positional understanding of new chess engines

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Uri Blass
Posts: 10969
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by Uri Blass »

[d]2b3r1/6pp/1kn2p2/7N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 b - - 1 28

Old stockfish needs a long time to understand that black is better and to find Ka5(Kb5 probably does not win)
I wonder if you understand why Ka5 is winning and why it is better than Kb5 when a5 seems for me to be worse square for the king relative to b5 based on positional knowledge.

Stockfish-191-64-ja:
1 00:00 2k 546k -0.28 Kb6-b5
2 00:00 2k 570k -0.64 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5
2 00:00 2k 594k -0.56 Nc6-d4 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-b5
3 00:00 3k 560k -0.72 Nc6-d4 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-a5 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3
4 00:00 4k 623k -0.80 Nc6-d4 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-b5 Nd5xb4 Nd4xf3 g2xf3 Kb5xb4
4 00:00 5k 640k -0.40 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 c4-c3 b2xc3
5 00:00 6k 610k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
5 00:00 7k 651k -0.40 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
6 00:00 8k 581k -0.40 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
7- 00:00 10k 628k -0.48 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Kf2-e3
7- 00:00 14k 644k -0.56 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Kf2-e3
7 00:00 17k 640k -0.68 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Kf2-e3
7 00:00 20k 668k -0.56 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-d7 Kf2-e3 c4-c3 b2xc3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4
8 00:00 35k 701k -0.60 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-b7 Kf2-e3 c4-c3 b2xc3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4
9+ 00:00 57k 781k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3 f5xe4 Ng3xe4 Rg8-d8
9+ 00:00 67k 833k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3 f5xe4 Ng3xe4 Rg8-d8
9 00:00 90k 948k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-g4 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3
10 00:00 123k 1,019k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-g4 Nh5-g3 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Bg4-c8 c2-c3 a4-a3 b2xa3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3+ Kb5-c5
11 00:00 193k 1,108k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-g4 Nh5-g3 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Bg4-d7 Ng3-e2 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
12 00:00 522k 1,741k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 h2-h3 Nc6-e5 Nd5-e7 Rg8-f8 Ke3-d4 Rf8-f7 Kd4xe5 Rf7xe7+ Ke5-d6 Re7-f7
13+ 00:00 814k 2,141k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 h2-h3 Nc6-e5 Nd5-e7 Rg8-e8 Ne7-d5 Re8-g8
13 00:00 864k 2,176k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nf4-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nc7xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 Nd4-f5+ Kd6-e6
14- 00:00 975k 2,227k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nc7-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nf4xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-d3 Nc4-e5+ Kd3-e2
14 00:00 1,133k 2,381k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nc7-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nf4xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 Nd4-f5+ Kd6-c5 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
15- 00:00 1,473k 2,688k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3 Rg8-b8 Ra1-d1 Rb8xb2 Rd1xd7
15+ 00:00 2,069k 3,097k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ra1-b1 Kb5-c4 Rb1-b2 Bd7-b5
15- 00:00 2,405k 3,308k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nf4-d3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-d4 b3-b2 Ra1-b1
15 00:00 2,656k 3,449k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nf4-d3+ Kc5-d6
16- 00:00 2,842k 3,534k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 Nd5-b4 b3xc2 Rd1xd7 c2-c1Q Nf4-d3+
16 00:00 3,125k 3,680k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 Nd5-b4 Rg8-f8 Rd1xd7 Rf8xf4 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nb4-d3+ Kc5-c6
17+ 00:00 3,502k 3,930k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-d8 Nd5-f6 c4-c3 Rd1-d5+ Kc5-b6
17- 00:00 4,208k 4,351k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-d8 Nd5-f6 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2
17+ 00:01 5,270k 4,843k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-h8 Nh5-f6 a4-a3 Nf6xd7+ Ne5xd7
17 00:01 5,298k 4,843k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Bd7-c6 Nh5-f6 Rg8-g7 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3 Rg7-f7 Nf6-d5 Ne5-d3
18- 00:01 7,356k 5,702k -0.40 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nf4-e6 Bd7xe6 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nc7xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-d3 Nc4-e5+ Kd3-e2
18 00:01 9,058k 6,242k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-b7 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ra1-b1 Kb5-c4 Ng3-e2 Ne5-d7
19- 00:01 13,076k 7,434k -0.56 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-b7 Nh5-f4 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nf4-e6 b3-b2 Ra1-b1
19+ 00:02 20,064k 8,690k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ke3-d4 Ne5-c6+ Kd4-d3 Nc6-e5+
19 00:02 24,195k 9,203k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 Rd1-b1 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 Rg8-e8 Rb1xb3 Re8xe4+ Ke2-d3 Re4-e5
20 00:02 26,245k 9,353k -0.20 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 c2-c3 b4-b3 Nd5-b4 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-f8 Nb4-d5 Bd7-c6 Nh5-f6 h7-h6
21+ 00:03 40,512k 10,531k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-g3 Nc6-e5 Ke3-f4 Ne5-g4 Ng3-f5 Bd7xf5 e4xf5 Ng4-f6 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-e6 c4-c3
21 00:04 44,917k 10,634k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nb4-d3 Bb7-c6 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Nd3xe5 Re8xe5 Kd4-e3+ Kd6-e6
22- 00:04 48,805k 10,724k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nb4-d3 Bb7-c6 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Nd3-b4 a4-a3 Nb4xc6 Ne5xc6+ Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e5 Kc4xb3 a3xb2 Kb3xb2
22+ 00:04 53,854k 10,944k -0.08 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nb4-d3 Bb7-c6 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Nd3-b4 a4-a3 Nb4xc6 Ne5xc6+ Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e5 Kc4xb3 a3xb2 Kb3xb2
22 00:05 55,384k 10,982k -0.20 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3
23- 00:05 60,708k 11,090k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3 Rd1-d2
23 00:05 66,011k 11,236k -0.20 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3 Rd1-d2
24- 00:06 75,463k 11,491k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3 Rd1-d2
24 00:07 87,405k 11,702k -0.32 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 a4-a3 Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e7 Nc3-d5+ Ke7-d8 Na6-c5 Ng4-f2 Nc5-b7+ Kd8-c8 Nb7-d6+ Kc8-d8
25- 00:10 135,187k 12,393k -0.44 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 a4-a3 Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e7 Kc4xb3 Bd7-e6+ Nc3-d5+ Be6xd5+ Rd1xd5 Re8-a8 Na6-b4 a3xb2 Nb4-c6+ Ke7-e6 Nc6-d4+
25 00:12 159,750k 12,510k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 a4-a3 Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e7 Kc4xb3 Bd7-e6+ Nc3-d5+ Be6xd5+ Rd1xd5 a3xb2 Kb3xb2 Ng4xh2 Na6-c5 Nh2-g4 Kb2-c3 Ng4-e3 Rd5-e5+ Ke7-d8 Re5xe8+ Kd8xe8 g2-g3
26+ 00:14 177,709k 12,608k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Na6-c5 Bd7-c6 Nd5-e7 Kd6xe7 Kd4xe5 Rf8-f6
26 00:14 180,848k 12,615k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Na6-c5 Bd7-c6 Nd5-b6 a4-a3 b2xa3 Rf8-b8 Nc5-d3 Ne5xd3 Nb6-c4+ Kd6-e6 Rd1xd3
27+ 00:18 238,488k 12,858k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6xd5 Nb4xd5 Rg8-c8 Rd1-a1 Rc8-c2 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Ra1xa4 Ne5-c6+ Kd4-d3 Nc6-e5+
27+ 01:00 735,366k 12,106k -0.04 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-b1 Nc6-e5 Nf4-d5 Kb5-c5 Rb1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Rd1-b1 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-f2 Bd7-a4 Nh5-f4 Rg8-e8 Nf4-d3+ Kc5-d6
27 01:54 1,471,640k 12,843k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 Rg8-a8 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3 a4-a3 Rd1-a1 Ra8-b8 b2xa3 Rb8-b3 Nf4-e2 Bd7-a4 Ke3-d2 Rb3-b2+ Kd2-e3 Rb2-b3
28 02:04 1,604,751k 12,878k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 Rg8-a8 Nd5-c7 Ra8-a7 Nc7-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nf4xe6+ Kc5-c6 Rd1-b1 a4-a3 b2xa3 b4xa3 Ke3-d2 Kc6-d6 Ne6-d4 a3-a2 Rb1-a1 Kd6-c5 Kd2-c3 g7-g6 Nd4-e6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 Kd6-c5
29- 02:36 2,023,316k 12,945k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 Ne5-d3 Nd5xb4 Nd3xb2 Ke3-d4
29 02:54 2,223,738k 12,727k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 b4xc3 b2xc3 Kb5-c5 g2-g4 Bd7-c6 Nd5-f4 Bc6-d7 Ra1-d1 Ne5-d3 Nf4xd3+ c4xd3 Nh5-f4 a4-a3 Nf4xd3+ Kc5-c4 Rd1-a1 Rg8-a8 Ke3-d2 Bd7-b5 Nd3-f4 a3-a2 Kd2-c2 Bb5-a4+ Kc2-b2 Ra8-b8+ Kb2xa2 Ba4-b3+ Ka2-a3 Rb8-a8+ Ka3-b2 Ra8xa1 Kb2xa1 Bb3-d1 Ka1-b2 Bd1xf3
30 03:08 2,383,640k 12,614k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 b4xc3 b2xc3 Kb5-c5 g2-g4 Bd7-c6 Nd5-f4 Bc6-d7 Ra1-d1 Ne5-d3 Nf4-d5 Bd7-b5 Rd1-b1 Nd3-e5 Nd5-f4 Bb5-d7 Rb1-d1
31+ 03:27 2,625,006k 12,631k -0.08 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 b4xc3 b2xc3 Kb5-c5 g2-g4 Bd7-c6 Nd5-f4 Bc6-d7 Ra1-d1 Ne5-d3 Nf4-d5 Bd7-b5 Rd1-b1 Nd3-e5 Nd5-f4 Bb5-d7 Rb1-d1
31 04:43 3,389,391k 11,956k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
32 05:13 3,711,086k 11,844k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
33 06:19 4,448,158k 11,719k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
34 08:23 5,889,387k 11,697k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
35 10:33 7,582,948k 11,976k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
36 20:44 16,362,663k 13,149k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
37 27:04 21,836,021k 13,444k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
38 40:42 33,678,838k 13,790k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
39 1:04:34 54,710,170k 14,122k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
40 1:48:05 92,215,716k 14,218k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
40+ 2:06:29 107,616,902k 14,180k +0.08 Kb6-a5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-e6 Nd5-e3 Ka5-b5 Nh5-f4 Be6-f7 Nf4-d5 Bf7xd5 e4xd5 Nc6-d4 d5-d6
40+ 2:22:03 120,720,334k 14,163k +0.16 Kb6-a5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 h2-h3 Nc6-a7 Nf4-d5 f5xe4
40+ 2:59:56 152,733,924k 14,146k +0.32 Kb6-a5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-e6 Nh5-f4 Be6xd5 e4xd5 Nc6-d4 Nf4-e6 Nd4xe6
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Tibono
Posts: 151
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:16 pm
Location: France
Full name: Eric Bonneau

Re: positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by Tibono »

Hi,
getting the King closer to its Queen side Pawns looks obvious, not c5 as too much exposed to White's Knights, then the choice between a5 and b5 looks like a subtile distinction. Maybe worth avoiding b5 as it is own Bishop's color square, and Ba6 could be a nice move in some variants? Supports the c Pawn and aims at a couple of squares close to the ennemy King...
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Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4678
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
Full name:   Eelco de Groot

Re: positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by Eelco de Groot »

Just what TI net thinks here, I do not really have an opinion where to put the King :mrgreen: Is the light squared bishop not a strong asset for Black? I always forget when it is a strong bishop, but White has a lot of pawns on light squares so its own pawns may end up on dark squares and then the bishop is strong for Black. Or something like that? But, in the PV from Uri, because of checks with the knight, b5 seems a weak square for the King when it means that with checks, White manages to trade of one knight for the last bishop on the board. And it seems it is a strong bishop. That seems like a bad trade for Black, and in the PV with Ka5, White does not have this threat.

So maybe it is all tactical and the new Net from Stockfish just sees the tactics somehow better. You would have to see why old Stockish does not like Ka5 though, that would maybe explain some blind spot. This is the November 12 Net so not the very latest but close enough, and Eduard has dropped that in Corrchess. But the understanding is from the TI net, just less pruning I think. 4 threads here.


[d]2b3r1/6pp/1kn2p2/7N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 b - -

Code: Select all

Engine: Omega Nov25 4 threads (1024 MB)
gemaakt door E.N and the Stockfish developers (see A

19/47  0:01   -1.08    1...Ka5 2.Pd5 Le6 3.Pe3 Lf7 4.Pf4 Kb5 
                       5.Pe2 Td8 6.Ke1 h5 7.Td1 Txd1+ 
                       8.Kxd1 Kc5 9.Kd2 h4 10.Kc1 Pe5 
                       11.Kb1 h3 (3.018.541) 1817 

20/42  0:03   -1.01    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Le6 4.Phf4 Lxd5 
                       5.Pxd5 Tf8 6.Td1 Td8 7.h4 Kb5 8.Ta1 g6 
                       9.g4 h6 10.c3 fxe4 11.fxe4 b3 12.Tf1 a3 
                       13.bxa3 (7.163.017) 1824 

21/40  0:04   -1.00    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Le6 4.Phf4 Lxd5 
                       5.Pxd5 Tf8 6.h4 g6 7.g4 fxg4 8.fxg4 Tf7 
                       9.g5 Kb5 10.Td1 Ta7 11.Kf4 Kc5 12.c3 a3 
                       13.cxb4+ Pxb4 14.bxa3 Pd3+ (7.957.907) 1828 

22/41  0:06   -0.98++  1...Ka5 (12.518.430) 1826 

22/41  0:07   -0.96    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Tf8 4.Pxg7 fxe4 
                       5.fxe4 Tg8 6.Pf5 Txg2 7.c3 Txb2 
                       8.Pd4 Pxd4 9.cxb4+ Kb5 10.Kxd4 Td2+ 
                       11.Kc3 Td3+ 12.Kc2 a3 13.Tg1 Th3 
                       14.Tg5 Txh2+ (13.490.444) 1827 

23/46  0:08   -1.05++  1...Ka5 (15.622.825) 1824 

23/54  0:09   -0.96    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Le6 4.Phf4 Lf7 
                       5.h4 h6 6.h5 fxe4 7.fxe4 Tb8 8.b3 cxb3 
                       9.cxb3 a3 10.Tc1 Kb5 11.Pc7+ Kb6 
                       12.Pcd5+ Kb7 13.Pd3 Lxd5 14.Pc5+ Ka7 (18.048.459) 1829 

24/31  0:10   -0.96    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Le6 4.Phf4 Lf7 
                       5.h4 h6 6.h5 fxe4 7.fxe4 Tb8 8.b3 cxb3 
                       9.cxb3 a3 10.Tc1 Kb5 11.Pc7+ Kb6 
                       12.Pcd5+ Kb7 13.Pd3 Lxd5 14.Pc5+ Ka7 (18.704.641) 1831 

25/48  0:12   -0.94--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (22.181.644) 1829 

25/48  0:12   -0.94++  1...Ka5 (23.168.260) 1828 

25/48  0:12   -1.04++  1...Ka5 (23.627.307) 1829 

25/48  0:13   -0.94    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Le6 4.Phf4 Lf7 
                       5.h4 fxe4 6.fxe4 g5 7.hxg5 Txg5 
                       8.Td1 h5 9.Th1 Kb5 10.Pc7+ Kb6 
                       11.Pcd5+ Ka5 12.Th3 Kb5 13.Th1 Kc5 
                       14.Pc7 Tg3+ (24.063.084) 1830 

26/30  0:13   -0.94--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (24.454.060) 1831 

26/46  0:17   -0.94++  1...Ka5 (31.722.481) 1788 

26/46  0:18   -1.00    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Le6 4.Phf4 Lxd5 
                       5.Pxd5 Tf8 6.h4 Tf7 7.h5 fxe4 8.fxe4 h6 
                       9.g4 Kb5 10.Td1 Ta7 11.Kf4 Kc5 12.c3 b3 (32.346.941) 1778 

27/39  0:20   -0.94--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (34.853.570) 1728 

27/41  0:20   -0.94++  1...Ka5 (35.573.996) 1730 

27/49  0:20   -1.04++  1...Ka5 (36.304.057) 1731 

27/51  0:23   -1.02    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Le6 4.Phf4 Lxd5 
                       5.Pxd5 Tf8 6.Td1 fxe4 7.fxe4 Kb5 
                       8.h4 Tf7 9.g4 Kc5 10.Pf4 Ta7 11.Pe6+ Kb5 
                       12.h5 a3 13.bxa3 bxa3 14.c3 a2 (40.510.478) 1728 

28/52  0:24   -1.02    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Le6 4.Phf4 Lxd5 
                       5.Pxd5 Tf8 6.h4 fxe4 7.fxe4 Tf7 8.h5 h6 
                       9.Td1 Kb5 10.Ke2 Pe5 11.Ke3 Kc5 
                       12.Pf4 Td7 13.Pe6+ Kc6 14.Ta1 Tb7 (41.829.021) 1725 

29/55  0:27   -1.02    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 Le6 4.Phf4 Lxd5 
                       5.Pxd5 Tf8 6.h4 fxe4 7.fxe4 Tf7 8.h5 h6 
                       9.Td1 Kb5 10.Ke2 Pe5 11.Ke3 Kc5 
                       12.Pf4 Td7 13.Pe6+ Kb5 14.Txd7 Pxd7 (47.853.335) 1723 

30/56  0:31   -0.99--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (53.884.234) 1714 

30/56  0:34   -0.96--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (59.287.632) 1713 

30/56  0:35   -0.96++  1...Ka5 (61.434.785) 1717 

30/60  0:37   -0.94    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 h6 3.Pe2 f5 4.Phg3 fxe4 
                       5.Pxe4 Td8 6.g4 Kb5 7.h4 Le6 8.h5 Ld5 
                       9.P4g3 Te8+ 10.Pe4 Ta8 11.g5 Kb6 
                       12.gxh6 gxh6 13.Td1 Lf7 (65.372.763) 1726 

31/41  0:38   -1.03++  1...Ka5 (67.390.754) 1728 

31/41  0:41   -1.10++  1...Ka5 (71.419.562) 1730 

31/53  0:44   -1.13    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Pg3 Td8 6.Pf1 Td7 7.Pd2 Kb5 8.h4 Ta7 
                       9.c3 b3 10.Tf1 Kc5 11.Tf8 a3 12.bxa3 Txa3 
                       13.Tf7 Le6 14.Txg7 b2 (76.694.329) 1735 

32/54  0:52   -1.17++  1...Ka5 (92.398.388) 1744 

32/71  1:01   -1.19    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Pg3 Td8 6.Pf1 Td7 7.Pd2 Kb5 8.Tc1 h6 
                       9.h4 Le6 10.Pf4 Lf7 11.Pf3 a3 
                       12.bxa3 bxa3 13.Pe2 c3 14.Ta1 Kb4 (106.572.999) 1743 

33/62  1:08   -1.13--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (119.383.400) 1742 

33/62  1:13   -1.13++  1...Ka5 (128.505.604) 1748 

33/65  1:20   -1.21    1...Ka5 2.Pd5 Le6 3.Pe3 Lf7 4.Pf4 Kb5 
                       5.h4 Ta8 6.Pe2 Kc5 7.g4 a3 8.bxa3 Txa3 
                       9.Tc1 g5 10.Th1 b3 11.cxb3 cxb3 
                       12.Tc1+ Kb6 13.hxg5 fxg5 14.Tb1 Ta2 (140.168.859) 1737 

34/58  1:30   -1.19    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Pg3 Td8 6.Pf1 Td7 7.Pd2 Kb5 8.Tf1 h6 
                       9.h4 Le6 10.Pf4 Lf7 11.Pf3 a3 
                       12.bxa3 bxa3 13.Pe2 c3 14.Ta1 Kb4 (157.034.605) 1735 

35/65  1:45   -1.17    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Pg3 Td8 6.Pf1 Td7 7.h4 Le6 8.Pd2 Kb5 
                       9.Pf4 Pd4 10.Tc1 Lg4 11.Pf3 Pc6 
                       12.Pd5 Kc5 13.Pd2 Ta7 14.c3 b3 (181.813.268) 1728 

36/62  2:01   -1.15--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (208.950.795) 1723 

36/62  2:05   -1.15++  1...Ka5 (216.672.199) 1725 

36/62  2:15   -1.24    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Phf4 g5 6.Pe2 Lxe2 7.Kxe2 Pd4+ 
                       8.Kd2 Tf8 9.Td1 Pe6 10.Ke3 Kb5 11.h4 g4 
                       12.e5 Tf5 13.Ke4 Tf2 14.Pe3 b3 (233.834.111) 1731 

37/58  2:30   -1.18    1...Ka5 2.Pd5 Le6 3.Pe3 Lf7 4.Pf4 Kb5 
                       5.Pe2 Td8 6.Ke1 Td7 7.h4 h5 8.Pd1 Ka5 
                       9.Pe3 g5 10.hxg5 fxg5 11.Td1 Txd1+ 
                       12.Kxd1 Kb5 13.Kc1 Kc5 14.Pf5 h4 (257.948.030) 1717 

38/68  3:28   -1.16    1...Ka5 2.Pd5 Le6 3.Phf4 Lf7 4.Pe3 Kb5 
                       5.Pe2 Td8 6.h4 h5 7.Pf5 g6 8.Pe3 Td7 
                       9.Tc1 Lg8 10.Ta1 Le6 11.Pf4 Lf7 
                       12.Pe2 Td8 13.Tc1 Kc5 14.Ta1 Ta8 (351.926.716) 1690 

39/68  3:55   -1.26++  1...Ka5 (397.595.760) 1684 

39/69  4:49   -1.15--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (487.254.731) 1680 

39/69  4:59   -1.15++  1...Ka5 (503.387.878) 1679 

39/69  5:16   -1.24    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Pg3 Td8 6.Pf1 Td7 7.Pd2 Kb5 8.h4 Le6 
                       9.Pf4 Pd4 10.Tc1 Lg4 11.Pd5 Pf5+ 
                       12.Kf4 h5 13.Pf3 Lxf3 14.gxf3 Pxh4 (531.815.207) 1678 

40/62  5:55   -1.27    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Phf4 g5 6.Pe2 Lxe2 7.Kxe2 Pd4+ 
                       8.Kd2 Tf8 9.Td1 Pe6 10.Ke3 Kb5 11.h3 Kc5 
                       12.g3 Tf7 13.h4 gxh4 14.gxh4 h5 (596.632.391) 1676 

41/49  6:34   -1.32++  1...Ka5 (661.110.270) 1675 

41/68  8:32   -1.31    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Phf4 g5 6.Pe2 Lxe2 7.Kxe2 Pd4+ 
                       8.Kd2 Tf8 9.Td1 Pe6 10.Ke3 Kb5 11.h4 g4 
                       12.e5 Tf5 13.Ke4 Tf2 14.Pe3 b3 (848.091.605) 1655 

42/74  9:55   -1.31    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Pg3 Td8 6.Pf1 Td7 7.Pd2 Kb5 8.h4 Le6 
                       9.Pf4 Pd4 10.Tc1 Lg4 11.Pf3 Pc6 
                       12.Pd5 Lxf3 13.gxf3 Ta7 14.Td1 a3 (970.015.776) 1627 

43/82  11:57  -1.39    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Pg3 Td8 6.Pf1 Td7 7.Pd2 Kb5 8.h4 Le6 
                       9.Pf4 Pd4 10.Tc1 Lg4 11.Pf3 Pc6 
                       12.Pd5 Lxf3 13.gxf3 Ta7 14.Td1 a3 (1.162.311.222) 1619 

44/72  13:42  -1.32--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (1.334.181.439) 1622 

44/72  14:12  -1.29--  1...Ka5 2.Ke3 (1.384.119.585) 1622 

44/72  14:55  -1.29++  1...Ka5 (1.455.488.347) 1624 

44/72  15:43  -1.31    1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Pd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4 
                       5.Pg3 Td8 6.Pf1 Td7 7.Pd2 Kb5 8.h4 Le6 
                       9.Pf4 Pd4 10.Tc1 Lg4 11.Pb1 Pe6 
                       12.Pd5 Pc7 13.Pxc7+ Txc7 14.c3 a3 (1.533.635.807) 1626 

45/53  18:11  -1.39++  1...Ka5 (1.738.931.076) 1593 

45/78  21:17  -1.33    1...Ka5 2.Pd5 Le6 3.Phf4 Lf7 4.Pe3 Kb5 
                       5.h4 h5 6.Pf5 Td8 7.Pe2 g6 8.Pe3 g5 
                       9.hxg5 fxg5 10.g3 Td2 11.Ke1 Td7 
                       12.f4 gxf4 13.gxf4 h4 14.Kf2 Td2 (2.007.142.691) 1570 

46/71  25:50  -1.43++  1...Ka5 (2.444.320.279) 1576
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
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peter
Posts: 3440
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by peter »

I did let Stockfish dev. 251112 and Plentychess dev. 7.0.12 play out with exchanged colours after 1...Kb5 (?!) as well as after 1...Ka5.
Because match was running on two machines, opponents were slightly different, here are the games after 1...Kb5, that was 2x15 threads of a 16x4.3GHz CPU with avx512- compiles but without Syzygys (don't have them installed at this one PC so far), which doesn't have seemed to matter much, both games were drawn (GUI was set to late for adjudication ) some before reaching tbs- positions:

[pgn][Event "DESKTOP-A1EFFT7, Schnellschach 45.0min+1"]
[Site "DESKTOP-A1EFFT7"]
[Date "2025.11.15"]
[Round "2"]
[White "PlentyChess 7.0.12"]
[Black "Stockfish"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "-0.98;-0.56"]
[WhiteFideId "-1"]
[WhiteFideId "-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "2b3r1/6pp/1kn2p2/7N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 b - - 0 28"]
[PlyCount "76"]
[GameId "2244490298036295"]
[TimeControl "2700+15"]

28... Kb5 {Beide letzter Buchzug} 29. Ke3 {-0.98/52 371} Ka5 {-0.56/46 345} 30. h4 {-0.66/49 0 -0.58;-1.14: '(Se2)'} h6 {-0.54/48 271 (Ld7)} 31. Ne2 {-0.52/48 287} (31. Ng3 {-0.36/44 0} Rd8 {-0.88/16 0} 32. Nge2 {-0.30/42 63} f5 {-0.63/45 0 (Td6)} 33. Nd5 {-0.21/34 51} fxe4 {-0.63/46 0 (Le6)} 34. fxe4 {-0.17/35 61} Be6 {-0.37/43 0} 35. Nef4 {-0.10/37 69} Bg8 {-0.26/44 0} 36. h5 {-0.07/37 67} Re8 {-0.32/38 0} 37. Rf1 {-0.11/38 74} Rb8 {-0.23/29 0 (Tc8)} 38. Ne2 {-0.05/40 60} Bxd5 {-0.26/40 0 (Te8)} 39. exd5 {-0.01/41 56} Re8+ {-0.12/42 0} 40. Kd2 {0.00/49 143} Rd8 {-0.16/47 0} 41. Nf4 {0.00/53 97} Ne7 {-0.25/47 0} 42. Re1 {0.00/63 69} Nf5 {-0.09/45 0} 43. Kc1 {0.00/61 71} Rb8 {-0.03/49 0 (a3)} 44. Re5 {0.00/68 66} Nd6 {-0.03/52 0;½-½ Stockfish-PlentyChess 7.0.12 DESKTOP-A1EFFT7, Schnellschach 45.0min+1 (1) Remis angenommen}) 31... f5 {-0.41/51 0} 32. Nhg3 {-0.50/19 0} fxe4 {-0.33/50 215 (Te8)} 33. Nxe4 {-0.45/44 68} Rd8 {-0.31/43 0} 34. g4 {-0.57/20 0} Kb5 {-0.28/47 328} 35. Rg1 {-0.37/51 0} Bb7 {-0.20/49 500} 36. Ra1 {-0.65/51 0} g6 {-0.18/51 400} 37. Nd2 {-0.47/54 0} Rd7 {-0.16/44 224 (La6)} 38. Ne4 {-0.22/45 67} Rd8 {-0.11/41 1} 39. Nd2 {-0.23/28 0} Bc8 {-0.12/46 165 (La6)} 40. Ne4 {-0.18/42 71} Be6 {-0.08/42 20} 41. Rg1 {-0.24/38 0 (Tc1)} Bf7 {-0.08/43 161 (Lg8)} 42. Ra1 {-0.56/44 97 (Tf1)} Bg8 {-0.32/37 18} 43. Nf6 {-0.49/39 0} Be6 {-0.13/46 241} 44. Ne4 {-0.37/48 0} Bg8 {-0.10/39 24 (Lf7)} 45. Nf6 {-0.47/47 97} Be6 {-0.07/42 0} 46. Ne4 {-0.53/21 0} Bf7 {-0.07/37 9} 47. Nf6 {-0.52/35 0 (Tf1)} Ka5 {-0.06/37 63 (Ta8)} 48. Ne4 {-0.41/47 103} Kb5 {-0.03/42 0} 49. Nf6 {-0.51/17 0} Ka5 {-0.03/32 9 (Ta8)} 50. Ne4 {-0.17/43 87} Rd5 {-0.01/43 0} 51. Nd2 {-0.16/20 0 (Th1)} Re5+ {-0.14/34 8} 52. Ne4 {-0.18/35 0} Bd5 {-0.14/36 19} 53. Rd1 {-0.15/37 0} Kb6 {-0.09/36 13} 54. N2g3 {-0.34/39 0} Bf7 {-0.06/35 14} 55. Ne2 {-0.34/39 0} Bd5 {-0.06/40 60 (Td5)} 56. N2g3 {-0.24/46 97} Bf7 {-0.05/44 0} 57. Ne2 {-0.25/19 0} Kc7 {-0.09/34 10 (Ta5)} 58. Ra1 {-0.10/43 59 (Te1)} Ra5 {-0.05/34 6} 59. Nd4 {-0.10/37 0 (Td1)} Ne7 {-0.04/31 7} 60. Kd2 {-0.04/36 0} Kb6 {-0.03/42 54} 61. c3 {-0.14/46 0} b3 {0.00/45 3} 62. f4 {-0.03/33 0} Kc7 {0.00/48 21 (Sc6)} 63. Nf6 {-0.09/48 62} h5 {0.00/56 0 (Sg8)} 64. f5 {-0.01/58 85} hxg4 {0.00/61 0} 65. fxg6 {-0.04/21 0} Nxg6 {0.00/55 11} 66. Nxg4 {-0.01/54 0 Remis angenommen} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
And I didn't see till now I had set TC erroneously to 45'+1" instead of 45'+15", yet probably won't restart it, if at all then some later on and will come back with repeated games not until having installed Syzygys and only if the results will differ.
The games after 1...Ka5 are finished only as for the one with PlentyChess playing with Black, that was 0-1, will wait for the reversed colours to post that too. Anyhow there TC there was set correctly (45'+15"), engines were SF dev. from same day but .bmi2, same of PlentyChess 7.0.17, 15 threads of 16x3.5GHz CPU.
Peter.
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peter
Posts: 3440
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by peter »

peter wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 6:12 pm The games after 1...Ka5 are finished only as for the one with PlentyChess playing with Black, that was 0-1, will wait for the reversed colours to post that too. Anyhow there TC there was set correctly (45'+15"), engines were SF dev. from same day but .bmi2, same of PlentyChess 7.0.17, 15 threads of 16x3.5GHz CPU.
So here's that now, PlentyChess was 7.0.19, not 7.0.17 as mistyped above, SF dev. 20251112:
[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 45.0min+15.0sek"]
[Site "DESKTOP-T00VCQ1"]
[Date "2025.11.15"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish"]
[Black "PlentyChess 7.0.19"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Annotator "-1.60;-1.71"]
[WhiteFideId "-1"]
[WhiteFideId "-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "2b3r1/6pp/1kn2p2/7N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 b - - 0 28"]
[PlyCount "157"]
[GameId "2244494837473320"]
[TimeControl "2700+15"]

28... Ka5 {Beide letzter Buchzug} 29. Ke3 {-1.60/47 711} (29. Nd5 {-1.81/52 484} Be6 {-1.55/40 152} 30. Ne3 {-1.91/42 0} Bf7 {-1.64/35 66} 31. Nf4 {-1.94/38 0} Kb5 {-1.71/35 62} 32. Ne2 {-1.82/39 0} Rd8 {-1.83/39 63} 33. Ke1 {-2.07/38 0} h5 {-1.99/37 61 (Td7)} 34. Nf5 {-1.92/45 162 (Tc1)} g6 {-2.46/36 76} 35. Ne3 {-2.16/39 0} g5 {-2.55/36 68 (Ta8)} 36. Rd1 {-2.08/48 119} Rxd1+ {-2.77/38 0} 37. Kxd1 {-2.02/22 0} Kc5 {-2.90/36 69} 38. c3 {-2.27/42 0 (Kd2)} b3 {-3.12/38 53} 39. Kc1 {-2.45/42 0} Ne5 {-3.32/38 100} 40. Nd4 {-2.78/44 0} Nd3+ {-3.39/38 67} 41. Kb1 {-2.85/43 0} Kd6 {-3.71/44 258 (Se1)} 42. Nef5+ {-3.21/37 74} Kd7 {-3.78/35 0} 43. Ne3 {-3.20/21 0 (g3)} Ne1 {-3.88/33 59} 44. Ndf5 {-3.34/36 0 (g3)} Be6 {-4.09/30 87 (Lg6)} 45. Nd4 {-3.56/36 94} h4 {-4.23/33 0 (Kd6)} 46. g3 {-4.38/46 419} h3 {-4.72/40 0} 47. Nf1 {-4.38/19 0 (Ka1)} Nd3 {-4.77/31 54 (Kd6)} 48. Nd2 {-4.66/39 155 (Se3)} g4 {-4.99/33 132 (Kd6)} 49. f4 {-5.07/34 167} Nf2 {-5.26/33 0} 50. Kc1 {-5.06/17 0 (Sb5)} Ke7 {-5.33/31 70 (Kd6)} 51. Kb1 {-5.16/37 199 (Sb5)} Kd6 {-5.54/28 111 (Kd7)} 52. Kc1 {-5.13/36 212 (Sb5+)} Kd7 {-5.77/26 67} 53. Kb1 {-5.07/36 0 (Sf1)} Bf7 {-5.86/25 52} 54. Kc1 {-5.30/31 0} Nd3+ {-5.94/24 82} 55. Kb1 {-5.40/33 0} Bg6 {-5.97/26 75} 56. f5 {-5.59/30 0 (Se2)} Bf7 {-6.02/27 56} 57. Nb5 {-5.89/30 0} Kc6 {-6.17/27 115} 58. Na3 {-6.30/31 0} Kc5 {-6.52/26 55 (Se5)} 59. Ka1 {-7.06/33 254 (Sf1)} Ne1 {-7.44/26 150 (Se5)} 60. Nf1 {-7.29/31 139 (e5)} Kd6 {-8.05/25 94 (Sf3)} 61. Ne3 {-6.53/30 33 (Kb1)} Ke5 {-8.97/25 48} 62. Nxg4+ {-6.77/29 0} Kxe4 {-9.83/24 49} 63. Nb5 {-6.94/33 0 (Sh6)} Kf3 {-70.30/31 47 (Kxf5)} 64. Nxf6 {-7.69/29 31} Kg2 {-199.44/28 55} 65. Ng4 {-7.61/37 0 (Se4)} Nf3 {-199.71/63 60 (Lh5)} 66. Nd6 {-8.14/31 35} Nxh2 {-#18/84 52 (Lg8)} 67. Ne3+ {#3164/41 29} Kf3 {-#17/107 49} 68. Nxf7 {#3364/43 0} Kxe3 {-#16/106 87} 69. Ng5 {-#16/45 0} Nf3 {-#15/132 66} 70. Nxh3 {-#14/55 0} Kd2 {-#14/155 59} 71. Kb1 {-#13/59 0} a3 {-#13/179 56} 72. bxa3 {-#12/62 0} Kxc3 {-#12/194 55} 73. Nf2 {-#11/68 0} Nd2+ {-#11/201 59} 74. Kc1 {-#10/80 0} b2+ {-#10/196 35} 75. Kd1 {-#9/87 0} b1=Q+ {-#9/199 72} 76. Ke2 {-#8/106 0} Qb7 {-#8/204 67 (Dg1)} 77. Nd1+ {-#7/126 91} Kc2 {-#7/245 0 (Kd4)} 78. Ne3+ {-#6/173 186} Kc1 {-#6/245 0} 79. Nd5 {-#5/190 0} Qxd5 {-#5/245 0} 80. Ke3 {-#4/196 0} Qe4+ {-#4/245 0} 81. Kf2 {-#3/249 0} Qf3+ {-#3/245 0} 82. Kg1 {-#2/249 0} Qf1+ {-#2/245 0} 83. Kh2 {-#1/249 0} Nf3# {-#1/245 0;0-1 PlentyChess 7.0.19-Stockfish AMD, Schnellschach 45.0min+15.0sek DESKTOP-T00VCQ1 (2)}) 29... f5 {-1.71/43 85} 30. Nd5 {-1.68/34 10} fxe4 {-1.73/37 0} 31. fxe4 {-1.78/33 61} Bg4 {-1.82/42 0} 32. Ng3 {-1.88/38 293} Rd8 {-2.05/52 0} 33. Nf1 {-1.88/37 209} Be6 {-2.16/53 0 (Td7)} 34. Nd2 {-1.52/32 36} Bxd5 {-2.09/43 0} 35. exd5 {-1.78/37 132} Ne7 {-2.25/49 0} 36. Nxc4+ {-2.06/38 228 (Ke4)} Kb5 {-2.41/49 140} 37. Ne5 {-2.12/36 0} Nxd5+ {-2.40/22 0} 38. Ke4 {-2.25/37 135} Nb6 {-2.49/46 0} 39. g4 {-2.48/37 588 (g3)} Rd2 {-2.85/40 97} 40. Nf3 {-2.56/29 0} Rg2 {-2.82/19 0} 41. h3 {-2.57/24 44} Kc5 {-2.87/36 0} 42. Ne1 {-2.66/30 58} Re2+ {-2.94/36 0} 43. Kf3 {-2.58/23 33} Re8 {-3.01/33 0} 44. Kf2 {-2.65/32 148} Kb5 {-3.13/38 0} 45. Nf3 {-2.71/33 123 (Td1)} Nd5 {-3.33/37 121} 46. Ra2 {-2.87/29 0 (Se1)} Re4 {-3.93/38 116} 47. Nd2 {-3.23/25 0} Re3 {-3.84/15 0 (Te7)} 48. Nf3 {-3.39/28 154 (Ta1)} Re4 {-4.21/33 87} 49. Nd2 {-3.46/26 0} Re7 {-4.08/19 0} 50. Nf3 {-3.21/14 13} Ne3 {-4.20/27 0} 51. Nd4+ {-3.45/17 30} Kc4 {-3.86/33 0} 52. Rxa4 {-3.47/15 9} Kxd4 {-4.21/28 0} 53. Rxb4+ {-3.59/20 15} Kd5 {-4.26/27 0} 54. Rb5+ {-3.41/20 24} Kc4 {-4.30/26 0} 55. Rb3 {-3.37/21 12} Nd5 {-4.27/27 0} 56. Rf3 {-3.67/25 42 (Td3)} Kd4 {-4.87/35 124} 57. c3+ {-4.21/30 0 (Ta3)} Ke5 {-5.57/32 128} 58. c4 {-4.54/31 0 (Tf5+)} Nf6 {-6.07/30 140 (Sf4)} 59. Ke3 {-4.58/22 42} Rb7 {-6.20/29 0} 60. Rf5+ {-4.64/23 14} Ke6 {-6.24/24 0} 61. Ra5 {-4.91/25 23 (Kd4)} Rxb2 {-6.44/33 72} 62. Ra6+ {-5.15/30 0} Kf7 {-6.44/17 0} 63. Ra3 {-5.20/27 29 (Ta7+)} Rh2 {-7.05/38 440} 64. Kd4 {-5.67/34 0} Rd2+ {-7.06/18 0} 65. Ke3 {-5.77/22 30} Rd1 {-7.10/25 0} 66. c5 {-5.23/19 6 (g5)} Rc1 {-7.45/31 138 (Ke6)} 67. Ra7+ {-6.23/23 26 (g5)} Kg6 {-7.60/28 66} 68. Ra5 {-6.91/24 0 (Kd4)} h6 {-7.75/34 63} 69. Kd4 {-7.57/24 0} Nd7 {-7.75/20 0} 70. Ra6+ {-35.97/22 41} Kh7 {-7.79/31 0} 71. c6 {-46.53/19 20} Nb8 {-7.86/32 0} 72. Rb6 {-48.01/19 16 (Ta3)} Nxc6+ {-8.32/34 86} 73. Ke3 {-48.46/18 0 (Kd3)} Ne7 {-9.01/28 68} 74. Kf2 {-83.08/27 0 (Kd4)} Rc3 {-9.37/28 58 (Sd5)} 75. Rb1 {-59.42/20 40 (h4)} Ng6 {-52.32/21 52 (Sg8)} 76. Rb5 {-35.97/18 20 (h4)} Rxh3 {-100.96/22 54 (Sf4)} 77. Rf5 {-8.25/16 16 (Kg2)} h5 {-112.64/16 264 (Tc3)} 78. g5 {-12.03/20 15} h4 {-112.64/21 0 (Se5)} 79. Ke2 {-51.67/16 16 (Tb5)} Rg3 {-112.64/20 84 (Tc3)} 80. Kf2 {-58.62/22 15 (Kd2)} Ne5 {#3664/20 94 (Tc3)} 81. Ke2 {-199.90/24 10} h3 {#3764/20 0} 82. Rf4 {-199.92/27 19} h2 {#4064/22 0} 83. Rh4+ {-199.94/24 3} Kg6 {#4164/24 0} 84. Rh8 {-199.97/27 16} h1=Q {#4264/25 0 (Txg5)} 85. Rxh1 {-199.98/42 19} Rxg5 {#4364/38 0} 86. Rb1 {-3/0 0 (Tf1)} Kf5 {-2/0 0} 87. Rf1+ {-2/1 0} Ke4 {-1/0 0} 88. Rf2 {-1/0 0} g6 {-3/1 0} 89. Kd2 {-3/1 0} Rg3 {-2/0 0} 90. Re2+ {-2/1 0} Kd4 {-1/0 0} 91. Rf2 {-1/0 0} g5 {-1/1 0} 92. Ke2 {-1/0 0} g4 {-5/1 0} 93. Rf4+ {-5/1 0} Kd5 {-4/1 0} 94. Rb4 {-4/0 0} Rc3 {-3/0 0} 95. Rb5+ {-3/1 0} Ke4 {-2/0 0} 96. Rb4+ {-2/0 0} Nc4 {-1/1 0} 97. Rb5 {-1/0 0} g3 {-2/1 0} 98. Rg5 {-2/0 0} Kf4 {-1/1 0} 99. Rg7 {-1/0 0} g2 {-4/1 0} 100. Kf2 {-4/0 0} Rc2+ {-3/1 0} 101. Ke1 {-3/1 0} Ne3 {-2/0 0} 102. Rf7+ {-2/1 0} Nf5 {-1/1 0} 103. Kd1 {-1/0 0} g1=Q+ {-1/1 0} 104. Kxc2 {-5/1 0} Qc5+ {-4/1 0} 105. Kb1 {-4/0 0} Qb4+ {-3/1 0} 106. Ka1 {-3/1 0} Qa3+ {-2/0 0} 0-1
[/pgn]
Peter.
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peter
Posts: 3440
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by peter »

peter wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 6:12 pm And I didn't see till now I had set TC erroneously to 45'+1" instead of 45'+15", yet probably won't restart it, if at all then some later on and will come back with repeated games not until having installed Syzygys and only if the results will differ.
They did as for the game of SF with Black, PlentyChess drew with Black, but SF won this time. These were the .bmi2- compiles again because of the already installed 6men Syzygys on this one machine.
[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 45.0min+15.0sek"]
[Site "DESKTOP-T00VCQ1"]
[Date "2025.11.15"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish"]
[Black "PlentyChess 7.0.19"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[Annotator "-0.62;-0.86"]
[WhiteFideId "-1"]
[WhiteFideId "-1"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "2b3r1/6pp/1kn2p2/7N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 b - - 0 28"]
[PlyCount "25"]
[GameId "2244551170035803"]
[TimeControl "2700+15"]

28... Kb5 {Beide letzter Buchzug} 29. Ke3 {-0.62/42 192} (29. Nd5 {-0.99/47 115} Nd4 {-1.39/44 137} 30. Ne3 {-1.12/50 0} Rd8 {-1.50/40 85} 31. Rd1 {-1.00/48 0} Ne6 {-1.60/37 54} 32. Ke1 {-1.05/47 0} Rd7 {-1.69/38 60} 33. Rxd7 {-1.19/46 0} Bxd7 {-1.78/40 82} 34. Kd1 {-1.22/45 0 (Kd2)} Kc5 {-1.86/38 54} 35. Kc1 {-1.34/43 0} Bc6 {-1.90/40 66 (Le8)} 36. Ng3 {-1.47/55 361 (c3)} Nf4 {-2.26/36 63} 37. c3 {-1.55/45 0} b3 {-2.31/44 126} 38. Ngf5 {-1.66/45 0} g6 {-2.38/36 76 (Se6)} 39. Nd4 {-1.56/43 134} Nd3+ {-2.46/40 0} 40. Kb1 {-1.64/21 0} Ne5 {-2.52/38 69} 41. h4 {-1.83/42 0 (Se6+)} Kd6 {-2.59/33 54} 42. Ne2 {-1.90/43 0 (Kc1)} Bd7 {-2.73/33 54} 43. Nd4 {-2.34/38 0 (Sg3)} Be6 {-2.92/33 57} 44. g3 {-2.73/33 0 (Sb5+)} Bf7 {-3.11/31 74 (Ke7)} 45. f4 {-2.92/39 109} Nd7 {-3.34/32 0} 46. Nf3 {-2.76/18 0} Nc5 {-3.56/26 77} 47. Nd2 {-3.17/37 0} Ke7 {-3.68/27 87} 48. Ka1 {-3.37/28 0} g5 {-3.80/33 82 (Sd3)} 49. Nf5+ {-3.43/44 479} Ke6 {-4.37/39 0 (Kd7)} 50. Nd4+ {-3.63/40 107 (hxg5)} Kd7 {-4.57/29 68 (Ke7)} 51. hxg5 {-3.97/36 226 (fxg5)} fxg5 {-4.76/32 67} 52. fxg5 {-3.97/35 0} Bg6 {-4.80/32 67} 53. Nxc4 {-4.15/29 0} Bxe4 {-4.86/34 64} 54. Ne5+ {-4.31/40 0 (Se3)} Kd6 {-5.00/29 62} 55. Nf7+ {-4.31/39 0 (Sc4+)} Kd5 {-5.26/30 55 (Ke7)} 56. Nd8 {-4.88/33 191 (Sh6)} Bd3 {-6.30/30 68 (Kd6)} 57. N8c6 {-5.96/36 324} Ke4 {-13.47/36 0 (Kd6)} 58. Nb4 {-6.30/28 84 (c4)} Ke3 {-63.72/30 922} 59. Nbc6 {-7.89/37 0 (Sxd3)} Kf2 {-70.05/37 371} 60. Ne5 {-8.09/35 0 (g4)} Kxg3 {-72.60/25 52 (Lc2)} 61. g6 {-9.61/35 251 (Sef3)} hxg6 {-83.14/24 8 (Lxg6)} 62. Nef3 {-102.26/30 202} Kf4 {-199.79/30 0 (Kg4)} 63. Ng1 {-112.64/25 54 (Se1)} g5 {-199.83/34 65} 64. Nh3+ {#3264/31 0} Kg4 {-199.81/39 24} 65. Nf2+ {-112.60/27 0 (Se6)} Kg3 {-#21/35 17} 66. Nd1 {#3164/26 0} Kf4 {-#19/38 16} 67. Nf2 {#3664/28 0} g4 {-#17/43 15} 68. Nh1 {#3964/25 0} g3 {-#15/47 15} 69. Nxg3 {-#19/32 0} Kxg3 {-#14/85 4} 70. c4 {-#12/38 0} Bxc4 {-#13/53 7 (Lc2)} 71. Kb1 {-#15/38 33} Kf4 {-#12/65 0 (Sd3)} 72. Kc1 {-#11/45 26 (Ka1)} Ke4 {-#11/116 44} 73. Nc2 {-#10/49 0} bxc2 {-#10/57 20 (Ld3)} 74. Kxc2 {-#9/51 25} a3 {-1/1 0 (Kd4)} 75. bxa3 {-5/1 0} Kd4 {-4/1 0} 76. Kb2 {-4/0 0} Bb3 {-3/0 0;0-1 PlentyChess 7.0.19-Stockfish AMD, Schnellschach 45.0min+15.0sek DESKTOP-T00VCQ1 (2)}) 29... Ka5 {-0.86/42 107} 30. h4 {-0.55/37 3} f5 {-0.97/29 0 (h6)} 31. Nd5 {-0.35/33 52} Be6 {-0.65/40 0} 32. Nhf4 {-0.23/31 67} Bxd5 {-0.48/40 0} 33. exd5 {-0.14/31 68} Re8+ {-0.28/40 0} 34. Kf2 {-0.05/36 78} Ne5 {-0.16/42 0 (Sd8)} 35. Rd1 {-0.05/40 49} Nd7 {-0.21/45 0} 36. d6 {0.00/47 116} Kb5 {-0.19/57 0 (Ta8)} 37. Nd5 {0.00/53 62} Kc5 {-0.23/50 0} 38. Nc7 {0.00/61 69} Re5 {-0.01/52 0} 39. Na6+ {0.00/54 68} Kb5 {-0.16/54 0} 40. f4 {0.00/56 92} Re4 {-0.01/55 0 Remis angenommen} 1/2-1/2
[/pgn]
And here I'd have some SF- output after Backward of before outplayed lines. That's the 16x4.3 GHz CPU again, 30 threads of avx512- compile.
After 1...Ka5:

2b3r1/6pp/2n2p2/k6N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 w - -

Engine: Stockfish251112 (65536 MB)
von the Stockfish developers (see AUTHORS f

49/111 14:15 -2.05 2.Ke3 f5 3.Sd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4
5.Shf4 g5 6.Se2 Lxe2 7.Kxe2 Sd4+
8.Kd2 Tf8 9.Th1 Se6 10.Ke3 Kb5 11.g3 Kc5
12.Td1 h5 13.h4 gxh4 14.gxh4 Tf7
15.Ta1 (24.212.797.002) 28289

And after 1...Kb5(?!):

2b3r1/6pp/2n2p2/1k5N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 w - -

Engine: Stockfish251112 (65536 MB)
von the Stockfish developers (see AUTHORS f

51/91 14:41 -0.49 2.Ke3 Ka5 3.h4 h6 4.Se2 f5 5.Shg3 fxe4
6.Sxe4 Td8 7.g4 Kb5 8.Tg1 Lb7 9.Ta1 g6
10.Sd2 Lc8 11.Se4 Le6 12.Tb1 Lg8
13.Ta1 Lf7 14.Tf1 Se7 15.Ta1 (24.521.803.446) 27833

And MultiPV=2 at starting position:

2b3r1/6pp/1kn2p2/7N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 b - -

Engine: Stockfish251112 (65536 MB)
von the Stockfish developers (see AUTHORS f

50 39:31 -1.73 1...Ka5 2.Ke3 f5 3.Sd5 fxe4 4.fxe4 Lg4
5.Sg3 Td8 6.Se2 Le6 7.Sef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6
9.g4 h6 10.g5 hxg5 11.hxg5 Th8
12.Td1 Th2 13.Se2 Th3+ 14.Kf4 Kb5 (126.254.602.407) 53236

50 39:31 -0.49 1...Kb5 2.Ke3 Ld7 3.h4 Le8 4.Sg3 Lf7
5.Sf5 Td8 6.Se2 Ka5 7.Sfd4 Sxd4
8.Sxd4 Ta8 9.c3 b3 10.g4 h5 11.gxh5 Lxh5
12.Sf5 Td8 13.Sd4 Le8 14.f4 Kb6 (126.254.602.407) 53236

So after all I'd say 1...Ka5 is a winner, if the only game changing one isn't quite clearly to be answered, because 1...Kb5(?!) is of some advantage for Black still (as we see at the single one game above, that PlentyChess lost against SF after 1...Kb5 yet too), even if of much smaller one. So anyhow 1...Ka5 is a clear single best move in the sense of this one meaning of a test position to me, regards
Peter.
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Eelco de Groot
Posts: 4678
Joined: Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:40 am
Full name:   Eelco de Groot

Re: positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by Eelco de Groot »

Hi Peter, thanks for playing the games! I take it that you did not play that 'return' game as yet where Stockfish has to win against Plentychess with Ka5? But it is not very important of course. I did try to flesh out the PV a bit myself but there was some trouble because this Omega thing ran off in to infinity with a search explosion probably. I had let it calculate overnight on 6. Ne2 because that was not in the Omega PV yet so it could have been a bit better move than 6. Nf1. But after about 5 minutes no new output and I had to stop it much later next day (500 minutes or so) If this was in the new Stockfish code Eduard implemented, probably others will see it later.

Anyway I got back to Crystal 5 KWK and it does just fine for checking this move.

Some more checkpoints in the pgn of Omega's PV:


[pgn]
[Event "?"]
[Site "?"]
[Date "2025.11.16"]
[Round "?"]
[White "?"]
[Black "?"]
[Result "*"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "2b3r1/6pp/1kn2p2/7N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 b - -"]

1... Ka5 2. Ke3 f5 3. Nd5 fxe4 4. fxe4 Bg4 5. Ng3 Rd8
6. Nf1 (6. Ne2 Be6 {see Crystal 5 KWK analysis}) 6... Rd7 7. Nd2 Kb5 8. h4 (8. Rc1
{-1.84/55 241:55m} Be6 9. Nf4 Bf7 10. Ne2 Kc5 11. h4 b3
12. Nf4 a3 13. Nxb3+ cxb3 14. cxb3+ Kb5 15. bxa3 Bxb3
16. Ne2 Bf7 17. a4+ Kb6 18. Ng3 Ne5 19. Nf5 g6 20. Rb1+ Kc7
21. Nh6) 8... Be6 9. Nf4 Nd4 10. Rc1 Bg4 11. Nf3 (11. Nb1
{-1.91/36 5:04m} Ne6 12. Nd5 Nc7 13. Nf4 Kc5 14. Nd2 Nb5
15. Nf3 Re7 16. Rd1 a3 17. bxa3 bxa3 18. Ne2 h6 19. Ra1 Bf5
20. Nd2 c3 21. Nb3+ Kb4 22. Ng3 Be6 23. Nc1 Bc4 24. h5)
11... Nc6 *
[/pgn]

Checking 6.Ne2, three best moves Multi PV:

[d]3r4/6pp/2n5/k2N4/ppp1P1b1/4K3/1PP1N1PP/R7 b - -

Engine: Crystal 5 KWK (1024 MB)
gemaakt door the Stockfish developers (see AUTHORS f

47 151:19 -1.81 6...Lxe2 7.Kxe2 Pd4+ 8.Kd2 Tf8 9.Td1 Pe6
10.Ke3 Kb5 11.g3 Ta8 12.Pf4 Td8
13.Tc1 Pd4 14.Pd5 Pc6 15.Ta1 Tf8
16.Pc7+ Ka5 17.Td1 g6 18.h4 Td8
19.Pd5 Kb5 (7.473.591.300) 823

47 151:19 -1.87 6...Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6
10.Td1 Kb5 11.Ta1 g5 12.Pc7+ Ka5
13.Pfd5 gxh4 14.Th1 Tb8 15.Txh4 a3
16.bxa3 bxa3 17.Pc3 Pb4 18.Kd2 Tg8
19.Kc1 h5 (7.473.591.300) 823

47 151:19 -0.33 6...Tc8 7.Pd4 Pxd4 8.Kxd4 Kb5 9.Tf1 Le6
10.Tf3 g5 11.g4 b3 12.Kc3 Kc5 13.Tf1 Tb8
14.Pc7 Lc8 15.h3 bxc2 16.Kxc2 c3
17.bxc3 a3 18.Tb1 Txb1 19.Kxb1 Kd6 (7.473.591.300) 823
______________________________________________________________

48 184:54 -1.90 6...Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6
10.g5 hxg5 11.hxg5 Th8 12.Tf1 Th2
13.Pe2 Th3+ 14.Kf4 Kb5 15.Ta1 Th5
16.Pc7+ Ka5 17.Td1 Th4+ 18.Ke3 Th3+
19.Kf4 Kb6 (9.121.315.774) 822

48 184:54 -1.84 6...Lxe2 7.Kxe2 Pd4+ 8.Kd2 Tf8 9.Td1 Pe6
10.Ke3 Kb5 11.g3 Ta8 12.Pf4 Td8
13.Tc1 Pd4 14.Pd5 Pc6 15.Ta1 Tf8
16.Pc7+ Ka5 17.Pe6 Tf7 18.Td1 Kb6
19.Pd8 Pxd8 (9.121.315.774) 822

48 184:54 -0.34 6...Tc8 7.Pd4 Pxd4 8.Kxd4 Kb5 9.Tf1 Le6
10.Tf3 g5 11.g4 b3 12.Kc3 Kc5 13.Tf1 Tb8
14.Pc7 Lc8 15.h3 h6 16.Pd5 Ld7
17.Tf7 Lc6 18.Tf5 bxc2 19.Kxc2 Kd4 (9.121.315.774) 822
_____________________________________________________________

49 246:28 -1.99 6...Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.b3 cxb3
10.cxb3 a3 11.Tc1 Kb5 12.Pc7+ Kb6
13.Pcd5+ Kb7 14.g4 h6 15.g5 hxg5
16.hxg5 Th8 17.Kd3 Th4 18.Tf1 Th2
19.Kc4 a2 (12.125.679.832) 819

49 246:28 -1.84 6...Lxe2 7.Kxe2 Pd4+ 8.Kd2 Tf8 9.Td1 Pe6
10.Ke3 Kb5 11.g3 Ta8 12.Pf4 Td8
13.Tc1 Pd4 14.Pd5 Pc6 15.Ta1 Tf8
16.Pc7+ Ka5 17.Td1 g6 18.Pd5 Kb5
19.Pc7+ Kb6 (12.125.679.832) 819

49 246:28 -0.39 6...Tc8 7.Pd4 Pxd4 8.Kxd4 Kb5 9.Tf1 Le6
10.Tf3 g5 11.g4 b3 12.Kc3 Kc5 13.Tf1 Tb8
14.Pc7 Lc8 15.h3 h6 16.Pd5 Ld7
17.Tf7 Lc6 18.Tf5 bxc2 19.Kxc2 Kd4 (12.125.679.832) 819
______________________________________________________________

50 301:21 -1.94 6...Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6
10.g5 hxg5 11.hxg5 Th8 12.Tf1 Th2
13.Pe2 Th3+ 14.Kf4 Kb5 15.Ta1 Th5
16.Pc7+ Ka5 17.Td1 Kb6 18.Pd5+ Kc5
19.Pf6 Th2 (14.801.918.180) 818

50 301:21 -1.80 6...Lxe2 7.Kxe2 Pd4+ 8.Kd2 Tf8 9.Td1 Pe6
10.Ke3 Kb5 11.g3 Ta8 12.Pf4 Td8
13.Tc1 Pd4 14.Pd5 Pc6 15.Ta1 Tf8
16.Pc7+ Ka5 17.Td1 Kb6 18.Pd5+ Kc5
19.Pc7 Tc8 (14.801.918.180) 818

50 301:21 -0.34 6...Tc8 7.Pd4 Pxd4 8.Kxd4 Kb5 9.Tf1 Le6
10.Tf3 g5 11.g4 b3 12.Kc3 Kc5 13.Tf1 Tb8
14.Pc7 Lc8 15.h3 bxc2 16.Kxc2 c3
17.bxc3 a3 18.Tb1 Txb1 19.Kxb1 Kd6 (14.801.918.180) 818
.
.
.
_______________________________________________________________

52 497:15 -2.11 6...Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6
10.Td1 Kb5 11.Ta1 g5 12.hxg5 hxg5
13.Pc7+ Ka5 14.Pfe6 Lxe6 15.Pxe6 Th8
16.e5 Pxe5 17.Kd4 Pf3+ 18.Kd5 Tc8
19.c3 Pd2 (24.558.708.976) 823

52 497:15 -1.85 6...Lxe2 7.Kxe2 Pd4+ 8.Kd2 Tf8 9.Td1 Pe6
10.Ke3 Kb5 11.g3 Ta8 12.Pf4 Td8
13.Tc1 Pd4 14.Pd5 Pc6 15.Ta1 g6
16.Pc7+ Ka5 17.Pd5 Tf8 18.Pc7 Tb8
19.Pd5 Tb7 (24.558.708.976) 823

52 497:15 -0.27 6...Tc8 7.Pd4 Pxd4 8.Kxd4 Kb5 9.Tf1 Le6
10.Tf3 g5 11.g4 b3 12.Kc3 Kc5 13.Tf1 Tb8
14.Pc7 Lc8 15.h3 Tb6 16.e5 Tb7
17.Pe8 bxc2 18.Kxc2 a3 19.bxa3 Ld7 (24.558.708.976) 823

I trust Crystal here


Search explosion of Omega see Depth 42, output only after stopping the search, very high nodes per second then:

Code: Select all

 35/76	 1:49 	-1.17 	6.Pe2 Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6 10.Td1 g5 11.hxg5 hxg5 12.Ph3 Tg8 13.Pf6 Tg7 14.Pf2 Le6 15.e5 Pxe5 16.P2e4 Pd7 17.Pxd7 Txd7 18.Txd7 Lxd7 19.Kd2 (208.393.544) 1899
 36/24	 1:59 	-1.26--	6.Pe2 Le6 (224.989.001) 1890
 36/64	 2:18 	-1.34--	6.Pe2 Le6 (260.621.351) 1878
 36/64	 2:27 	-1.34++	6.Pe2 (275.929.972) 1871
 36/69	 2:35 	-1.30++	6.Pe2 (289.764.455) 1865
 36/69	 2:39 	-1.35 	6.Pe2 Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6 10.g5 hxg5 11.hxg5 Th8 12.Td1 Th2 13.Pe2 Th3+ 14.Kf4 Kb5 15.Ta1 Th4+ 16.Kg3 Th5 17.Kf4 Th3 18.Te1 Kc5 19.Ta1 (297.540.383) 1864
 37/65	 3:14 	-1.39 	6.Pe2 Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6 10.Td1 Kb5 11.g5 hxg5 12.hxg5 Kc5 13.Tc1 a3 14.bxa3 bxa3 15.Ta1 Pd4 16.Kd2 Pb5 17.Ke3 Lxd5 18.Pxd5 Th8 19.Kf4 (360.464.294) 1849
 38/35	 3:23 	-1.33++	6.Pe2 (375.297.874) 1846
 38/60	 3:29 	-1.33 	6.Pe2 Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6 10.Td1 Kb5 11.Ta1 Td7 12.g5 hxg5 13.hxg5 Ta7 14.Pe2 Kc5 15.Pf6 Le6 16.Kd2 Ta6 17.c3 b3 18.Pf4 Lf7 19.Pg4 (387.100.458) 1843
 39/58	 3:49 	-1.39 	6.Pe2 Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6 10.g5 hxg5 11.hxg5 Th8 12.Td1 Th2 13.Pe2 Th3+ 14.Kf4 Kb5 15.Ta1 Th5 16.Kg4 Ka5 17.Kf3 Th3+ 18.Kg2 Th8 19.Td1 (421.958.263) 1835
 40/68	 4:01 	-1.34++	6.Pe2 (441.782.576) 1832
 40/68	 4:12 	-1.33 	6.Pe2 Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6 10.g5 hxg5 11.hxg5 Th8 12.Td1 Th2 13.Pe2 Th3+ 14.Kf4 Kb5 15.Ta1 Th5 16.Td1 Th2 17.Ke3 Th3+ 18.Kd2 Kc5 19.Pdf4 (461.962.800) 1827
 41/66	 4:34 	-1.31++	6.Pe2 (501.225.049) 1829
 41/66	 4:43 	-1.29++	6.Pe2 (519.620.362) 1832
 41/81	 5:14 	-1.39 	6.Pe2 Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6 10.g5 hxg5 11.hxg5 Th8 12.Td1 Th2 13.Pe2 Th3+ 14.Kf2 Pe5 15.Kg2 Th5 16.Kg3 Pc6 17.Kf4 Th3 18.Tf1 Le6 19.Tc1 (588.586.305) 1871
 42/31	 5:56 	-1.32++	6.Pe2 (679.639.837) 1907
 42/31	530:07 	-1.32++	6.Pe2 (153.318.113.838) 4820
 47/60	530:07 	-1.40 	6.Pe2 Le6 7.Pef4 Lf7 8.h4 g6 9.g4 h6 10.g5 hxg5 11.hxg5 Th8 12.Td1 Th2 13.Pe2 Th3+ 14.Kf4 Kb5 15.Ta1 Th5 16.Td1 Th2 17.Ke3 Th3+ 18.Kf4 Kc5 19.Pf6 (153.318.113.839) 4820
beste zet: Pg3-e2  tijd: 530:07.937 min  n/s: 4.820.121   nodes: 153.318.113.839 
Available processors: 0-3
Using 4 threads
NNUE evaluation using nn-49c1193b131c.nnue (125MiB, (102384, 1024, 15, 32, 1))
NNUE evaluation using nn-37f18f62d772.nnue (6MiB, (22528, 128, 15, 32, 1))
Network replica 1: Shared memory.
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first
place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you
are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it.
-- Brian W. Kernighan
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chrisw
Posts: 4697
Joined: Tue Apr 03, 2012 4:28 pm
Location: Midi-Pyrénées
Full name: Christopher Whittington

Re: positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by chrisw »

A shot at "positional knowledge", proviso SF is not sentient and knows nothing in a human sense:

Ka5 takes the king further from potential knight checks down the tree and therefore decreases white's effective mobility.
Kb5 might allow Nc3+ in some variations down the tree and this could be a tempo gaining forking check for white, courtesy of white Ra1, onto the black pawn a4.

Where to place your king in relation to enemy knights in positions like these is a positional knowledge heuristic. Not a hard and fast rule, but one tries to optimise the statistics.
Uri Blass wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 1:32 pm [d]2b3r1/6pp/1kn2p2/7N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 b - - 1 28

Old stockfish needs a long time to understand that black is better and to find Ka5(Kb5 probably does not win)
I wonder if you understand why Ka5 is winning and why it is better than Kb5 when a5 seems for me to be worse square for the king relative to b5 based on positional knowledge.

Stockfish-191-64-ja:
1 00:00 2k 546k -0.28 Kb6-b5
2 00:00 2k 570k -0.64 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5
2 00:00 2k 594k -0.56 Nc6-d4 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-b5
3 00:00 3k 560k -0.72 Nc6-d4 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-a5 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3
4 00:00 4k 623k -0.80 Nc6-d4 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-b5 Nd5xb4 Nd4xf3 g2xf3 Kb5xb4
4 00:00 5k 640k -0.40 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 c4-c3 b2xc3
5 00:00 6k 610k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
5 00:00 7k 651k -0.40 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
6 00:00 8k 581k -0.40 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
7- 00:00 10k 628k -0.48 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Kf2-e3
7- 00:00 14k 644k -0.56 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Kf2-e3
7 00:00 17k 640k -0.68 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Kf2-e3
7 00:00 20k 668k -0.56 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-d7 Kf2-e3 c4-c3 b2xc3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4
8 00:00 35k 701k -0.60 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-b7 Kf2-e3 c4-c3 b2xc3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4
9+ 00:00 57k 781k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3 f5xe4 Ng3xe4 Rg8-d8
9+ 00:00 67k 833k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3 f5xe4 Ng3xe4 Rg8-d8
9 00:00 90k 948k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-g4 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3
10 00:00 123k 1,019k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-g4 Nh5-g3 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Bg4-c8 c2-c3 a4-a3 b2xa3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3+ Kb5-c5
11 00:00 193k 1,108k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-g4 Nh5-g3 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Bg4-d7 Ng3-e2 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
12 00:00 522k 1,741k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 h2-h3 Nc6-e5 Nd5-e7 Rg8-f8 Ke3-d4 Rf8-f7 Kd4xe5 Rf7xe7+ Ke5-d6 Re7-f7
13+ 00:00 814k 2,141k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 h2-h3 Nc6-e5 Nd5-e7 Rg8-e8 Ne7-d5 Re8-g8
13 00:00 864k 2,176k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nf4-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nc7xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 Nd4-f5+ Kd6-e6
14- 00:00 975k 2,227k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nc7-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nf4xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-d3 Nc4-e5+ Kd3-e2
14 00:00 1,133k 2,381k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nc7-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nf4xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 Nd4-f5+ Kd6-c5 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
15- 00:00 1,473k 2,688k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3 Rg8-b8 Ra1-d1 Rb8xb2 Rd1xd7
15+ 00:00 2,069k 3,097k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ra1-b1 Kb5-c4 Rb1-b2 Bd7-b5
15- 00:00 2,405k 3,308k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nf4-d3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-d4 b3-b2 Ra1-b1
15 00:00 2,656k 3,449k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nf4-d3+ Kc5-d6
16- 00:00 2,842k 3,534k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 Nd5-b4 b3xc2 Rd1xd7 c2-c1Q Nf4-d3+
16 00:00 3,125k 3,680k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 Nd5-b4 Rg8-f8 Rd1xd7 Rf8xf4 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nb4-d3+ Kc5-c6
17+ 00:00 3,502k 3,930k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-d8 Nd5-f6 c4-c3 Rd1-d5+ Kc5-b6
17- 00:00 4,208k 4,351k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-d8 Nd5-f6 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2
17+ 00:01 5,270k 4,843k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-h8 Nh5-f6 a4-a3 Nf6xd7+ Ne5xd7
17 00:01 5,298k 4,843k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Bd7-c6 Nh5-f6 Rg8-g7 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3 Rg7-f7 Nf6-d5 Ne5-d3
18- 00:01 7,356k 5,702k -0.40 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nf4-e6 Bd7xe6 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nc7xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-d3 Nc4-e5+ Kd3-e2
18 00:01 9,058k 6,242k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-b7 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ra1-b1 Kb5-c4 Ng3-e2 Ne5-d7
19- 00:01 13,076k 7,434k -0.56 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-b7 Nh5-f4 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nf4-e6 b3-b2 Ra1-b1
19+ 00:02 20,064k 8,690k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ke3-d4 Ne5-c6+ Kd4-d3 Nc6-e5+
19 00:02 24,195k 9,203k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 Rd1-b1 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 Rg8-e8 Rb1xb3 Re8xe4+ Ke2-d3 Re4-e5
20 00:02 26,245k 9,353k -0.20 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 c2-c3 b4-b3 Nd5-b4 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-f8 Nb4-d5 Bd7-c6 Nh5-f6 h7-h6
21+ 00:03 40,512k 10,531k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-g3 Nc6-e5 Ke3-f4 Ne5-g4 Ng3-f5 Bd7xf5 e4xf5 Ng4-f6 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-e6 c4-c3
21 00:04 44,917k 10,634k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nb4-d3 Bb7-c6 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Nd3xe5 Re8xe5 Kd4-e3+ Kd6-e6
22- 00:04 48,805k 10,724k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nb4-d3 Bb7-c6 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Nd3-b4 a4-a3 Nb4xc6 Ne5xc6+ Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e5 Kc4xb3 a3xb2 Kb3xb2
22+ 00:04 53,854k 10,944k -0.08 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nb4-d3 Bb7-c6 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Nd3-b4 a4-a3 Nb4xc6 Ne5xc6+ Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e5 Kc4xb3 a3xb2 Kb3xb2
22 00:05 55,384k 10,982k -0.20 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3
23- 00:05 60,708k 11,090k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3 Rd1-d2
23 00:05 66,011k 11,236k -0.20 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3 Rd1-d2
24- 00:06 75,463k 11,491k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3 Rd1-d2
24 00:07 87,405k 11,702k -0.32 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 a4-a3 Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e7 Nc3-d5+ Ke7-d8 Na6-c5 Ng4-f2 Nc5-b7+ Kd8-c8 Nb7-d6+ Kc8-d8
25- 00:10 135,187k 12,393k -0.44 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 a4-a3 Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e7 Kc4xb3 Bd7-e6+ Nc3-d5+ Be6xd5+ Rd1xd5 Re8-a8 Na6-b4 a3xb2 Nb4-c6+ Ke7-e6 Nc6-d4+
25 00:12 159,750k 12,510k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 a4-a3 Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e7 Kc4xb3 Bd7-e6+ Nc3-d5+ Be6xd5+ Rd1xd5 a3xb2 Kb3xb2 Ng4xh2 Na6-c5 Nh2-g4 Kb2-c3 Ng4-e3 Rd5-e5+ Ke7-d8 Re5xe8+ Kd8xe8 g2-g3
26+ 00:14 177,709k 12,608k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Na6-c5 Bd7-c6 Nd5-e7 Kd6xe7 Kd4xe5 Rf8-f6
26 00:14 180,848k 12,615k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Na6-c5 Bd7-c6 Nd5-b6 a4-a3 b2xa3 Rf8-b8 Nc5-d3 Ne5xd3 Nb6-c4+ Kd6-e6 Rd1xd3
27+ 00:18 238,488k 12,858k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6xd5 Nb4xd5 Rg8-c8 Rd1-a1 Rc8-c2 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Ra1xa4 Ne5-c6+ Kd4-d3 Nc6-e5+
27+ 01:00 735,366k 12,106k -0.04 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-b1 Nc6-e5 Nf4-d5 Kb5-c5 Rb1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Rd1-b1 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-f2 Bd7-a4 Nh5-f4 Rg8-e8 Nf4-d3+ Kc5-d6
27 01:54 1,471,640k 12,843k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 Rg8-a8 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3 a4-a3 Rd1-a1 Ra8-b8 b2xa3 Rb8-b3 Nf4-e2 Bd7-a4 Ke3-d2 Rb3-b2+ Kd2-e3 Rb2-b3
28 02:04 1,604,751k 12,878k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 Rg8-a8 Nd5-c7 Ra8-a7 Nc7-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nf4xe6+ Kc5-c6 Rd1-b1 a4-a3 b2xa3 b4xa3 Ke3-d2 Kc6-d6 Ne6-d4 a3-a2 Rb1-a1 Kd6-c5 Kd2-c3 g7-g6 Nd4-e6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 Kd6-c5
29- 02:36 2,023,316k 12,945k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 Ne5-d3 Nd5xb4 Nd3xb2 Ke3-d4
29 02:54 2,223,738k 12,727k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 b4xc3 b2xc3 Kb5-c5 g2-g4 Bd7-c6 Nd5-f4 Bc6-d7 Ra1-d1 Ne5-d3 Nf4xd3+ c4xd3 Nh5-f4 a4-a3 Nf4xd3+ Kc5-c4 Rd1-a1 Rg8-a8 Ke3-d2 Bd7-b5 Nd3-f4 a3-a2 Kd2-c2 Bb5-a4+ Kc2-b2 Ra8-b8+ Kb2xa2 Ba4-b3+ Ka2-a3 Rb8-a8+ Ka3-b2 Ra8xa1 Kb2xa1 Bb3-d1 Ka1-b2 Bd1xf3
30 03:08 2,383,640k 12,614k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 b4xc3 b2xc3 Kb5-c5 g2-g4 Bd7-c6 Nd5-f4 Bc6-d7 Ra1-d1 Ne5-d3 Nf4-d5 Bd7-b5 Rd1-b1 Nd3-e5 Nd5-f4 Bb5-d7 Rb1-d1
31+ 03:27 2,625,006k 12,631k -0.08 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 b4xc3 b2xc3 Kb5-c5 g2-g4 Bd7-c6 Nd5-f4 Bc6-d7 Ra1-d1 Ne5-d3 Nf4-d5 Bd7-b5 Rd1-b1 Nd3-e5 Nd5-f4 Bb5-d7 Rb1-d1
31 04:43 3,389,391k 11,956k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
32 05:13 3,711,086k 11,844k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
33 06:19 4,448,158k 11,719k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
34 08:23 5,889,387k 11,697k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
35 10:33 7,582,948k 11,976k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
36 20:44 16,362,663k 13,149k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
37 27:04 21,836,021k 13,444k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
38 40:42 33,678,838k 13,790k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
39 1:04:34 54,710,170k 14,122k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
40 1:48:05 92,215,716k 14,218k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
40+ 2:06:29 107,616,902k 14,180k +0.08 Kb6-a5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-e6 Nd5-e3 Ka5-b5 Nh5-f4 Be6-f7 Nf4-d5 Bf7xd5 e4xd5 Nc6-d4 d5-d6
40+ 2:22:03 120,720,334k 14,163k +0.16 Kb6-a5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 h2-h3 Nc6-a7 Nf4-d5 f5xe4
40+ 2:59:56 152,733,924k 14,146k +0.32 Kb6-a5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-e6 Nh5-f4 Be6xd5 e4xd5 Nc6-d4 Nf4-e6 Nd4xe6
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Uri Blass
Posts: 10969
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by Uri Blass »

chrisw wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 6:14 pm A shot at "positional knowledge", proviso SF is not sentient and knows nothing in a human sense:

Ka5 takes the king further from potential knight checks down the tree and therefore decreases white's effective mobility.
Kb5 might allow Nc3+ in some variations down the tree and this could be a tempo gaining forking check for white, courtesy of white Ra1, onto the black pawn a4.

Where to place your king in relation to enemy knights in positions like these is a positional knowledge heuristic. Not a hard and fast rule, but one tries to optimise the statistics.
Uri Blass wrote: ↑Sat Nov 15, 2025 1:32 pm [d]2b3r1/6pp/1kn2p2/7N/ppp1PN2/5P2/1PP2KPP/R7 b - - 1 28

Old stockfish needs a long time to understand that black is better and to find Ka5(Kb5 probably does not win)
I wonder if you understand why Ka5 is winning and why it is better than Kb5 when a5 seems for me to be worse square for the king relative to b5 based on positional knowledge.

Stockfish-191-64-ja:
1 00:00 2k 546k -0.28 Kb6-b5
2 00:00 2k 570k -0.64 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5
2 00:00 2k 594k -0.56 Nc6-d4 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-b5
3 00:00 3k 560k -0.72 Nc6-d4 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-a5 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3
4 00:00 4k 623k -0.80 Nc6-d4 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-b5 Nd5xb4 Nd4xf3 g2xf3 Kb5xb4
4 00:00 5k 640k -0.40 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 c4-c3 b2xc3
5 00:00 6k 610k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
5 00:00 7k 651k -0.40 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
6 00:00 8k 581k -0.40 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
7- 00:00 10k 628k -0.48 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Kf2-e3
7- 00:00 14k 644k -0.56 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Kf2-e3
7 00:00 17k 640k -0.68 c4-c3 Nf4-d5+ Kb6-c5 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Kf2-e3
7 00:00 20k 668k -0.56 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-d7 Kf2-e3 c4-c3 b2xc3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4
8 00:00 35k 701k -0.60 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-b7 Kf2-e3 c4-c3 b2xc3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4
9+ 00:00 57k 781k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3 f5xe4 Ng3xe4 Rg8-d8
9+ 00:00 67k 833k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3 f5xe4 Ng3xe4 Rg8-d8
9 00:00 90k 948k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-g4 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3
10 00:00 123k 1,019k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-g4 Nh5-g3 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Bg4-c8 c2-c3 a4-a3 b2xa3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3+ Kb5-c5
11 00:00 193k 1,108k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-g4 Nh5-g3 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Bg4-d7 Ng3-e2 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
12 00:00 522k 1,741k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 h2-h3 Nc6-e5 Nd5-e7 Rg8-f8 Ke3-d4 Rf8-f7 Kd4xe5 Rf7xe7+ Ke5-d6 Re7-f7
13+ 00:00 814k 2,141k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 h2-h3 Nc6-e5 Nd5-e7 Rg8-e8 Ne7-d5 Re8-g8
13 00:00 864k 2,176k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nf4-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nc7xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 Nd4-f5+ Kd6-e6
14- 00:00 975k 2,227k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nc7-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nf4xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-d3 Nc4-e5+ Kd3-e2
14 00:00 1,133k 2,381k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nc7-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nf4xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 Nd4-f5+ Kd6-c5 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3
15- 00:00 1,473k 2,688k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3 Rg8-b8 Ra1-d1 Rb8xb2 Rd1xd7
15+ 00:00 2,069k 3,097k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ra1-b1 Kb5-c4 Rb1-b2 Bd7-b5
15- 00:00 2,405k 3,308k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nf4-d3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-d4 b3-b2 Ra1-b1
15 00:00 2,656k 3,449k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nf4-d3+ Kc5-d6
16- 00:00 2,842k 3,534k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 Nd5-b4 b3xc2 Rd1xd7 c2-c1Q Nf4-d3+
16 00:00 3,125k 3,680k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 b4-b3 Nd5-b4 Rg8-f8 Rd1xd7 Rf8xf4 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nb4-d3+ Kc5-c6
17+ 00:00 3,502k 3,930k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-d8 Nd5-f6 c4-c3 Rd1-d5+ Kc5-b6
17- 00:00 4,208k 4,351k -0.48 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-d8 Nd5-f6 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2
17+ 00:01 5,270k 4,843k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-h8 Nh5-f6 a4-a3 Nf6xd7+ Ne5xd7
17 00:01 5,298k 4,843k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Bd7-c6 Nh5-f6 Rg8-g7 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3 Rg7-f7 Nf6-d5 Ne5-d3
18- 00:01 7,356k 5,702k -0.40 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nf4-e6 Bd7xe6 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c5 Nc7xe6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 c4-c3 b2xc3 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-d3 Nc4-e5+ Kd3-e2
18 00:01 9,058k 6,242k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-b7 Nh5-g3 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ra1-b1 Kb5-c4 Ng3-e2 Ne5-d7
19- 00:01 13,076k 7,434k -0.56 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-b7 Nh5-f4 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nf4-e6 b3-b2 Ra1-b1
19+ 00:02 20,064k 8,690k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Ke3-d4 Ne5-c6+ Kd4-d3 Nc6-e5+
19 00:02 24,195k 9,203k -0.12 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 Rd1-b1 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-e2 Rg8-e8 Rb1xb3 Re8xe4+ Ke2-d3 Re4-e5
20 00:02 26,245k 9,353k -0.20 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Nc6-e5 h2-h3 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 c2-c3 b4-b3 Nd5-b4 g7-g5 Nf4-h5 Rg8-f8 Nb4-d5 Bd7-c6 Nh5-f6 h7-h6
21+ 00:03 40,512k 10,531k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-g3 Nc6-e5 Ke3-f4 Ne5-g4 Ng3-f5 Bd7xf5 e4xf5 Ng4-f6 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-e6 c4-c3
21 00:04 44,917k 10,634k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nb4-d3 Bb7-c6 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Nd3xe5 Re8xe5 Kd4-e3+ Kd6-e6
22- 00:04 48,805k 10,724k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nb4-d3 Bb7-c6 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Nd3-b4 a4-a3 Nb4xc6 Ne5xc6+ Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e5 Kc4xb3 a3xb2 Kb3xb2
22+ 00:04 53,854k 10,944k -0.08 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nb4-d3 Bb7-c6 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Nd3-b4 a4-a3 Nb4xc6 Ne5xc6+ Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e5 Kc4xb3 a3xb2 Kb3xb2
22 00:05 55,384k 10,982k -0.20 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3
23- 00:05 60,708k 11,090k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3 Rd1-d2
23 00:05 66,011k 11,236k -0.20 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3 Rd1-d2
24- 00:06 75,463k 11,491k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6-b7 Nc3-b5+ Kd6-d7 Kd4-c3+ Kd7-e7 Nb5-d6 Ng4-e3 Rd1-d2
24 00:07 87,405k 11,702k -0.32 Kb6-b5 Nf4-d5 f6-f5 Kf2-e3 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 a4-a3 Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e7 Nc3-d5+ Ke7-d8 Na6-c5 Ng4-f2 Nc5-b7+ Kd8-c8 Nb7-d6+ Kc8-d8
25- 00:10 135,187k 12,393k -0.44 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 a4-a3 Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e7 Kc4xb3 Bd7-e6+ Nc3-d5+ Be6xd5+ Rd1xd5 Re8-a8 Na6-b4 a3xb2 Nb4-c6+ Ke7-e6 Nc6-d4+
25 00:12 159,750k 12,510k -0.36 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-e8 Nd5-c3 a4-a3 Kd4-c4+ Kd6-e7 Kc4xb3 Bd7-e6+ Nc3-d5+ Be6xd5+ Rd1xd5 a3xb2 Kb3xb2 Ng4xh2 Na6-c5 Nh2-g4 Kb2-c3 Ng4-e3 Rd5-e5+ Ke7-d8 Re5xe8+ Kd8xe8 g2-g3
26+ 00:14 177,709k 12,608k -0.24 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Na6-c5 Bd7-c6 Nd5-e7 Kd6xe7 Kd4xe5 Rf8-f6
26 00:14 180,848k 12,615k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Na6-c5 Bd7-c6 Nd5-b6 a4-a3 b2xa3 Rf8-b8 Nc5-d3 Ne5xd3 Nb6-c4+ Kd6-e6 Rd1xd3
27+ 00:18 238,488k 12,858k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Bc8-d7 Nh5-f4 Nc6-e5 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-c6 Nf4-d5 Kc6-d6 Ra1-d1 Ne5-g4+ Ke3-d4 b4-b3 c2xb3 c4xb3 Nc7-a6 Bd7-c6 Na6-b4 Bc6xd5 Nb4xd5 Rg8-c8 Rd1-a1 Rc8-c2 h2-h3 Ng4-e5 Ra1xa4 Ne5-c6+ Kd4-d3 Nc6-e5+
27+ 01:00 735,366k 12,106k -0.04 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Ra1-b1 Nc6-e5 Nf4-d5 Kb5-c5 Rb1-d1 c4-c3 b2xc3 b4-b3 c2xb3 a4xb3 Rd1-b1 Ne5-c4+ Ke3-f2 Bd7-a4 Nh5-f4 Rg8-e8 Nf4-d3+ Kc5-d6
27 01:54 1,471,640k 12,843k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 Rg8-a8 c2-c3 b4xc3 Nd5xc3 a4-a3 Rd1-a1 Ra8-b8 b2xa3 Rb8-b3 Nf4-e2 Bd7-a4 Ke3-d2 Rb3-b2+ Kd2-e3 Rb2-b3
28 02:04 1,604,751k 12,878k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 Nh5-f4 Kb5-c5 Ra1-d1 Rg8-a8 Nd5-c7 Ra8-a7 Nc7-e6+ Bd7xe6 Nf4xe6+ Kc5-c6 Rd1-b1 a4-a3 b2xa3 b4xa3 Ke3-d2 Kc6-d6 Ne6-d4 a3-a2 Rb1-a1 Kd6-c5 Kd2-c3 g7-g6 Nd4-e6+ Kc5-d6 Ne6-d4 Kd6-c5
29- 02:36 2,023,316k 12,945k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 Ne5-d3 Nd5xb4 Nd3xb2 Ke3-d4
29 02:54 2,223,738k 12,727k -0.16 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 b4xc3 b2xc3 Kb5-c5 g2-g4 Bd7-c6 Nd5-f4 Bc6-d7 Ra1-d1 Ne5-d3 Nf4xd3+ c4xd3 Nh5-f4 a4-a3 Nf4xd3+ Kc5-c4 Rd1-a1 Rg8-a8 Ke3-d2 Bd7-b5 Nd3-f4 a3-a2 Kd2-c2 Bb5-a4+ Kc2-b2 Ra8-b8+ Kb2xa2 Ba4-b3+ Ka2-a3 Rb8-a8+ Ka3-b2 Ra8xa1 Kb2xa1 Bb3-d1 Ka1-b2 Bd1xf3
30 03:08 2,383,640k 12,614k -0.28 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 b4xc3 b2xc3 Kb5-c5 g2-g4 Bd7-c6 Nd5-f4 Bc6-d7 Ra1-d1 Ne5-d3 Nf4-d5 Bd7-b5 Rd1-b1 Nd3-e5 Nd5-f4 Bb5-d7 Rb1-d1
31+ 03:27 2,625,006k 12,631k -0.08 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 Bc8-d7 Nf4-d5 Nc6-e5 c2-c3 b4xc3 b2xc3 Kb5-c5 g2-g4 Bd7-c6 Nd5-f4 Bc6-d7 Ra1-d1 Ne5-d3 Nf4-d5 Bd7-b5 Rd1-b1 Nd3-e5 Nd5-f4 Bb5-d7 Rb1-d1
31 04:43 3,389,391k 11,956k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
32 05:13 3,711,086k 11,844k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
33 06:19 4,448,158k 11,719k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
34 08:23 5,889,387k 11,697k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
35 10:33 7,582,948k 11,976k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5-f4 Rf8-f7 c2-c3 a4-a3 c3xb4 Nc6xb4 Nd5xb4 a3xb2 Ra1-b1 Kb5xb4 Rb1xb2+ Kb4-c5 Rb2-a2 Bc8-d7 Ra2-c2 Kc5-b4 Nf4-d5+ Kb4-c5 Nd5-f4
36 20:44 16,362,663k 13,149k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
37 27:04 21,836,021k 13,444k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
38 40:42 33,678,838k 13,790k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
39 1:04:34 54,710,170k 14,122k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
40 1:48:05 92,215,716k 14,218k 0.00 Kb6-b5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 Nf4-d5 f5xe4 f3xe4 Rg8-f8 Nh5xg7 Rf8-g8 Ng7-f5 Bc8xf5 e4xf5 Rg8xg2 Nd5-c7+ Kb5-b6 Nc7-d5+ Kb6-c5 Ke3-e4 Rg2xc2 f5-f6 Rc2-e2+ Nd5-e3 Re2-f2 Ne3-g4 Rf2-e2+ Ng4-e3
40+ 2:06:29 107,616,902k 14,180k +0.08 Kb6-a5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-e6 Nd5-e3 Ka5-b5 Nh5-f4 Be6-f7 Nf4-d5 Bf7xd5 e4xd5 Nc6-d4 d5-d6
40+ 2:22:03 120,720,334k 14,163k +0.16 Kb6-a5 Kf2-e3 f6-f5 h2-h3 Nc6-a7 Nf4-d5 f5xe4
40+ 2:59:56 152,733,924k 14,146k +0.32 Kb6-a5 Nf4-d5 Bc8-e6 Nh5-f4 Be6xd5 e4xd5 Nc6-d4 Nf4-e6 Nd4xe6

For me Ka5 was a surprising move because I know that basically you need to centralize the king in the endgame.

Ka5 also put a4 inside a pin so i thought Kb5 is better because black maybe is going to play later Ra8 to push the a pawn.
Of course I did not calculate long lines and I can understand after seeing that Ka5 is better based on computer anlysis that probably Ka5 is better to avoid future Nc3+ but I wonder how many humans really understand it. I am not a top player and maybe stronger human players understand chess better than me and could understand that Ka5 is better without looking at analysis of chess engines.
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peter
Posts: 3440
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 7:38 am
Full name: Peter Martan

Re: positional understanding of new chess engines

Post by peter »

Eelco de Groot wrote: ↑Sun Nov 16, 2025 5:39 pm I take it that you did not play that 'return' game as yet where Stockfish has to win against Plentychess with Ka5?
You did see the games in first posting of mine in this one thread also, didn't you? So the 2xdraws without Syzygys of the avx512- compiles were already both repeated by the .bmi1- compiles with 6men and some longer TC already, the question, if 1...Kb5 can be hold at all seemed the more difficult one to me and so the one 0-1 of SF against PlentyChess would be more reason to have there statistical answers out of more games with more engines and hardware- TCs, anyhow that would be a test position for eng-eng-game playing better than the one after 1...Ka5, which should give 2 x won (by Black) drawn game pairs anyhow from a certain hardware- software- time quality at each one try at all. When I have Syzygys installed at new machine and have some more hardware- time free again then, I'll maybe repeat the one or the other one game between SF and PlentyChess with Plenty playing Black (or maybe a try with Lc0 with Black instead) to see, if the in rating lists highest ranked engine can be beaten repeatedly even from some lower ranked ones after 1...Kb5 too, which I doubt, or SF could lose with White after 1...Kb5 again. It won't be soon and I won't come back here with it at all, if not for surprising results like more full points after 1...Kb5 or more draws after 1...Ka5. The latter case I'd be even more surprised about, regards
Peter.
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