Leela vs Stockfish nnue style

[Magnum]

vs M2 Max & M1 Max
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeuhxnWDl0

PERFORMANCE TESTED!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb2VZWLGVAM

Review, Test and Comparisons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEX9Gqjzl74

vs. the Best PC laptops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7QDC5j6KM0

for Programming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCNYGpN-q4M

Chip Analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bf3ORrE5hQ

[h1a8]

vs M2 Max & M1 Max
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeuhxnWDl0

PERFORMANCE TESTED!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb2VZWLGVAM

Review, Test and Comparisons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEX9Gqjzl74

vs. the Best PC laptops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7QDC5j6KM0

for Programming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCNYGpN-q4M

Chip Analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bf3ORrE5hQ

I wonder how this would translate into stockfish benchmarks? How many nps does it get with stockfish 16 I wonder?

[h1a8]

I got the fastest AMD laptop processor with a Invidia 4800 GPU and fired up Lc0 today for the first time. I have to say the laptop got REALLY hot, more than I had expected...and the CPU as well. Which is odd given that I can run Stockfish on 30 threads (don't think I've ever tried 32) and it does not seem to get anywhere near as hot. Of course, I haven't tampered with any of the settings and only tried Lc0 for a bit earlier today. Anyway, those laptop GPU's are weakened sisters compared to desktop GPU's, where you can easily cool them.

You only say you "want it for chess" and don't say 'how' you would use it for chess...or did I miss that somewhere?

1. I'm going to analyze some openings and build an opening repetoire with some systems (like hippo, London, etc)
2. I'm going to analyze my games and games of some fide masters.

[Magnum]

vs M2 Max & M1 Max
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeuhxnWDl0

PERFORMANCE TESTED!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb2VZWLGVAM

Review, Test and Comparisons
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEX9Gqjzl74

vs. the Best PC laptops
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7QDC5j6KM0

for Programming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCNYGpN-q4M

Chip Analysis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bf3ORrE5hQ

I wonder how this would translate into stockfish benchmarks? How many nps does it get with stockfish 16 I wonder?

http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtop ... 31#p951231
64544 - ((30% no ARMv9) 19363) = 45181 kn/s
45.192.261 AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX @4.0Ghz DDR5 5200 CL42 32threads avx512 Ipmanchess W11

M4 MAX will have ARMv9.5 or at least 9.4. Worst case will be 9.2.
A lot of speed improvements are possible on ARM.

[Ciekce]

Yes, that rtx 4090 is what I got in my laptop, pretty much the top of the line GPU.

a laptop 4090 is *significantly* less powerful than a desktop 4090 - it's between a desktop 4070 and 4070 Ti in performance (roughly a 3080)

[wickedpotus]

http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtop ... 31#p951231
64544 - ((30% no ARMv9) 19363) = 45181 kn/s
45.192.261 AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX @4.0Ghz DDR5 5200 CL42 32threads avx512 Ipmanchess W11

M4 MAX will have ARMv9.5 or at least 9.4. Worst case will be 9.2.
A lot of speed improvements are possible on ARM.

I am not sure why you are trying to (dishonestly) talk-up Apple HW here?

It’s crucial to examine the facts:

Modern gaming laptops priced over $1500, equipped with Nvidia GPUs, consistently outperform even the highest-end Macs (M3/M2/M1), which can cost up to $8000, on GPU-bound Chess-engines.

Consider the ipman benchmark results for AMD Ryzen and Apple M CPUs:

AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX @4.0Ghz DDR5 5200 CL42 achieves a score of 79,168,663.
Apple M1 Max @3.23Ghz DDR5 6400 achieves a score of 12,556,848.
Apple M2 @3.23Ghz achieves a score of 7,420,726.

The AMD Ryzen 32-thread score is nearly double that of the Apple M1 Max, and up to 10 times that of the Apple M2.

Furthermore, the price-performance ratio of Apple laptops is worth noting. The M3 Max Pro, priced between $4000 and $7500, is approximately twice as fast as a 10-core M1 Max. Even without official benchmarks, it’s reasonable to estimate a score of around 25knps for the latest MacBook. This suggests that a modern Ryzen 9 gaming laptop could be about three times faster than Apple's top-end, often at a lower price point. These laptops also typically include a GPU better suited for running LC0.

[Ciekce]

I am not sure why you are trying to (dishonestly) talk-up Apple HW here?

check their post history, it's literally all dishonest apple shilling

not worth trying to interact with, you will not get a productive discussion

[h1a8]

http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtop ... 31#p951231
64544 - ((30% no ARMv9) 19363) = 45181 kn/s
45.192.261 AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX @4.0Ghz DDR5 5200 CL42 32threads avx512 Ipmanchess W11

M4 MAX will have ARMv9.5 or at least 9.4. Worst case will be 9.2.
A lot of speed improvements are possible on ARM.

I am not sure why you are trying to (dishonestly) talk-up Apple HW here?

It’s crucial to examine the facts:

Modern gaming laptops priced over $1500, equipped with Nvidia GPUs, consistently outperform even the highest-end Macs (M3/M2/M1), which can cost up to $8000, on GPU-bound Chess-engines.

Consider the ipman benchmark results for AMD Ryzen and Apple M CPUs:

AMD Ryzen 9 7945HX @4.0Ghz DDR5 5200 CL42 achieves a score of 79,168,663.
Apple M1 Max @3.23Ghz DDR5 6400 achieves a score of 12,556,848.
Apple M2 @3.23Ghz achieves a score of 7,420,726.

The AMD Ryzen 32-thread score is nearly double that of the Apple M1 Max, and up to 10 times that of the Apple M2.

Furthermore, the price-performance ratio of Apple laptops is worth noting. The M3 Max Pro, priced between $4000 and $7500, is approximately twice as fast as a 10-core M1 Max. Even without official benchmarks, it’s reasonable to estimate a score of around 25knps for the latest MacBook. This suggests that a modern Ryzen 9 gaming laptop could be about three times faster than Apple's top-end, often at a lower price point. These laptops also typically include a GPU better suited for running LC0.

The lowest I seen was about 45knps for the ryzen 9 7950x
And about 53knps for ryzen 9 7945x

The m3 max chip scores extremely well on geekbench 6.
Therefore it should correlate stockfish bench scores of comparable to ryzen chips.
So it's definitely not the hardware.

Doing further research I found that decreasing hash to 512mb (down from 1gb) drastically improves knps. For example, this increases the m1 chip (not the max) to about 16knps.
Just scale the m3 max from there

[CornfedForever]

I got the fastest AMD laptop processor with a Invidia 4800 GPU and fired up Lc0 today for the first time. I have to say the laptop got REALLY hot, more than I had expected...and the CPU as well. Which is odd given that I can run Stockfish on 30 threads (don't think I've ever tried 32) and it does not seem to get anywhere near as hot. Of course, I haven't tampered with any of the settings and only tried Lc0 for a bit earlier today. Anyway, those laptop GPU's are weakened sisters compared to desktop GPU's, where you can easily cool them.

You only say you "want it for chess" and don't say 'how' you would use it for chess...or did I miss that somewhere?

1. I'm going to analyze some openings and build an opening repetoire with some systems (like hippo, London, etc)
2. I'm going to analyze my games and games of some fide masters.

Arguable it matters what your own chess strength is (kind of important for 'understanding' the output, if you are to use your own brain)....nor the applications you would be using to build a repertoire. I mostly handle mine in Chessbase, giving up on things like Aquarium long ago.

But from what you have said...I really don't think it matters much what you get. Beyond a certain point, it's just Vanity. I only spent $3500 on my laptop as a birthday present to myself.

Someone else mentioned the same configuration I have 7945HX with 64 GB RAM and I can tell youthat in multi-threated performance for high NPS, it rocks like he indicated - better than any intel laptop chip.

[wickedpotus]

The lowest I seen was about 45knps for the ryzen 9 7950x
And about 53knps for ryzen 9 7945x

The m3 max chip scores extremely well on geekbench 6.
Therefore it should correlate stockfish bench scores of comparable to ryzen chips.
So it's definitely not the hardware.

Doing further research I found that decreasing hash to 512mb (down from 1gb) drastically improves knps. For example, this increases the m1 chip (not the max) to about 16knps.
Just scale the m3 max from there

All ARM processors score better on Geekbench than they do on loads like Cinebench, Torch, Stockfish, LC0, etc. Geekbench is an unsuccessful attempt to compare different CPU architectures, which it fails miserably at.

All benchmarks (including Apple’s own) show that the multithreaded performance per core is only 10-15% faster than M2/M1. So there is no magic there, regardless of how many fanboys would like it to be. If you want to run chess programs, the Apple ARMs will neither give you top performance nor decent value for money