Is Lichess Elo system OK?

[Eduard]

Is Lichess Elo system OK?

I've been playing Lichess for years. The Elo system is good. Currently I only have around 2150 Elo, I used to have more points, but I'm getting older and unfortunately my performance is getting weaker.

It's not the same with those who play with computers (bots). One of the computer players (ProteusSF, who I don't like by the way) has set himself the goal of being number 1 in computer chess on Lichess. To achieve this goal, he played thousands of games against weaker opponents and won all of them. He is currently at 3200 Elo in Bullet on Lichess. No computer account has more points. You have to know the following: if you have 3100 Elo and want to improve by 100 points, you have to win around 500 games in a row against 2500 Elo. He is not allowed to draw a game(and no server crashes). Otherwise he has to start all over again. He followed all the rules and reached his goal: 3200 Elo and is number 1!

Another player didn't like it. He maintains a leaderboard in all computer disciplines. He wrote a script that automatically adds all bot accounts to his list, including bots that don't want to be in this private list (like me). The player has developed his own rules that are not from Lichess. One of these rules is: If you play too many games against weak opponents, you are farming and will be “banned” from the list. There is no exact definition of farming (for example exact number of games). The leaderboard developer decides as he likes. The player ProteusSF has been banned. The list suggests to unsuspecting readers that this list is a Lichess list. The player ProteusSF did not break any Lichess rules.

I recently created a new Lichess Bot account. Then I played 73 bullet games with it, starting with 2000 Elo. I won 71 of the 73 games. My Elo is now 3102 in the Bullet. The developer of the leaderboards doesn't like this because in just a few hours I achieved 200 Elo more than the leaderboard developer himself has. He looked at my games and noticed the following:

-----------------------------------------------
Out of 73 bullet games you played, you won 71:

- 30 of them, against @SaxtonEngine, which has 600 elo less than your BOT
- 20 of them, against @TuksuBot, which also has 600-650 elo less than your BOT
- 17 of them, against @pawn_git, which also has 550-600 elo less than your BOT
- 3 of them, against @blundar_bot, which is probably fine, since the elo difference is not too big (200-250 elo diff) but is not a strong BOT either
------------------------------------------------

Based on only 73 games (starting at 2000 Elo), he claims that my opponents were about 600 Elo weaker. I didn't have +600 Elo in all games but at the end of the game series. In addition, the rating up to game 72 was with a "?" provided, which means that my Elo is not yet stable.

I have now been banned from the Lederboard list. I didn't sign up for this list, so how can I be banned? After only 73 games I am unofficially treated as a cheater even though I haven't broken any rules.

Can someone, in the name of Lichess, presume to do this to someone who has not broken any Lichess rules? Isn't that discrimination? I plan to report it to Lichess because I don't like being called a cheater as long as I play chess according to the rules.

[CornfedForever]

Their ratings are FAR too high.

[Dariusz]

On lichess not such oversights have passed and are passing.
A friend of mine, who is a strong chess player, right after registering his account on lichess once won a dozen games in a row - I witnessed it. What astonishment he once had when, trying to log in a few days later, he read that his account had been suspended due to a violation of the rules. More, when he created a new account on the same computer (same IP and mac address), then after some time his account was suspended again.

I agree that on lichess the rankings of human players are inflated. I play at a level of about 2000-2100, and I once did over 2400 there.
I don't play on lichess anymore.

Examples can be multiplied; if I remember correctly, there are several threads on talkchess about lichess.
All in all, one doesn't know whether to laugh or cry

[Eduard]

My final statement:
https://solistachess.jimdosite.com/solista-news/

19. Dec 2023: The well-known computer gamer IbaiBuR keeps a leader board ranking of bots on lichess. He wrote a script that automatically puts all Lichess bots in his private rating list. He invented his own rules for this list. Anyone who doesn't follow these rules will be banished. I don't want to be included in this list because it doesn't interest me. Nevertheless, he registered me. Because I didn't follow his rules, I've now been banned from this list --> HERE. This list has nothing to do with Lichess rules. I didn't break any rules. Anyone who sees this list will of course believe that it comes from Lichess, which is not the case. Nevertheless, IbaiBuR treats me as a cheater. One reason: I created a new account and won --> 71 games (haha) in a row and drew three times. The IbaiBuR didn't like that because my opponents were too weak in his eyes! Anyone who doesn't play the way IbaiBuR wants will be banned! He is welcome to do whatever he wants with his lists, but if his lists suggest that they are official Lichess rankings, then that is defamation of players who have not broken any rules and specific wishes from IbaiBuR have not been followed.

Have a nice day.

[dkappe]

If I recall, lichess doesn’t use Elo but uses Glicko instead. Glicko was designed to handle players who hadn’t played in a while and might have a somewhat inaccurate rating.

[Eduard]

On PlayChess there are separate ratings for computers and humans, but not on Lichess. The best human bullet player on lichess currently has a rating of 3267 points. My best engine only has 3100 points. We're welcome to test whether my number is too high, I'm ready to play against the King with 3267 Elo! I don't think my engine will lose the duel! Nevertheless, there are people like IbaiBuR who are bothered by my rating. Crazy sorry.

[Guenther]

1. This has nothing to do with Lichess, Lichess itself only gives rankings for Humans, the lists you refer to are private lists, anyone can make such lists using the Lichess api(s)
2. You seem not to be able to realize that even this private list has two variations, one with those private selfmade
extra restrictions and an unrestricted one...
3. I couldn't care less for any 'bot leaderboards' ;) and Lichess was made for Human play initially

https://github.com/TheYoBots/libot-lb/t ... eaderboard

[Eduard]

You do not understand. I'm not complaining about the list, everyone can do whatever they want. The list suggests to the unsuspecting reader that it is a list by Lichess:

https://lichess.org/team/banned-of-leaderboard-of-bots



The list is on Lichess, and anyone who clicks on the link will see that there is a list (with the Lichess logo) where players are banned. That's not nice, sorry!

[chessica]

wrong forum!

[Guenther]

You do not understand. I'm not complaining about the list, everyone can do whatever they want. The list suggests to the unsuspecting reader that it is a list by Lichess:

https://lichess.org/team/banned-of-leaderboard-of-bots



The list is on Lichess, and anyone who clicks on the link will see that there is a list (with the Lichess logo) where players are banned. That's not nice, sorry!

No you don't understand, sigh... this is just a link from one of bazillions of 'teams' created by whoever.