Can white win?

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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peter
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Can white win?

Post by peter »

Hobacle wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 3:05 pm What I want to see is only 1.d3 wins, 1.d4, 1.h3 and 1.Nc2 will draw by the 50-move rule(the use of h3 is only reseting the DTZ). Also I wonder whether the result of 1.d3 is a mate or a winning endgame.
I can imagine, that 1.d3 has the edge as for sparing h3 longer, so 50 moves- count resetting can be delayed till necessary. Difference to 1.d4 shows after

1. d4 Kxe1 2. d5 Ke2 3. d6 Nxd6 4. Nxd6 Ke1 5. Nb5 Ke2 and 6.(or 7. transposing with Nd4) h3 is needed already to get Black into zuwgzwang, 6...Ke1 7.Nd4 Kd1 8.Kf1

That makes a difference to

1. d3 Kxe1 2. d4 Ke2 3. d5 Ke1 4. d6 Nxd6 5. Nxd6 Ke2 6. Nb5 Ke1 and Black with 7. Nd4 is already in zugzwang without h3
7...Kd1 8. Kf1
so h3 can be delayed till 50 moves arise for first time.

Yet I gave up with best DTM anyhow, something like this
[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "Dort"]
[Date "2023.05.10"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Hobacle, Single"]
[Black "Horse, First?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4n2n/5ppr/5prb/1N3Pp1/5pP1/5P2/3Pk1PP/4N1K1 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "149"]

1. d3 Kxe1 2. d4 Kd2 3. Kf1 Kd3 4. d5 Kc4 5. d6 Nxd6 6. Nxd6+ Kd3 7. Ne4 Ke3 8. Nf2 Kd4 9. Ke2 Kc3 10. Ne4+ Kc2 11. Ke1 Kc1 12. Nc5 Kc2 13. Kf2 Kc3 14. Ke2 Kb2 15. Kf1 Kc2 16. Ke1 Kb2 17. Nd3+ Ka3 18. Kf1 Kb3 19. Kf2 Kc4 20. Ke2 Kd5 21. Kd1 Kd4 22. Kd2 Kd5 23. Kc3 Kc6 24. Kc4 Kb6 25. Nb4 Ka5 26. Nd5 Ka4 27. Nb6+ Ka3 28. Kd3 Kb3 29. Nd5 Kb2 30. Kd2 Kb3 31. Ne7 Kb2 32. Nc6 Ka3 33. Kc2 Ka4 34. Nd4 Kb4 35. Kd3 Ka5 36. Kd2 Kb6 37. Kc2 Ka7 38. Kc3 Ka8 39. Kc4 Ka7 40. Kc5 Kb7 41. h3 Kc7 42. Nb5+ Kb7 43. Na3 Kc7 44. Nc4 Kb7 45. Kd6 Ka7 46. Kc7 Ka6 47. Kc6 Ka7 48. Kb5 Kb8 49. Nd6 Kc7 50. Kc5 Kd7 51. Nb5 Kc8 52. Kb6 Kd8 53. Kc6 Kc8 54. Nc7 Kb8 55. Kb6 Kc8 56. Na6 Kd8 57. Kb5 Kd7 58. Kc5 Kd8 59. Kd6 Kc8 60. Kc6 Kd8 61. Nb8 Kc8 62. Nd7 Kd8 63. Nb6 Ke8 64. Kc7 Ke7 65. Nd5+ Ke8 66. Kc8 Kf8 67. Kd7 Kg8 68. Nb6 Kf8 69. Kd8 Kg8 70. g3 Kf8 71. Nd7+ Kg8 72. Ke8 fxg3 73. Nb6 g2 74. Nd5 g1=Q 75. Ne7# 1-0
[/pgn]

won't be fully correct, e.g at the very start 2....Kd2 ?! makes it shorter as for the better way shown before with 2...Ke2, regards
Peter.
peter
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Can white win?

Post by peter »

peter wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 8:53 pm won't be fully correct, e.g at the very start 2....Kd2 ?! makes it shorter as for the better way shown before with 2...Ke2, regards
Yet 2...Ke2 doesn't seem to make it really longer, because at both ways sooner h3 than in last but one line (at 25th now) cuts several moves again. Maybe rather something like that?

[pgn][Event "?"]
[Site "Dort"]
[Date "2023.05.10"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Hobacle, Single"]
[Black "Horse, First?"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Annotator "SlowChess"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4n2n/5ppr/5prb/1N3Pp1/5pP1/5P2/3Pk1PP/4N1K1 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "143"]

1. d3 Kxe1 2. d4 Ke2 (2... Kd2 $5 3. Kf1 Kd3 4. d5 Kc4 5. d6 Nxd6 6. Nxd6+ Kd3 7. Ne4 Ke3 8. Nf2 Kd4 9. Ke2 Kc3 10. Ne4+ Kc2 11. Ke1 Kc1 12. Nc5 Kc2 13. Kf2 Kc3 14. Ke2 Kb2 15. Kf1 Kc2 16. Ke1 Kb2 17. Nd3+ Ka3 18. Kf1 Kb3 19. Kf2 Kc4 20. Ke2 Kd5 21. Kd1 Kd4 22. Kd2 Kd5 23. Kc3 Kc6 24. Kc4 Kb6 25. h3 Kc6 26. Nc1 Kb6 27. Nb3 Kc6 28. Na5+ Kb6 29. Kb4 Ka6 30. Nc4 Kb7 31. Kc5 Ka6 32. Kc6 Ka7 33. Na5 Kb8 34. Kb6 Kc8 35. Nc4 Kd8 36. Kc6 Kc8 37. Nd6+ Kb8 38. Kb6 Ka8 39. Ne8 Kb8 40. Nc7 Kc8 41. Na6 Kd8 42. Kc5 Kd7 43. Kd5 Kd8 44. Kd6 Kc8 45. Kc6 Kd8 46. Nc5 Kc8 47. Nd7 Kd8 48. Nb6 Ke8 49. Kc7 Ke7 50. Nd5+ Ke8 51. Kc8 Kf8 52. Kd7 Kg8 53. Nb6 Kf8 54. Kd8 Kg8 55. g3 Kf8 56. Nd7+ Kg8 57. Ke8 fxg3 58. Nb6 g2 59. Nc8 g1=Q 60. Ne7#) 3. d5 Ke1 4. d6 Nxd6 5. Nxd6 Ke2 6. Nb5 Ke1 7. Nd4 Kd1 8. Kf1 Kc1 9. Nb5 Kb2 10. Ke2 Kb3 11. Nd6 Ka2 12. Ne4 Kb2 13. Kd2 Kb3 14. Nc5+ Kb2 15. Nd3+ Kb3 16. Ke2 Ka3 17. Kd1 Kb3 18. Nf2 Kc3 19. Ke2 Kb3 20. Kd3 Ka2 21. Kc2 Ka3 22. Nd3 Ka2 23. Nb2 Ka3 24. Nc4+ Kb4 25. Nd2 Ka3 26. Kb1 Ka4 27. Ka2 Kb4 28. Kb2 Ka4 29. Nb1 Kb4 30. Na3 Ka4 31. Nc2 Kb5 32. Kc3 Ka4 33. Kc4 Ka5 34. Kb3 Kb5 35. Nd4+ Kc5 36. Kc3 Kd5 37. Nb3 Kc6 38. Kc4 Kb6 39. h3 Kc6 40. Na5+ Kb6 41. Kb4 Ka6 42. Nc4 Kb7 43. Kc5 Ka6 44. Kc6 Ka7 45. Nd6 Ka6 46. Nb7 Ka7 47. Nc5 Kb8 48. Kb6 Ka8 49. Ne4 Kb8 50. Nd6 Ka8 51. Nb5 Kb8 52. Nc7 Kc8 53. Na6 Kd8 54. Kc5 Kd7 55. Kd5 Kd8 56. Kd6 Kc8 57. Kc6 Kd8 58. Nc5 Ke8 59. Nd7 Ke7 60. Kc7 Ke8 61. Nb6 Ke7 62. Nd5+ Ke8 63. Kc8 Kf8 64. Kd7 Kg8 65. Nb6 Kf8 66. Kd8 Kg8 67. g3 Kf8 68. Nd7+ Kg8 69. Ke8 fxg3 70. Nb6 g2 71. Nd5 g1=Q 72. Ne7# 1-0
[/pgn]
Peter.
Hobacle
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Full name: Nott Q Suree

Re: Can white win?

Post by Hobacle »

peter wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 8:53 pm
Hobacle wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 3:05 pm What I want to see is only 1.d3 wins, 1.d4, 1.h3 and 1.Nc2 will draw by the 50-move rule(the use of h3 is only reseting the DTZ). Also I wonder whether the result of 1.d3 is a mate or a winning endgame.
Yet I gave up with best DTM anyhow
The DTM doesn't really matters. Can we be sure that 1.d3 is the only move to win?
peter
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Can white win?

Post by peter »

Hobacle wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 12:57 am
peter wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 8:53 pm
Hobacle wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 3:05 pm What I want to see is only 1.d3 wins, 1.d4, 1.h3 and 1.Nc2 will draw by the 50-move rule(the use of h3 is only reseting the DTZ). Also I wonder whether the result of 1.d3 is a mate or a winning endgame.
Yet I gave up with best DTM anyhow
The DTM doesn't really matters. Can we be sure that 1.d3 is the only move to win?
No
:)
Yet I guess yes.
Peter.
Ignacio
Posts: 178
Joined: Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:15 pm

Re: Can white win?

Post by Ignacio »

Peter, after 5. Nxd6 Ke2 Chest finds mate in 69.

FEN: 7n/5ppr/3N1prb/5Pp1/5pP1/5P2/4k1PP/6K1 w - - 1 6

Chest 5.2:
FEN: 7n/5ppr/3N1prb/5Pp1/5pP1/5P2/4k1PP/6K1 w - - (7+10)
Position-Analysis: C0/R0/K6/P1/X5 W:5/12
Search for 1. Special-Mate [C10/R0/K8/P2/X7] in 126 ... (Hash=2044MB)
69 01:01 64.328.251 1.070.977 +M69 Cd6-b5
Search completed ... (Time=61.41s)
Mate in 69 found ! (1. Solution in 01:01)
69/69 01:01 65.871.863 1.072.639 +M69 Cd6-b5 Re2-e1 Cb5-d4 Re1-d1 Rg1-f1 Rd1-d2 Cd4-b5 Rd2-d3 Cb5-d6 Rd3-e3 Cd6-e4 Re3-d3 Rf1-e1 Rd3-c2 Re1-e2 Rc2-c1 Ce4-c3 Rc1-c2 Cc3-b5 Rc2-b3 Re2-d2 Rb3-b4 Cb5-c3 Rb4-c4 Cc3-e2 Rc4-b4 Rd2-d3 Rb4-b3 Ce2-c1+ Rb3-b2 Rd3-d2 Rb2-b1 Cc1-d3 Rb1-a1 Rd2-c1 Ra1-a2 Rc1-c2 Ra2-a1 Cd3-c5 Ra1-a2 Cc5-b3 Ra2-a3 Cb3-c1 Ra3-b4 Rc2-d3 Rb4-a4 Rd3-c4 Ra4-a3 Rc4-c3 Ra3-a4 Cc1-a2 Ra4-a3 Ca2-b4 Ra3-a4 Cb4-c2 Ra4-b5 Rc3-d4 Rb5-a5 Rd4-c5 Ra5-a4 Rc5-c4 Ra4-a5 Cc2-a3 Ra5-a6 Ca3-b5 Ra6-a5 Cb5-c3 Ra5-b6 Cc3-e4 Rb6-a6 Rc4-c5 Ra6-a5 Ce4-c3 Ra5-a6 Cc3-a4 Ra6-a5 Ca4-b6 Ra5-a6 Cb6-c4 Ra6-b7 Rc5-b5 Rb7-c7 h2-h3 Rc7-d7 Rb5-c5 Rd7-c7 Cc4-d6 Rc7-d7 Cd6-b5 Rd7-c8 Rc5-b6 Rc8-d8 Rb6-c6 Rd8-c8 Cb5-c7 Rc8-d8 Cc7-a6 Rd8-c8 Rc6-b6 Rc8-d8 Rb6-b5 Rd8-d7 Rb5-c5 Rd7-d8 Rc5-d6 Rd8-c8 Rd6-c6 Rc8-d8 Ca6-b8 Rd8-c8 Cb8-d7 Rc8-d8 Cd7-b6 Rd8-e8 Cb6-c8 Re8-d8 Cc8-d6 Rd8-e7 Rc6-c7 Re7-f8 Rc7-d8 Rf8-g8 Cd6-c8 Rg8-f8 Cc8-b6 Rf8-g8 g2-g3 Rg8-f8 Cb6-d7+ Rf8-g8 Rd8-e8 f4xg3 Cd7-b8 g3-g2 Cb8-c6 g2-g1D Cc6-e7+

And after 6. Nxd6+ Kd3 finds mate in 65.

FEN: 7n/5ppr/3N1prb/5Pp1/5pP1/3k1P2/6PP/5K2 w - - 1 7

Chest 5.2:
FEN: 7n/5ppr/3N1prb/5Pp1/5pP1/3k1P2/6PP/5K2 w - - (7+10)
Position-Analysis: C0/R0/K6/P1/X5 W:5/14
Search for 1. Special-Mate [C10/R0/K8/P2/X7] in 126 ... (Hash=2044MB)
65 00:50 61.359.877 1.224.210 +M65 Cd6-e4
Search completed ... (Time=50.47s)
Mate in 65 found ! (1. Solution in 00:50)
65/65 00:50 61.780.917 1.224.063 +M65 Cd6-e4 Rd3-e3 Rf1-e1 Re3-d3 Re1-f2 Rd3-c2 Rf2-e2 Rc2-c1 Ce4-c3 Rc1-c2 Cc3-b5 Rc2-b3 Re2-d2 Rb3-b4 Cb5-c3 Rb4-c4 Cc3-e2 Rc4-b4 Rd2-d3 Rb4-b3 Ce2-c1+ Rb3-b2 Rd3-d2 Rb2-b1 Cc1-d3 Rb1-a1 Rd2-c1 Ra1-a2 Rc1-c2 Ra2-a1 Cd3-c5 Ra1-a2 Cc5-b3 Ra2-a3 Cb3-c1 Ra3-b4 Rc2-d3 Rb4-a4 Rd3-c4 Ra4-a3 Rc4-c3 Ra3-a4 Cc1-a2 Ra4-a3 Ca2-b4 Ra3-a4 Cb4-c2 Ra4-b5 Rc3-d4 Rb5-a5 Rd4-c5 Ra5-a4 Rc5-c4 Ra4-a5 Cc2-a3 Ra5-a6 Ca3-b5 Ra6-a5 Cb5-c3 Ra5-b6 Cc3-e4 Rb6-a6 Rc4-c5 Ra6-a5 Ce4-c3 Ra5-a6 Cc3-a4 Ra6-a5 Ca4-b6 Ra5-a6 Cb6-c4 Ra6-b7 Rc5-b5 Rb7-c7 h2-h3 Rc7-d7 Rb5-c5 Rd7-c7 Cc4-d6 Rc7-d7 Cd6-b5 Rd7-c8 Rc5-b6 Rc8-d8 Rb6-c6 Rd8-c8 Cb5-c7 Rc8-d8 Cc7-a6 Rd8-c8 Rc6-b6 Rc8-d8 Rb6-b5 Rd8-d7 Rb5-c5 Rd7-d8 Rc5-d6 Rd8-c8 Rd6-c6 Rc8-d8 Ca6-b8 Rd8-c8 Cb8-d7 Rc8-d8 Cd7-b6 Rd8-e8 Cb6-c8 Re8-d8 Cc8-d6 Rd8-e7 Rc6-c7 Re7-f8 Rc7-d8 Rf8-g8 Cd6-c8 Rg8-f8 Cc8-b6 Rf8-g8 g2-g3 Rg8-f8 Cb6-d7+ Rf8-g8 Rd8-e8 f4xg3 Cd7-b8 g3-g2 Cb8-c6 g2-g1D Cc6-e7+
Last edited by Ignacio on Fri May 12, 2023 9:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
peter
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Can white win?

Post by peter »

Ignacio wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 9:00 am Peter, after 5. Nxd6 Ke2 Chest finds mate in 69.

FEN: 7n/5ppr/3N1prb/5Pp1/5pP1/5P2/4k1PP/6K1 w - - 1 6

Chest 5.2:
FEN: 7n/5ppr/3N1prb/5Pp1/5pP1/5P2/4k1PP/6K1 w - - (7+10)
Position-Analysis: C0/R0/K6/P1/X5 W:5/12
Search for 1. Special-Mate [C10/R0/K8/P2/X7] in 126 ... (Hash=2044MB)
69 01:01 64.328.251 1.070.977 +M69 Cd6-b5
Search completed ... (Time=61.41s)
Mate in 69 found ! (1. Solution in 01:01)
69/69 01:01 65.871.863 1.072.639 +M69 Cd6-b5 Re2-e1 Cb5-d4 Re1-d1 Rg1-f1 Rd1-d2 Cd4-b5 Rd2-d3 Cb5-d6 Rd3-e3 Cd6-e4 Re3-d3 Rf1-e1 Rd3-c2 Re1-e2 Rc2-c1 Ce4-c3 Rc1-c2 Cc3-b5 Rc2-b3 Re2-d2 Rb3-b4 Cb5-c3 Rb4-c4 Cc3-e2 Rc4-b4 Rd2-d3 Rb4-b3 Ce2-c1+ Rb3-b2 Rd3-d2 Rb2-b1 Cc1-d3 Rb1-a1 Rd2-c1 Ra1-a2 Rc1-c2 Ra2-a1 Cd3-c5 Ra1-a2 Cc5-b3 Ra2-a3 Cb3-c1 Ra3-b4 Rc2-d3 Rb4-a4 Rd3-c4 Ra4-a3 Rc4-c3 Ra3-a4 Cc1-a2 Ra4-a3 Ca2-b4 Ra3-a4 Cb4-c2 Ra4-b5 Rc3-d4 Rb5-a5 Rd4-c5 Ra5-a4 Rc5-c4 Ra4-a5 Cc2-a3 Ra5-a6 Ca3-b5 Ra6-a5 Cb5-c3 Ra5-b6 Cc3-e4 Rb6-a6 Rc4-c5 Ra6-a5 Ce4-c3 Ra5-a6 Cc3-a4 Ra6-a5 Ca4-b6 Ra5-a6 Cb6-c4 Ra6-b7 Rc5-b5 Rb7-c7 h2-h3 Rc7-d7 Rb5-c5 Rd7-c7 Cc4-d6 Rc7-d7 Cd6-b5 Rd7-c8 Rc5-b6 Rc8-d8 Rb6-c6 Rd8-c8 Cb5-c7 Rc8-d8 Cc7-a6 Rd8-c8 Rc6-b6 Rc8-d8 Rb6-b5 Rd8-d7 Rb5-c5 Rd7-d8 Rc5-d6 Rd8-c8 Rd6-c6 Rc8-d8 Ca6-b8 Rd8-c8 Cb8-d7 Rc8-d8 Cd7-b6 Rd8-e8 Cb6-c8 Re8-d8 Cc8-d6 Rd8-e7 Rc6-c7 Re7-f8 Rc7-d8 Rf8-g8 Cd6-c8 Rg8-f8 Cc8-b6 Rf8-g8 g2-g3 Rg8-f8 Cb6-d7+ Rf8-g8 Rd8-e8 f4xg3 Cd7-b8 g3-g2 Cb8-c6 g2-g1D Cc6-e7+
Good do know, Ignazio, thanks. So my guess with 72 all in all wasn't so bad. Will give your Chest- params a try.

Edit: These are working well, regards
Peter.
peter
Posts: 3477
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: Can white win?

Post by peter »

peter wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 8:54 am
Hobacle wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 12:57 am
peter wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 8:53 pm
Hobacle wrote: Thu May 11, 2023 3:05 pm What I want to see is only 1.d3 wins, 1.d4, 1.h3 and 1.Nc2 will draw by the 50-move rule(the use of h3 is only reseting the DTZ). Also I wonder whether the result of 1.d3 is a mate or a winning endgame.
Yet I gave up with best DTM anyhow
The DTM doesn't really matters. Can we be sure that 1.d3 is the only move to win?
No
:)
Yet I guess yes.
Gave Ignazio's Chest- paramaters a try from position after
1. d4 Kxe1 2. d5 Ke2 3. d6 Nxd6 4. Nxd6 Ke1 and got a mate in 75- output:

FEN: 7n/5ppr/3N1prb/5Pp1/5pP1/5P2/6PP/4k1K1 w - - (7+10)
Stellungs-Analyse: C0/R0/K4/P1/X3 W:5/12
Suche nach 1. Spezial-Matt [C10/R0/K8/P2/X7] in 75 ... (Hash=2044MB)
75.01 0:43 +M75 5.h3 1633
Suche abgeschlossen ... (Zeit=43.05s)
Berechnung abgebrochen !
Matt in 75 gefunden ! (1. Lösung in 00:43)
75/75 0:43 +M75 5.h3 Ke2 6.Sb5 Ke1 7.Sd4 Kd1 8.Kf1 Kd2 9.Sb5 Kd1 10.Sd6 Kd2 11.Kf2 Kd3 12.Se4 Kc2 13.Ke2 Kc1 14.Sc3 Kc2 15.Sb5 Kb3 16.Kd2 Kb4 17.Sc3 Kc4 18.Sd1 1634
Bester Zug: h2-h3 Zeit: 4:14.250 min K/s: 1.634.157 Knoten: 70.350.488

and of this one full line:
[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "Dort"]
[Date "2023.05.10"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Hobacle, Single"]
[Black "Horse, First?"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "4n2n/5ppr/5prb/1N3Pp1/5pP1/5P2/3Pk1PP/4N1K1 w - -"]

1. d4 Kxe1 2. d5 Ke2 3. d6 Nxd6 4. Nxd6 Ke1 5. h3 Ke2
6. Nb5 Ke1 7. Nd4 Kd1 8. Kf1 Kd2 9. Nb5 Kd1 10. Nd6 Kd2
11. Kf2 Kd3 12. Ne4 Kc2 13. Ke2 Kc1 14. Nc3 Kc2 15. Nb5 Kb3
16. Kd2 Kb4 17. Nc3 Kc4 18. Nd1 Kb4 19. Nb2 Kb3 20. Nd3 Kc4
21. Nc1 Kd4 22. Nb3+ Kc4 23. Kc2 Kb4 24. Nd2 Ka4 25. Kc3
Ka3 26. Nb3 Ka4 27. Nc1 Ka3 28. Kc2 Ka4 29. Na2 Ka3 30. Nc3
Kb4 31. Nb1 Kc4 32. Na3+ Kb4 33. Kb2 Ka4 34. Nc2 Kb5
35. Kb3 Kc5 36. Kc3 Kb5 37. Kd4 Ka5 38. Kc5 Ka4 39. Kc4 Ka5
40. Na3 Ka6 41. Nb5 Kb6 42. Nc3 Kc6 43. Nd5 Kd6 44. Nb4 Ke5
45. Kc3 Kd6 46. Kd4 Kc7 47. Kc5 Kb7 48. Nd5 Ka6 49. Kb4 Ka7
50. Kb5 Kb7 51. Nc3 Kc7 52. Ne4 Kb7 53. Nd6+ Kc7 54. Kc5
Kd7 55. Nb5 {50 moves} Kc8 56. Kb6 Kd8 57. Kc6 Kc8 58. Nc7
Kd8 59. Na6 Kc8 60. Kb6 Kd8 61. Kb5 Kd7 62. Kc5 Kd8 63. Kd6
Kc8 64. Kc6 Kd8 65. Nb8 Kc8 66. Nd7 Kd8 67. Nb6 Ke8 68. Nc8
Kd8 69. Nd6 Ke7 70. Kc7 Kf8 71. Kd8 Kg8 72. Nc8 Kf8 73. Nb6
Kg8 74. g3 Kf8 75. Nd7+ Kg8 76. Ke8 fxg3 77. Nb8 g2 78. Nc6
g1=Q 79. Ne7# 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]

So that's indeed one more good hint that after 1.d4 the longer for 4 DTM is enough to reach 50 moves boundary at 55th with the need of h3 too soon (here already played at 5th with transp. to lines we already had with it at 6th or 7th), regards
Peter.
Hobacle
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Full name: Nott Q Suree

Re: Can white win?

Post by Hobacle »

Ignacio wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 9:00 am FEN: 7n/5ppr/3N1prb/5Pp1/5pP1/5P2/4k1PP/6K1 w - - 1 6

Chest 5.2:
FEN: 7n/5ppr/3N1prb/5Pp1/5pP1/5P2/4k1PP/6K1 w - - (7+10)
Position-Analysis: C0/R0/K6/P1/X5 W:5/12
Search for 1. Special-Mate [C10/R0/K8/P2/X7] in 126 ... (Hash=2044MB)
69 01:01 64.328.251 1.070.977 +M69 Cd6-b5
Search completed ... (Time=61.41s)
Mate in 69 found ! (1. Solution in 01:01)
69/69 01:01 65.871.863 1.072.639 +M69 Cd6-b5 Re2-e1 Cb5-d4 Re1-d1 Rg1-f1 Rd1-d2 Cd4-b5 Rd2-d3 Cb5-d6 Rd3-e3 Cd6-e4 Re3-d3 Rf1-e1 Rd3-c2 Re1-e2 Rc2-c1 Ce4-c3 Rc1-c2 Cc3-b5 Rc2-b3 Re2-d2 Rb3-b4 Cb5-c3 Rb4-c4 Cc3-e2 Rc4-b4 Rd2-d3 Rb4-b3 Ce2-c1+ Rb3-b2 Rd3-d2 Rb2-b1 Cc1-d3 Rb1-a1 Rd2-c1 Ra1-a2 Rc1-c2 Ra2-a1 Cd3-c5 Ra1-a2 Cc5-b3 Ra2-a3 Cb3-c1 Ra3-b4 Rc2-d3 Rb4-a4 Rd3-c4 Ra4-a3 Rc4-c3 Ra3-a4 Cc1-a2 Ra4-a3 Ca2-b4 Ra3-a4 Cb4-c2 Ra4-b5 Rc3-d4 Rb5-a5 Rd4-c5 Ra5-a4 Rc5-c4 Ra4-a5 Cc2-a3 Ra5-a6 Ca3-b5 Ra6-a5 Cb5-c3 Ra5-b6 Cc3-e4 Rb6-a6 Rc4-c5 Ra6-a5 Ce4-c3 Ra5-a6 Cc3-a4 Ra6-a5 Ca4-b6 Ra5-a6 Cb6-c4 Ra6-b7 Rc5-b5 Rb7-c7 h2-h3 Rc7-d7 Rb5-c5 Rd7-c7 Cc4-d6 Rc7-d7 Cd6-b5 Rd7-c8 Rc5-b6 Rc8-d8 Rb6-c6 Rd8-c8 Cb5-c7 Rc8-d8 Cc7-a6 Rd8-c8 Rc6-b6 Rc8-d8 Rb6-b5 Rd8-d7 Rb5-c5 Rd7-d8 Rc5-d6 Rd8-c8 Rd6-c6 Rc8-d8 Ca6-b8 Rd8-c8 Cb8-d7 Rc8-d8 Cd7-b6 Rd8-e8 Cb6-c8 Re8-d8 Cc8-d6 Rd8-e7 Rc6-c7 Re7-f8 Rc7-d8 Rf8-g8 Cd6-c8 Rg8-f8 Cc8-b6 Rf8-g8 g2-g3 Rg8-f8 Cb6-d7+ Rf8-g8 Rd8-e8 f4xg3 Cd7-b8 g3-g2 Cb8-c6 g2-g1D Cc6-e7+
Thank you very much!
Hobacle
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Full name: Nott Q Suree

Re: Can white win?

Post by Hobacle »

I have this one new, but it needs to be proven. It's too tight:
[pgn][Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date ""]
[Round ""]
[White ""]
[Black ""]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "5Nbn/5ppr/5prb/5Pp1/5pP1/5P1P/6P1/4k2K w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. Kg1 Ke2 2. Nd7 Ke1 3. Nc5 Ke2 4. Nb3 Ke1 5. Nd4 Kd1 6. Kf1 Kd2 7. Nb5 Kd1 8.
Nd6 Kd2 9. Kf2 Kd3 10. Ne4 Kc2 11. Ke2 Kc1 12. Nc3 Kc2 13. Nb5 Kb3 14. Kd2 Kb4
15. Nc3 Kc4 16. Nd1 Kb4 17. Nb2 Kb3 18. Nd3 Kc4 19. Nc1 Kd4 20. Nb3+ Kc4 21.
Kc2 Kb4 22. Nd2 Ka4 23. Kc3 Ka3 24. Nb3 Ka4 25. Nc1 Ka3 26. Kc2 Ka4 27. Na2 Ka3
28. Nc3 Kb4 29. Nb1 Kc4 30. Na3+ Kb4 31. Kb2 Ka4 32. Nc2 Kb5 33. Kb3 Kc5 34.
Kc3 Kb5 35. Kd4 Ka5 36. Kc5 Ka4 37. Kc4 Ka5 38. Nd4 Ka6 39. Kc5 Ka5 40. Nb5 Ka4
41. Kc4 Ka5 42. Nc3 Kb6 43. Kd5 Ka6 44. Kc6 Ka5 45. Kc5 Ka6 46. Nd5 Ka5 47. Ne7
Ka4 48. Kc4 Ka3 49. Kc3 Ka2 50. Nxg8 Kb1 51. Kd2 Kb2 52. Ne7 Kb3 53. Nd5 Kc4
54. Nc3 Kb4 55. Nd1 Kc4 56. Nb2+ Kd4 57. Nd3 Kc4 58. Nc1 Kd4 59. Nb3+ Kc4 60.
Kc2 Kb4 61. Nd2 Ka4 62. Kc3 Ka3 63. Nb3 Ka4 64. Nc1 Ka3 65. Kc2 Ka4 66. Na2 Ka3
67. Nc3 Kb4 68. Nb1 Kc4 69. Na3+ Kb4 70. Kb2 Ka4 71. Nc2 Kb5 72. Kb3 Kc5 73.
Kc3 Kb5 74. Kd4 Ka5 75. Kc5 Ka4 76. Kc4 Ka5 77. Nd4 Ka6 78. Kc5 Ka5 79. Nb5 Ka4
80. Kc4 Ka5 81. Nc3 Kb6 82. Kd5 Ka6 83. Kc6 Ka5 84. Kc5 Ka6 85. Nd5 Ka5 86. Nb6
Ka6 87. Nc4 Kb7 88. Kd6 Ka6 89. Kc6 Ka7 90. Nd6 Ka6 91. Nb7 Ka7 92. Nc5 Kb8 93.
Kd7 Ka7 94. Ke7 Kb6 95. Ne4 Kb5 96. Kf8 Kc4 97. Kg8 Kd3 98. Kxh7 Ke2 99. Kxh8
Kf1 100. Nd6 Kxg2 101. Nxf7 Kxf3 102. fxg6 1-0

[/pgn]
Hobacle
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:57 pm
Full name: Nott Q Suree

Re: Can white win?

Post by Hobacle »

Hobacle wrote: Fri May 12, 2023 4:20 pm I have this one new, but it needs to be proven. It's too tight:
[pgn][Event ""]
[Site ""]
[Date ""]
[Round ""]
[White ""]
[Black ""]
[Result "1-0"]
[FEN "5Nbn/5ppr/5prb/5Pp1/5pP1/5P1P/6P1/4k2K w - - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]

1. Kg1 Ke2 2. Nd7 Ke1 3. Nc5 Ke2 4. Nb3 Ke1 5. Nd4 Kd1 6. Kf1 Kd2 7. Nb5 Kd1 8.
Nd6 Kd2 9. Kf2 Kd3 10. Ne4 Kc2 11. Ke2 Kc1 12. Nc3 Kc2 13. Nb5 Kb3 14. Kd2 Kb4
15. Nc3 Kc4 16. Nd1 Kb4 17. Nb2 Kb3 18. Nd3 Kc4 19. Nc1 Kd4 20. Nb3+ Kc4 21.
Kc2 Kb4 22. Nd2 Ka4 23. Kc3 Ka3 24. Nb3 Ka4 25. Nc1 Ka3 26. Kc2 Ka4 27. Na2 Ka3
28. Nc3 Kb4 29. Nb1 Kc4 30. Na3+ Kb4 31. Kb2 Ka4 32. Nc2 Kb5 33. Kb3 Kc5 34.
Kc3 Kb5 35. Kd4 Ka5 36. Kc5 Ka4 37. Kc4 Ka5 38. Nd4 Ka6 39. Kc5 Ka5 40. Nb5 Ka4
41. Kc4 Ka5 42. Nc3 Kb6 43. Kd5 Ka6 44. Kc6 Ka5 45. Kc5 Ka6 46. Nd5 Ka5 47. Ne7
Ka4 48. Kc4 Ka3 49. Kc3 Ka2 50. Nxg8 Kb1 51. Kd2 Kb2 52. Ne7 Kb3 53. Nd5 Kc4
54. Nc3 Kb4 55. Nd1 Kc4 56. Nb2+ Kd4 57. Nd3 Kc4 58. Nc1 Kd4 59. Nb3+ Kc4 60.
Kc2 Kb4 61. Nd2 Ka4 62. Kc3 Ka3 63. Nb3 Ka4 64. Nc1 Ka3 65. Kc2 Ka4 66. Na2 Ka3
67. Nc3 Kb4 68. Nb1 Kc4 69. Na3+ Kb4 70. Kb2 Ka4 71. Nc2 Kb5 72. Kb3 Kc5 73.
Kc3 Kb5 74. Kd4 Ka5 75. Kc5 Ka4 76. Kc4 Ka5 77. Nd4 Ka6 78. Kc5 Ka5 79. Nb5 Ka4
80. Kc4 Ka5 81. Nc3 Kb6 82. Kd5 Ka6 83. Kc6 Ka5 84. Kc5 Ka6 85. Nd5 Ka5 86. Nb6
Ka6 87. Nc4 Kb7 88. Kd6 Ka6 89. Kc6 Ka7 90. Nd6 Ka6 91. Nb7 Ka7 92. Nc5 Kb8 93.
Kd7 Ka7 94. Ke7 Kb6 95. Ne4 Kb5 96. Kf8 Kc4 97. Kg8 Kd3 98. Kxh7 Ke2 99. Kxh8
Kf1 100. Nd6 Kxg2 101. Nxf7 Kxf3 102. fxg6 1-0

[/pgn]
Oh, I ignored something like 43...Kb7! 44.Kc5 Kc7 45.Nd5+ Kd7 46.Nb4 Kc7 47.Nc6 Kd7 48.Kd5 Ke8 49.Kd6 Kf8 50.Ne7 Ke8 . The result remains unclear.