This GM is Wrong, a Rook and 2 pawn is NOT a Draw

Chessqueen · Post by **Chessqueen** » Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:24 am

GM Naroditsky according to the video is Wrong ,if you replace the Knight with a Rook it is still a Win for Black NOT a Draw https://youtu.be/2_-kWmvIZVE?si=ouZruiYyyE4I0GNI

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"] [Date "2024.01.18"] [Round "?"] [White "Caissa-1.16-x64-avx2-bmi2"] [Black "Caissa-1.16-x64-avx2-bmi2"] [Result "*"] [BlackElo "2000"] [Time "00:20:16"] [WhiteElo "3500"] [TimeControl "300+3"] [SetUp "1"] [FEN "8/8/8/5kr1/5p1p/8/5NK1/8 w - - 0 1"] [Termination "unterminated"] [PlyCount "1"] [WhiteType "human"] [BlackType "human"] 1. Kh2 {(Kg2-h2 Rg5-g3 Nf2-d1 Rg3-d3 Nd1-f2 Rd3-d2 Kh2-g1 Rd2xf2 Kg1xf2 Kf5-g4 Kf2-f1 h4-h3 Kf1-f2 f4-f3 Kf2-g1 Kg4-f4 Kg1-f1 Kf4-e3 Kf1-e1 f3-f2+) -M15/34 6} *[/pgn]

BrendanJNorman · Post by **BrendanJNorman** » Thu Jan 18, 2024 3:11 pm

Chessqueen wrote: ↑Thu Jan 18, 2024 7:24 am GM Naroditsky according to the video is Wrong ,if you replace the Knight with a Rook it is still a Win for Black NOT a Draw https://youtu.be/2_-kWmvIZVE?si=ouZruiYyyE4I0GNI

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"] [Date "2024.01.18"] [Round "?"] [White "Caissa-1.16-x64-avx2-bmi2"] [Black "Caissa-1.16-x64-avx2-bmi2"] [Result "*"] [BlackElo "2000"] [Time "00:20:16"] [WhiteElo "3500"] [TimeControl "300+3"] [SetUp "1"] [FEN "8/8/8/5kr1/5p1p/8/5NK1/8 w - - 0 1"] [Termination "unterminated"] [PlyCount "1"] [WhiteType "human"] [BlackType "human"] 1. Kh2 {(Kg2-h2 Rg5-g3 Nf2-d1 Rg3-d3 Nd1-f2 Rd3-d2 Kh2-g1 Rd2xf2 Kg1xf2 Kf5-g4 Kf2-f1 h4-h3 Kf1-f2 f4-f3 Kf2-g1 Kg4-f4 Kg1-f1 Kf4-e3 Kf1-e1 f3-f2+) -M15/34 6} *[/pgn]

Who cares? It is well known by competent players that a LOT of rook endings with f and h pawns are drawn.

The GM probably speculated that this was one of them and was mistaken.

Big deal. Does this make you feel big with your 1200 rating and 7 man tablebases by your side?

(P.S here's an example just by moving the pieces around a little, that is a dead draw. There are many such examples.)

[pgn][Variant "From Position"] [FEN "3R4/8/8/6rk/5p1p/7K/8/8 w - - 0 1"] [/pgn]

Chessqueen · Post by **Chessqueen** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:38 am

Norman you think that you are big deal with a 2100 or 2200 rating and with that you believe that you are so much better than I am. But you are just talking big believing that you are something special, chess is NOT everything, and you are nothing but an arrogant, that simply knows how to move your pieces, make plan , know tactics a little better plus make less blunder that is all. Besides chess, your level of education is NOT so significant.

BrendanJNorman · Post by **BrendanJNorman** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:58 am

Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:38 am Norman you think that you are big deal with a 2100 or 2200 rating and with that you believe that you are so much better than I am. But you are just talking big believing that you are something special, chess is NOT everything, and you are nothing but an arrogant, that simply knows how to move your pieces, make plan , know tactics a little better plus make less blunder that is all. Besides chess, your level of education is NOT so significant.

No. Nowhere is the impression given that I think I am a big deal.

I'm fully aware of my limitations as a chessplayer.

Unfortunately, you are not, which is why you feel qualified to criticize an offhand comment (by a top Grandmaster) in this very thread.

Do you understand the difference?

Ajedrecista · Post by **Ajedrecista** » Sat Jan 20, 2024 1:32 pm

Hello:

It is true that one can not generalize: most practical R+f+h vs R endgames are drawn, but this fact can not exclude that there are some positions that are not drawn (open question: how many are drawn and how many are not drawn?); this reasoning works either way: if there are some R+f+h vs R endgames that are not drawn, one can not conclude that all of them are not drawn and easy to win OTB for the stronger side, even more when 6-piece DTM EGTB already exist and we know exact answers. This kind of endgame is really challenging for the defending side and has been a matter of interest for ages, no later than the 1940s according to post #2 of this chess.com thread.

The same can be said about other endgames, openings... who said that bishop endgames are dull and boring? I casually came across one excellent video of an endgame between Carlsen and Firouzja played in 2021 while searching about Gligoric ½—½ Smyslov (1947) as an example of R+f+h vs R endgame that seems to be in the book mentioned at that chess.com thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfvRiAjA7ls
[d]8/5pp1/p7/Pp1bk1P1/1P6/4K2P/8/3B4 w - - 1 33

This position is a draw, but either side can blunder in a very subtle way depending on the variations. There are zugzwangs all over the place! The beauty of chess strikes once again.

I think that bishop endgames are usually underrated, often being considered easier than they are.

Regards from Spain.

Ajedrecista.

Chessqueen · Post by **Chessqueen** » Sun Jan 21, 2024 3:30 am

BrendanJNorman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:58 am
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:38 am Norman you think that you are big deal with a 2100 or 2200 rating and with that you believe that you are so much better than I am. But you are just talking big believing that you are something special, chess is NOT everything, and you are nothing but an arrogant, that simply knows how to move your pieces, make plan , know tactics a little better plus make less blunder that is all. Besides chess, your level of education is NOT so significant.

No. Nowhere is the impression given that I think I am a big deal.

I'm fully aware of my limitations as a chessplayer.

Unfortunately, you are not, which is why you feel qualified to criticize an offhand comment (by a top Grandmaster) in this very thread.

Do you understand the difference?

The difference is that you believe that GM are always correct, he did meant to say that if you replace the Knight with a Rook on the same position that it would be a Draw. And to answer your remark I never like to use endgame ETGB, these are just engine without using any EGTB. And to be a 2200 rated player does NOT make you more qualify to criticize a simple endgame, and if you are NOT aware of it, most of the difference between players of different rating is due to the Middlegame stage, NOT a simple endgame position. You are simply arrogant because you have reached 2200 in rating, but in your education you are NOT even close to what I have accomplished, and the degrees that I have from different Universities

Chessqueen · Post by **Chessqueen** » Mon Jan 22, 2024 3:54 am

BrendanJNorman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:58 am
Chessqueen wrote: ↑Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:38 am Norman you think that you are big deal with a 2100 or 2200 rating and with that you believe that you are so much better than I am. But you are just talking big believing that you are something special, chess is NOT everything, and you are nothing but an arrogant, that simply knows how to move your pieces, make plan , know tactics a little better plus make less blunder that is all. Besides chess, your level of education is NOT so significant.

No. Nowhere is the impression given that I think I am a big deal.

I'm fully aware of my limitations as a chessplayer.

Unfortunately, you are not, which is why you feel qualified to criticize an offhand comment (by a top Grandmaster) in this very thread.

Do you understand the difference?

GM Naroditsky according to the video is correct that is you replace the White Knight with a Rook it will be a draw, and by the way you do NOT need EGTB even a 1795 rated engine like C-Drill-800 can draw

https://youtu.be/2_-kWmvIZVE?si=ouZruiYyyE4I0GNI

[pgn][Event "Computer chess game"] [Site "DESKTOP-4QNC0GS"] [Date "2024.01.21"] [Round "?"] [White "CDrill_1800_Build_4"] [Black "Stockfish-windows-x86-64-avx2x"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [BlackElo "3550"] [Time "20:51:30"] [WhiteElo "1795"] [TimeControl "180+2"] [SetUp "1"] [FEN "8/8/8/5kn1/5p1p/8/5RK1/8 b - - 0 1"] [Termination "normal"] [PlyCount "13"] [WhiteType "program"] [BlackType "program"] 1. ... Kg4 {(Kf5-g4 Rf2-a2 h4-h3+ Kg2-g1 Kg4-g3 Ra2-g2+ h3xg2) 0.00/69 6} 2. Kh2 {(Kg2-h2 h4-h3 Rf2-f1 Ng5-f3+ Kh2-h1 Kg4-g3 Rf1-f2 Nf3-e5 Rf2-f1 f4-f3 Rf1-g1+ Kg3-f4 Rg1-g7) -2.26/11 18} Nf3+ {(Ng5-f3+ Kh2-h1 h4-h3 Rf2-f1 Kg4-g3 Rf1-a1 Nf3-g5 Ra1-g1+ Kg3-h4 Rg1-f1 f4-f3 Rf1xf3 Ng5xf3) 0.00/53 2} 3. Kh1 {(Kh2-h1 h4-h3 Rf2-e2 Nf3-g5 Re2-e1 f4-f3 Re1-g1+ Kg4-f5 Rg1-f1 Kf5-f4 Kh1-h2 Kf4-g4 Rf1-g1+ Kg4-h5 Kh2-h1) -2.29/13 16} h3 {(h4-h3 Rf2-f1 Kg4-g3 Rf1-b1 Nf3-g5 Rb1-g1+ Kg3-h4 Rg1-f1 f4-f3 Rf1xf3 Ng5xf3) 0.00/57 3} 4. Re2 {(Rf2-e2 Nf3-g5 Re2-e1 f4-f3 Re1-g1+ Kg4-f5 Rg1-f1 Kf5-f4 Kh1-h2 Kf4-g4 Rf1-g1+ Kg4-h5 Kh2-h1) -2.29/11 14} Ng5 {(Nf3-g5 Re2-e1 f4-f3 Re1-g1+ Kg4-f4 Rg1-f1 Kf4-g3 Rf1-g1+ Kg3-f4) 0.00/56 3} 5. Kh2 {(Kh1-h2 Kg4-h4 Re2-e8 Ng5-f3+ Kh2-h1 Kh4-g3 Re8-g8+ Kg3-f2 Rg8-g4 Nf3-e5 Rg4xf4+ Ne5-f3 Rf4-f8 Kf2-e2) -0.26/11 13} Nf3+ {(Ng5-f3+ Kh2-h1 Kg4-g3 Re2-e3 f4xe3) 0.00/73 3} 6. Kh1 {(Kh2-h1) -0.15/3} Kg3 {(Kg4-g3 Re2-e3 f4xe3) 0.00/72 3} 7. Re3 {(Re2-e3 Kg3-g4 Re3-e2) -0.15/11 12} fxe3 {(f4xe3) 0.00/118 3 Stalemate} 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

This GM is Wrong, a Rook and 2 pawn is NOT a Draw

This GM is Wrong, a Rook and 2 pawn is NOT a Draw

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Re: This GM is Wrong, a Rook and 2 pawn is NOT a Draw

Re: This GM is Wrong, a Rook and 2 pawn is NOT a Draw