Todays report

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

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Tony Thomas

Re: Todays report

Post by Tony Thomas »

CRoberson wrote:
Please provide me with clarification on the Rd 7 statement.
Why did you feel the need to reboot? What was happening
at that point?
Romi was just losing on time, it didnt look like the engine was connected to winboard properly. Kind of similar to the day I point out to you that telepath was losing on time. It was a dead drawn position, if you want to take a look at it. I am not sure if the engine had crashed. Oh darn, my first time operating a program in an online tournament, I managed to cause so many rule violations. :cry: It's fine if you penalize me, I guess I should have kept my big mouth shut..I told people at ch 64 that I was going to reconnect during the prophet game, anyone got the logs? May be I should be allowed to participate without kibitz, diep didnt kibitz in some of its games, thinker only kibitzed few times in the game against me.
Last edited by Tony Thomas on Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:19 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tony Thomas

Re: Todays report

Post by Tony Thomas »

jswaff wrote:
Good point!

But, then it was not Romi messing up. It was caused by using polyglot. Tony was just correcting what went wrong with polyglot.

Hey Tony, best to just use winboard by itself and forget about a book.

If there is a complaint against what was done then we will have to bite the bullet.
Prophet is my engine, and I have no complaint. Best of luck to Romi in the remainder of the tournament.

--
James
James, did you analyze the game? Is it possible for you to post the game for everyone to see? I am pretty sure it was just a blunder from prophet's side.
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Olivier Deville
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Re: Todays report

Post by Olivier Deville »

Michael Sherwin wrote:These time problems under Polyglot kind of suck. Still a nice result given the problems and the hardware. Maybe just using winboard with out an opening book would have been better. Too bad that you do not have Olivier Deville's learn file for Romi! :wink:
Hello Mike

The polyglot issue can be smoothly fixed in several ways : http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 41&t=21875

I am using winboard + polyglot with ponder on here 24 hours a day.

Olivier
Tony Thomas

Re: Todays report

Post by Tony Thomas »

Olivier Deville wrote:
Michael Sherwin wrote:These time problems under Polyglot kind of suck. Still a nice result given the problems and the hardware. Maybe just using winboard with out an opening book would have been better. Too bad that you do not have Olivier Deville's learn file for Romi! :wink:
Hello Mike

The polyglot issue can be smoothly fixed in several ways : http://www.talkchess.com/forum/viewtopi ... 41&t=21875

I am using winboard + polyglot with ponder on here 24 hours a day.

Olivier
Hey Oliver, I am using the modified polyglot as you can see in the thread. Its kind of weird that I noticed the problem only one day before the start of the tournament. Until then I had thought that everything was fine with the regular poly..Then again most of the ICC test games that you get are 2 12 and its impossible to lose on time with that much increment. The only reason I am using polyglot was to use the polyglot books. Robindu was going to help me make a polyglot book with Wael's pgn, but since his PGN wasnt clean (comments/variation) polyglot did not read it properly. I had also told mike to not worry about kibitzing because polyglot did that for me..
Michael Sherwin
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Re: Todays report

Post by Michael Sherwin »

Thanks:

James for not making a complaint!

Olivier for suggesting a solution for Polyglot!

Charles for trying to dispense justice with out using an axe!

Tony for being honest!

:D

Whatever penalty that there must be is fine. :)

I will make a compile that will kabitz and send it to Tony ASAP, as soon as I am done with this message, which is now.
If you are on a sidewalk and the covid goes beep beep
Just step aside or you might have a bit of heat
Covid covid runs through the town all day
Can the people ever change their ways
Sherwin the covid's after you
Sherwin if it catches you you're through
Michael Sherwin
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Re: Todays report

Post by Michael Sherwin »

sent!
If you are on a sidewalk and the covid goes beep beep
Just step aside or you might have a bit of heat
Covid covid runs through the town all day
Can the people ever change their ways
Sherwin the covid's after you
Sherwin if it catches you you're through
Michael Sherwin
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Full name: Michael Sherwin

Re: Todays report

Post by Michael Sherwin »

CRoberson wrote:I had a chat session with Peter (author of Petir) and he said the engine
resigned. It did so due to a bug. The same bug caused a piece drop in
an earlier round. You were lucky in that the bug caused an even
bigger problem this time.

He and I ran some tests and it seems fixed now, but it may not
be. Only time will tell.

On another note: I can't believe you just publicly announce that
you commited the same rules violation in two rounds in the same day.

The point of the two rules in question is to keep people
from disconnecting when their engine is in trouble and then
reconnecting with another stronger engine that is not
authored by themselves.

In such a scenario, the program in question would come back online
playing much better than when it left. This symptom did happen in your
two violations. I am not saying you cheated as I think you didn't.
But, how can I enforce the rule on others, if I don't to you after you
announced it to the world.

During the course of the tournament, one of the other operator's
asked permission to do something similar and I denied the request due
to the only reason was the program was losing.

What some seem to forget in these cases is this: the tournament is
primarily a programming competition and secondly a chess competition.
That is why it is a tournament for authors and that is why you have
to let the program handle everything other than crash recovery and
the like. Bob even has code to handle crash recovery so he doesn't
have to.

For the sake of tournament integrity, it seems I am forced to impose
a penalty. I will not disqualify Romi from the tournament. I consider that
too drastic given the complete situation (I found out from you).

On the thought that it is a polylgot issue. That doesn't cover all the
bases here. In one case you, deleted the learn.dat file thinking it was
holding you back after the game had started. The learn.dat has
nothing to do with Polyglot; it is a Romi feature. Doing this is allowed
between rounds, but not after a game has started and before the
same game is finished. Notice I said "... after the game has started..."
instead of "... after the round has started...". You can make a change
after the round starts as long as your game hasn't started. But, even
that rule has its limits.

Please provide me with clarification on the Rd 7 statement.
Why did you feel the need to reboot? What was happening
at that point?
I see that you reversed the result against ProphetX and gave ProphetX the win, which is quite alright. But, when Tony deleted the learn file it made no difference in the outcome of the game, because Romi was no longer using the learn file at that time. Taking a point away from Romi is just because of the rules infractions and I will just leave it there.
If you are on a sidewalk and the covid goes beep beep
Just step aside or you might have a bit of heat
Covid covid runs through the town all day
Can the people ever change their ways
Sherwin the covid's after you
Sherwin if it catches you you're through
Michael Sherwin
Posts: 3196
Joined: Fri May 26, 2006 3:00 am
Location: WY, USA
Full name: Michael Sherwin

Re: Todays report

Post by Michael Sherwin »

CRoberson wrote:I had a chat session with Peter (author of Petir) and he said the engine
resigned. It did so due to a bug. The same bug caused a piece drop in
an earlier round. You were lucky in that the bug caused an even
bigger problem this time.

He and I ran some tests and it seems fixed now, but it may not
be. Only time will tell.

On another note: I can't believe you just publicly announce that
you commited the same rules violation in two rounds in the same day.

The point of the two rules in question is to keep people
from disconnecting when their engine is in trouble and then
reconnecting with another stronger engine that is not
authored by themselves.

In such a scenario, the program in question would come back online
playing much better than when it left. This symptom did happen in your
two violations. I am not saying you cheated as I think you didn't.
But, how can I enforce the rule on others, if I don't to you after you
announced it to the world.

During the course of the tournament, one of the other operator's
asked permission to do something similar and I denied the request due
to the only reason was the program was losing.

What some seem to forget in these cases is this: the tournament is
primarily a programming competition and secondly a chess competition.
That is why it is a tournament for authors and that is why you have
to let the program handle everything other than crash recovery and
the like. Bob even has code to handle crash recovery so he doesn't
have to.

For the sake of tournament integrity, it seems I am forced to impose
a penalty. I will not disqualify Romi from the tournament. I consider that
too drastic given the complete situation (I found out from you).

On the thought that it is a polylgot issue. That doesn't cover all the
bases here. In one case you, deleted the learn.dat file thinking it was
holding you back after the game had started. The learn.dat has
nothing to do with Polyglot; it is a Romi feature. Doing this is allowed
between rounds, but not after a game has started and before the
same game is finished. Notice I said "... after the game has started..."
instead of "... after the round has started...". You can make a change
after the round starts as long as your game hasn't started. But, even
that rule has its limits.

Please provide me with clarification on the Rd 7 statement.
Why did you feel the need to reboot? What was happening
at that point?
I see that you reversed the result against ProphetX and gave ProphetX the win, which is quite alright. But, when Tony deleted the learn file it made no difference in the outcome of the game, because Romi was no longer using the learn file at that time. Taking a point away from Romi is just because of the rules infractions and I will just leave it there.
If you are on a sidewalk and the covid goes beep beep
Just step aside or you might have a bit of heat
Covid covid runs through the town all day
Can the people ever change their ways
Sherwin the covid's after you
Sherwin if it catches you you're through
Tony Thomas

Re: Todays report

Post by Tony Thomas »

Did he really do that? I guess I must clear the cache, because all I see is 5.5 points for Romi which is what she got..I have no problems about him reversing the result, I am a first timer, so I made some newbie mistakes. I guess it gave us some valuable input, when you deduce all the possible, you get the culprit. In this case, all my hypothesis were wrong, Romi is the sole cause of her time problems. Romi wont lose on time, it just uses around 90 seconds per move for the first 15 moves after the book, by the time 16th moves rolls around, its already down by about 12 minutes. Since everyone was watching me today, I couldnt use the hexedited Rybka at the last minute. :lol: The luck against Petir actually made it hard for Romi today. Romi's first opponet was CTD (THE GIVER), and we did have an even position with rooks and pawns placed properly and both kings at the right places. By that time Romi only had about 2 minutes, and one three ply move everything was done. Next game was against Yace I believe, and even though yace played the dubious 1. h3 line, Romi couldnt take advantage of it. The game against Amateur also showed that using up too much time early in the game can cost you..The only opponent that I would say that I received that I could beat anyday was Roce. Again, Romi still had time problems (running as a pure wb engine with no adapters), but Roce as most of us know wasnt Romi's range..The final game was against ZCT, Zach told me that he was going to smoke me, I did expect Romi to win in this game because Romi is much stronger than ZCT on a single core. However, having hardware about 4 times slower, and ZCT being able to finally use 2 cores reduced my chances a lot. Also, Romi doesnt have much clue about endgame. Towards the end, it was Romi (NN) vs ZCT (2pawns, and a bishop), Romi's knights were just dancing around instead of trying to capture those pawns..and Romi didnt realize until it was too late that she was losing. Oh well, may be next time.

Later
Tony
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Zach Wegner
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Location: Earth

Re: Todays report

Post by Zach Wegner »

Tony Thomas wrote:The final game was against ZCT, Zach told me that he was going to smoke me, I did expect Romi to win in this game because Romi is much stronger than ZCT on a single core. However, having hardware about 4 times slower, and ZCT being able to finally use 2 cores reduced my chances a lot. Also, Romi doesnt have much clue about endgame. Towards the end, it was Romi (NN) vs ZCT (2pawns, and a bishop), Romi's knights were just dancing around instead of trying to capture those pawns..and Romi didnt realize until it was too late that she was losing. Oh well, may be next time.
Haha, of course you realize I was playing about the whole smoking thing. I think it was also luck on ZCT's side, anything can happen in one game. Romi was searching pretty deeply considering the hardware disadvantage, but I think ZCT having marginally more passed pawn eval helped it win. I see you also stole my dancing analogy. :twisted: Nice game though, very entertaining.

I'm writing up my tournament report now, I should probably finish it tomorrow.