Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

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Father
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Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 9:41 pm
Father wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 8:49 pm
Uri Blass wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2024 4:06 pm To summerize the final point is that you probably lose something near 100 elo from the unfair rating list.
You also lost something near 50 elo from playing with black in big part of your games instead of playing with white that is better for rating.

It seems that with fair rating list and wise choice to play only white you could get probably rating of 2450-2500 that is not enough for first place in the list.

Earlier I made a mistake when I did not consider that you get 1/4 out of 1/2 instead of 1/4 out of 1 but it did not change a lot.

More details:
I see that from 20.11.2024 you got 123 draws with white out of 411 games and 41 draws out of 540 games with black.
some of them were 1+1 but most of them are 1+0.
It seems that some bug in the search prevent me to count the number of 1+0 games and I did not like to count manually.

LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+0 (Reference) 2795.2

123 divided by 822 possible half points is 0.1496...
Assuming you get 15% against the bot then you should be 296 elo weaker that means rating of 2499.2
with the unfair calculation you get 123/4 points out of possible 123/2+(411-123) points or 123/(246+288*4)=0.0879 and it means something like 390 elo weaker than the bot and it means performance near 2405.2.

LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+0 (Reference) 2895.2
41 draws out of 540 is 41/1080 that is 0.03796
It means performance of more than 500 elo weaker than your opponent so with fair rating list you may get something like rating of 2390 instead of something near 2300 that you get with 41/4 out of 41/2+499 that is 41/(82+1996)=0.01973...
Uri. Thank you very much for your message, analysis and conclusions. For me it is very important to evaluate all this data, because it allows a double view in my mind: What was, what is and what could become. Knowing that I have launched myself into the bullring, without further predictions, it seems like a good result in this first approach to the breed bull (cow) LeelaQueenOdds. I would like to go back to bullfighting more, but I don't want to be attacked by the chubs. Having a reference of these is for me a good first point, but I would like more and better. I wonder: Applying it to everyone and equally in the top 10 table, would it put me closer or further away from leadership? The unknown Master and I, at what distance are we under the magnifying glass of general, impersonal and abstract norms, Fide? If I return, how many games and under what time controls should I play to earn more elo? Online parity is enough for me, or a good number of games, or having a good percentage, how many games should I play daily? Again Uri: Thank you. And to you Uri and the entire talchess group, I wish you a happy Thanksgiving.
I agree with Uri, if draws counting fully instead of half, your rating might be almost one hundred higher. Of course anyone else who plays for draws would also be higher, but I don't know if anyone else does so. More generally, anyone else who scores below 50% at their chosen time limit would also benefit from the normal rules. If you play a lot of games, it is the percentage you score (at your chosen time control and color) that matters for rating, it doesn't matter much whether you play a hundred games or a thousand games unless your percentage improves with more games. As to the best time control to get a good rating, for most people, who play to win rather than to draw, I think they should play at a TC where they can usually win, but not too easily or consistently. But if you only play to draw, that is a different situation, where you should pick the TC where you can usually draw, but not always of course. Maybe for you 3 + 0 would work well, it is your favorite (along with 1+0) time control, you should be able to get a lot of draws I imagine, especially when you play White. Note that there are now quite a few top players (2800 to 3100 bullet) playing many 1+0 games with the bot, so they are playing under similar conditions to you, also getting only half the draws rated in effect, so your rating relative to those players should be quite fair. But none of them has a huge number of games yet like you do. In case you didn't know, I am "Hissha" on the list, just one place above you now. I really like increment, so I've settled on 1+10" (which counts as blitz) for this, where I can usually win but sometimes lose or draw, it's not so easy. At least I don't lose on time now. It doesn't show who I am, but I use the same handle on chess.com, where it shows my name and title.
Thank you very much for the message Mr. Larry Kaufman. It makes me very happy to know that I am playing chess in the same environment as a Senior World Champion or GM. Knowing that I have been admitted to the same game scenario and against the same cybernetic opponent makes me so happy that it encourages me to continue. Your explanations, Mr. Larry Kaufman, and those of Uri, have encouraged me to return to the ring. I don't know what will become of me, but I'll try. Happy Thanksgiving I wish you, and "Hissha" in the combat of the hundred best, I wish you good winds and good seas."
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
lkaufman
Posts: 6076
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by lkaufman »

I did a lot of calculations on the accumulated data for all four handicaps since the last major upgrades, with some interesting findings, which I'll summarize here.
1. The one hundred elo White/Black differential seems to be pretty reasonable overall for all the handicaps. The rook odds data suggested a smaller figure near fifty, while the queen for knight data suggested a larger value near 200, but the samples (of strong enough players to be competitive) weren't that big, so using 100 for them seems at least reasonable. For queen odds the blitz data suggested a lower value than 100, but the bullet and rapid data (including of course Catecan and Uri in those categories) suggested a higher one, so I think we're fine with using 100.
2. The time adjustments used for queen odds seem pretty reasonable for the other handicaps as well, at least in the blitz range, where I focused.
3. The actual performance of the queen odds bot in blitz games (not rapid), adjusted for the specific time controls, was much higher than the listed reference ratings. In round numbers, the bot performs about 150 elo better than the reference ratings in blitz. This doesn't mean that the list should be raised by 150 elo, since, as has been discussed here, some players are not playing seriously, or playing too fast, or when sleepy, drunk or whatever, because they have nothing on the line other than the reputation of their online identity. Probably if the games were rated by LiChess directly people would play better and the performance would be lower, though I don't believe it would be 150 elo lower, maybe 100.
4. Here are the estimated Lichess blitz ratings of the eight bots + colors, in round numbers , at 5'3". For the popular 3'2" TC, add 100 for round numbers (technically 96). Since the knight odds esstimate is based on 2800 level opposition, it is subject to more uncertainty than the others.
Leela giving Knight odds as White: 3150. Knight and Move Odds (meaning Leela is Black) 3050.
Leela giving Rook odds as White: 3000. Rook and Move odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2900.
Leela Queen for Knight odds as White: 2900. Queen and Move for Knight odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2800.
Leela giving Queen odds as White: 2500. Queen and Move odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2400.

For a serious match with something at stake, I would expect performance about 100 below these numbers, but we don't really have much to go by yet on that score.
Komodo rules!
Father
Posts: 1588
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
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Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 7:44 am I did a lot of calculations on the accumulated data for all four handicaps since the last major upgrades, with some interesting findings, which I'll summarize here.
1. The one hundred elo White/Black differential seems to be pretty reasonable overall for all the handicaps. The rook odds data suggested a smaller figure near fifty, while the queen for knight data suggested a larger value near 200, but the samples (of strong enough players to be competitive) weren't that big, so using 100 for them seems at least reasonable. For queen odds the blitz data suggested a lower value than 100, but the bullet and rapid data (including of course Catecan and Uri in those categories) suggested a higher one, so I think we're fine with using 100.
2. The time adjustments used for queen odds seem pretty reasonable for the other handicaps as well, at least in the blitz range, where I focused.
3. The actual performance of the queen odds bot in blitz games (not rapid), adjusted for the specific time controls, was much higher than the listed reference ratings. In round numbers, the bot performs about 150 elo better than the reference ratings in blitz. This doesn't mean that the list should be raised by 150 elo, since, as has been discussed here, some players are not playing seriously, or playing too fast, or when sleepy, drunk or whatever, because they have nothing on the line other than the reputation of their online identity. Probably if the games were rated by LiChess directly people would play better and the performance would be lower, though I don't believe it would be 150 elo lower, maybe 100.
4. Here are the estimated Lichess blitz ratings of the eight bots + colors, in round numbers , at 5'3". For the popular 3'2" TC, add 100 for round numbers (technically 96). Since the knight odds esstimate is based on 2800 level opposition, it is subject to more uncertainty than the others.
Leela giving Knight odds as White: 3150. Knight and Move Odds (meaning Leela is Black) 3050.
Leela giving Rook odds as White: 3000. Rook and Move odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2900.
Leela Queen for Knight odds as White: 2900. Queen and Move for Knight odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2800.
Leela giving Queen odds as White: 2500. Queen and Move odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2400.

For a serious match with something at stake, I would expect performance about 100 below these numbers, but we don't really have much to go by yet on that score.
Good morning Mr. Larry Kaufman. You are taking the first steps in creating an environment and atmosphere of play between humans and machines, which could indicate and be the meter of the pulse of man against machine at the different levels of time control. The allocation of elo in each human competitor and in the machine. from Lichess, in addition, it will open the true knowledge of man against machine. These tables and elo should be not only in Odds but in full edtandard systems, and on each computer. Only in this way can we get to know who the king, queen, bishop, knight and rook are among humans, at each and every level of time control. Additionally, they do create tournaments where humans and boots participate simultaneously. The greater and better the emotions and challenges will be for everyone.
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Uri Blass
Posts: 10600
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Uri Blass »

lkaufman wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 7:44 am I did a lot of calculations on the accumulated data for all four handicaps since the last major upgrades, with some interesting findings, which I'll summarize here.
1. The one hundred elo White/Black differential seems to be pretty reasonable overall for all the handicaps. The rook odds data suggested a smaller figure near fifty, while the queen for knight data suggested a larger value near 200, but the samples (of strong enough players to be competitive) weren't that big, so using 100 for them seems at least reasonable. For queen odds the blitz data suggested a lower value than 100, but the bullet and rapid data (including of course Catecan and Uri in those categories) suggested a higher one, so I think we're fine with using 100.
2. The time adjustments used for queen odds seem pretty reasonable for the other handicaps as well, at least in the blitz range, where I focused.
3. The actual performance of the queen odds bot in blitz games (not rapid), adjusted for the specific time controls, was much higher than the listed reference ratings. In round numbers, the bot performs about 150 elo better than the reference ratings in blitz. This doesn't mean that the list should be raised by 150 elo, since, as has been discussed here, some players are not playing seriously, or playing too fast, or when sleepy, drunk or whatever, because they have nothing on the line other than the reputation of their online identity. Probably if the games were rated by LiChess directly people would play better and the performance would be lower, though I don't believe it would be 150 elo lower, maybe 100.
4. Here are the estimated Lichess blitz ratings of the eight bots + colors, in round numbers , at 5'3". For the popular 3'2" TC, add 100 for round numbers (technically 96). Since the knight odds esstimate is based on 2800 level opposition, it is subject to more uncertainty than the others.
Leela giving Knight odds as White: 3150. Knight and Move Odds (meaning Leela is Black) 3050.
Leela giving Rook odds as White: 3000. Rook and Move odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2900.
Leela Queen for Knight odds as White: 2900. Queen and Move for Knight odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2800.
Leela giving Queen odds as White: 2500. Queen and Move odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2400.

For a serious match with something at stake, I would expect performance about 100 below these numbers, but we don't really have much to go by yet on that score.
For a serious match with something at stake it is dependent on the preperation of the human.

My guess is that if the human remember a book of 1000 positions in order to get a better position out of book the difference can be clearly more than 100 elo and my guess is that a lot of players can memorize more than it if they train average of 3 hours per day for three months by a tool like chessbook.com.
lkaufman
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Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by lkaufman »

Uri Blass wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 2:54 pm
lkaufman wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 7:44 am I did a lot of calculations on the accumulated data for all four handicaps since the last major upgrades, with some interesting findings, which I'll summarize here.
1. The one hundred elo White/Black differential seems to be pretty reasonable overall for all the handicaps. The rook odds data suggested a smaller figure near fifty, while the queen for knight data suggested a larger value near 200, but the samples (of strong enough players to be competitive) weren't that big, so using 100 for them seems at least reasonable. For queen odds the blitz data suggested a lower value than 100, but the bullet and rapid data (including of course Catecan and Uri in those categories) suggested a higher one, so I think we're fine with using 100.
2. The time adjustments used for queen odds seem pretty reasonable for the other handicaps as well, at least in the blitz range, where I focused.
3. The actual performance of the queen odds bot in blitz games (not rapid), adjusted for the specific time controls, was much higher than the listed reference ratings. In round numbers, the bot performs about 150 elo better than the reference ratings in blitz. This doesn't mean that the list should be raised by 150 elo, since, as has been discussed here, some players are not playing seriously, or playing too fast, or when sleepy, drunk or whatever, because they have nothing on the line other than the reputation of their online identity. Probably if the games were rated by LiChess directly people would play better and the performance would be lower, though I don't believe it would be 150 elo lower, maybe 100.
4. Here are the estimated Lichess blitz ratings of the eight bots + colors, in round numbers , at 5'3". For the popular 3'2" TC, add 100 for round numbers (technically 96). Since the knight odds esstimate is based on 2800 level opposition, it is subject to more uncertainty than the others.
Leela giving Knight odds as White: 3150. Knight and Move Odds (meaning Leela is Black) 3050.
Leela giving Rook odds as White: 3000. Rook and Move odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2900.
Leela Queen for Knight odds as White: 2900. Queen and Move for Knight odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2800.
Leela giving Queen odds as White: 2500. Queen and Move odds (meaning Leela is Black) 2400.

For a serious match with something at stake, I would expect performance about 100 below these numbers, but we don't really have much to go by yet on that score.
For a serious match with something at stake it is dependent on the preperation of the human.

My guess is that if the human remember a book of 1000 positions in order to get a better position out of book the difference can be clearly more than 100 elo and my guess is that a lot of players can memorize more than it if they train average of 3 hours per day for three months by a tool like chessbook.com.
I believe what you say is correct, but there is not likely to be enough financial incentive to get top players to devote that much time to memorizing odds theory. Also don't underestimate countermeasures from the computer side; we frequently update the nets, the settings, and the opening book, so it's not like you can count on what moves the engine will play.
Komodo rules!
Uri Blass
Posts: 10600
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
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Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Uri Blass »

I am back in the top 10.
I will continue to play against the queen bot odd because I still cannot win 10 games in a row and I get only 80-90% against it in the last days.

8.5-0.5 in 27.11
5-1 in 28.11(one loss)
8-2 today(one loss and 2 draws,in one of the draws today I had a mouse slip when I gave a pawn by 1.e4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.c3 that I did not plan to play(I planned Nc3)

LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+0 (Reference) 2895.2
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+0 (Reference) 2795.2
LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+1 (Reference) 2634.5
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+0 (Reference) 2619.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+1 (Reference) 2534.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+0 (Reference) 2519.5
1 Master_Unknown 2514.6 92
2 Orichess88 2479.7 44
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+2 (Reference) 2450.0
3 Ushkothebear 2445.6 184
4 Hissha 2398.4 94
5 Omnivor 2396.8 30
LeelaQueenOdds as white 5+3 (Reference) 2353.7
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+2 (Reference) 2350.0
6 Catecan 2340.0 1282
7 Respectful_Dave 2299.6 74
8 itore 2297.1 43
LeelaQueenOdds as black 5+3 (Reference) 2253.7
9 Spreek 2229.8 45
10 uriblass 2226.2 175
11 SilverMitt 2223.1 26
LeelaQueenOdds as white 10+5 (Reference) 2220.3
12 nn1133 2212.6 6346
13 Forgive1219 2202.5 189
Father
Posts: 1588
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Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Uri Blass wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:02 pm I am back in the top 10.
I will continue to play against the queen bot odd because I still cannot win 10 games in a row and I get only 80-90% against it in the last days.

8.5-0.5 in 27.11
5-1 in 28.11(one loss)
8-2 today(one loss and 2 draws,in one of the draws today I had a mouse slip when I gave a pawn by 1.e4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.c3 that I did not plan to play(I planned Nc3)

LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+0 (Reference) 2895.2
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+0 (Reference) 2795.2
LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+1 (Reference) 2634.5
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+0 (Reference) 2619.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+1 (Reference) 2534.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+0 (Reference) 2519.5
1 Master_Unknown 2514.6 92
2 Orichess88 2479.7 44
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+2 (Reference) 2450.0
3 Ushkothebear 2445.6 184
4 Hissha 2398.4 94
5 Omnivor 2396.8 30
LeelaQueenOdds as white 5+3 (Reference) 2353.7
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+2 (Reference) 2350.0
6 Catecan 2340.0 1282
7 Respectful_Dave 2299.6 74
8 itore 2297.1 43
LeelaQueenOdds as black 5+3 (Reference) 2253.7
9 Spreek 2229.8 45
10 uriblass 2226.2 175
11 SilverMitt 2223.1 26
LeelaQueenOdds as white 10+5 (Reference) 2220.3
12 nn1133 2212.6 6346
13 Forgive1219 2202.5 189

Good night Uri. Excellent news to occupy one of the top ten places in the table of our hundred best humans. Congratulations. It makes me very happy that you Uri and Mr. Larry Kaufman are very well placed in the table. I started to study the level of play of many players on the table and there are some very strong ones. I have even observed human games with 3000 elo in bullets. I would like to observe Carlsen and Nakamura, playing one minute without increment of time. If anyone follow me
asked me to bet money on what I would believe would be the result of a 10-game match between Leelaqueenodds against Carlen or against Nakamura, I would believe that the bot would win. So Uri occupying the current positions in the table is already a great achievement. Again: Congratulations. !!
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
lkaufman
Posts: 6076
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by lkaufman »

Father wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 4:49 am
Uri Blass wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:02 pm I am back in the top 10.
I will continue to play against the queen bot odd because I still cannot win 10 games in a row and I get only 80-90% against it in the last days.

8.5-0.5 in 27.11
5-1 in 28.11(one loss)
8-2 today(one loss and 2 draws,in one of the draws today I had a mouse slip when I gave a pawn by 1.e4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.c3 that I did not plan to play(I planned Nc3)

LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+0 (Reference) 2895.2
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+0 (Reference) 2795.2
LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+1 (Reference) 2634.5
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+0 (Reference) 2619.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+1 (Reference) 2534.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+0 (Reference) 2519.5
1 Master_Unknown 2514.6 92
2 Orichess88 2479.7 44
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+2 (Reference) 2450.0
3 Ushkothebear 2445.6 184
4 Hissha 2398.4 94
5 Omnivor 2396.8 30
LeelaQueenOdds as white 5+3 (Reference) 2353.7
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+2 (Reference) 2350.0
6 Catecan 2340.0 1282
7 Respectful_Dave 2299.6 74
8 itore 2297.1 43
LeelaQueenOdds as black 5+3 (Reference) 2253.7
9 Spreek 2229.8 45
10 uriblass 2226.2 175
11 SilverMitt 2223.1 26
LeelaQueenOdds as white 10+5 (Reference) 2220.3
12 nn1133 2212.6 6346
13 Forgive1219 2202.5 189

Good night Uri. Excellent news to occupy one of the top ten places in the table of our hundred best humans. Congratulations. It makes me very happy that you Uri and Mr. Larry Kaufman are very well placed in the table. I started to study the level of play of many players on the table and there are some very strong ones. I have even observed human games with 3000 elo in bullets. I would like to observe Carlsen and Nakamura, playing one minute without increment of time. If anyone follow me
asked me to bet money on what I would believe would be the result of a 10-game match between Leelaqueenodds against Carlen or against Nakamura, I would believe that the bot would win. So Uri occupying the current positions in the table is already a great achievement. Again: Congratulations. !!
Actually we can estimate the result of your hypothetical match with math. LeelaQueenOdds has played 46 bullet (1'0") games as White (the standard/default for piece odds) against players rated over 3000 Lichess bullet, mostly against Kasparov (unfortunately not the retired World Champ but a strong IM/bullet specialist with the same name!), rated 3099 bullet, making the average opponent something like 3070. Score 37 wins for Leela, 3 draws, 6 losses, performance +284 = 3354. Carlsen plays there under the name "drnykterstein"; his current bullet rating is quite low at 3029, maybe he has been playing drunk or playing silly openings like bongcloud or something, but his peak when playing seriously was 3379. So if he plays at peak level, it should be pretty much a tossup based on this, as long as Leela plays White. Nakamura doesn't play there but they are essentially equal in bullet so I would expect the same for him. These projections based on weaker opposition are somewhat unreliable, but probably not way off the mark. If I had to bet one way or the other, I would also bet on Leela, as it will always be at peak strength whereas the human might have a bad day for many reasons. Now that would be an exciting match, though very hard to follow as Leela plays at hyperbullet speed. For that reason I don't expect the Leela team to propose or sponsor such a match, but perhaps someone will do so, you never know!
Komodo rules!
Uri Blass
Posts: 10600
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Uri Blass »

lkaufman wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 5:42 am
Father wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 4:49 am
Uri Blass wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:02 pm I am back in the top 10.
I will continue to play against the queen bot odd because I still cannot win 10 games in a row and I get only 80-90% against it in the last days.

8.5-0.5 in 27.11
5-1 in 28.11(one loss)
8-2 today(one loss and 2 draws,in one of the draws today I had a mouse slip when I gave a pawn by 1.e4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.c3 that I did not plan to play(I planned Nc3)

LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+0 (Reference) 2895.2
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+0 (Reference) 2795.2
LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+1 (Reference) 2634.5
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+0 (Reference) 2619.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+1 (Reference) 2534.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+0 (Reference) 2519.5
1 Master_Unknown 2514.6 92
2 Orichess88 2479.7 44
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+2 (Reference) 2450.0
3 Ushkothebear 2445.6 184
4 Hissha 2398.4 94
5 Omnivor 2396.8 30
LeelaQueenOdds as white 5+3 (Reference) 2353.7
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+2 (Reference) 2350.0
6 Catecan 2340.0 1282
7 Respectful_Dave 2299.6 74
8 itore 2297.1 43
LeelaQueenOdds as black 5+3 (Reference) 2253.7
9 Spreek 2229.8 45
10 uriblass 2226.2 175
11 SilverMitt 2223.1 26
LeelaQueenOdds as white 10+5 (Reference) 2220.3
12 nn1133 2212.6 6346
13 Forgive1219 2202.5 189

Good night Uri. Excellent news to occupy one of the top ten places in the table of our hundred best humans. Congratulations. It makes me very happy that you Uri and Mr. Larry Kaufman are very well placed in the table. I started to study the level of play of many players on the table and there are some very strong ones. I have even observed human games with 3000 elo in bullets. I would like to observe Carlsen and Nakamura, playing one minute without increment of time. If anyone follow me
asked me to bet money on what I would believe would be the result of a 10-game match between Leelaqueenodds against Carlen or against Nakamura, I would believe that the bot would win. So Uri occupying the current positions in the table is already a great achievement. Again: Congratulations. !!
Actually we can estimate the result of your hypothetical match with math. LeelaQueenOdds has played 46 bullet (1'0") games as White (the standard/default for piece odds) against players rated over 3000 Lichess bullet, mostly against Kasparov (unfortunately not the retired World Champ but a strong IM/bullet specialist with the same name!), rated 3099 bullet, making the average opponent something like 3070. Score 37 wins for Leela, 3 draws, 6 losses, performance +284 = 3354. Carlsen plays there under the name "drnykterstein"; his current bullet rating is quite low at 3029, maybe he has been playing drunk or playing silly openings like bongcloud or something, but his peak when playing seriously was 3379. So if he plays at peak level, it should be pretty much a tossup based on this, as long as Leela plays White. Nakamura doesn't play there but they are essentially equal in bullet so I would expect the same for him. These projections based on weaker opposition are somewhat unreliable, but probably not way off the mark. If I had to bet one way or the other, I would also bet on Leela, as it will always be at peak strength whereas the human might have a bad day for many reasons. Now that would be an exciting match, though very hard to follow as Leela plays at hyperbullet speed. For that reason I don't expect the Leela team to propose or sponsor such a match, but perhaps someone will do so, you never know!
The name of the bullet expert is not kasparov.
He only has a similiar user name(Kacparov).

https://lichess.org/@/Kacparov
He does not hide his real name and the name is Kacper Drozdowski as you can read in the link.
fide rating 2450 from poland.

https://ratings.fide.com/profile/1136720
Father
Posts: 1588
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Uri Blass wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 12:12 pm
lkaufman wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 5:42 am
Father wrote: Sat Nov 30, 2024 4:49 am
Uri Blass wrote: Fri Nov 29, 2024 9:02 pm I am back in the top 10.
I will continue to play against the queen bot odd because I still cannot win 10 games in a row and I get only 80-90% against it in the last days.

8.5-0.5 in 27.11
5-1 in 28.11(one loss)
8-2 today(one loss and 2 draws,in one of the draws today I had a mouse slip when I gave a pawn by 1.e4 b6 2.d4 Bb7 3.c3 that I did not plan to play(I planned Nc3)

LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+0 (Reference) 2895.2
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+0 (Reference) 2795.2
LeelaQueenOdds as white 1+1 (Reference) 2634.5
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+0 (Reference) 2619.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 1+1 (Reference) 2534.5
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+0 (Reference) 2519.5
1 Master_Unknown 2514.6 92
2 Orichess88 2479.7 44
LeelaQueenOdds as white 3+2 (Reference) 2450.0
3 Ushkothebear 2445.6 184
4 Hissha 2398.4 94
5 Omnivor 2396.8 30
LeelaQueenOdds as white 5+3 (Reference) 2353.7
LeelaQueenOdds as black 3+2 (Reference) 2350.0
6 Catecan 2340.0 1282
7 Respectful_Dave 2299.6 74
8 itore 2297.1 43
LeelaQueenOdds as black 5+3 (Reference) 2253.7
9 Spreek 2229.8 45
10 uriblass 2226.2 175
11 SilverMitt 2223.1 26
LeelaQueenOdds as white 10+5 (Reference) 2220.3
12 nn1133 2212.6 6346
13 Forgive1219 2202.5 189

Good night Uri. Excellent news to occupy one of the top ten places in the table of our hundred best humans. Congratulations. It makes me very happy that you Uri and Mr. Larry Kaufman are very well placed in the table. I started to study the level of play of many players on the table and there are some very strong ones. I have even observed human games with 3000 elo in bullets. I would like to observe Carlsen and Nakamura, playing one minute without increment of time. If anyone follow me
asked me to bet money on what I would believe would be the result of a 10-game match between Leelaqueenodds against Carlen or against Nakamura, I would believe that the bot would win. So Uri occupying the current positions in the table is already a great achievement. Again: Congratulations. !!
Actually we can estimate the result of your hypothetical match with math. LeelaQueenOdds has played 46 bullet (1'0") games as White (the standard/default for piece odds) against players rated over 3000 Lichess bullet, mostly against Kasparov (unfortunately not the retired World Champ but a strong IM/bullet specialist with the same name!), rated 3099 bullet, making the average opponent something like 3070. Score 37 wins for Leela, 3 draws, 6 losses, performance +284 = 3354. Carlsen plays there under the name "drnykterstein"; his current bullet rating is quite low at 3029, maybe he has been playing drunk or playing silly openings like bongcloud or something, but his peak when playing seriously was 3379. So if he plays at peak level, it should be pretty much a tossup based on this, as long as Leela plays White. Nakamura doesn't play there but they are essentially equal in bullet so I would expect the same for him. These projections based on weaker opposition are somewhat unreliable, but probably not way off the mark. If I had to bet one way or the other, I would also bet on Leela, as it will always be at peak strength whereas the human might have a bad day for many reasons. Now that would be an exciting match, though very hard to follow as Leela plays at hyperbullet speed. For that reason I don't expect the Leela team to propose or sponsor such a match, but perhaps someone will do so, you never know!
The name of the bullet expert is not kasparov.
He only has a similiar user name(Kacparov).

https://lichess.org/@/Kacparov
He does not hide his real name and the name is Kacper Drozdowski as you can read in the link.
fide rating 2450 from poland.

https://ratings.fide.com/profile/1136720
Good morning Uri. A new day has been given to us... "Thanks to life, which has given us so much, it gave us two stars, and the alphabet."
It was simply unimaginable to me that a computer playing chess without its queen would have even a small hope of beating an advanced chess player. Chessically speaking, since last September, when Mr. Larry Kaufman taught me about the existence of the Odds, I have entered a fantastic world of gaming, where I am allowed to combine orthodoxy and anti-machine, that is, an invitation to give the best of me. So Uri, thanks to those teachings, my brain is in "airplane mode" sorry, "in LeelaQueenodds mode." Added to this is the intergalactic journey inside the ship from the list of the top 100. There, as passengers, there are stars such as "Kacper Drozdowsk" and the other masters and strong players, who give the rest of the passengers the great joy of being there on board. I hope that in the next stopping stations, in the intergalactic ports, new stars will buy the ticket and take note, the great guests, Carlsen and Nakamura. From my window I make a sign in Morse code that says: "Brothers, we are waiting for you on the ship of oblivion on our journey to the kingdom of heaven, where there will never be oblivion again and everything will be love."
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.