GM Awonder Liang vs Leela Knight Odds Rapid match

[Father]

So the final result was six wins for Leela, seven draws, and one win for Awonder. However that's a bit misleading; Awonder won by 2.5 to 1.5 playing Rapid (1.5 to 0.5 at 10'5" and two draws at 8'3"), but then switched to blitz (3'2") and didn't win any games (4 draws, six losses). So we still can't say that we won a "Rapid" match against a top-fifty GM. The games were quite exciting and GM Matthew Sadler did a great job of commenting them live on his Silicon Road channel. Awonder did slightly better with b1 odds than with g1 odds, getting his single win at b1 odds, while scoring half a point less in total with g1 odds, which is generally thought to be the more difficult challenge for the odds receiver. He indicated a willingness to play a re-match, schedule permitting, presumably limited to Rapid only. The next scheduled match, in late January, is against GM Joel Benjamin, playing at a "standard" time control of one hour plus 30", which looks like quite a challenge for Leela.

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman.
Congratulations to all. To GM AWonder Liang, to you Mr. Larry Kaufman and the Leela team. Between all of you, you are making a great contribution, advancement and development to chess, machines, science and of course, to human beings.
Thank you all.

Tonite, after the match, we had the most incredible result yet. A player using the handle qwi8, rated 3009 bullet and 2764 blitz, tried playing 1'0" bullet chess with Leela at rook odds and as you might expect lost every game. But then he switched to 1' + 2" (which is almost 3'0" blitz), and took White every game (so rook and move odds), and still lost every single game, eight in a row! His ratings are well within the normal range for grandmasters, so this is really incredible. Both the knight odds bot and the rook odds bot were updated yesterday to use a new net that was trained on both knight and rook odds games simultaneously, which seems to be stronger than the old nets specialized for each of the odds. In fact so far the rook odds bot hasn't lost a single game to anyone since the upgrade. I was hoping we would eventually get a ladder for rook odds like the queen odds ladder, but if it is essentially unbeatable by humans in blitz that may not be viable. I could never have imagined having this problem!

Good afternoon Mr. Larry Kaufman. If possible, I would like to know the games of GM AWonder Liang against Leela Knight Odds, in order to study a little the human algorithm of the GM and the algorithm of the software... If you want me to play 4 games, 2 with white, 2 with black, I will be happy to do it, to a time control for example 3'2'', 3+2. If they don't want it, no problem on my part. Thank you. Good day.

** against Leela

[lkaufman]

So the final result was six wins for Leela, seven draws, and one win for Awonder. However that's a bit misleading; Awonder won by 2.5 to 1.5 playing Rapid (1.5 to 0.5 at 10'5" and two draws at 8'3"), but then switched to blitz (3'2") and didn't win any games (4 draws, six losses). So we still can't say that we won a "Rapid" match against a top-fifty GM. The games were quite exciting and GM Matthew Sadler did a great job of commenting them live on his Silicon Road channel. Awonder did slightly better with b1 odds than with g1 odds, getting his single win at b1 odds, while scoring half a point less in total with g1 odds, which is generally thought to be the more difficult challenge for the odds receiver. He indicated a willingness to play a re-match, schedule permitting, presumably limited to Rapid only. The next scheduled match, in late January, is against GM Joel Benjamin, playing at a "standard" time control of one hour plus 30", which looks like quite a challenge for Leela.

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman.
Congratulations to all. To GM AWonder Liang, to you Mr. Larry Kaufman and the Leela team. Between all of you, you are making a great contribution, advancement and development to chess, machines, science and of course, to human beings.
Thank you all.

Tonite, after the match, we had the most incredible result yet. A player using the handle qwi8, rated 3009 bullet and 2764 blitz, tried playing 1'0" bullet chess with Leela at rook odds and as you might expect lost every game. But then he switched to 1' + 2" (which is almost 3'0" blitz), and took White every game (so rook and move odds), and still lost every single game, eight in a row! His ratings are well within the normal range for grandmasters, so this is really incredible. Both the knight odds bot and the rook odds bot were updated yesterday to use a new net that was trained on both knight and rook odds games simultaneously, which seems to be stronger than the old nets specialized for each of the odds. In fact so far the rook odds bot hasn't lost a single game to anyone since the upgrade. I was hoping we would eventually get a ladder for rook odds like the queen odds ladder, but if it is essentially unbeatable by humans in blitz that may not be viable. I could never have imagined having this problem!

Good afternoon Mr. Larry Kaufman. If possible, I would like to know the games of GM AWonder Liang against Leela Knight Odds, in order to study a little the human algorithm of the GM and the algorithm of the software... If you want me to play 4 games, 2 with white, 2 with black, I will be happy to do it, to a time control for example 3'2'', 3+2. If they don't want it, no problem on my part. Thank you. Good day.

I don't understand your question. The games of GM vs Awonder Liang are all available on Lichess for anyone to see, just search for the games vs "A-Liang". Or, just go to Matthew Sadler's YouTube channel and see the show where he comments on all the games live. You are welcome to play against the bot anytime, it can play three people at once, you don't need to ask me. I would be curious as to whether your drawing technique would work against the current bot. I think it might work sometimes at rook odds, but only rarely at knight odds, just due to technical factors that make the rook odds bot more willing to draw than the knight odds bot.

[lkaufman]

A Rapid knight odds match between GM Awonder Liang and LeelaKnightOdds has been scheduled on LiChess for Dec.12. starting at 3 pm Eastern Standard Time (EST), or 9 pm CET. Initial time limit 10'5" (bullet chess for Leela!). Liang may request a change in the time limit after every game pair, based on results. Alternating b1/g1 odds. First player to win six games wins the match (same rule as Kasparov/Karpov 1984-1985, let's hope the FIDE president doesn't have to halt the match after 48 games!). If the match is not finished with the game in progress after 3 hours, we plan to resume on the next suitable afternoon.
GM Liang is rated 2687 FIDE, recently tied for second in the U.S. Championship, recently won the chess.com chess 960 championship, and has had several major successes this year, most notably winning the World Open.
He will be the highest rated player ever to take knight odds from an engine on record. So far no one has a plus or even score against LeelaKnightOdds at any time control, although one anonymous GM from Israel managed to score 4.5 to 5.5 at 20' + 5" recently, so a close match is likely.

GM Anish Giri, World number 22 at FIDE 2731 (and number 3 just 8 years ago) apparently played 23 games with LeelaKnightOdds today at 3'2", without winning a single game, just six draws and 17 losses!! The player ID is Azzaro25, a GM with a 3040 Lichess rating (almost the very top, Magnus is higher, maybe one or two others), and although it doesn't show his name there, the same handle on chess.com is shown as Anish Giri, so there isn't much doubt. Wei Yi, top Chinese player, does the same thing, as (by chance) do I. This is the most incredible result yet. Combined with Awonder's 4 draws and six losses, the overall result at 3'2" of 10 draws and 23 losses against an average FIDE rating of 2718 works out to a FIDE performance rating of 3017, 186 elo points above Magnus Carlsen! So it's now pretty clear that no human can win a match from this bot at 3'2", and even 5'3" looks unlikely. Probably any future knight odds match with any human needs to be at Rapid or longer to be competitive.

[Uri Blass]

A Rapid knight odds match between GM Awonder Liang and LeelaKnightOdds has been scheduled on LiChess for Dec.12. starting at 3 pm Eastern Standard Time (EST), or 9 pm CET. Initial time limit 10'5" (bullet chess for Leela!). Liang may request a change in the time limit after every game pair, based on results. Alternating b1/g1 odds. First player to win six games wins the match (same rule as Kasparov/Karpov 1984-1985, let's hope the FIDE president doesn't have to halt the match after 48 games!). If the match is not finished with the game in progress after 3 hours, we plan to resume on the next suitable afternoon.
GM Liang is rated 2687 FIDE, recently tied for second in the U.S. Championship, recently won the chess.com chess 960 championship, and has had several major successes this year, most notably winning the World Open.
He will be the highest rated player ever to take knight odds from an engine on record. So far no one has a plus or even score against LeelaKnightOdds at any time control, although one anonymous GM from Israel managed to score 4.5 to 5.5 at 20' + 5" recently, so a close match is likely.

GM Anish Giri, World number 22 at FIDE 2731 (and number 3 just 8 years ago) apparently played 23 games with LeelaKnightOdds today at 3'2", without winning a single game, just six draws and 17 losses!! The player ID is Azzaro25, a GM with a 3040 Lichess rating (almost the very top, Magnus is higher, maybe one or two others), and although it doesn't show his name there, the same handle on chess.com is shown as Anish Giri, so there isn't much doubt. Wei Yi, top Chinese player, does the same thing, as (by chance) do I. This is the most incredible result yet. Combined with Awonder's 4 draws and six losses, the overall result at 3'2" of 10 draws and 23 losses against an average FIDE rating of 2718 works out to a FIDE performance rating of 3017, 186 elo points above Magnus Carlsen! So it's now pretty clear that no human can win a match from this bot at 3'2", and even 5'3" looks unlikely. Probably any future knight odds match with any human needs to be at Rapid or longer to be competitive.

I do not think it is clear that no human can win at 3+2 against the knight odd bot.
Being better in chess is not equivalent to being better at knight odds and the experience of giri is not mainly in knight odds games.

Top humans who prepare may do better and not only because of opening preperation.

[Father]

So the final result was six wins for Leela, seven draws, and one win for Awonder. However that's a bit misleading; Awonder won by 2.5 to 1.5 playing Rapid (1.5 to 0.5 at 10'5" and two draws at 8'3"), but then switched to blitz (3'2") and didn't win any games (4 draws, six losses). So we still can't say that we won a "Rapid" match against a top-fifty GM. The games were quite exciting and GM Matthew Sadler did a great job of commenting them live on his Silicon Road channel. Awonder did slightly better with b1 odds than with g1 odds, getting his single win at b1 odds, while scoring half a point less in total with g1 odds, which is generally thought to be the more difficult challenge for the odds receiver. He indicated a willingness to play a re-match, schedule permitting, presumably limited to Rapid only. The next scheduled match, in late January, is against GM Joel Benjamin, playing at a "standard" time control of one hour plus 30", which looks like quite a challenge for Leela.

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman.
Congratulations to all. To GM AWonder Liang, to you Mr. Larry Kaufman and the Leela team. Between all of you, you are making a great contribution, advancement and development to chess, machines, science and of course, to human beings.
Thank you all.

Tonite, after the match, we had the most incredible result yet. A player using the handle qwi8, rated 3009 bullet and 2764 blitz, tried playing 1'0" bullet chess with Leela at rook odds and as you might expect lost every game. But then he switched to 1' + 2" (which is almost 3'0" blitz), and took White every game (so rook and move odds), and still lost every single game, eight in a row! His ratings are well within the normal range for grandmasters, so this is really incredible. Both the knight odds bot and the rook odds bot were updated yesterday to use a new net that was trained on both knight and rook odds games simultaneously, which seems to be stronger than the old nets specialized for each of the odds. In fact so far the rook odds bot hasn't lost a single game to anyone since the upgrade. I was hoping we would eventually get a ladder for rook odds like the queen odds ladder, but if it is essentially unbeatable by humans in blitz that may not be viable. I could never have imagined having this problem!

Good afternoon Mr. Larry Kaufman. If possible, I would like to know the games of GM AWonder Liang against Leela Knight Odds, in order to study a little the human algorithm of the GM and the algorithm of the software... If you want me to play 4 games, 2 with white, 2 with black, I will be happy to do it, to a time control for example 3'2'', 3+2. If they don't want it, no problem on my part. Thank you. Good day.

I don't understand your question. The games of GM vs Awonder Liang are all available on Lichess for anyone to see, just search for the games vs "A-Liang". Or, just go to Matthew Sadler's YouTube channel and see the show where he comments on all the games live. You are welcome to play against the bot anytime, it can play three people at once, you don't need to ask me. I would be curious as to whether your drawing technique would work against the current bot. I think it might work sometimes at rook odds, but only rarely at knight odds, just due to technical factors that make the rook odds bot more willing to draw than the knight odds bot.

Thank you very much Mr. Larry Kaufman for your information. I had no knowledge that I could play against the same software and the same algorithmic personality that GM AWonder Liang fought with and other Top GMs even stronger today to the battle power that GM AWonder Liang has. I wonder if Leela and Lichess are going to implement a table of the top 100 humans who are facing the computer, I simply aspire to be part of the list of humans who occupy the 100 best places in the world, and following the observations of Uri Blass which I share, "slapping the face, pulling the nose and tail of the machine, and slapping the machine on the floor on the ears, after doing a judo key to the machine and throw it to the floor until it gives up and ask for mercy from the computer that pats the floor with its right hand. Of course it wouldn't be that, my fights, an occasional technique, or occasional fight against that entity, alone. I consider that it would be better for me to wait until there is a competition ecosystem where there are the best GMs in the world, with whom I, a simple "street fighter" will fight for the table. He has taught me something very clear. ring on the street, I am not afraid of the computer or the chess Masters, my love for the fight against the machine surpasses all limits. "Catecan" is ready to kick the machine in the mouth. The loud roars of "Catecan" can be heard from afar.

[Father]

So the final result was six wins for Leela, seven draws, and one win for Awonder. However that's a bit misleading; Awonder won by 2.5 to 1.5 playing Rapid (1.5 to 0.5 at 10'5" and two draws at 8'3"), but then switched to blitz (3'2") and didn't win any games (4 draws, six losses). So we still can't say that we won a "Rapid" match against a top-fifty GM. The games were quite exciting and GM Matthew Sadler did a great job of commenting them live on his Silicon Road channel. Awonder did slightly better with b1 odds than with g1 odds, getting his single win at b1 odds, while scoring half a point less in total with g1 odds, which is generally thought to be the more difficult challenge for the odds receiver. He indicated a willingness to play a re-match, schedule permitting, presumably limited to Rapid only. The next scheduled match, in late January, is against GM Joel Benjamin, playing at a "standard" time control of one hour plus 30", which looks like quite a challenge for Leela.

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman.
Congratulations to all. To GM AWonder Liang, to you Mr. Larry Kaufman and the Leela team. Between all of you, you are making a great contribution, advancement and development to chess, machines, science and of course, to human beings.
Thank you all.

Tonite, after the match, we had the most incredible result yet. A player using the handle qwi8, rated 3009 bullet and 2764 blitz, tried playing 1'0" bullet chess with Leela at rook odds and as you might expect lost every game. But then he switched to 1' + 2" (which is almost 3'0" blitz), and took White every game (so rook and move odds), and still lost every single game, eight in a row! His ratings are well within the normal range for grandmasters, so this is really incredible. Both the knight odds bot and the rook odds bot were updated yesterday to use a new net that was trained on both knight and rook odds games simultaneously, which seems to be stronger than the old nets specialized for each of the odds. In fact so far the rook odds bot hasn't lost a single game to anyone since the upgrade. I was hoping we would eventually get a ladder for rook odds like the queen odds ladder, but if it is essentially unbeatable by humans in blitz that may not be viable. I could never have imagined having this problem!

Good afternoon Mr. Larry Kaufman. If possible, I would like to know the games of GM AWonder Liang against Leela Knight Odds, in order to study a little the human algorithm of the GM and the algorithm of the software... If you want me to play 4 games, 2 with white, 2 with black, I will be happy to do it, to a time control for example 3'2'', 3+2. If they don't want it, no problem on my part. Thank you. Good day.

I don't understand your question. The games of GM vs Awonder Liang are all available on Lichess for anyone to see, just search for the games vs "A-Liang". Or, just go to Matthew Sadler's YouTube channel and see the show where he comments on all the games live. You are welcome to play against the bot anytime, it can play three people at once, you don't need to ask me. I would be curious as to whether your drawing technique would work against the current bot. I think it might work sometimes at rook odds, but only rarely at knight odds, just due to technical factors that make the rook odds bot more willing to draw than the knight odds bot.

Thank you very much Mr. Larry Kaufman for your information. I had no knowledge that I could play against the same software and the same algorithmic personality that GM AWonder Liang fought with and other Top GMs even stronger today to the battle power that GM AWonder Liang has. I wonder if Leela and Lichess are going to implement a table of the top 100 humans who are facing the computer, I simply aspire to be part of the list of humans who occupy the 100 best places in the world, and following the observations of Uri Blass which I share, "slapping the face, pulling the nose and tail of the machine, and slapping the machine on the floor on the ears, after doing a judo key to the machine and throw it to the floor until it gives up and ask for mercy from the computer that pats the floor with its right hand. Of course it wouldn't be that, my fights, an occasional technique, or occasional fight against that entity, alone. I consider that it would be better for me to wait until there is a competition ecosystem where there are the best GMs in the world, with whom I, a simple "street fighter" will fight for the table. He has taught me something very clear. ring on the street, I am not afraid of the computer or the chess Masters, my love for the fight against the machine surpasses all limits. "Catecan" is ready to kick the machine in the mouth. The loud roars of "Catecan" can be heard from afar.

[pgn][Event "Casual blitz game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/V788Uzwx"]
[Date "2024.12.14"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.14"]
[UTCTime "14:34:04"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2082"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. d4 d5 2. Bf4 e6 3. Nc3 f5 4. Nf3 c6 5. Ne5 Nf6 6. e3 Bd6 7. h4 Qc7 8. h5 Nd7 9. Nd3 Bxf4 10. Nxf4 Nf6 11. Nd3 Bd7 12. Ne2 O-O 13. Nef4 Rfe8 14. Be2 Re7 15. c3 Rae8 16. Ne5 Bc8 17. h6 g6 18. a4 Nd7 19. Nfd3 Nxe5 20. Nxe5 a6 21. b4 Bd7 22. a5 Kh8 23. Kd2 Rg8 24. f4 Be8 25. g3 Qc8 26. Nf3 Qc7 27. Ng5 Qc8 28. Bd3 Qd7 29. Ke2 Qc7 30. Kf2 Qd7 31. Be2 Qc7 32. Rhc1 Qd7 33. c4 Qd6 34. c5 Qc7 35. Rh1 Qd7 36. Rag1 Qc7 37. Rg2 Qd7 38. Rhg1 Qc7 39. Bd3 Qd7 40. Ke2 Qc7 41. Kd2 Qd7 42. g4 Qc7 43. Nf3 Bd7 44. g5 Be8 45. Ne5 Qc8 46. Ke2 Qc7 47. Kf2 Qc8 48. Kg3 Qc7 49. Kh4 Qc8 50. Kg3 Qc7 51. Kf2 Qc8 52. Ke1 Qc7 53. Kd2 Qc8 54. Kc3 Qc7 55. Kb3 Qc8 56. Ka4 Qc7 57. Kb3 Qc8 58. Kc3 Qc7 59. Ra1 Qc8 60. Kd2 Qc7 61. Ke1 Qc8 62. Kf2 Qc7 63. Kg3 Qc8 64. Kh4 Qc7 65. Kg3 Rf8 66. b5 cxb5 67. Bc2 Bc6 68. Bd1 Qc8 69. Kf2 Qe8 70. Ke1 Kg8 71. Kd2 Kh8 72. Kc3 Kg8 73. Kb4 Kh8 74. Rg1 Kg8 75. Rg3 Kh8 76. Rg2 Kg8 77. Bb3 Kh8 78. Bc2 Kg8 79. Bd1 Kh8 80. Rh2 Kg8 81. Bc2 Kh8 82. Bb3 Kg8 83. Bc2 Kh8 84. Bd1 Kg8 85. Bb3 Kh8 86. Rah1 Kg8 87. Bd1 Kh8 88. Ra2 Kg8 89. Rd2 Kh8 90. Rdh2 Kg8 91. Bb3 Kh8 92. Bd1 Kg8 93. Rf2 Kh8 94. Rc2 Kg8 95. Rch2 Kh8 96. Rg2 Kg8 97. Rf1 Kh8 98. Rc2 Kg8 99. Rh2 Kh8 100. Rg2 Kg8 101. Rgf2 Kh8 102. Rh2 Kg8 103. Rg2 Kh8 104. Rgf2 Kg8 105. Rg1 Kh8 106. Rh2 Kg8 107. Rc2 Kh8 108. Rf2 Kg8 109. Rfg2 Kh8 110. Rh2 Kg8 111. Rf2 Kh8 112. Rfg2 Kg8 113. Re1 Kh8 114. Rh2 Kg8 115. Rg1 Kh8 116. Rgh1 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

[lkaufman]

So the final result was six wins for Leela, seven draws, and one win for Awonder. However that's a bit misleading; Awonder won by 2.5 to 1.5 playing Rapid (1.5 to 0.5 at 10'5" and two draws at 8'3"), but then switched to blitz (3'2") and didn't win any games (4 draws, six losses). So we still can't say that we won a "Rapid" match against a top-fifty GM. The games were quite exciting and GM Matthew Sadler did a great job of commenting them live on his Silicon Road channel. Awonder did slightly better with b1 odds than with g1 odds, getting his single win at b1 odds, while scoring half a point less in total with g1 odds, which is generally thought to be the more difficult challenge for the odds receiver. He indicated a willingness to play a re-match, schedule permitting, presumably limited to Rapid only. The next scheduled match, in late January, is against GM Joel Benjamin, playing at a "standard" time control of one hour plus 30", which looks like quite a challenge for Leela.

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman.
Congratulations to all. To GM AWonder Liang, to you Mr. Larry Kaufman and the Leela team. Between all of you, you are making a great contribution, advancement and development to chess, machines, science and of course, to human beings.
Thank you all.

Tonite, after the match, we had the most incredible result yet. A player using the handle qwi8, rated 3009 bullet and 2764 blitz, tried playing 1'0" bullet chess with Leela at rook odds and as you might expect lost every game. But then he switched to 1' + 2" (which is almost 3'0" blitz), and took White every game (so rook and move odds), and still lost every single game, eight in a row! His ratings are well within the normal range for grandmasters, so this is really incredible. Both the knight odds bot and the rook odds bot were updated yesterday to use a new net that was trained on both knight and rook odds games simultaneously, which seems to be stronger than the old nets specialized for each of the odds. In fact so far the rook odds bot hasn't lost a single game to anyone since the upgrade. I was hoping we would eventually get a ladder for rook odds like the queen odds ladder, but if it is essentially unbeatable by humans in blitz that may not be viable. I could never have imagined having this problem!

Good afternoon Mr. Larry Kaufman. If possible, I would like to know the games of GM AWonder Liang against Leela Knight Odds, in order to study a little the human algorithm of the GM and the algorithm of the software... If you want me to play 4 games, 2 with white, 2 with black, I will be happy to do it, to a time control for example 3'2'', 3+2. If they don't want it, no problem on my part. Thank you. Good day.

I don't understand your question. The games of GM vs Awonder Liang are all available on Lichess for anyone to see, just search for the games vs "A-Liang". Or, just go to Matthew Sadler's YouTube channel and see the show where he comments on all the games live. You are welcome to play against the bot anytime, it can play three people at once, you don't need to ask me. I would be curious as to whether your drawing technique would work against the current bot. I think it might work sometimes at rook odds, but only rarely at knight odds, just due to technical factors that make the rook odds bot more willing to draw than the knight odds bot.

Thank you very much Mr. Larry Kaufman for your information. I had no knowledge that I could play against the same software and the same algorithmic personality that GM AWonder Liang fought with and other Top GMs even stronger today to the battle power that GM AWonder Liang has. I wonder if Leela and Lichess are going to implement a table of the top 100 humans who are facing the computer, I simply aspire to be part of the list of humans who occupy the 100 best places in the world, and following the observations of Uri Blass which I share, "slapping the face, pulling the nose and tail of the machine, and slapping the machine on the floor on the ears, after doing a judo key to the machine and throw it to the floor until it gives up and ask for mercy from the computer that pats the floor with its right hand. Of course it wouldn't be that, my fights, an occasional technique, or occasional fight against that entity, alone. I consider that it would be better for me to wait until there is a competition ecosystem where there are the best GMs in the world, with whom I, a simple "street fighter" will fight for the table. He has taught me something very clear. ring on the street, I am not afraid of the computer or the chess Masters, my love for the fight against the machine surpasses all limits. "Catecan" is ready to kick the machine in the mouth. The loud roars of "Catecan" can be heard from afar.

In principle, it would be nice to have a leaderboard like the queen odds one for rook odds and knight odds. The problem is that the only players who can score around 50% or better so far are strong GMs playing Rapid, but few of them so far have been willing to devote the time to playing rapid, instead preferring to lose at blitz. Perhaps if we see enough strong GMs playing Rapid against the bots it will make sense to have a leaderboard.

[lkaufman]

A Rapid knight odds match between GM Awonder Liang and LeelaKnightOdds has been scheduled on LiChess for Dec.12. starting at 3 pm Eastern Standard Time (EST), or 9 pm CET. Initial time limit 10'5" (bullet chess for Leela!). Liang may request a change in the time limit after every game pair, based on results. Alternating b1/g1 odds. First player to win six games wins the match (same rule as Kasparov/Karpov 1984-1985, let's hope the FIDE president doesn't have to halt the match after 48 games!). If the match is not finished with the game in progress after 3 hours, we plan to resume on the next suitable afternoon.
GM Liang is rated 2687 FIDE, recently tied for second in the U.S. Championship, recently won the chess.com chess 960 championship, and has had several major successes this year, most notably winning the World Open.
He will be the highest rated player ever to take knight odds from an engine on record. So far no one has a plus or even score against LeelaKnightOdds at any time control, although one anonymous GM from Israel managed to score 4.5 to 5.5 at 20' + 5" recently, so a close match is likely.

GM Anish Giri, World number 22 at FIDE 2731 (and number 3 just 8 years ago) apparently played 23 games with LeelaKnightOdds today at 3'2", without winning a single game, just six draws and 17 losses!! The player ID is Azzaro25, a GM with a 3040 Lichess rating (almost the very top, Magnus is higher, maybe one or two others), and although it doesn't show his name there, the same handle on chess.com is shown as Anish Giri, so there isn't much doubt. Wei Yi, top Chinese player, does the same thing, as (by chance) do I. This is the most incredible result yet. Combined with Awonder's 4 draws and six losses, the overall result at 3'2" of 10 draws and 23 losses against an average FIDE rating of 2718 works out to a FIDE performance rating of 3017, 186 elo points above Magnus Carlsen! So it's now pretty clear that no human can win a match from this bot at 3'2", and even 5'3" looks unlikely. Probably any future knight odds match with any human needs to be at Rapid or longer to be competitive.

I do not think it is clear that no human can win at 3+2 against the knight odd bot.
Being better in chess is not equivalent to being better at knight odds and the experience of giri is not mainly in knight odds games.

Top humans who prepare may do better and not only because of opening preperation.

Yes, preparation and experience help, and the skill set needed to beat the bot at knight odds is not identical to the skill set needed to top normal rating lists, but they are highly correlated. I don't claim that it is impossible for any human ever to win a knight odds blitz match from Leela, only that it is unlikely to happen given that the very best chess players in the world are unlikely to devote hundreds of hours to this challenge, although there is some motivation in that it seems likely that playing hundreds of games with the bot at knight odds will improve one's play in normal chess against humans at similar time limits. It's all about reducing errors. But based on the crushing 28 to 5 score vs 2718 FIDE opposition, it would take a huge improvement even for a 2800 FIDE player to make a plus score, and I don't think that large an improvement is a realistic expectation unless someone puts up a million dollar prize for beating the bot. Even then, I think the bot will improve fast enough to head off any human attempt to beat it in blitz.

[Father]

A Rapid knight odds match between GM Awonder Liang and LeelaKnightOdds has been scheduled on LiChess for Dec.12. starting at 3 pm Eastern Standard Time (EST), or 9 pm CET. Initial time limit 10'5" (bullet chess for Leela!). Liang may request a change in the time limit after every game pair, based on results. Alternating b1/g1 odds. First player to win six games wins the match (same rule as Kasparov/Karpov 1984-1985, let's hope the FIDE president doesn't have to halt the match after 48 games!). If the match is not finished with the game in progress after 3 hours, we plan to resume on the next suitable afternoon.
GM Liang is rated 2687 FIDE, recently tied for second in the U.S. Championship, recently won the chess.com chess 960 championship, and has had several major successes this year, most notably winning the World Open.
He will be the highest rated player ever to take knight odds from an engine on record. So far no one has a plus or even score against LeelaKnightOdds at any time control, although one anonymous GM from Israel managed to score 4.5 to 5.5 at 20' + 5" recently, so a close match is likely.

GM Anish Giri, World number 22 at FIDE 2731 (and number 3 just 8 years ago) apparently played 23 games with LeelaKnightOdds today at 3'2", without winning a single game, just six draws and 17 losses!! The player ID is Azzaro25, a GM with a 3040 Lichess rating (almost the very top, Magnus is higher, maybe one or two others), and although it doesn't show his name there, the same handle on chess.com is shown as Anish Giri, so there isn't much doubt. Wei Yi, top Chinese player, does the same thing, as (by chance) do I. This is the most incredible result yet. Combined with Awonder's 4 draws and six losses, the overall result at 3'2" of 10 draws and 23 losses against an average FIDE rating of 2718 works out to a FIDE performance rating of 3017, 186 elo points above Magnus Carlsen! So it's now pretty clear that no human can win a match from this bot at 3'2", and even 5'3" looks unlikely. Probably any future knight odds match with any human needs to be at Rapid or longer to be competitive.

I do not think it is clear that no human can win at 3+2 against the knight odd bot.
Being better in chess is not equivalent to being better at knight odds and the experience of giri is not mainly in knight odds games.

Top humans who prepare may do better and not only because of opening preperation.

Yes, preparation and experience help, and the skill set needed to beat the bot at knight odds is not identical to the skill set needed to top normal rating lists, but they are highly correlated. I don't claim that it is impossible for any human ever to win a knight odds blitz match from Leela, only that it is unlikely to happen given that the very best chess players in the world are unlikely to devote hundreds of hours to this challenge, although there is some motivation in that it seems likely that playing hundreds of games with the bot at knight odds will improve one's play in normal chess against humans at similar time limits. It's all about reducing errors. But based on the crushing 28 to 5 score vs 2718 FIDE opposition, it would take a huge improvement even for a 2800 FIDE player to make a plus score, and I don't think that large an improvement is a realistic expectation unless someone puts up a million dollar prize for beating the bot. Even then, I think the bot will improve fast enough to head off any human attempt to beat it in blitz.

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman. I've been thinking a little about the importance of motivations to attract humans to play chess against odds bots.
I believed that "the opportunity to beat the
minus some games" is essential. This way each human will adjust to a certain bot and a certain time control. I continue to believe that the great starlet, "Leelaqueenodds", in my opinion is the most attractive of all, to the point that in the portfolio There is a menu from a super grandmaster to time control 1 without increment, to many other levels of players.
Personally, I find it "the best", watching the strongest play at a minute's notice. For me it is simply sensational, and I think that this niche could definitely attract the best of the best of humans... it is the highest challenge and challenge and I think Carlsen and Nakamura would make the party very enjoyable for the fans and their fans. admirers, among whom is the subscriber who writes...

[Father]

[pgn][pgn][/pgn][/pgn]

A Rapid knight odds match between GM Awonder Liang and LeelaKnightOdds has been scheduled on LiChess for Dec.12. starting at 3 pm Eastern Standard Time (EST), or 9 pm CET. Initial time limit 10'5" (bullet chess for Leela!). Liang may request a change in the time limit after every game pair, based on results. Alternating b1/g1 odds. First player to win six games wins the match (same rule as Kasparov/Karpov 1984-1985, let's hope the FIDE president doesn't have to halt the match after 48 games!). If the match is not finished with the game in progress after 3 hours, we plan to resume on the next suitable afternoon.
GM Liang is rated 2687 FIDE, recently tied for second in the U.S. Championship, recently won the chess.com chess 960 championship, and has had several major successes this year, most notably winning the World Open.
He will be the highest rated player ever to take knight odds from an engine on record. So far no one has a plus or even score against LeelaKnightOdds at any time control, although one anonymous GM from Israel managed to score 4.5 to 5.5 at 20' + 5" recently, so a close match is likely.

GM Anish Giri, World number 22 at FIDE 2731 (and number 3 just 8 years ago) apparently played 23 games with LeelaKnightOdds today at 3'2", without winning a single game, just six draws and 17 losses!! The player ID is Azzaro25, a GM with a 3040 Lichess rating (almost the very top, Magnus is higher, maybe one or two others), and although it doesn't show his name there, the same handle on chess.com is shown as Anish Giri, so there isn't much doubt. Wei Yi, top Chinese player, does the same thing, as (by chance) do I. This is the most incredible result yet. Combined with Awonder's 4 draws and six losses, the overall result at 3'2" of 10 draws and 23 losses against an average FIDE rating of 2718 works out to a FIDE performance rating of 3017, 186 elo points above Magnus Carlsen! So it's now pretty clear that no human can win a match from this bot at 3'2", and even 5'3" looks unlikely. Probably any future knight odds match with any human needs to be at Rapid or longer to be competitive.

I do not think it is clear that no human can win at 3+2 against the knight odd bot.
Being better in chess is not equivalent to being better at knight odds and the experience of giri is not mainly in knight odds games.

Top humans who prepare may do better and not only because of opening preperation.

Yes, preparation and experience help, and the skill set needed to beat the bot at knight odds is not identical to the skill set needed to top normal rating lists, but they are highly correlated. I don't claim that it is impossible for any human ever to win a knight odds blitz match from Leela, only that it is unlikely to happen given that the very best chess players in the world are unlikely to devote hundreds of hours to this challenge, although there is some motivation in that it seems likely that playing hundreds of games with the bot at knight odds will improve one's play in normal chess against humans at similar time limits. It's all about reducing errors. But based on the crushing 28 to 5 score vs 2718 FIDE opposition, it would take a huge improvement even for a 2800 FIDE player to make a plus score, and I don't think that large an improvement is a realistic expectation unless someone puts up a million dollar prize for beating the bot. Even then, I think the bot will improve fast enough to head off any human attempt to beat it in blitz.

Good evening Mr. Larry Kaufman. I've been thinking a little about the importance of motivations to attract humans to play chess against odds bots.
I believed that "the opportunity to beat the
minus some games" is essential. This way each human will adjust to a certain bot and a certain time control. I continue to believe that the great starlet, "Leelaqueenodds", in my opinion is the most attractive of all, to the point that in the portfolio There is a menu from a super grandmaster to time control 1 without increment, to many other levels of players.
Personally, I find it "the best", watching the strongest play at a minute's notice. For me it is simply sensational, and I think that this niche could definitely attract the best of the best of humans... it is the highest challenge and challenge and I think Carlsen and Nakamura would make the party very enjoyable for the fans and their fans. admirers, among whom is the subscriber who writes...

[pgn][Event "Casual blitz game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/yeHOfPAR"]
[Date "2024.12.15"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.15"]
[UTCTime "05:38:18"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2082"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "180+2"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. d3 d5 2. e4 dxe4 3. dxe4 e5 4. Nf3 Bd6 5. Nc3 Nf6 6. Bg5 h6 7. Bh4 Bg4 8. Nd2 Be6 9. O-O-O Qe7 10. f3 O-O-O 11. Bd3 Kb8 12. Rhf1 g5 13. Bf2 Rd7 14. g4 Rhd8 15. Bg3 c6 16. h4 Nh7 17. hxg5 hxg5 18. Nc4 Bxc4 19. Bxc4 Bc7 20. Rxd7 Rxd7 21. Nd1 Nf8 22. Ne3 f6 23. a3 Ng6 24. Nf5 Qd8 25. Be6 Rh7 26. Kb1 Nf4 27. Bb3 Qh8 28. Bxf4 gxf4 29. Ka2 Rh1 30. Rf2 Rh2 31. Rf1 Rh1 32. Rf2 Rh2 33. Rf1 Rh1 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]