Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

Father
Posts: 1710
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2024 3:10 am
lkaufman wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 6:36 pm
Father wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 4:24 pm
Father wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 12:19 am
Father wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 12:14 am
lkaufman wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 12:00 am
Father wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 10:23 pm
Father wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:28 am
Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 8:56 am[pgn][/pgn]
I wondered if people could recently beat the knight odd bot in blitz and the result is that people could do it.

I found that gelyaromanova lost 216-1 with 4 draws against LeelaKnightOdds

lost 20-0 at 1+0
lost 29-0 at 2+0
and finally lost 167-1 with 4 draws at 3+2
[pgn] Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/Nwspg2fA"]
[Date "2024.12.18"]
[White "LeelaKnightOdds"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.18"]
[UTCTime "09:12:48"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. c4 f5 2. Nc3 e6 3. d4 Nf6 4. e3 d5 5. Qc2 c6 6. Bd3 g6 7. b3 Bd6 8. Bb2 Qe7 9. O-O Ba3 10. Bxa3 Qxa3 11. c5 Qa5 12. a4 Qc7 13. b4 a6 14. f4 O-O 15. h3 Rf7 16. b5 Rg7 17. Qf2 Ne8 18. b6 Qe7 19. g4 Nd7 20. g5 Nb8 21. h4 Rf7 22. h5 Ng7 23. h6 Ne8 24. Qg3 Rf8 25. Rab1 Kh8 26. Na2 Rg8 27. Nb4 Qd7 28. a5 Rf8 29. Bc2 Rf7 30. Ba4 Rf8 31. Nd3 Rf7 32. Ne5 Qe7 33. Rb2 Rf8 34. Rfb1 Rf7 35. Bd1 Rf8 36. Qh2 Rf7 37. Kh1 Rf8 38. Qh3 Rf7 39. Nf3 Rf8 40. Ba4 Rf7 41. Ne5 Rf8 42. Rg1 Rf7 43. Rh2 Rf8 44. Rb2 Rf7 45. Rh2 Rf8 46. Rb1 Rf7 47. Nxf7+ Qxf7 48. Rhb2 Qe7 49. e4 fxe4 50. Qg3 Kg8 51. Rb3 Kh8 52. Kg2 Kg8 53. Kf2 Kh8 54. Ke1 Kg8 55. R3b2 Kh8 56. Kd2 Kg8 57. Kc2 Kh8 58. Qc3 Kg8 59. Kb3 Kh8 60. Ka3 Kg8 61. Ka2 Kh8 62. Ka1 Kg8 63. Qb3 Kh8 64. Qg3 Kg8 65. Rc2 Kh8 66. Kb2 Kg8 67. Kc1 Kh8 68. Kd1 Kg8 69. Ke1 Kh8 70. Rcb2 Kg8 71. Kf1 Kh8 72. Kg1 Kg8 73. Rf1 Kh8 74. Rbf2 Kg8 75. Bd1 Kh8 76. Bg4 Kg8 77. Qh3 Kh8 78. Kh1 Kg8 79. Rg1 Kh8 80. Rg3 Kg8 81. Re3 Kh8 82. Re1 Kg8 83. Ref1 Kh8 84. Qg3 Kg8 85. Kg1 Kh8 86. Qh3 Kg8 87. Kh1 Kh8 88. Qg3 Kg8 89. Qh3 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

Good morning Uri, I hope you are well and continue to be well.
Uri. LeelaKnightOdds is like a wild horse; You ride him and he throws you on the ground again and again, then you get to know him, you make the horse ride, trot and run, finally you tame him, and he eats from your hand.
... how strange ... I have seen that the number of matches of the best players against LeelaQueenOdds has decreased? Also in bullet controls there are fewer Masters... what reason could there be for the lack of enthusiasm? I also note that the Top 100 position table has not been updated... how sad all this is...
I think that some interested has shifted back from queen odds to knight odds and rook odds. My guess is that many 2800+ bullet players have given up; their goal was probably to make a plus score at 1'0" at queen odds, but no one can do it so far, maybe Magnus or Hikaru might have a chance, but as far as we know they haven't tried. But it remains a good way to practice/improve bullet skills, so I expect we'll still see a reasonable number of such players playing the bot from time to time.
...Well, what else can be done? Surely the saying applies here: "many are called but few are chosen." Here we will surely remain firm, an important group. Personally, I prefer LeelaQueenOdds for bullet and blitz tests, it is more emblematic, playing against an opponent who gives us the queen before the match begins, it is a perfect algorithm. I consider that bullet 1-0 and with a 1 second increment is the perfect scenario to show what material one is built of and the top players could, in 1 minute plus 1 second, test the strength publicly, which makes it more exciting. Refuse to fight will never be a good option. I aspire and would like to have the pleasure of observing the bullet fights of the GMs again.
In addition to all the time controls that are allowed, LeelaQueeOdds could provide us with the scenario where the strongest teach us through their examples and games how to beat the computer.
[pgn][Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/HXA9Zp9E"]
[Date "2024.12.22"]
[White "LeelaQueenOdds"]
[Black "brewmasterua"]
[Result "0-1"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.22"]
[UTCTime "06:58:19"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "3163"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. Nf3 Nc6 2. e4 e5 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bc4 Nxe4 5. Nd5 Nf6 6. d4 Nxd4 7. Nxd4 exd4 8. Nxf6+ Qxf6 9. O-O Be7 10. Re1 O-O 11. Bd2 c6 12. h4 d5 13. Bg5 dxc4 14. Rxe7 Qxe7 15. Bxe7 Re8 16. Bc5 d3 17. cxd3 cxd3 18. Rd1 Bf5 19. g4 Be4 20. Kh2 b6 21. Be3 Rad8 22. Kg3 Rd7 23. f3 Bg6 24. Bd2 f6 25. h5 Bf7 26. h6 gxh6 27. Bc3 Bxa2 28. Ra1 Bb3 29. Ra3 d2 30. Bxd2 Rxd2 31. Rxb3 Ree2 32. Rc3 c5 33. b3 Kf7 34. Kf4 Rd4+ 35. Kg3 Rb2 36. Re3 Rb4 37. Rd3 Ke7 38. Re3+ Kd7 39. Rd3+ Kc6 40. Re3 R2xb3 41. Re6+ Kb5 42. Rxf6 a5 43. Rxh6 a4 44. Rxh7 a3 45. Rh2 Rb2 46. Rh1 a2 47. Ra1 Ra4 48. g5 Rb1 49. Rxa2 Rxa2 50. Kg4 Rg1+ 51. Kf5 Rf2 52. f4 Rgf1 53. g6 Rxf4+ 54. Kg5 R4f2 55. Kh6 Rg1 56. Kg7 Rfg2 57. Kf6 Rxg6+ 58. Kf5 c4 59. Ke4 c3 60. Ke3 Kb4 61. Ke4 Kb3 62. Ke3 b5 63. Ke4 b4 64. Ke3 Kb2 65. Ke4 b3 66. Ke3 c2 67. Ke4 Re1+ 68. Kf5 Rgg1 69. Kf4 Rgf1+ 70. Kg3 Re8 71. Kg2 Rf7 72. Kh2 Rg8 73. Kh1 Rh7# { Black wins by checkmate. } 0-1[/pgn]

...I don't know who this warrior fighter of a thousand battles is, but what I do know is that whoever he is, be it a Federated player or a street fighter, he is a giant who makes chess, humans and bots great. Congratulations to "Brewmasterua from Uganda." "The Giant from Uganda."
I think "Uganda" is a joke or a smokescreen because the player has ratings typical of a top fifty GM whereas no one from Uganda has a FIDE rating higher than 2334. But anyway the results show that although no one seems able to compete with LeelaQueenOdds at 1'0", the top players can come out ahead at 1'1", but it probably takes at least a 2800 blitz or 3000 bullet rating to do so.
... A few weeks ago, I wrote that I like one-minute games against computers, because on the part of the computer, we are assured that the level of play of the machine will be superior to that of the human world champion facing us in a classic level of time control competition. Therefore, every one-minute game shows a super-level cybernetic rival. Now, when this super-cybernetic rival faces a strong one-minute human player, the human deploys all his chess knowledge, and therefore the game reveals great depth. When I watch LeelaQueenOdds start the game with her queen down, and also the machine playing a gambit sacrificing pawns, I see a super level of the machine, superior to my wildest manifestation of imagination. A single victory by the one-minute human is more than worth 99 previous defeats, it is of great value. I invite all players who like to play minute by minute, to give us the pleasure of watching them fight like fierce tigers, even if they lose. But also the invitation to face LeelaQueenOddos is epic in 1 minute levels with increment, 3-0 or with increment, and even in longer levels, since, in each time control the science will be the same, only the procedure and terms of application vary. This game that I put in the post, simply for me is epic.

[pgn][Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/vjEaBFXv"]
[Date "2024.12.23"]
[White "LeelaQueenOdds"]
[Black "simplesimpson03"]
[Result "1-0"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.23"]
[UTCTime "01:25:39"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2537"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 Nf6 3. f3 Bf5 4. d3 e6 5. g4 Bg6 6. h4 h5 7. g5 Nfd7 8. Nd2 c5 9. e4 d4 10. Bh3 Nc6 11. f4 Bd6 12. Ne2 Qc7 13. f5 Bh7 14. O-O-O exf5 15. exf5 O-O-O 16. Ne4 Rhe8 17. Kb1 Bf4 18. Nxf4 Qxf4 19. Rde1 Qc7 20. Bc1 f6 21. Re2 Bg8 22. Rhe1 Bd5 23. Bg2 Bxe4 24. Bxe4 Nde5 25. Bf4 Qa5 26. a4 Qb4 27. Ka2 Qc3 28. Rc1 Nb4+ 29. Kb1 Nexd3 30. cxd3 Qxb3+ 31. Rb2 Qxa4 32. Rxc5+ Kd7 33. Rc7# { White wins by checkmate. } 1-0[/pgn]
[pgn][Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/SSXNLQpg"]
[Date "2024.12.23"]
[White "LeelaQueenOdds"]
[Black "simplesimpson03"]
[Result "1-0"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.23"]
[UTCTime "01:28:03"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2537"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 c5 3. d5 e6 4. e4 exd5 5. exd5 d6 6. f3 g6 7. h4 Bg7 8. g4 h5 9. Bg5 Qb6 10. O-O-O hxg4 11. Re1+ Kf8 12. Be2 gxf3 13. Nxf3 Bf5 14. Nd2 Nbd7 15. Nc4 Qc7 16. Nb5 Qb8 17. Bf3 Ne5 18. Nxe5 dxe5 19. d6 Qd8 20. Kb1 e4 21. Be2 a6 22. Nc7 Rc8 23. Rd1 Qd7 24. Rhf1 Ng4 25. Nd5 Ne5 26. Be7+ Kg8 27. h5 gxh5 28. Nb6 Qe8 29. Rxf5 Nc6 30. Nxc8 Qxc8 31. d7 Nxe7 32. dxc8=Q+ Nxc8 33. Rd8+ Kh7 34. Rxh5+ Bh6 35. Rxh6+ Kxh6 36. Rxh8+ { Black resigns. } 1-0[/pgn]
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Uri Blass
Posts: 10693
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Uri Blass »

I see that the knight odd version does not learn from previous experience.

weak players can beat it after enough tries if they simply memorize games that they got a good position and blundered and improve in these games.

see the following game

https://lichess.org/hUsvF2Vc/black

It is not the first time that this player could get the opening 1.d4 e6 2.Bf4 d5 3.Nc3 Bd6 4.Qd2 Bxf4 5.Qxf4 Ne7 6.0-0-0 Qd6 7.Qg5 0-0 8.e4 f5 9.e5 Qd8 10.f4 Ng6 11.Qg3 Qh4 12.Qxh4 Nxh4
Maybe with different order of moves between moves 2 and 3.
See the following games(there may be also previous games and did not check)

https://lichess.org/thl6kQeC/black
https://lichess.org/pmwCLxUG/black
https://lichess.org/jPOq41Cl/black
https://lichess.org/rkCmSFGw/black
https://lichess.org/2FFui1uX/black
https://lichess.org/KJbMlVE2/black
https://lichess.org/PmhSOIKo/black
https://lichess.org/KTANMHyK/black
https://lichess.org/fLiz6F4p/black
lkaufman
Posts: 6143
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Full name: Larry Kaufman

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by lkaufman »

Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 25, 2024 6:24 pm I see that the knight odd version does not learn from previous experience.

weak players can beat it after enough tries if they simply memorize games that they got a good position and blundered and improve in these games.

see the following game

https://lichess.org/hUsvF2Vc/black

It is not the first time that this player could get the opening 1.d4 e6 2.Bf4 d5 3.Nc3 Bd6 4.Qd2 Bxf4 5.Qxf4 Ne7 6.0-0-0 Qd6 7.Qg5 0-0 8.e4 f5 9.e5 Qd8 10.f4 Ng6 11.Qg3 Qh4 12.Qxh4 Nxh4
Maybe with different order of moves between moves 2 and 3.
See the following games(there may be also previous games and did not check)

https://lichess.org/thl6kQeC/black
https://lichess.org/pmwCLxUG/black
https://lichess.org/jPOq41Cl/black
https://lichess.org/rkCmSFGw/black
https://lichess.org/2FFui1uX/black
https://lichess.org/KJbMlVE2/black
https://lichess.org/PmhSOIKo/black
https://lichess.org/KTANMHyK/black
https://lichess.org/fLiz6F4p/black
The bots are not "learning" bots; they get entirely new nets from time to time, and occasionally settings are changed, but other than that the only learning that occurs is by me; I can change book probabilities based on experience. In this particular case I already made changes that will significantly lower the probability of reaching the above move e5 position of the Jobava. We could also raise "temperature" which would lead to more variety in the opening when out of book, at the price of playing more dubious moves. Perhaps we should do that, as the bots (knight and rook odds) are almost unbeatable now by humans who play on LiChess (excluding cheaters) unless they do what you describe above.
Komodo rules!
Father
Posts: 1710
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 25, 2024 6:24 pm I see that the knight odd version does not learn from previous experience.

weak players can beat it after enough tries if they simply memorize games that they got a good position and blundered and improve in these games.

see the following game

https://lichess.org/hUsvF2Vc/black

It is not the first time that this player could get the opening 1.d4 e6 2.Bf4 d5 3.Nc3 Bd6 4.Qd2 Bxf4 5.Qxf4 Ne7 6.0-0-0 Qd6 7.Qg5 0-0 8.e4 f5 9.e5 Qd8 10.f4 Ng6 11.Qg3 Qh4 12.Qxh4 Nxh4
Maybe with different order of moves between moves 2 and 3.
See the following games(there may be also previous games and did not check)

https://lichess.org/thl6kQeC/black
https://lichess.org/pmwCLxUG/black
https://lichess.org/jPOq41Cl/black
https://lichess.org/rkCmSFGw/black
https://lichess.org/2FFui1uX/black
https://lichess.org/KJbMlVE2/black
https://lichess.org/PmhSOIKo/black
https://lichess.org/KTANMHyK/black
https://lichess.org/fLiz6F4p/black
[pgn] Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/27CgeLzQ"]
[Date "2024.12.26"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.26"]
[UTCTime "17:09:22"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 e6 3. g4 c6 4. e3 f5 5. gxf5 exf5 6. f4 Nf6 7. Nf3 Bd6 8. Nc3 Qe7 9. Ne2 Ba3 10. Bxf6 Qxf6 11. c3 Bd6 12. h4 Bd7 13. Kf2 O-O-O 14. b4 Kb8 15. Ned4 Bc8 16. a4 Ka8 17. a5 a6 18. Bd3 g6 19. Rag1 Rhg8 20. Rg2 h5 21. Rhg1 Rg7 22. Rg5 Rdg8 23. Nb3 Ka7 24. Be2 Ka8 25. d4 Ka7 26. Nc1 Ka8 27. Nd3 Ka7 28. Ke1 Ka8 29. Kd2 Ka7 30. Bd1 Ka8 31. Be2 Ka7 32. Bd1 Ka8 33. Nfe5 Ka7 34. Be2 Ka8 35. Bd1 Ka7 36. Rh1 Ka8 37. Be2 Ka7 38. Rh2 Ka8 39. Rh1 Ka7 40. Bf3 Ka8 41. Bd1 Ka7 42. Be2 Ka8 43. Nf3 Ka7 44. Rg2 Ka8 45. Bd1 Ka7 46. Bc2 Ka8 47. Rhg1 Ka7 48. Bd1 Ka8 49. Be2 Ka7 50. Rh1 Ka8 51. Rg5 Ka7 52. Rg3 Ka8 53. Rh2 Ka7 54. Rg1 Ka8 55. Bd1 Ka7 56. Bc2 Ka8 57. Bd1 Ka7 58. Rf2 Ka8 59. Re2 Ka7 60. Ree1 Ka8 61. Rg2 Ka7 62. Be2 Ka8 63. Rg5 Ka7 64. Reg1 Ka8 65. Nfe5 Ka7 66. Bd1 Ka8 67. Be2 Ka7 68. Nf3 Ka8 69. Ke1 Ka7 70. Kf2 Ka8 71. R5g2 Ka7 72. Rg5 Ka8 73. Rc1 Ka7 74. Rh1 Ka8 75. Rg3 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1710
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 6:13 pm
Uri de Blass wrote: Wed Dec 25, 2024 6:24 pm I see that the knight odd version does not learn from previous experience.

weak players can beat it after enough tries if they simply memorize games that they got a good position and blundered and improve in these games.

see the following game

https://lichess.org/hUsvF2Vc/black

It is not the first time that this player could get the opening 1.d4 e6 2.Bf4 d5 3.Nc3 Bd6 4.Qd2 Bxf4 5.Qxf4 Ne7 6.0-0-0 Qd6 7.Qg5 0-0 8.e4 f5 9.e5 Qd8 10.f4 Ng6 11.Qg3 Qh4 12.Qxh4 Nxh4
Maybe with different order of moves between moves 2 and 3.
See the following games(there may be also previous games and did not check)

https://lichess.org/thl6kQeC/black
https://lichess.org/pmwCLxUG/black
https://lichess.org/jPOq41Cl/black
https://lichess.org/rkCmSFGw/black
https://lichess.org/2FFui1uX/black
https://lichess.org/KJbMlVE2/black
https://lichess.org/PmhSOIKo/black
https://lichess.org/KTANMHyK/black
https://lichess.org/fLiz6F4p/black
[pgn] Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/27CgeLzQ"]
[Date "2024.12.26"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.26"]
[UTCTime "17:09:22"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 e6 3. g4 c6 4. e3 f5 5. gxf5 exf5 6. f4 Nf6 7. Nf3 Bd6 8. Nc3 Qe7 9. Ne2 Ba3 10. Bxf6 Qxf6 11. c3 Bd6 12. h4 Bd7 13. Kf2 O-O-O 14. b4 Kb8 15. Ned4 Bc8 16. a4 Ka8 17. a5 a6 18. Bd3 g6 19. Rag1 Rhg8 20. Rg2 h5 21. Rhg1 Rg7 22. Rg5 Rdg8 23. Nb3 Ka7 24. Be2 Ka8 25. d4 Ka7 26. Nc1 Ka8 27. Nd3 Ka7 28. Ke1 Ka8 29. Kd2 Ka7 30. Bd1 Ka8 31. Be2 Ka7 32. Bd1 Ka8 33. Nfe5 Ka7 34. Be2 Ka8 35. Bd1 Ka7 36. Rh1 Ka8 37. Be2 Ka7 38. Rh2 Ka8 39. Rh1 Ka7 40. Bf3 Ka8 41. Bd1 Ka7 42. Be2 Ka8 43. Nf3 Ka7 44. Rg2 Ka8 45. Bd1 Ka7 46. Bc2 Ka8 47. Rhg1 Ka7 48. Bd1 Ka8 49. Be2 Ka7 50. Rh1 Ka8 51. Rg5 Ka7 52. Rg3 Ka8 53. Rh2 Ka7 54. Rg1 Ka8 55. Bd1 Ka7 56. Bc2 Ka8 57. Bd1 Ka7 58. Rf2 Ka8 59. Re2 Ka7 60. Ree1 Ka8 61. Rg2 Ka7 62. Be2 Ka8 63. Rg5 Ka7 64. Reg1 Ka8 65. Nfe5 Ka7 66. Bd1 Ka8 67. Be2 Ka7 68. Nf3 Ka8 69. Ke1 Ka7 70. Kf2 Ka8 71. R5g2 Ka7 72. Rg5 Ka8 73. Rc1 Ka7 74. Rh1 Ka8 75. Rg3 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
[pgn] [Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/2C4ZGhEO"]
[Date "2024.12.27"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.27"]
[UTCTime "01:42:19"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"][/pgn]
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1710
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

Father wrote: Fri Dec 27, 2024 2:48 am
Father wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2024 6:13 pm
Uri de Blass wrote: Wed Dec 25, 2024 6:24 pm I see that the knight odd version does not learn from previous experience.

weak players can beat it after enough tries if they simply memorize games that they got a good position and blundered and improve in these games.

see the following game

https://lichess.org/hUsvF2Vc/black

It is not the first time that this player could get the opening 1.d4 e6 2.Bf4 d5 3.Nc3 Bd6 4.Qd2 Bxf4 5.Qxf4 Ne7 6.0-0-0 Qd6 7.Qg5 0-0 8.e4 f5 9.e5 Qd8 10.f4 Ng6 11.Qg3 Qh4 12.Qxh4 Nxh4
Maybe with different order of moves between moves 2 and 3.
See the following games(there may be also previous games and did not check)

https://lichess.org/thl6kQeC/black
https://lichess.org/pmwCLxUG/black
https://lichess.org/jPOq41Cl/black
https://lichess.org/rkCmSFGw/black
https://lichess.org/2FFui1uX/black
https://lichess.org/KJbMlVE2/black
https://lichess.org/PmhSOIKo/black
https://lichess.org/KTANMHyK/black
https://lichess.org/fLiz6F4p/black
[pgn] Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/27CgeLzQ"]
[Date "2024.12.26"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.26"]
[UTCTime "17:09:22"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. b3 d5 2. Bb2 e6 3. g4 c6 4. e3 f5 5. gxf5 exf5 6. f4 Nf6 7. Nf3 Bd6 8. Nc3 Qe7 9. Ne2 Ba3 10. Bxf6 Qxf6 11. c3 Bd6 12. h4 Bd7 13. Kf2 O-O-O 14. b4 Kb8 15. Ned4 Bc8 16. a4 Ka8 17. a5 a6 18. Bd3 g6 19. Rag1 Rhg8 20. Rg2 h5 21. Rhg1 Rg7 22. Rg5 Rdg8 23. Nb3 Ka7 24. Be2 Ka8 25. d4 Ka7 26. Nc1 Ka8 27. Nd3 Ka7 28. Ke1 Ka8 29. Kd2 Ka7 30. Bd1 Ka8 31. Be2 Ka7 32. Bd1 Ka8 33. Nfe5 Ka7 34. Be2 Ka8 35. Bd1 Ka7 36. Rh1 Ka8 37. Be2 Ka7 38. Rh2 Ka8 39. Rh1 Ka7 40. Bf3 Ka8 41. Bd1 Ka7 42. Be2 Ka8 43. Nf3 Ka7 44. Rg2 Ka8 45. Bd1 Ka7 46. Bc2 Ka8 47. Rhg1 Ka7 48. Bd1 Ka8 49. Be2 Ka7 50. Rh1 Ka8 51. Rg5 Ka7 52. Rg3 Ka8 53. Rh2 Ka7 54. Rg1 Ka8 55. Bd1 Ka7 56. Bc2 Ka8 57. Bd1 Ka7 58. Rf2 Ka8 59. Re2 Ka7 60. Ree1 Ka8 61. Rg2 Ka7 62. Be2 Ka8 63. Rg5 Ka7 64. Reg1 Ka8 65. Nfe5 Ka7 66. Bd1 Ka8 67. Be2 Ka7 68. Nf3 Ka8 69. Ke1 Ka7 70. Kf2 Ka8 71. R5g2 Ka7 72. Rg5 Ka8 73. Rc1 Ka7 74. Rh1 Ka8 75. Rg3 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
[pgn] [Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/2C4ZGhEO"]
[Date "2024.12.27"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.27"]
[UTCTime "01:42:19"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"][/pgn]
[pgn] [Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/2C4ZGhEO"]
[Date "2024.12.27"]
[White "LeelaQueenForKnight"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.27"]
[UTCTime "01:42:19"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "r1bqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. d4 d5 2. Nc3 f5 3. Bf4 e6 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Ne5 c6 6. e3 Bd6 7. h4 O-O 8. h5 Re8 9. h6 g6 10. Be2 Qe7 11. Bg5 a6 12. g4 Rf8 13. f4 Qe8 14. O-O-O Be7 15. Rdg1 Nd7 16. Nf3 Nf6 17. Bxf6 Bxf6 18. Na4 Kh8 19. g5 Be7 20. Kd2 Bd6 21. Rb1 Qe7 22. b4 Bxb4+ 23. c3 Bd6 24. Nb6 Rb8 25. Rb2 Bc7 26. Rhb1 Bxb6 27. Rxb6 Ra8 28. Ne5 Qc7 29. Nd3 Re8 30. a4 Re7 31. a5 Ra7 32. Bd1 Ra8 33. Ba4 Ra7 34. Bb3 Ra8 35. Bd1 Ra7 36. Ba4 Ra8 37. Bb3 Ra7 38. c4 Ra8 39. c5 Ra7 40. Ne5 Ra8 41. Ba4 Ra7 42. Ke2 Ra8 43. Kf2 Ra7 44. Kg3 Ra8 45. Kh4 Ra7 46. Kg3 Ra8 47. Kf3 Ra7 48. Ke2 Ra8 49. Kd3 Ra7 50. Kc3 Ra8 51. Kb4 Ra7 52. Ka3 Ra8 53. R1b2 Ra7 54. Kb4 Ra8 55. Kc3 Ra7 56. Kd2 Ra8 57. Ke2 Ra7 58. Kf2 Ra8 59. Kg3 Ra7 60. Kh4 Ra8 61. Kh3 Ra7 62. Kg3 Ra8 63. Kf3 Ra7 64. Ke2 Ra8 65. Nd3 Ra7 66. Kd2 Ra8 67. Kc3 Ra7 68. Ne5 Ra8 69. Rb1 Ra7 70. Kd2 Ra8 71. Ke2 Ra7 72. Nd3 Ra8 73. Kd2 Ra7 74. Kc3 Ra8 75. Kb4 Ra7 76. Ka3 Ra8 77. Ka2 Ra7 78. Kb2 Ra8 79. Kc2 Ra7 80. Kd2 Ra8 81. Ke2 Ra7 82. Kf2 Ra8 83. Kg2 Ra7 84. Kg3 Ra8 85. Kf2 Ra7 86. Ke2 Ra8 87. Kd2 Ra7 88. Kc3 Ra8 89. Ne5 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1710
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 12:00 am
Father wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 10:23 pm
Father wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:28 am
Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 8:56 am I wondered if people could recently beat the knight odd bot in blitz and the result is that people could do it.

I found that gelyaromanova lost 216-1 with 4 draws against LeelaKnightOdds

lost 20-0 at 1+0
lost 29-0 at 2+0
and finally lost 167-1 with 4 draws at 3+2
[pgn] Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/Nwspg2fA"]
[Date "2024.12.18"]
[White "LeelaKnightOdds"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.18"]
[UTCTime "09:12:48"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. c4 f5 2. Nc3 e6 3. d4 Nf6 4. e3 d5 5. Qc2 c6 6. Bd3 g6 7. b3 Bd6 8. Bb2 Qe7 9. O-O Ba3 10. Bxa3 Qxa3 11. c5 Qa5 12. a4 Qc7 13. b4 a6 14. f4 O-O 15. h3 Rf7 16. b5 Rg7 17. Qf2 Ne8 18. b6 Qe7 19. g4 Nd7 20. g5 Nb8 21. h4 Rf7 22. h5 Ng7 23. h6 Ne8 24. Qg3 Rf8 25. Rab1 Kh8 26. Na2 Rg8 27. Nb4 Qd7 28. a5 Rf8 29. Bc2 Rf7 30. Ba4 Rf8 31. Nd3 Rf7 32. Ne5 Qe7 33. Rb2 Rf8 34. Rfb1 Rf7 35. Bd1 Rf8 36. Qh2 Rf7 37. Kh1 Rf8 38. Qh3 Rf7 39. Nf3 Rf8 40. Ba4 Rf7 41. Ne5 Rf8 42. Rg1 Rf7 43. Rh2 Rf8 44. Rb2 Rf7 45. Rh2 Rf8 46. Rb1 Rf7 47. Nxf7+ Qxf7 48. Rhb2 Qe7 49. e4 fxe4 50. Qg3 Kg8 51. Rb3 Kh8 52. Kg2 Kg8 53. Kf2 Kh8 54. Ke1 Kg8 55. R3b2 Kh8 56. Kd2 Kg8 57. Kc2 Kh8 58. Qc3 Kg8 59. Kb3 Kh8 60. Ka3 Kg8 61. Ka2 Kh8 62. Ka1 Kg8 63. Qb3 Kh8 64. Qg3 Kg8 65. Rc2 Kh8 66. Kb2 Kg8 67. Kc1 Kh8 68. Kd1 Kg8 69. Ke1 Kh8 70. Rcb2 Kg8 71. Kf1 Kh8 72. Kg1 Kg8 73. Rf1 Kh8 74. Rbf2 Kg8 75. Bd1 Kh8 76. Bg4 Kg8 77. Qh3 Kh8 78. Kh1 Kg8 79. Rg1 Kh8 80. Rg3 Kg8 81. Re3 Kh8 82. Re1 Kg8 83. Ref1 Kh8 84. Qg3 Kg8 85. Kg1 Kh8 86. Qh3 Kg8 87. Kh1 Kh8 88. Qg3 Kg8 89. Qh3 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

Good morning Uri, I hope you are well and continue to be well.
Uri. LeelaKnightOdds is like a wild horse; You ride him and he throws you on the ground again and again, then you get to know him, you make the horse ride, trot and run, finally you tame him, and he eats from your hand.
... how strange ... I have seen that the number of matches of the best players against LeelaQueenOdds has decreased? Also in bullet controls there are fewer Masters... what reason could there be for the lack of enthusiasm? I also note that the Top 100 position table has not been updated... how sad all this is...
I think that some interested has shifted back from queen odds to knight odds and rook odds. My guess is that many 2800+ bullet players have given up; their goal was probably to make a plus score at 1'0" at queen odds, but no one can do it so far, maybe Magnus or Hikaru might have a chance, but as far as we know they haven't tried. But it remains a good way to practice/improve bullet skills, so I expect we'll still see a reasonable number of such players playing the bot from time to time.
...life is like a chain of new experiences and knowledge
It seems here we have learned that LeelaQueenOdds has been stronger and more powerful than some elite players expected.
So they have preferred to step aside. But history has already been written and what is written is written. To achieve leadership or a good position in the table of the top 100 humans who face the robot, it is not enough to be an advanced player, it is also required to understand that we are facing a computer with all that this means.
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
lkaufman
Posts: 6143
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:15 am
Location: Maryland USA
Full name: Larry Kaufman

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by lkaufman »

Father wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:26 am
lkaufman wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 12:00 am
Father wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 10:23 pm
Father wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:28 am
Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 8:56 am I wondered if people could recently beat the knight odd bot in blitz and the result is that people could do it.

I found that gelyaromanova lost 216-1 with 4 draws against LeelaKnightOdds

lost 20-0 at 1+0
lost 29-0 at 2+0
and finally lost 167-1 with 4 draws at 3+2
[pgn] Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/Nwspg2fA"]
[Date "2024.12.18"]
[White "LeelaKnightOdds"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.18"]
[UTCTime "09:12:48"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. c4 f5 2. Nc3 e6 3. d4 Nf6 4. e3 d5 5. Qc2 c6 6. Bd3 g6 7. b3 Bd6 8. Bb2 Qe7 9. O-O Ba3 10. Bxa3 Qxa3 11. c5 Qa5 12. a4 Qc7 13. b4 a6 14. f4 O-O 15. h3 Rf7 16. b5 Rg7 17. Qf2 Ne8 18. b6 Qe7 19. g4 Nd7 20. g5 Nb8 21. h4 Rf7 22. h5 Ng7 23. h6 Ne8 24. Qg3 Rf8 25. Rab1 Kh8 26. Na2 Rg8 27. Nb4 Qd7 28. a5 Rf8 29. Bc2 Rf7 30. Ba4 Rf8 31. Nd3 Rf7 32. Ne5 Qe7 33. Rb2 Rf8 34. Rfb1 Rf7 35. Bd1 Rf8 36. Qh2 Rf7 37. Kh1 Rf8 38. Qh3 Rf7 39. Nf3 Rf8 40. Ba4 Rf7 41. Ne5 Rf8 42. Rg1 Rf7 43. Rh2 Rf8 44. Rb2 Rf7 45. Rh2 Rf8 46. Rb1 Rf7 47. Nxf7+ Qxf7 48. Rhb2 Qe7 49. e4 fxe4 50. Qg3 Kg8 51. Rb3 Kh8 52. Kg2 Kg8 53. Kf2 Kh8 54. Ke1 Kg8 55. R3b2 Kh8 56. Kd2 Kg8 57. Kc2 Kh8 58. Qc3 Kg8 59. Kb3 Kh8 60. Ka3 Kg8 61. Ka2 Kh8 62. Ka1 Kg8 63. Qb3 Kh8 64. Qg3 Kg8 65. Rc2 Kh8 66. Kb2 Kg8 67. Kc1 Kh8 68. Kd1 Kg8 69. Ke1 Kh8 70. Rcb2 Kg8 71. Kf1 Kh8 72. Kg1 Kg8 73. Rf1 Kh8 74. Rbf2 Kg8 75. Bd1 Kh8 76. Bg4 Kg8 77. Qh3 Kh8 78. Kh1 Kg8 79. Rg1 Kh8 80. Rg3 Kg8 81. Re3 Kh8 82. Re1 Kg8 83. Ref1 Kh8 84. Qg3 Kg8 85. Kg1 Kh8 86. Qh3 Kg8 87. Kh1 Kh8 88. Qg3 Kg8 89. Qh3 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

Good morning Uri, I hope you are well and continue to be well.
Uri. LeelaKnightOdds is like a wild horse; You ride him and he throws you on the ground again and again, then you get to know him, you make the horse ride, trot and run, finally you tame him, and he eats from your hand.
... how strange ... I have seen that the number of matches of the best players against LeelaQueenOdds has decreased? Also in bullet controls there are fewer Masters... what reason could there be for the lack of enthusiasm? I also note that the Top 100 position table has not been updated... how sad all this is...
I think that some interested has shifted back from queen odds to knight odds and rook odds. My guess is that many 2800+ bullet players have given up; their goal was probably to make a plus score at 1'0" at queen odds, but no one can do it so far, maybe Magnus or Hikaru might have a chance, but as far as we know they haven't tried. But it remains a good way to practice/improve bullet skills, so I expect we'll still see a reasonable number of such players playing the bot from time to time.
...life is like a chain of new experiences and knowledge
It seems here we have learned that LeelaQueenOdds has been stronger and more powerful than some elite players expected.
So they have preferred to step aside. But history has already been written and what is written is written. To achieve leadership or a good position in the table of the top 100 humans who face the robot, it is not enough to be an advanced player, it is also required to understand that we are facing a computer with all that this means.
I don't think that is necessary, although it works for you. It is sufficient to understand that the opponent is vastly stronger, and that we only need to simplify the position and avoid complications, although this is much easier said that done, especially at the smaller handicaps. Whether the opponent is a machine or some alien or super-human doesn't matter, it is the strength that matters. Top players know to simplify when winning, and they would dominate the top of the list if they played blitz rather than bullet queen odds. But it seems they like to challenge themselves.
Komodo rules!
Father
Posts: 1710
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:18 pm
Father wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:26 am
lkaufman wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 12:00 am
Father wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 10:23 pm
Father wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:28 am
Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 8:56 am I wondered if people could recently beat the knight odd bot in blitz and the result is that people could do it.

I found that gelyaromanova lost 216-1 with 4 draws against LeelaKnightOdds

lost 20-0 at 1+0
lost 29-0 at 2+0
and finally lost 167-1 with 4 draws at 3+2
[pgn] Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/Nwspg2fA"]
[Date "2024.12.18"]
[White "LeelaKnightOdds"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.18"]
[UTCTime "09:12:48"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. c4 f5 2. Nc3 e6 3. d4 Nf6 4. e3 d5 5. Qc2 c6 6. Bd3 g6 7. b3 Bd6 8. Bb2 Qe7 9. O-O Ba3 10. Bxa3 Qxa3 11. c5 Qa5 12. a4 Qc7 13. b4 a6 14. f4 O-O 15. h3 Rf7 16. b5 Rg7 17. Qf2 Ne8 18. b6 Qe7 19. g4 Nd7 20. g5 Nb8 21. h4 Rf7 22. h5 Ng7 23. h6 Ne8 24. Qg3 Rf8 25. Rab1 Kh8 26. Na2 Rg8 27. Nb4 Qd7 28. a5 Rf8 29. Bc2 Rf7 30. Ba4 Rf8 31. Nd3 Rf7 32. Ne5 Qe7 33. Rb2 Rf8 34. Rfb1 Rf7 35. Bd1 Rf8 36. Qh2 Rf7 37. Kh1 Rf8 38. Qh3 Rf7 39. Nf3 Rf8 40. Ba4 Rf7 41. Ne5 Rf8 42. Rg1 Rf7 43. Rh2 Rf8 44. Rb2 Rf7 45. Rh2 Rf8 46. Rb1 Rf7 47. Nxf7+ Qxf7 48. Rhb2 Qe7 49. e4 fxe4 50. Qg3 Kg8 51. Rb3 Kh8 52. Kg2 Kg8 53. Kf2 Kh8 54. Ke1 Kg8 55. R3b2 Kh8 56. Kd2 Kg8 57. Kc2 Kh8 58. Qc3 Kg8 59. Kb3 Kh8 60. Ka3 Kg8 61. Ka2 Kh8 62. Ka1 Kg8 63. Qb3 Kh8 64. Qg3 Kg8 65. Rc2 Kh8 66. Kb2 Kg8 67. Kc1 Kh8 68. Kd1 Kg8 69. Ke1 Kh8 70. Rcb2 Kg8 71. Kf1 Kh8 72. Kg1 Kg8 73. Rf1 Kh8 74. Rbf2 Kg8 75. Bd1 Kh8 76. Bg4 Kg8 77. Qh3 Kh8 78. Kh1 Kg8 79. Rg1 Kh8 80. Rg3 Kg8 81. Re3 Kh8 82. Re1 Kg8 83. Ref1 Kh8 84. Qg3 Kg8 85. Kg1 Kh8 86. Qh3 Kg8 87. Kh1 Kh8 88. Qg3 Kg8 89. Qh3 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

Good morning Uri, I hope you are well and continue to be well.
Uri. LeelaKnightOdds is like a wild horse; You ride him and he throws you on the ground again and again, then you get to know him, you make the horse ride, trot and run, finally you tame him, and he eats from your hand.
... how strange ... I have seen that the number of matches of the best players against LeelaQueenOdds has decreased? Also in bullet controls there are fewer Masters... what reason could there be for the lack of enthusiasm? I also note that the Top 100 position table has not been updated... how sad all this is...
I think that some interested has shifted back from queen odds to knight odds and rook odds. My guess is that many 2800+ bullet players have given up; their goal was probably to make a plus score at 1'0" at queen odds, but no one can do it so far, maybe Magnus or Hikaru might have a chance, but as far as we know they haven't tried. But it remains a good way to practice/improve bullet skills, so I expect we'll still see a reasonable number of such players playing the bot from time to time.
...life is like a chain of new experiences and knowledge
It seems here we have learned that LeelaQueenOdds has been stronger and more powerful than some elite players expected.
So they have preferred to step aside. But history has already been written and what is written is written. To achieve leadership or a good position in the table of the top 100 humans who face the robot, it is not enough to be an advanced player, it is also required to understand that we are facing a computer with all that this means.
I don't think that is necessary, although it works for you. It is sufficient to understand that the opponent is vastly stronger, and that we only need to simplify the position and avoid complications, although this is much easier said that done, especially at the smaller handicaps. Whether the opponent is a machine or some alien or super-human doesn't matter, it is the strength that matters. Top players know to simplify when winning, and they would dominate the top of the list if they played blitz rather than bullet queen odds. But it seems they like to challenge themselves.
[pgn] [Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/q2bZs6yx"]
[Date "2025.01.06"]
[White "LeelaQueenOdds"]
[Black "xiaochess"]
[Result "0-1"]
[UTCDate "2025.01.06"]
[UTCTime "07:49:36"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "3105"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[BlackTitle "GM"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNB1KBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. e3 Nc6 2. d4 d5 3. c4 Nf6 4. Nf3 Bg4 5. Ne5 Nxe5 6. dxe5 Nd7 7. cxd5 Nxe5 8. Nc3 e6 9. f3 Nxf3+ 10. gxf3 Bxf3 11. Rg1 Qh4+ 12. Rg3 Bxd5 13. e4 Bc6 14. Bg5 Qxh2 15. Rg2 Qe5 16. O-O-O Be7 17. Be3 Bf6 18. Re1 O-O-O 19. Bg1 Qa5 20. Rc2 Bxc3 21. Rxc3 Bb5 22. Kb1 Bxf1 23. Rxf1 Rd7 24. Rfc1 Rhd8 25. Rc5 Qa6 26. Bh2 c6 27. Bf4 Rd1 28. a3 Rxc1+ 29. Bxc1 Qd3+ 30. Ka2 Qxe4 31. Rc3 Rd3 32. Rc2 Qd5+ 33. Kb1 Rd1 34. Rc3 Qe4+ 35. Ka2 Qd5+ 36. Kb1 h5 37. Kc2 h4 38. a4 h3 39. Rxh3 Qf5+ 40. Kxd1 Qxh3 41. Kc2 g5 42. Bxg5 Qf5+ 43. Kc3 Qxg5 44. Kd3 f5 45. a5 Qg3+ 46. Kc2 f4 47. a6 f3 48. axb7+ Kxb7 49. Kd3 f2+ 50. Ke2 Qg2 51. Kd3 f1=Q+ 52. Kc3 Qff3+ 53. Kb4 Qgg4+ 54. Ka5 Qd5# { Black wins by checkmate. } 0-1[/pgn]

...there are two expressions in my native language that denote hope; one expresses like this: "The last thing that is lost is hope; The other: "My soul fell into my body." Seeing this game against LeelaQueenOdds I can see that the Grand Masters have not left and they can return. "In time good."
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.
Father
Posts: 1710
Joined: Sun Mar 19, 2006 4:39 am
Location: Colombia
Full name: Pablo Ignacio Restrepo

Re: Amazing results of LeelaKnightOdds-Dev

Post by Father »

lkaufman wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:18 pm
Father wrote: Sat Dec 28, 2024 6:26 am
lkaufman wrote: Sun Dec 22, 2024 12:00 am
Father wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2024 10:23 pm
Father wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 10:28 am
Uri Blass wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 8:56 am I wondered if people could recently beat the knight odd bot in blitz and the result is that people could do it.

I found that gelyaromanova lost 216-1 with 4 draws against LeelaKnightOdds

lost 20-0 at 1+0
lost 29-0 at 2+0
and finally lost 167-1 with 4 draws at 3+2
[pgn] Event "Casual bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/Nwspg2fA"]
[Date "2024.12.18"]
[White "LeelaKnightOdds"]
[Black "Catecan"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[UTCDate "2024.12.18"]
[UTCTime "09:12:48"]
[WhiteElo "2000"]
[BlackElo "2030"]
[WhiteTitle "BOT"]
[Variant "From Position"]
[TimeControl "60+0"]
[ECO "?"]
[Opening "?"]
[Termination "Normal"]
[FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKB1R w KQkq - 0 1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[Annotator "lichess.org"]

1. c4 f5 2. Nc3 e6 3. d4 Nf6 4. e3 d5 5. Qc2 c6 6. Bd3 g6 7. b3 Bd6 8. Bb2 Qe7 9. O-O Ba3 10. Bxa3 Qxa3 11. c5 Qa5 12. a4 Qc7 13. b4 a6 14. f4 O-O 15. h3 Rf7 16. b5 Rg7 17. Qf2 Ne8 18. b6 Qe7 19. g4 Nd7 20. g5 Nb8 21. h4 Rf7 22. h5 Ng7 23. h6 Ne8 24. Qg3 Rf8 25. Rab1 Kh8 26. Na2 Rg8 27. Nb4 Qd7 28. a5 Rf8 29. Bc2 Rf7 30. Ba4 Rf8 31. Nd3 Rf7 32. Ne5 Qe7 33. Rb2 Rf8 34. Rfb1 Rf7 35. Bd1 Rf8 36. Qh2 Rf7 37. Kh1 Rf8 38. Qh3 Rf7 39. Nf3 Rf8 40. Ba4 Rf7 41. Ne5 Rf8 42. Rg1 Rf7 43. Rh2 Rf8 44. Rb2 Rf7 45. Rh2 Rf8 46. Rb1 Rf7 47. Nxf7+ Qxf7 48. Rhb2 Qe7 49. e4 fxe4 50. Qg3 Kg8 51. Rb3 Kh8 52. Kg2 Kg8 53. Kf2 Kh8 54. Ke1 Kg8 55. R3b2 Kh8 56. Kd2 Kg8 57. Kc2 Kh8 58. Qc3 Kg8 59. Kb3 Kh8 60. Ka3 Kg8 61. Ka2 Kh8 62. Ka1 Kg8 63. Qb3 Kh8 64. Qg3 Kg8 65. Rc2 Kh8 66. Kb2 Kg8 67. Kc1 Kh8 68. Kd1 Kg8 69. Ke1 Kh8 70. Rcb2 Kg8 71. Kf1 Kh8 72. Kg1 Kg8 73. Rf1 Kh8 74. Rbf2 Kg8 75. Bd1 Kh8 76. Bg4 Kg8 77. Qh3 Kh8 78. Kh1 Kg8 79. Rg1 Kh8 80. Rg3 Kg8 81. Re3 Kh8 82. Re1 Kg8 83. Ref1 Kh8 84. Qg3 Kg8 85. Kg1 Kh8 86. Qh3 Kg8 87. Kh1 Kh8 88. Qg3 Kg8 89. Qh3 { The game is a draw. } 1/2-1/2[/pgn]

Good morning Uri, I hope you are well and continue to be well.
Uri. LeelaKnightOdds is like a wild horse; You ride him and he throws you on the ground again and again, then you get to know him, you make the horse ride, trot and run, finally you tame him, and he eats from your hand.
... how strange ... I have seen that the number of matches of the best players against LeelaQueenOdds has decreased? Also in bullet controls there are fewer Masters... what reason could there be for the lack of enthusiasm? I also note that the Top 100 position table has not been updated... how sad all this is...
I think that some interested has shifted back from queen odds to knight odds and rook odds. My guess is that many 2800+ bullet players have given up; their goal was probably to make a plus score at 1'0" at queen odds, but no one can do it so far, maybe Magnus or Hikaru might have a chance, but as far as we know they haven't tried. But it remains a good way to practice/improve bullet skills, so I expect we'll still see a reasonable number of such players playing the bot from time to time.
...life is like a chain of new experiences and knowledge
It seems here we have learned that LeelaQueenOdds has been stronger and more powerful than some elite players expected.
So they have preferred to step aside. But history has already been written and what is written is written. To achieve leadership or a good position in the table of the top 100 humans who face the robot, it is not enough to be an advanced player, it is also required to understand that we are facing a computer with all that this means.
I don't think that is necessary, although it works for you. It is sufficient to understand that the opponent is vastly stronger, and that we only need to simplify the position and avoid complications, although this is much easier said that done, especially at the smaller handicaps. Whether the opponent is a machine or some alien or super-human doesn't matter, it is the strength that matters. Top players know to simplify when winning, and they would dominate the top of the list if they played blitz rather than bullet queen odds. But it seems they like to challenge themselves.
Good evening Mr. Larey Kaufman and Mr. Marcogio9.
I hope you are well and continue well.
I wish you a very good year 2025.
I would like to ask something...
Since the last elo calculation of the top 100 of Leelaqueenodds, I have played driving the black chips, the modest amount of 1269 fights; I have been getting an idea of ​​the
reach the program, knowing little about
little their actions and reactions. I have been improving the percentage of points step by step, I usually play 100 games a day, although sometimes they are more or less. Today, for example, I have played 4 games and my performance is 50% tied, I have played 4 games, I have lost 2 and tied 2. But I usually stabilize at more or less 16%. I think I can improve, my human strategic memory is improving... I am worried about a series of encounters between players that "crush Leela" but the way of playing seems very implausible and could distort the table... I am also worried about the absence of GM and strong players, I don't know if they have become frustrated. It's good that the bulls returned to the bullring to compete...
I am thinking chess is in a coin.Human beings for ever playing in one face.Now I am playing in the other face:"Antichess". Computers are as a fortres where owner forgot to close a little door behind. You must enter across this door.Forget the front.