think? Do you have a reference for that?

It's a logical conclusion for me, feel free to disprove. Or just let it stand as an opinion, it's not really important for the topic.

If there is no strong correlation between rating and aCPL, the whole aCPL argument about cheating falls in the water. So, any references, or just your thinking?

I had to beg off this thread for a couple of days because of the general distasteful tones and cheerleading...but saw this and wanted to mention that I watched Daniel Naroditsky's stream last night and he was very clear that he has changed his initial thoughts about Hans cheating OTB. He addressed all the 'data/stats' being thrown around out and the data may be fine, but....saw 'confirmation bias' written all over them.

With that said...back to my castle of quiet contemplation.

GM Caruana trolled Hans by blitzing and waited to see if GM Hans played fast which will not give Niemann any time to cheat, but Niemann did this instead ==>

[Graham Banks]

Teenage U.S. chess grandmaster Hans Niemann appeared to receive a more thorough security check than other players on his arrival at the U.S. Chess Championships in St. Louis this week.

A St. Louis Chess Club livestream showed Niemann, 19, being asked to turn around so the security wand could be waved over his buttocks as he entered the competition arena. But the two players before Niemann and the one after him were only scanned on their fronts.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/chess-gr ... SSTAND0001

I saw the scans and definetly there was no ass checking! I think if cheating is involved it probably is a lot less sophisticated than most people are thinking of. I remember with Ivanon, he accepted to go through a CT scan to see if he had any embedded electronics inside his body. Of course all that did was that it made him look more innocent as nothing was found. You would think that someone that has no problem doing a CT scan would alos accept removing his shoes ... but apparently not! Somehow people think that if you go through an electronic scanner that means there are no electronics on you. Ivanov would always pass electronic screening and so people started thinking of many exotic ways he could be using a sophisticated devices. I think for sure that if there is enough prize money involved, someone will try to circumvent whatever cheating protocols are used. It is highly doubtful that a novice chess player can get away with it as he wouldn't be able to make sense of the moves he plays and a few key moves are not enough for him to play out the game. Most GM's however, have enough good technique where they can win a "won" game or at least can win when they have a huge advantage. If Hans Nieman is cheating, it is probably in a way that is much more simple than most are thinking about. If he is cheating, he certainly is not cheating in every game as some of his games are of very poor quality for his supposedly "best chess player in history of chess" standard.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... rrgVgfVb1b

Lol ... that was definetly not an ass check

Well what do you expect?

I don't think that anybody is going to be allowed to stick anything up there, and rightly so, unless other participants are searched in the same manner.