Stockfish 070324 a Disaster

[RubiChess]

The SF developers have now blocked me on Discord in the sf-dev thread. Reason: I am unwanted.

Just a human reaction to someone who orders a meal in a restaurant (which he gets for free!), tells the waiter that the meal is a disaster, adds some salt to it and tells people what a great cook he is.

[Joerg Oster]

No. He got banned because they didn't like what he was saying.
I don't call this moderation...

it's pretty simple why he was blocked from that channel, and it's not some conspiracy theory

can you people stop crying about this kind of thing for 10 seconds my *god*

if you have an actual idea on how to improve stockfish, then it's of course welcome. posting cherrypicked test positions and whining about "stockfimsh bad at solve posimtion (((" is just useless spam in a channel intended for actual development topics

(Simply ignoring his post was a valid option, too!)
Yet blocking or even banning someone should always be the last option if everything else fails.
Don't you agree?

[Dann Corbit]

I think banning someone because they have an unpopular opinion is a terrible mistake.
It's OK to think some approach is the wrong approach.
It's OK to think your idea is better, because that's an opinion.
Viewpoints are never wrong. A viewpoint is what you or I or someone else values as important.
I have always liked the play of the CS-Tal engine. Not because it was the strongest engine, since it wasn't.
But it sure was fun to watch those pirates pouring over the wall with swords held sideways in their mouths.
It kind of fit Chris's aggressive personality too.
Personally, I like Leptir, it is a very good engine for solving problem sets.
I also like Stockfish, which is a good engine for game play.
It's not just good at fast time control either, or it would not perform well on TCEC, where the time control is very long in terms of engine power multiplied by threads by time. Probably the strongest current contest as far as computer power.

It is important for all participants in a thread to be civil to each other and show respect. And even if we are civil and respectful, there is always room for improvement.

The reason this forum was created was to create an environment where computer chess enthusiasts could gather and discuss chess in a safe and friendly environment. I think that sometimes we lose sight of that.

[Joerg Oster]

I think banning someone because they have an unpopular opinion is a terrible mistake.
It's OK to think some approach is the wrong approach.
It's OK to think your idea is better, because that's an opinion.
Viewpoints are never wrong. A viewpoint is what you or I or someone else values as important.
I have always liked the play of the CS-Tal engine. Not because it was the strongest engine, since it wasn't.
But it sure was fun to watch those pirates pouring over the wall with swords held sideways in their mouths.
It kind of fit Chris's aggressive personality too.
Personally, I like Leptir, it is a very good engine for solving problem sets.
I also like Stockfish, which is a good engine for game play.
It's not just good at fast time control either, or it would not perform well on TCEC, where the time control is very long in terms of engine power multiplied by threads by time. Probably the strongest current contest as far as computer power.

It is important for all participants in a thread to be civil to each other and show respect. And even if we are civil and respectful, there is always room for improvement.

The reason this forum was created was to create an environment where computer chess enthusiasts could gather and discuss chess in a safe and friendly environment. I think that sometimes we lose sight of that.

Exactly, Dann.

And whatever one might think about those 'cloners', everyone deserves to be treated in a respectful and civilized manner.
Something some/many people over there at SF Discord simply seem to have forgotten ...

I used to be part of the Stockfish project since 2012, iirc.
Only some minor contributions compared to others, of course.
But nowadays this feels like nothing to be proud of, unfortunately ...

[RubiChess]

Remember that we are talking about a guy who was banned (or left after dispute) from a lot of computer chess forums: Outskirts, Banksia, CCC, ... probably more.
To deserve respect you need to be respectful yourself.

[Dann Corbit]

Remember that we are talking about a guy who was banned (or left after dispute) from a lot of computer chess forums: Outskirts, Banksia, CCC, ... probably more.
To deserve respect you need to be respectful yourself.

I disagree. We should always be respectful. Then, a civilized audience will view the disrespectful person as in the wrong.
There was a certain philosopher of whom it was said, "When he was being insulted, he did not insult in return."
Which is to say that a gentleman should be a gentleman at all times.
Someone who resorts to name calling has run out of logical arguments and resorted to ad-holmium attacks.
Quite frankly, that means ( to intelligent people ) that they have lost the debate.

If we start with a lack of civil behavior, we should not expect civil behavior in return.
There are, as they say, "people who rub us the wrong way" and any house cat can tell you that is unpleasant.
So my suggestion is to be gracious in conversation. If a charter principle is broken, then the post can be removed.
If repeated charter violations occur, then the person can be banned.
But if there are no clear violations, it is best to ignore or use a killfile (I do not know if this forum has a killfile).
This forum has wandered from that standard more and more as time as passed, and I think it is detrimental.

[Eduard]

How should I improve this code and give a suggestion?

https://github.com/official-stockfish/S ... ec0242244f

All I know is that it was a disaster and produced the worst stockfish I've seen in a long time.

I initially just posted a link to Talkchess. No longer! But the answers were contemptuous, and what bothered me most was that these people didn't even read what I had to say. The first replies to my postings came after just 5 seconds, no one can read them that quickly. These people live in their own bubble, celebrate themselves, and everyone else is despised.

[RubiChess]

You started this thread at Friday 6pm. You posted the link in Discord at Saturday 0:08am.
So stating that people answering within 5 seconds aren't even reading what you write is just nonsense.
Even when they had years to learn how you "improve" this disastrous engine.

[Eduard]

What I wrote is true in many ways! When I posted the link I immediately saw that someone wrote an answer (you can see when someone writes an answer in the Discord app). Maybe he finished the text a little later, but he immediately wrote back.
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If you are not satisfied with Stockfish, take this:

Stockfish developers only talk to each other with formulas and the bullet ratings achieved from them. I'm not a programmer, and I'm a practitioner. A good code for analysis is the CorChess code by I. Ivec. The larger network with dimension 3072 is also better for long analyses. I created a special engine based on a test code for the large network from March 1, 2024. This engine is available for download here (avx2, avx512, bmi2, sse41, source code): SF-Cor 1Mar24-3072 https://pixeldrain.com/u/KWpaggeq

[dkappe]

Eduard,

You didn’t get banned for your opinions but because you kept spamming sf-dev with non-programming content. I just skip or block your messages when I read sf-dev, but for developers who want a clean record of programming discussions, having lots of chaff is very annoying (you’re not the only one spamming sf-dev).

Many other discords restrict technical channel posts to only those who have contributed to the project. Maybe the sf discord should do the same thing.