Chess grandmaster Hans Niemann sues champion Magnus Carlsen, others for $100 million over cheating claim

[supersharp77]

Citizens...No End In Sight To The Hans Niemann vs Magnus Carlsen Situation....All HELL Is Breaking Loose! Chessbase Releases a Extended Update On Site And Now Enter The Legal Experts.."Super-Lawyers!"..(Court TV? You Bet!!)..

https://profiles.superlawyers.com/new-y ... 2e79f.html

TERRENCE A. OVED
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Terrence A. Oved, an attorney with Oved & Oved LLP in New York, New York, helps clients address Civil Litigation: Plaintiff situations. He also helps clients with Business / Corporate, Intellectual Property and Real Estate: Business concerns.

He received legal training from Yeshiva University Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law. He graduated from law school in 1991. Terrence Oved became licensed to practice law in 1991....

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https://youtu.be/M2-CcfC0y9M Hans Niemanns Lawyer

https://youtu.be/AAskc9OhgPU Legal Issues Discussed

https://youtu.be/svMvQJzDVX0 Law Discussion (Legal Standing)

https://youtu.be/iXk9PZhndCY Botez Sisters Just Find Out About Case & Weigh In!!

[dkappe]

I have not seen the full Nakamura streams…

Who has that much time? I’ve seen some of the highlights. There was a fair amount of behind the scenes gossiping, basically to make it seem as if Nakamura was in the know. But given the sheer amount of shit talking he did, who knows how he might have exposed himself? Law firms have people in the Philippines and India to help them go through large volumes of evidence. If there’s something there, they’ll find it.

The relevant quotes are in points 97 to 101 of Niemann's complaint (just looked it up).

Just the beginning of discovery.

[Alexander Schmidt]

Quite correct, you do not know why after losing one relatively poorly played OTB game to Hans - which broke a streak he was on - Magnus is scapegoating Hans for the sins of online cheaters the world over.

That's not what I said, I think I pointed out the difference between Niemann and others. I am sorry to repeat this, but you obviously did not understand it. Magnus and other top GMs got the impression Hans cheated also OTB. I know there is no proof for cheating, but there are statistics, that show, that Niemann plays "differently" to others, with a higher variety and less average quality of his moves. Together with the online history and sometimes wired analysis the suspicions are at least reasonable.

In any case, it was necessary to address the cheating problem and tighten the security measures at tournaments. Not only to prevent cheating, but also to prevent such discussions in the future. And after all this will help also Niemann, as long as he is able to play on a high level.

It is an important question which demands a reasonable answer - not from you of course. I am not sure Magnus has one though which would show him in a good light. Time (and lawsuits) will tell.

I think he has answered it sufficiently, even if some don't accept the reasons. He don't want to play people who he suspects of cheating like he don't want to play for the next WCC.

[CornfedForever]

Quite correct, you do not know why after losing one relatively poorly played OTB game to Hans - which broke a streak he was on - Magnus is scapegoating Hans for the sins of online cheaters the world over.

That's not what I said, I think I pointed out the difference between Niemann and others. I am sorry to repeat this, but you obviously did not understand it. Magnus and other top GMs got the impression Hans cheated also OTB. I know there is no proof for cheating, but there are statistics, that show, that Niemann plays "differently" to others, with a higher variety and less average quality of his moves. Together with the online history and sometimes wired analysis the suspicions are at least reasonable.

In any case, it was necessary to address the cheating problem and tighten the security measures at tournaments. Not only to prevent cheating, but also to prevent such discussions in the future. And after all this will help also Niemann, as long as he is able to play on a high level.

It is an important question which demands a reasonable answer - not from you of course. I am not sure Magnus has one though which would show him in a good light. Time (and lawsuits) will tell.

I think he has answered it sufficiently, even if some don't accept the reasons. He don't want to play people who he suspects of cheating like he don't want to play for the next WCC.

I think the difference between our positions is largely that you think Magnus can say/do as he wants (as long as he does not directly say something like: "Hans cheats in OTB chess, therefore I will not play him OTB - or, obviously Online)."
Whereas I say he lives in the same ecosystem (not on an island to himself) as Hans and such words/insinuations/actions have an affect on Hans and his ability to play the game OTB.

The saying is 'reasonable people can see things differently'. I think that is where we are...and why we have the lawsuit.
Perhaps we just have to agree to let the arbiter be: Does Magnus (or others) end up opening up his wallet or not.

[Chessqueen]

Quite correct, you do not know why after losing one relatively poorly played OTB game to Hans - which broke a streak he was on - Magnus is scapegoating Hans for the sins of online cheaters the world over.

That's not what I said, I think I pointed out the difference between Niemann and others. I am sorry to repeat this, but you obviously did not understand it. Magnus and other top GMs got the impression Hans cheated also OTB. I know there is no proof for cheating, but there are statistics, that show, that Niemann plays "differently" to others, with a higher variety and less average quality of his moves. Together with the online history and sometimes wired analysis the suspicions are at least reasonable.

In any case, it was necessary to address the cheating problem and tighten the security measures at tournaments. Not only to prevent cheating, but also to prevent such discussions in the future. And after all this will help also Niemann, as long as he is able to play on a high level.

It is an important question which demands a reasonable answer - not from you of course. I am not sure Magnus has one though which would show him in a good light. Time (and lawsuits) will tell.

I think he has answered it sufficiently, even if some don't accept the reasons. He don't want to play people who he suspects of cheating like he don't want to play for the next WCC.

I think the difference between our positions is largely that you think Magnus can say/do as he wants (as long as he does not directly say something like: "Hans cheats in OTB chess, therefore I will not play him OTB - or, obviously Online)."
Whereas I say he lives in the same ecosystem (not on an island to himself) as Hans and such words/insinuations/actions have an affect on Hans and his ability to play the game OTB.

The saying is 'reasonable people can see things differently'. I think that is where we are...and why we have the lawsuit.
Perhaps we just have to agree to let the arbiter be: Does Magnus (or others) end up opening up his wallet or not.

Niemann and Yu are dating, but if they get married, Yu will have to watch him be very carefully or Niemann might CHEAT on her too

[syzygy]

I think the difference between our positions is largely that you think Magnus can say/do as he wants (as long as he does not directly say something like: "Hans cheats in OTB chess, therefore I will not play him OTB - or, obviously Online)."
Whereas I say he lives in the same ecosystem (not on an island to himself) as Hans and such words/insinuations/actions have an affect on Hans and his ability to play the game OTB.

If Magnus says "I don't like Niemann as a person, and I am not going to play him anymore in the future", then that has an effect on Hans and his ability to play the game, but there is nothing he can do about it.

[Peter Berger]

I have not seen the full Nakamura streams…

Who has that much time? I’ve seen some of the highlights. There was a fair amount of behind the scenes gossiping, basically to make it seem as if Nakamura was in the know. But given the sheer amount of shit talking he did, who knows how he might have exposed himself? Law firms have people in the Philippines and India to help them go through large volumes of evidence. If there’s something there, they’ll find it.

The relevant quotes are in points 97 to 101 of Niemann's complaint (just looked it up).

Just the beginning of discovery.

The problem with sueing Hikaru Nakamura is a different one IMHO. I certainly agree that Hikaru was not very careful about the things he said, and some of what he said is extremely close to defamation.

Let's say Magnus Carlsen decided to sue our own Chessqueen - two questions would be asked (amongst others):
1.) Would a reasonable person even take this person seriously?
2.) How much damage exactly have his posts caused for you?

Of course even if Hikaru acts like the silliest person alive, you can still argue that he is one of the strongest chessplayers around, kind of influential because of this etc. - but the general level of his contributions as a content creator should help him here. If we forget about the ill-advised 100 millions claim, Hikaru is still the one who should feel a little uncomfortable with this lawsuit.

[CornfedForever]

I think the difference between our positions is largely that you think Magnus can say/do as he wants (as long as he does not directly say something like: "Hans cheats in OTB chess, therefore I will not play him OTB - or, obviously Online)."
Whereas I say he lives in the same ecosystem (not on an island to himself) as Hans and such words/insinuations/actions have an affect on Hans and his ability to play the game OTB.

If Magnus says "I don't like Niemann as a person, and I am not going to play him anymore in the future", then that has an effect on Hans and his ability to play the game, but there is nothing he can do about it.

If only that were the case! I think even Saul Goodman would laugh in your face if you gave him that to go to court with...

[Alexander Schmidt]

I think the difference between our positions is largely that you think Magnus can say/do as he wants (as long as he does not directly say something like: "Hans cheats in OTB chess, therefore I will not play him OTB - or, obviously Online)."

Legally spoken, yes. I think one should be allowed to express his opinion about someone else as long as he doesn't lie or insult other persons. That's how it is handled in my country, and after what I read here, it is probably similar in the U.S. And that is good. Imagine a person cheats in chess, people know that, but can't talk about it, because they have to fear to get sued.

Morally spoken, one has to endure skepticism when he cheated in the past. I'm really surprised that online cheating seems to be tolerated by so much people here.

[IanKennedy]

I think the difference between our positions is largely that you think Magnus can say/do as he wants (as long as he does not directly say something like: "Hans cheats in OTB chess, therefore I will not play him OTB - or, obviously Online)."

Legally spoken, yes. I think one should be allowed to express his opinion about someone else as long as he doesn't lie or insult other persons. That's how it is handled in my country, and after what I read here, it is probably similar in the U.S. And that is good. Imagine a person cheats in chess, people know that, but can't talk about it, because they have to fear to get sued.

Morally spoken, one has to endure skepticism when he cheated in the past. I'm really surprised that online cheating seems to be tolerated by so much people here.

chess.com did a poll the other day about attitudes to cheating and appropriate punishments, covering both online and OTB and including the age factor. Not sure if they are publishing the results.