'Mittens ChessBot' (Chess.com) Stuns Chessworld

[towforce]

Did we establish if Mittens is running on a server or the browser powered by the local PC?

The answer is "no": however, given that, in reality, we have no evidence that it's stronger than the vanilla chess.com bot at level 25, it probably uses similar technology, which is likely to be the move selection code of an old (pre NNUE) version of Dragon loaded in to the browser as a WASM program.

However, it looks as though when a web service request is made from WASM, it doesn't show up in the browser's network tab (WASM probably doesn't ask the browser to make the request - it probably does it all by itself), so we cannot know for sure.

One test we could do:

* start a game against Mittens

* after the game has started, disconnect the network

* see whether this prevents Mittens from making a response

[Werewolf]

And, by the way, they now have a new bot M3GAN, based on the new film which I wonder is a jab at Miss Markle.

Anyway, it says M3GAN is coming for Mittens.

[Werewolf]

Did we establish if Mittens is running on a server or the browser powered by the local PC?

The answer is "no": however, given that, in reality, we have no evidence that it's stronger than the vanilla chess.com bot at level 25, it probably uses similar technology, which is likely to be the move selection code of an old (pre NNUE) version of Dragon loaded in to the browser as a WASM program.

However, it looks as though when a web service request is made from WASM, it doesn't show up in the browser's network tab (WASM probably doesn't ask the browser to make the request - it probably does it all by itself), so we cannot know for sure.

One test we could do:

* start a game against Mittens

* after the game has started, disconnect the network

* see whether this prevents Mittens from making a response

That would be interesting.

I loaded up Task Manager and watched it closely. When I was due to move, Google Chrome dropped to about 10th place on TM. When Mittens was due to move Chrome shot up to first place for a second or two.

Seems to me like the engine runs in the browser with ponder off.

[towforce]

Did we establish if Mittens is running on a server or the browser powered by the local PC?

The answer is "no": however, given that, in reality, we have no evidence that it's stronger than the vanilla chess.com bot at level 25, it probably uses similar technology, which is likely to be the move selection code of an old (pre NNUE) version of Dragon loaded in to the browser as a WASM program.

However, it looks as though when a web service request is made from WASM, it doesn't show up in the browser's network tab (WASM probably doesn't ask the browser to make the request - it probably does it all by itself), so we cannot know for sure.

One test we could do:

* start a game against Mittens

* after the game has started, disconnect the network

* see whether this prevents Mittens from making a response

That would be interesting.

I loaded up Task Manager and watched it closely. When I was due to move, Google Chrome dropped to about 10th place on TM. When Mittens was due to move Chrome shot up to first place for a second or two.

Seems to me like the engine runs in the browser with ponder off.

Thank you for doing that experiment. Based on the the information in this thread, it seems likely that Mittens, along with the other chess.com bots, uses the move selection code from a pre-NNUE version of Komodo Dragon recompiled for WASM.

It's difficult to explain why chess.com decided to weaken Mittens for a few days, but this is probably an anomaly rather than a key clue indicating server usage I first thought it was.

Also, given that Mittens is probably not stronger than the standard chess.com bot at level 25, the level of publicity it received seems to also have been an anomaly rather than an indicator of a significant increase in strength (indicating NNUE) that I had previously assumed.

[CornfedForever]

Also, given that Mittens is probably not stronger than the standard chess.com bot at level 25, the level of publicity it received seems to also have been an anomaly rather than an indicator of a significant increase in strength (indicating NNUE) that I had previously assumed.

You seriously do not think it was EVER about 'significant increase in strength', do you?
It was truly only ever about a trash talking cat personality that happens to be strong enough to beat any human on any given day. That's all.

Of course, on this forum we get what could be expected: people with an innate need to dissect/categorize and obsess over things like 'engine strength'...and maybe then give the whole thing a dismissive "an anomaly" regarding the amount of talk elsewhere about it. If you read some of the insane number of posts on the chess.com thread dedicated to it...that's not what most people playing it talk or even care about.

[towforce]

Also, given that Mittens is probably not stronger than the standard chess.com bot at level 25, the level of publicity it received seems to also have been an anomaly rather than an indicator of a significant increase in strength (indicating NNUE) that I had previously assumed.

You seriously do not think it was EVER about 'significant increase in strength', do you?
It was truly only ever about a trash talking cat personality that happens to be strong enough to beat any human on any given day. That's all.

Of course, on this forum we get what could be expected: people with an innate need to dissect/categorize and obsess over things like 'engine strength'...and maybe then give the whole thing a dismissive "an anomaly" regarding the amount of talk elsewhere about it. If you read some of the insane number of posts on the chess.com thread dedicated to it...that's not what most people playing it talk or even care about.

Well that told me!

Yes - given that top chess YouTubers like Hikaru and Gotham were making multiple videos about it, I did assume it was a significant increase in strength. You'll have to come to terms with the fact that internet forums are populated by domesticated apes, and these creatures don't always guess everything correctly the first time. I'm actually happy to be wrong: as a result, I learned a lot about chess.com's chessbots - and initially being wrong was a small price to pay for that IMO.

[lkaufman]

Have any humans drawn or won vs. mittens on record (excluding Hikaru winning with pawn b7 odds)? I estimate mittens about 3150 Rapid (mittens playing bullet) so top pros may get an occasional draw with white if they play at rapid (not blitz) speed.

[CornfedForever]

Have any humans drawn or won vs. mittens on record (excluding Hikaru winning with pawn b7 odds)? I estimate mittens about 3150 Rapid (mittens playing bullet) so top pros may get an occasional draw with white if they play at rapid (not blitz) speed.

On the main chess.com thread about Mittens, many people indicate they have beaten it. True or not, I don't know. But...perhaps there is some similarity between it and real cats.

I have 3 and one in particular carries the same 'blank face around with it all day, you cannot tell what it might be thinking - "I'm looking at you while your back is turned because I am grateful for how you take care of and feed me." or "If you don't turn around in 10 sec and see that I am hungry, I am going to take these sharp claws, sneak up behind you and slash your throat!".

Not saying it is the case, but it would be refreshing not knowing if you are getting a 3200 Mittens or one that will take mercy and give you a chance....teasing and chastising you all the way.

There is room for both, but arguably chess as a game...should be fun, not a 'science'.

[CornfedForever]

Yes - given that top chess YouTubers like Hikaru and Gotham were making multiple videos about it...

Hikaru and perhaps especially Gotham...owe a lot to chess.com. I think I've even seen them play that abomination called Duck Chess.

[lkaufman]

Have any humans drawn or won vs. mittens on record (excluding Hikaru winning with pawn b7 odds)? I estimate mittens about 3150 Rapid (mittens playing bullet) so top pros may get an occasional draw with white if they play at rapid (not blitz) speed.

On the main chess.com thread about Mittens, many people indicate they have beaten it. True or not, I don't know. But...perhaps there is some similarity between it and real cats.

I have 3 and one in particular carries the same 'blank face around with it all day, you cannot tell what it might be thinking - "I'm looking at you while your back is turned because I am grateful for how you take care of and feed me." or "If you don't turn around in 10 sec and see that I am hungry, I am going to take these sharp claws, sneak up behind you and slash your throat!".

Not saying it is the case, but it would be refreshing not knowing if you are getting a 3200 Mittens or one that will take mercy and give you a chance....teasing and chastising you all the way.

There is room for both, but arguably chess as a game...should be fun, not a 'science'.

I read that after a few days they lowered the strength of Mittens, then later raised it back to original strength. So perhaps the people claiming to havebeat it did so when it was weakened. I should have asked whether any humans beat or drew the Mitten bots when it was supposedly playing a full strength.