Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

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Carotino
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by Carotino »

In this Mod I tried to change some approaches in research and to insert some improvements used in subsequent versions of Berserk. The intention is to further develop the program from here.
I don't know, there are dozens of Stockfish clones out there and all of them are weaker than the original (obviously), I don't understand all the fuss.
Roberto
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Guenther
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by Guenther »

Carotino wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:54 pm In this Mod I tried to change some approaches in research and to insert some improvements used in subsequent versions of Berserk. The intention is to further develop the program from here.
I don't know, there are dozens of Stockfish clones out there and all of them are weaker than the original (obviously), I don't understand all the fuss.
Why should you? To understand it you first need to understand something...
https://rwbc-chess.de

trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/clone lovers/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...
Alexander Schmidt
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by Alexander Schmidt »

Carotino wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 9:42 pm It was not my intention to break the law. What do I need to do to make this Mod legal?
Its not just a legal question. First of all, don't claim others work to be your own.
Carotino wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 8:18 pm Tenax is a UCI chess engine written in C and started as a private hobby
No, it started as a clone of something else.

You are not a chess engine developer.

Go away, nobody is interested in what you do.
Uri Blass
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by Uri Blass »

From the rules of posting in the forum:

"Once a member gains access to the message board, he may read all messages and post new or response messages with the proviso that these new or response messages:

1. Are, within reason, on the topic of computer chess
2. Are not abusive in nature
3. Do not contain personal and/or libelous attacks on others
4. Are not flagrant commercial exhortations
5. Are not of questionable legal status."


The fact that the poster did wrong things does not allow other to insult him.

People can explain that the fuss is because he made the impression that the engine is his engine(He did not claim it directly and I do not see that he lied directly but it is the impression that people get based on his post) and because he did something against the rules by not releasing the changes that he did earlier but claiming that he should not understand because he can understand nothing or telling him to go away is a personal attack.

People are allowed to change code of berserk and release the change even if the new version is weaker and even if they do not understand the reason the new version is weaker.

I think that if somebody change the code of a free source code and make a weaker version and ask why the new version is weaker then it is clearly a legitimate question in the sub forum of programming and technical questions that people can reply or not reply.
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Graham Banks
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by Graham Banks »

Carotino wrote: Wed Apr 24, 2024 10:29 pm Uh, ok!
I'm not a professional, I think my edits are not very interesting. Anyway, here's the new link.

New link: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SL-7tO ... drive_link
Roberto - you are obviously an intelligent person.

Are any of the chess engines you've made original?
If so, why not try to develop your best one further and make it open source so that you can't be accused of cloning?
gbanksnz at gmail.com
bastiball
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by bastiball »

Any chances to implement FRC? :D :D
Basti Dangca
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Carotino
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by Carotino »

As I said before, I wanted to start from this engine to experiment with some ideas different from the original software (most of them are found in "search.c") and then continue with their development, without having to write an engine from scratch (I haven't time or desire to do it).
It's open source software, I don't see anything wrong with it. I admit the naivety of not having immediately declared the origin of the engine (mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!), but when I was asked for the source code I provided it immediately (in just a few seconds!) . The headers on the source code clearly indicate the origin of the software and the original author (Jay Honnold) which I cannot have changed in a few seconds.
I released the engine so that someone can test it and give me suggestions and/or criticisms, but it seems to me that I have arrived in a witch hunt climate.
Roberto
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Graham Banks
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by Graham Banks »

Carotino wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:28 am As I said before, I wanted to start from this engine to experiment with some ideas different from the original software (most of them are found in "search.c") and then continue with their development, without having to write an engine from scratch (I haven't time or desire to do it).
It's open source software, I don't see anything wrong with it. I admit the naivety of not having immediately declared the origin of the engine (mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!), but when I was asked for the source code I provided it immediately (in just a few seconds!) . The headers on the source code clearly indicate the origin of the software and the original author (Jay Honnold) which I cannot have changed in a few seconds.
I released the engine so that someone can test it and give me suggestions and/or criticisms, but it seems to me that I have arrived in a witch hunt climate.
By releasing the source code and giving acknowledgement to whom it's due, you've now done the right thing. :)
gbanksnz at gmail.com
BrendanJNorman
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by BrendanJNorman »

Carotino wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:28 am I released the engine so that someone can test it and give me suggestions and/or criticisms, but it seems to me that I have arrived in a witch hunt climate.
Normal here, you'll get used to it. :lol:

Also, most of it was due to not releasing the source with the engine.

People are super sensitive about that due to the flood of clones which happened around 2009 or so with Fruit, Rybka, Ipoolito and friends, and then later with Stockfish as well.

Don't take the aggression personally though, this is how these guys are, even when they're nice.

It's no big deal. Most of them are actually nice. :lol:
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Guenther
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Re: Tenax-NNUE 1.0 released

Post by Guenther »

BrendanJNorman wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 11:27 am
Carotino wrote: Thu Apr 25, 2024 8:28 am I released the engine so that someone can test it and give me suggestions and/or criticisms, but it seems to me that I have arrived in a witch hunt climate.
Normal here, you'll get used to it. :lol:

Also, most of it was due to not releasing the source with the engine.

People are super sensitive about that due to the flood of clones which happened around 2009 or so with Fruit, Rybka, Ipoolito and friends, and then later with Stockfish as well.

Don't take the aggression personally though, this is how these guys are, even when they're nice.

It's no big deal. Most of them are actually nice. :lol:
No need for babysitting... ;) He is just pretending and doesn't care (nor learn a better behaviour).

He does this since 15 years at least and _is used_ to this already and well deserves it.

search.php?keywords=carotino
search.php?keywords=munter

just check a few of those and you'll find the same over and over - first 'releasing' something, then saying he did this and that
and a bit later it is recognized that the changes were below 1% of something grabbed/stolen, while putting his 'name' on it - and then
- *I did not know I did something wrong* or *I hope I did not do something wrong*, lol.
So the learning curve in this regard is zero.

Even nearly identical sentences from already 14 years ago can be found ;)
https://rwbc-chess.de

trollwatch:
Talkchess nowadays is a joke - it is full of trolls/idiots/clone lovers/people stuck in the pleistocene > 80% of the posts fall into this category...