Where are the sources for Rebel and the newer CSTal if ...

[Damir]

From what I found on the internet:

Toga IV and Rebel: In 2022, it was noted that the next version of the Rebel chess engine would be based on "improved Toga source code".

Rebel 14 NNUE: This indicates that Toga, in its Toga IV iteration, had incorporated the NNUE evaluation from Rebel 14, creating a new variant called Toga IV with Rebel 14 NNUE.¨

I don't know if any of this is truth.

It was AI research who came up with.

[Peter Berger]

Same for CSTal!
If the _newer_ CSTal, created in Corona times ... based on Toga / Fruit.
Sources from CSTal are available, not for the newer CSTal EAS!

Perhaps there are also reasons?

Best
Frank

Per usual it is hard to guess what you understand and what you don't.

CSTal is not based on Toga/Fruit at all according to its author(s) in any released version. If you disagree, it would be on you to provide evidence. And better do a good job as else this would be libel.

There was a Rebel version based on Toga code - released open source.

Later Rebel versions didn't use Toga code anymore.

This should be simple enough to understand for you to back down, maybe with some apology, shouldn't it?

[Damir]

https://rebel13.nl/windows/rebel-14.html

Technical

Rebel 14 consists of 4 parts,

1. The famous Fruit 2.1 engine from 2004 by Fabien Letouzey, elo ~2700

2. Growing Fruit by Pawel Koziol improving the Fruit search, elo ~2800 making it about equal in strength with ProDeo 3.1

3. Replacing the Fruit evaluation with Benjamin 1.1 NNUE evaluation.

4. NNUE code to excecute the Benjamin NN evaluation by Chris Whittington.

Rebel 14 contained some part of Fruit source. But that engine was released 3-4 years ago.

Later Rebel engines contained no part of Fruit source.

[mclane]

Per usual it is hard to guess what you understand and what you don't.

CSTal is not based on Toga/Fruit at all according to its author(s) in any released version. If you disagree, it would be on you to provide evidence. And better do a good job as else this would be libel.

There was a Rebel version based on Toga code - released open source.

Later Rebel versions didn't use Toga code anymore.

This should be simple enough to understand for you to back down, maybe with some apology, shouldn't it?

That was also my consideration. But I was insulted as "fan-boy". He did not insult you. Be happy

[Juan P. Naar]

https://rebel13.nl/windows/rebel-14.html

Technical

Rebel 14 consists of 4 parts,

1. The famous Fruit 2.1 engine from 2004 by Fabien Letouzey, elo ~2700

2. Growing Fruit by Pawel Koziol improving the Fruit search, elo ~2800 making it about equal in strength with ProDeo 3.1

3. Replacing the Fruit evaluation with Benjamin 1.1 NNUE evaluation.

4. NNUE code to excecute the Benjamin NN evaluation by Chris Whittington.

Rebel 14 contained some part of Fruit source. But that engine was released 3-4 years ago.

Later Rebel engines contained no part of Fruit source.

Any idea where to download this "Growing Fruit by Pawel Koziol" engine? Tried searching online but no luck

EDIT: Found it, although there are no compiles:
https://github.com/nescitus/growing_fruit

[chessica]

[d]5k2/pp3N2/5K2/5B2/8/8/8/8 w - - 0 1

GrowingFruit 0.022:
...
19/38 00:02,406 9.973k 4.145k +7,74 Lf5-d7 a7-a5 Sf7-g5 a5-a4 Ld7xa4 b7-b5 La4xb5 Kf8-g8 Lb5-c6 Kg8-f8 Sg5-h7+ Kf8-g8 Lc6-e4 Kg8-h8 Le4-d3 Kh8-g8 Sh7-g5 Kg8-f8 Sg5-e6+ Kf8-g8 Ld3-e4 Kg8-h8
20/38 00:04,484 19.486k 4.346k +7,74 Lf5-d7 a7-a5 Sf7-g5 a5-a4 Ld7xa4 b7-b5 La4xb5 Kf8-g8 Lb5-c6 Kg8-f8 Sg5-h7+ Kf8-g8 Lc6-e4 Kg8-h8 Le4-d3 Kh8-g8 Sh7-g5 Kg8-f8 Sg5-e6+ Kf8-g8 Ld3-g6 Kg8-h8 Lg6-e4
21/40 00:07,093 31.797k 4.483k +M9 Lf5-d7 b7-b5 Ld7xb5 a7-a5 Sf7-g5 a5-a4 Sg5-h7+ Kf8-g8 Kf6-g6 a4-a3 Lb5-c4+ Kg8-h8 Sh7-f8 a3-a2 Kg6-h6 a2-a1D Sf8-g6+
22/40 00:07,890 35.892k 4.549k +M9 Lf5-d7 b7-b5 Ld7xb5 a7-a5 Sf7-g5 a5-a4 Sg5-h7+ Kf8-g8 Kf6-g6 a4-a3 Lb5-c4+ Kg8-h8 Sh7-f8 a3-a2 Kg6-h6 a2-a1D Sf8-g6+
23/40 00:08,953 41.896k 4.680k +M9 Lf5-d7 b7-b5 Ld7xb5 a7-a5 Sf7-g5 a5-a4 Sg5-h7+ Kf8-g8 Kf6-g6 a4-a3 Lb5-c4+ Kg8-h8 Sh7-f8 a3-a2 Kg6-h6 a2-a1D Sf8-g6+
24/40 00:10,453 51.029k 4.882k +M9 Lf5-d7 b7-b5 Ld7xb5 a7-a5 Sf7-g5 a5-a4 Sg5-h7+ Kf8-g8 Kf6-g6 a4-a3 Lb5-c4+ Kg8-h8 Sh7-f8 a3-a2 Kg6-h6 a2-a1D Sf8-g6+
Bester Zug: Lf5-d7, Wert: +Matt in 9, Tiefe: 24/40, Dauer: 00:10,745, 52.500.000 Knoten, 4.898k

[d]7k/5pp1/8/8/8/8/1K6/R7 w - - 0 1

GrowingFruit 0.022:
...
34/50 01:15,875 514.631k 6.783k +6,17 Kb2-c3 Kh8-h7 Kc3-d4 Kh7-g6 Kd4-e5 f7-f6+ Ke5-e6 Kg6-g5 Ta1-g1+ Kg5-f4 Tg1xg7 f6-f5 Tg7-f7 Kf4-e4 Tf7xf5 Ke4-d4 Tf5-f4+ Kd4-e3 Ke6-e5 Ke3-d3 Tf4-d4+ Kd3-e3 Td4-e4+ Ke3-d3 Ke5-d5 Kd3-c3 Te4-e3+ Kc3-b4 Te3-g3 Kb4-b5 Tg3-b3+ Kb5-a5 Kd5-c4 Ka5-a6 Kc4-c5 Ka6-a7 Tb3-e3 Ka7-b7 Te3-e7+ Kb7-c8 Kc5-d4 Kc8-d8
35/50 01:25,672 577.997k 6.747k +6,26 Kb2-c3 Kh8-h7 Kc3-d4 Kh7-g6 Kd4-e5 f7-f6+ Ke5-e6 Kg6-g5 Ta1-g1+ Kg5-f4 Tg1xg7 f6-f5 Tg7-f7 Kf4-e4 Tf7xf5 Ke4-d4 Tf5-f4+ Kd4-e3 Ke6-e5 Ke3-d3 Tf4-d4+ Kd3-e3 Td4-e4+ Ke3-d3 Ke5-d5 Kd3-c3 Te4-e3+ Kc3-b4 Te3-g3 Kb4-b5 Tg3-b3+ Kb5-a4 Tb3-b8 Ka4-a5 Kd5-c5 Ka5-a4 Tb8-b4+ Ka4-a3 Kc5-c4 Ka3-a2 Tb4-b3 Ka2-a1 Kc4-d4
36/54 43:39,344 32.037.323k 12.231k +M23 Kb2-c3 Kh8-g8 Kc3-d4 f7-f6 Kd4-e4 Kg8-f7 Ta1-a7+ Kf7-e6 Ta7xg7 f6-f5+ Ke4-f4 Ke6-f6 Tg7-a7 Kf6-e6 Ta7-a6+ Ke6-d5 Ta6-a5+ Kd5-e6 Ta5-e5+ Ke6-d6 Kf4xf5 Kd6-c7 Te5-d5 Kc7-b7 Kf5-f6 Kb7-b6 Kf6-e6 Kb6-c6 Td5-g5 Kc6-c7 Tg5-c5+ Kc7-b7 Ke6-d5 Kb7-b6 Kd5-d6 Kb6-b7 Tc5-b5+ Kb7-a6 Kd6-c6 Ka6-a7 Tb5-a5+ Ka7-b8 Ta5-a1 Kb8-c8 Ta1-a8+
37/54 48:31,515 35.721.168k 12.269k +M22 Kb2-c3 Kh8-g8 Kc3-d4 f7-f6 Kd4-e4 Kg8-f7 Ta1-a7+ Kf7-e6 Ta7xg7 f6-f5+ Ke4-f4 Ke6-d5 Kf4xf5 Kd5-d6 Tg7-g3 Kd6-d5 Tg3-d3+ Kd5-c4 Kf5-e4 Kc4-c5 Td3-d5+ Kc5-c4 Td5-f5 Kc4-c3 Tf5-c5+ Kc3-d2 Ke4-d4 Kd2-e2 Tc5-f5 Ke2-d2 Tf5-f2+ Kd2-d1 Kd4-d3 Kd1-c1 Tf2-e2 Kc1-b1 Te2-c2 Kb1-a1 Kd3-c4 Ka1-b1 Kc4-b3 Kb1-a1 Tc2-c1+
38/54 48:40,437 35.781.183k 12.252k +M22 Kb2-c3 Kh8-g8 Kc3-d4 f7-f6 Kd4-e4 Kg8-f7 Ta1-a7+ Kf7-e6 Ta7xg7 f6-f5+ Ke4-f4 Ke6-d5 Kf4xf5 Kd5-d6 Tg7-g3 Kd6-d5 Tg3-d3+ Kd5-c4 Kf5-e4 Kc4-c5 Td3-d5+ Kc5-c4 Td5-f5 Kc4-c3 Tf5-c5+ Kc3-b4 Ke4-d4 Kb4-b3 Tc5-c8 Kb3-b4 Tc8-b8+ Kb4-a5 Kd4-c5 Ka5-a4 Tb8-b7 Ka4-a3 Kc5-c4 Ka3-a2 Kc4-c3 Ka2-a1 Kc3-c2 Ka1-a2 Tb7-a7+
39/54 51:13,125 36.784.244k 11.970k +M22 Kb2-c3 Kh8-h7 Kc3-d4 Kh7-g6 Kd4-e5 f7-f6+ Ke5-e6 Kg6-g5 Ta1-g1+ Kg5-f4 Tg1xg7 f6-f5 Tg7-f7 Kf4-e4 Tf7xf5 Ke4-d4 Tf5-e5 Kd4-c4 Te5-e4+ Kc4-c3 Ke6-e5 Kc3-d3 Ke5-d5 Kd3-c3 Te4-e3+ Kc3-d2 Kd5-d4 Kd2-c2 Te3-e4 Kc2-d2 Kd4-c4 Kd2-c2 Te4-e2+ Kc2-d1 Kc4-d3 Kd1-c1 Kd3-c3 Kc1-b1 Te2-e3 Kb1-a2 Kc3-c2 Ka2-a1 Te3-a3+
40/54 54:57,203 38.310.606k 11.619k +M22 Kb2-c3 Kh8-h7 Kc3-d4 Kh7-g6 Kd4-e5 f7-f6+ Ke5-e6 Kg6-g5 Ta1-g1+ Kg5-f4 Tg1xg7 f6-f5 Tg7-f7 Kf4-e4 Tf7xf5 Ke4-d4 Tf5-e5 Kd4-c4 Te5-e4+ Kc4-c3 Ke6-e5 Kc3-d3 Ke5-d5 Kd3-c3 Te4-e3+ Kc3-d2 Kd5-d4 Kd2-c2 Te3-e4 Kc2-d2 Kd4-c4 Kd2-c2 Te4-e2+ Kc2-d1 Kc4-d3 Kd1-c1 Kd3-c3 Kc1-b1 Te2-e3 Kb1-a2 Kc3-c2 Ka2-a1 Te3-a3+
41/54 1:01:31,469 40.757.210k 11.041k +M22 Kb2-c3 Kh8-h7 Kc3-d4 Kh7-g6 Kd4-e5 f7-f6+ Ke5-e6 Kg6-g5 Ta1-g1+ Kg5-f4 Tg1xg7 f6-f5 Tg7-f7 Kf4-e4 Tf7xf5 Ke4-d4 Tf5-e5 Kd4-c4 Te5-e4+ Kc4-c3 Ke6-e5 Kc3-d3 Ke5-d5 Kd3-c3 Te4-e3+ Kc3-d2 Kd5-d4 Kd2-c2 Te3-e4 Kc2-d2 Kd4-c4 Kd2-c2 Te4-e2+ Kc2-d1 Kc4-d3 Kd1-c1 Kd3-c3 Kc1-b1 Te2-e3 Kb1-a2 Kc3-c2 Ka2-a1 Te3-a3+
42/54 1:12:07,609 44.717.743k 10.333k +M21 Kb2-c3 Kh8-h7 Kc3-d4 Kh7-g6 Kd4-e5 f7-f6+ Ke5-e6 Kg6-g5 Ta1-g1+ Kg5-f4 Tg1xg7 f6-f5 Tg7-b7 Kf4-e3 Ke6xf5 Ke3-d4 Tb7-d7+ Kd4-c4 Kf5-e5 Kc4-c5 Td7-d4 Kc5-c6 Td4-c4+ Kc6-d7 Tc4-c3 Kd7-e7 Tc3-c7+ Ke7-d8 Ke5-d6 Kd8-e8 Tc7-e7+ Ke8-f8 Kd6-d7 Kf8-g8 Kd7-e8 Kg8-h8 Ke8-f7 Kh8-h7 Te7-e6 Kh7-h8 Te6-h6+
42/54 1:29:01,531 51.702.487k 9.679k +M19 Ta1-a7 Kh8-g8 Kb2-c3 f7-f5 Kc3-d4 f5-f4 Kd4-e4 f4-f3 Ke4xf3 Kg8-h7 Kf3-g4 Kh7-g6 Ta7-a6+ Kg6-f7 Kg4-f5 Kf7-e7 Kf5-g6 Ke7-d7 Kg6xg7 Kd7-e7 Ta6-f6 Ke7-d7 Kg7-f8 Kd7-c8 Kf8-e8 Kc8-c7 Ke8-e7 Kc7-b8 Ke7-d6 Kb8-b7 Kd6-d7 Kb7-a8 Tf6-b6 Ka8-a7 Kd7-c7 Ka7-a8 Tb6-a6+
43/54 1:34:07,078 53.806.618k 9.528k +M18 Ta1-a7 Kh8-g8 Kb2-c3 f7-f5 Kc3-d4 f5-f4 Kd4-e4 g7-g5 Ta7-a5 Kg8-f8 Ta5xg5 Kf8-e7 Ke4xf4 Ke7-d6 Tg5-e5 Kd6-c6 Kf4-f5 Kc6-d7 Te5-e6 Kd7-d8 Kf5-f6 Kd8-d7 Kf6-f7 Kd7-c8 Te6-e7 Kc8-b8 Kf7-e6 Kb8-a8 Ke6-d6 Ka8-b8 Kd6-c6 Kb8-a8 Kc6-b6 Ka8-b8 Te7-e8+
Bester Zug: Ta1-a7, Wert: +Matt in 18, Tiefe: 44/54, Dauer: 00:17,682, 54.742.550.000 Knoten, 9.454k