Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

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CornfedForever
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by CornfedForever »

dkappe wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:38 pm
dkappe wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:11 am
In one email, Dlugy says that in 2017, he was playing in a tournament on Chess.com in front of his students, and was crowdsourcing moves from them. (This is, itself, a violation of Chess.com's fair play rules.) "I am now positive, that one of the kids, was using an program on his cell while this was going on," Dlugy wrote. "As you can imagine, I liked many of his moves, though I had no idea that he was using assistance to generate them.” Dlugy admitted in a later email that it was not the only time he cheated.
From Vice. We don’t have the full text of the emails, just Vice’s paraphrasing.
Agadmator seems to be the only streamer/YouTuber who has kept a level head. He takes on the Maxim Dlugy statement, with emails. Vice doesn’t come off so well.

Thanks for this. It was good to hear the whole thing read out.

My suspicion that chess.com takes a 'rolling set of games' (20, 25, 100...whatever) looks to perhaps be borne out as Max included the correspondence/apology from Danny R who looked into the 2019 (?) 'cheating' and replied that his team was inadvertently taking the old data into account when they banned him then. In the end, perhaps a minor thing; but that in itself doesn't look good for chess.com.
dkappe
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by dkappe »

CornfedForever wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:47 pm
dkappe wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:55 pm
CornfedForever wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:50 pm
M ANSARI wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:35 am OK John Doe ... I mean John Smith ... I mean Brian Smith.
M - Is it...Mark Ansari? Mathew Ansari....Mary Ansari? :?
Don’t bother. Its confirmed, he’s a troll.
Dude...YOU are the one who started asking about names, saying I was hiding behind a user name...someone pointed out my name was there to be seen...then making fun of it. Yours...I just see M. I don't know what it stands for and asked.

Anyway, since you clearly can't converse as you continue to resort to 'BS' like this...just don't address me, okay (?) and I won't address you. This is...beyond ridiculous. Of course, half of what I see on this thread is. Too often things degenerate to some weird interpersonal squabble...well, anywhere on the internet really; so 'here' is no exception. Adieu.
Check who you are responding to. I’ve never said anything about user names or real names on this forum. Also, I was not calling you a troll.
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
CornfedForever
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by CornfedForever »

dkappe wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 4:20 pm
CornfedForever wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 3:47 pm
dkappe wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:55 pm
CornfedForever wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 2:50 pm
M ANSARI wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:35 am OK John Doe ... I mean John Smith ... I mean Brian Smith.
M - Is it...Mark Ansari? Mathew Ansari....Mary Ansari? :?
Don’t bother. Its confirmed, he’s a troll.
Dude...YOU are the one who started asking about names, saying I was hiding behind a user name...someone pointed out my name was there to be seen...then making fun of it. Yours...I just see M. I don't know what it stands for and asked.

Anyway, since you clearly can't converse as you continue to resort to 'BS' like this...just don't address me, okay (?) and I won't address you. This is...beyond ridiculous. Of course, half of what I see on this thread is. Too often things degenerate to some weird interpersonal squabble...well, anywhere on the internet really; so 'here' is no exception. Adieu.
Check who you are responding to. I’ve never said anything about user names or real names on this forum. Also, I was not calling you a troll.
Yes, so sorry...nasty nested quotes in the thread - I grabbed the quote at the wrong point. Of course... The comments were meant for M. ANSARI.
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by supersharp77 »

Breaking Chess News....Indian Player Details An Interesting Story of Modern Day Chess Cheating....

"I Caught A Chess Cheater"...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl5SXWG7avA
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AdminX
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by AdminX »

supersharp77 wrote: Tue Oct 11, 2022 9:11 pm Breaking Chess News....Indian Player Details An Interesting Story of Modern Day Chess Cheating....

"I Caught A Chess Cheater"...... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pl5SXWG7avA
His second video was good also, looking like things have not changed much from the 80's when I was active OTB. #FIDESUCKS
"Good decisions come from experience, and experience comes from bad decisions."
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Eduard
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by Eduard »

It seems that Niemann is not a good player. Comparing him to Bobby Fischer is a joke. He plays variants that might be good for blitz, but bad against any opponent at classic timecontrol. What he showed today is amateurish.
lkaufman
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by lkaufman »

Eduard wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 2:03 am It seems that Niemann is not a good player. Comparing him to Bobby Fischer is a joke. He plays variants that might be good for blitz, but bad against any opponent at classic timecontrol. What he showed today is amateurish.
I would not judge a grandmaster by his opening choices. By that criterion, Magnus Carlsen must be a real patzer, he plays all sorts of dubious (or outright bad) openings, even in classical games. Of course his motivation is to get people out of their prep. If you want to prove that Niemann is not a 2700 level player, you should do it by comparing the quality of his moves to other 2700 FIDE players after presumably leaving prep, maybe past move 15 would be a reasonable cutoff in the absence of other info, or just start when there are no other games in the databases. Some top players like to play "perfect" openings (Dominguez comes to mind), others just want to get out of theory early. For Niemann you could just consider classical games in events with really good cheat-detection, such as the current US Championship and rounds four thru nine in the St. Louis event where Carlsen forfeited to Niemann. See what "elo" is predicted by the error rate of his moves (past the cutoff point) in these games. I know the correlation between elo and error rate isn't that strong for individual games, but I think it's good enough if you have 20 games or so.
Komodo rules!
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by Eduard »

Niemann doesn't have it easy. Everywhere you click on the Internet (also on many German sites, not just chess), topic number 1 is Niemann.

And lurid get-ups like this:
https://chessarena.com/

Image

I'm disappointed in Niemann. He's always all or nothing, and he always thinks he's better than his opponent. There is no middle ground for him. That's why he rightly lost the last two games. He overestimates himself. I read that he is a good bullet player. Unfortunately, he also plays classic time controls in this style, and that's not wise. More respect for the quality of his opponents would be appropriate. He supposedly wants to be world champion, or at least a top 10 player (by his own admission). It won't work!
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by Chessqueen »

Eduard wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 7:06 am Niemann doesn't have it easy. Everywhere you click on the Internet (also on many German sites, not just chess), topic number 1 is Niemann.

And lurid get-ups like this:
https://chessarena.com/

Image

I'm disappointed in Niemann. He's always all or nothing, and he always thinks he's better than his opponent. There is no middle ground for him. That's why he rightly lost the last two games. He overestimates himself. I read that he is a good bullet player. Unfortunately, he also plays classic time controls in this style, and that's not wise. More respect for the quality of his opponents would be appropriate. He supposedly wants to be world champion, or at least a top 10 player (by his own admission). It won't work!
Why we do NOT question other players about cheating GM Robson played this game almost perfect according to engines :roll:
[Event "USA Championship 2022"]
[White "Niemann,Hans Moke"]
[Black "Robson,Ray"]
[Site "Saint Louis"]
[Round "6.4"]
[Annotator ""]
[Result "0-1"]
[Date "2022.10.11"]
[WhiteElo "2699"]
[BlackElo "2690"]
[PlyCount "70"]

1. d4 {[%emt 0:4:14]} Nf6 {[%emt 0:0:18]} 2. c4 {[%emt 0:1:21]} e6 {[%emt 0:0:17]} 3. Bf4 {[%emt 0:0:6]} d5 {[%emt 0:5:28]} 4. cxd5 {[%emt 0:0:13]} Nxd5 {[%emt 0:0:53]} 5. Bg3 {[%emt 0:0:8]} c5 {[%emt 0:1:57]} 6. e4 {[%emt 0:0:7] A50: Queen's Fianchetto Defence (1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 b6).} Nf6 {[%emt 0:2:1]} 7. Nd2 {[%emt 0:0:19]} Nc6 {[%emt 0:12:24][#]} (7... Qxd4 $0 $15 8. Ngf3 Qd8 )8. dxc5 $0 $146 {[%emt 0:0:9]The position is equal.} ({Predecessor:} 8. e5 Nd7 9. Ngf3 cxd4 10. Bc4 Be7 11. O-O O-O 12. Rc1 Nc5 13. a3 a5 14. Nb3 {1-0 (55) Carlsen,M (2847)-So,W (2772) chess24.com INT 2021} )Bxc5 {[%emt 0:1:4]} 9. e5 {[%emt 0:0:17]} Nd5 {[%emt 0:9:26]} 10. Ngf3 {[%emt 0:0:9]} O-O {[%emt 0:3:3]} 11. a3 {[%emt 0:0:43]} b6 {[%emt 0:5:54]} 12. Ne4 {[%emt 0:5:55]} a5 {[%emt 0:14:4]} 13. Rc1 {[%emt 0:13:28]} Nce7 {[%emt 0:3:9]} 14. Bd3 {[%emt 0:7:33]} Ba6 {[%emt 0:2:14]} 15. Bxa6 {[%emt 0:4:23]} Rxa6 {[%emt 0:0:7]} 16. O-O {[%emt 0:0:28]} Qa8 {[%emt 0:10:26]} 17. Re1 {[%emt 0:8:12] Prevents Ne3.} Nf5 {[%emt 0:2:3]} 18. Nh4 {[%emt 0:4:11]} Nxg3 {[%emt 0:9:23]} 19. hxg3 {[%emt 0:0:28]} Be7 {[%emt 0:1:19]} 20. Qh5 {[%emt 0:0:58]} b5 {[%emt 0:2:13]} 21. Nf3 {[%emt 0:11:19]} Rc6 {[%emt 0:0:18]} 22. Rcd1 {[%emt 0:2:13]} (22. Nd4 $0 $11 Rxc1 23. Rxc1 )Rc2 $0 $15 {[%emt 0:1:8]} 23. b3 {[%emt 0:2:44]} (23. Nfg5 h6 24. Nh3 Rxb2 $0 $17 )Ra2 {[%emt 0:1:1]} 24. Nd4 {[%emt 0:3:21]} (24. Nfg5 h6 25. Nf3 Rxa3 $0 $17 )Rxa3 {[%emt 0:0:24]} 25. f4 {[%emt 0:0:26]} (25. Qg4 $0 $15 Qc8 26. Nd6 Bxd6 27. exd6 )Ra2 {[%emt 0:2:14]} (25... Bb4 $0 $17 26. Re2 (26. Nxb5 $2 Rxb3 27. Re2 a4 $0 $19 )a4 )26. f5 {[%emt 0:0:57] This costs White the game.} ({ White should try} 26. Nxb5 $0 $15 Qa6 27. Nd4 )Nc3 $1 $19 {[%emt 0:5:21]} 27. f6 {[%emt 0:1:8]} (27. Qf3 { was necessary.} Nxd1 28. Rxd1 )Bxf6 $1 {[%emt 0:0:22] Chess con chili.} ({ Much less strong is} 27... Nxe4 28. fxe7 Re8 29. Qf3 $0 $18 )(27... Nxd1 { is a self mate.} 28. Qg5 (28. fxe7 Re8 $0 $16 )g6 29. Qh6 )28. Nxf6+ {[%emt 0:8:45]} (28. exf6 Nxe4 29. fxg7 )gxf6 {[%emt 0:0:1]Black is clearly winning.} 29. Nf3 {[%emt 0:0:10]} Nxd1 {[%emt 0:0:23]} 30. exf6 {[%emt 0:2:41][#] Intending Qg5+ and mate.} Kh8 $1 {[%emt 0:0:16] Threatens to win with ...Qa7+.} 31. Rxd1 {[%emt 0:0:18][#] Rd4 is the strong threat.} Rg8 $1 {[%emt 0:2:39]} 32. Kh2 {[%emt 0:0:47]} Qe4 {[%emt 0:0:46] ( -> ...Rxg2+!)} 33. Rd7 {[%emt 0:0:58]} Qe2 {[%emt 0:0:37]} 34. Qh3 {[%emt 0:0:29]} Qxf3 $1 {[%emt 0:0:8]} 35. Rxf7 {[%emt 0:0:2][#]} Rxg2+ $3 {[%emt 0:0:22]

Weighted Error Value: White=0.57/Black=0.05 (flawless) } 0-1
Alexander Schmidt
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Re: Carlsen withdrawal after loss to Niemann

Post by Alexander Schmidt »

Chessqueen wrote: Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:06 am Why we do NOT question other players about cheating GM Robson played this game almost perfect according to engines :roll:
A few reasons:

-Because it's one game. Nobody seriously accuses a player of cheating because of one game.
-Because Robson is not a known online cheater.
-Because Robson doesn't have outstanding jumps in his strength history.
-Because his mentor isn't a known cheater.
-Because he can explain his moves in the after game analysis.
-Because no one of the top GMs suspects him as far as we know.
-Because nobody collected data that are completely different to other players of his level.
-Because he is obviously focused in his games.

What you do is really silly. You don't accept accusations of Niemann as long as he is not caught red handed. And that's fine. But what you do is even worse, you accuse repeatedly other players without any reason.

And it seems that you don't even look at the points against Niemann. Because it is not about playing a perfect game, rather about his history, his behaviour and his sometimes outstanding moves, which a GM hardly finds, followed by positional blunders like 22. Rcd1in yesterdays game. Or can anyone explain this move? Why would anyone give away the c file for nothing?