Peter?

[plattyaj]

So, I discarded all of the dross and it turns out there are 17 positions in the suite, and almost all of them are trivial for any engine to solve in less than a second.

This one doesn't appear correct:

[d]8/5P1k/2r5/p4K2/P7/6R1/8/8 w - - bm f8=R; id "Underpromotion 07";

Schola agrees with it until ply 13 but then realizes that it can defer the promotion a couple of moves:

Code: Select all

13 550 109 1245875 f8=R Rc5+ Kf6 Rc6+ Ke5 Rc5+ Kd4 Rh5 Rg4 Rh2 Rf7+ Kh6 Rgg7 Kh5 Kd5 Re2
13 627 126 1466246 Rg8 Rc5+ Ke4 Rc4+ Kd5 Rf4 f8=Q Rxf8 Rxf8 Kh6 Ra8 Kg5 Rxa5 Kf4
13 627 142 1684885 Rg8 Rc5+ Ke4 Rc4+ Kd5 Rf4 f8=Q Rxf8 Rxf8 Kh6 Ra8 Kg5 Rxa5 Kf4
14 627 151 1812769 Rg8 Rc5+ Ke4 Rc4+ Kd5 Rf4 f8=Q Rxf8 Rxf8 Kg6 Ra8 Kf5 Rxa5 Kf4
14 627 187 2344542 Rg8 Rc5+ Ke4 Rc4+ Kd5 Rf4 f8=Q Rxf8 Rxf8 Kg6 Ra8 Kf5 Rxa5 Kf4
15 647 211 2652583 Rg8 Rc5+ Ke4 Rc4+ Kd5 Rf4 f8=Q Rxf8 Rxf8 Kg6 Ra8 Kf5 Rxa5 Kf6 Ra7 Kf5
15 647 309 4061693 Rg8 Rc5+ Ke4 Rc4+ Kd5 Rf4 f8=Q Rxf8 Rxf8 Kg6 Ra8 Kf5 Rxa5 Kf6 Ra7 Kf5
16 648 347 4581952 Rg8 Rc5+ Ke4 Rc4+ Kd5 Rf4 f8=Q Rxf8 Rxf8 Kg6 Ra8 Kg5 Rxa5 Kf5 Ra7 Kf4 a5
16 648 518 7068910 Rg8 Rc5+ Ke4 Rc4+ Kd5 Rf4 f8=Q Rxf8 Rxf8 Kg6 Ra8 Kg5 Rxa5 Kf5 Ra7 Kf4 a5
17 648 604 8266701 Rg8 Rc5+ Kf6 Rc6+ Ke5 Rc5+ Ke4

Well, so much for Schola you might say but Crafty says the same thing.

Andy.

[Ron Murawski]

Where is Crimson in the list?



Christopher

"There are too many clones to list them all, so I want to list those that fooled us long enough to play in a major tournament."
http://computer-chess.org/doku.php?id=c ... ngine_list

It didn't fool us (you, actually) long enough to get a listing. But xyclOps did!

Ron

[JVMerlino]

That one did pose a bit of a problem, as I wasn't 100% sure about it. After a bit more lengthy analysis, it does look like Rg8 is better. I'm pretty sure that White can force mate in 13 moves with Rg8, but not as quickly with f8=R.

[d] 8/5P1k/2r5/p4K2/P7/6R1/8/8 w - - 0 1

1.Rg8 Rc2 2.Rh8+ Kxh8 3.f8=Q+ Kh7 4.Qf7+ Kh8 5.Qb7 Rc4 6.Qg2 Rc8
7.Qh1+ Kg8 8.Kf6 Rf8+ 9.Kg6 Rf5 10.Qa8+ Rf8 11.Qd5+ Rf7 12.Qxf7+
Kh8 13.Qg7#

jm

[pavel]

That one did pose a bit of a problem, as I wasn't 100% sure about it. After a bit more lengthy analysis, it does look like Rg8 is better. I'm pretty sure that White can force mate in 13 moves with Rg8, but not as quickly with f8=R.

8/5P1k/2r5/p4K2/P7/6R1/8/8 w - - 0 1

1.Rg8 Rc2 2.Rh8+ Kxh8 3.f8=Q+ Kh7 4.Qf7+ Kh8 5.Qb7 Rc4 6.Qg2 Rc8
7.Qh1+ Kg8 8.Kf6 Rf8+ 9.Kg6 Rf5 10.Qa8+ Rf8 11.Qd5+ Rf7 12.Qxf7+
Kh8 13.Qg7#

jm

Yace calls it in one minute:


[d] 8/5P1k/2r5/p4K2/P7/6R1/8/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Yace Paderborn:

1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Kh6
+- (5.64) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Kh6
+- (5.64) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Kh6
+- (5.64) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Kh6
+- (5.64) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Kh6
+- (5.64) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Kh6
+- (5.64) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rc7 4.Rh3+ Kg6 5.Ke5
+- (5.72) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rc7 4.Rh3+ Kg6 5.Ke5
+- (5.72) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rc7 4.Rh3+ Kg6 5.Ke5
+- (5.72) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rc7 4.Rh3+ Kg6 5.Ke5
+- (5.72) Depth: 4 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rc7 4.Rh3+ Kg6 5.Ke5
+- (5.72) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rc7 4.Rh3+ Kg6 5.Ke5
+- (5.72) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rc7 4.Rh3+ Kg6 5.Ke5
+- (5.72) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rc7 4.Rh3+ Kg6 5.Ke5
+- (5.72) Depth: 5 00:00:00
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rc2 4.Rf7+ Kh6 5.Rf6+ Kh5 6.Ke5
+- (5.70) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 30kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rf7
+- (5.71) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 39kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rg3
+- (5.72) Depth: 6/12 00:00:00 42kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rg3
+- (5.72) Depth: 6/14 00:00:00 58kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Rc5+ 4.Kd4 Rf5 5.f8Q Rxf8 6.Rxf8 Kh6
+- (5.71) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 70kN
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rg6 4.Rh3+ Kg7 5.Rhh8 Rg5+ 6.Ke6 Rf5 7.Rxf5 Kxh8
+- (5.72) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 78kN
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rh5 3.Rf7+ Kh6 4.Rf6+ Kh7 5.Rfg6 Rc5
+- (5.82) Depth: 7/14 00:00:00 115kN
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rh5 3.Rf7+ Kh6 4.Rf6+ Kh7 5.Rfg6 Rc5
+- (5.82) Depth: 7/17 00:00:00 138kN
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Ra6 4.Rb8 Rf6 5.Rb5 Ra6 6.Ke4
+- (5.90) Depth: 8/17 00:00:00 256kN
1.f8R Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Ra6 4.Rb8 Rf6 5.Rb5 Ra6 6.Ke4
+- (5.90) Depth: 8/20 00:00:00 344kN
1.f8R Rc7 2.Kg4 Ra7 3.Rf5 Kh6 4.Rh5+ Kg7 5.Kh3+ Kf6 6.Rgg5 Rh7 7.Rxa5
+- (6.29) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 633kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Rc5+ 4.Kd6 Kh6 5.f8Q+ Kh7
+- (6.30) Depth: 9/20 00:00:00 749kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Kh6 4.f8Q+ Kh5
+- (7.30) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 758kN
1.Rg8 Rc2 2.f8Q Rf2+ 3.Ke6 Rxf8 4.Rxf8 Kg7 5.Rf7+ Kh6 6.Rf5 Kg6 7.Rxa5
+- (7.40) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 819kN
1.Rg8 Rc2 2.f8Q Rf2+ 3.Ke6 Rxf8 4.Rxf8 Kg7 5.Rf7+ Kh6 6.Rf5 Kg6 7.Rxa5
+- (7.40) Depth: 9/22 00:00:00 902kN
1.Rg8 Rc2 2.f8Q Rf2+ 3.Ke6 Rf7
+- (7.80) Depth: 10/22 00:00:00 919kN
1.Rg8 Rc2 2.f8Q Rf2+ 3.Ke6 Rf7
+- (8.80) Depth: 10/22 00:00:00 922kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ra8 Kh6 7.Rxa5 Kg7 8.Ra7+ Kf8
+- (10.00) Depth: 10/22 00:00:00 1480kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ra8 Kh6 7.Rxa5 Kg7 8.Ra7+ Kf8
+- (10.00) Depth: 10/26 00:00:00 1682kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ra8 Kh6 7.Rxa5 Kg7
+- (10.00) Depth: 11/26 00:00:00 1815kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ra8 Kh6 7.Rxa5 Kg7
+- (10.00) Depth: 11/26 00:00:00 2224kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ra8 Kh6 7.Rxa5 Kg7
+- (10.00) Depth: 12/26 00:00:01 3059kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ra8 Kh6 7.Rxa5 Kg7
+- (10.00) Depth: 12/30 00:00:01 4121kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rf7
+- (10.40) Depth: 13/30 00:00:02 6567kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Ra6
+- (11.40) Depth: 13/32 00:00:02 7257kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Kf6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Rc5+ 4.Kd4 Rf5 5.f8Q Rd5+ 6.Kc4 Rd4+ 7.Kb5 Rb4+ 8.Kc6 Rc4+ 9.Kd7 Rd4+ 10.Ke7 Re4+ 11.Kd8 Rd4+ 12.Kc7 Rd7+ 13.Kc6 Rc7+ 14.Kd5 Rc5+ 15.Qxc5 Kh6
+- (16.40) Depth: 13/32 00:00:03 9908kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Kf6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Rc5+ 4.Kd6 Rc1 5.f8Q Rd1+ 6.Kc7 Rc1+ 7.Kb8 Rb1+ 8.Ka8 Rb7 9.Rh8+ Kg6 10.Kxb7 Kg5 11.Qd8+ Kf4
+- (16.60) Depth: 13/34 00:00:03 10825kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Kf6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Rc5+ 4.Kd6 Rc1 5.f8Q Rd1+ 6.Kc7 Rc1+ 7.Kb8 Rb1+ 8.Ka8 Rb7 9.Rh8+ Kg6 10.Kxb7 Kg5 11.Qd8+ Kf4
+- (16.60) Depth: 13/34 00:00:04 13835kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Kf6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Rc5+ 4.Kd6 Rc4 5.f8Q Rg4 6.Qf5+ Rg6+ 7.Rxg6 Kh8
+- (17.00) Depth: 14/34 00:00:05 14302kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Kf6 Rc6+ 3.Ke5 Rc4
+- (#30) Depth: 14/34 00:00:05 14364kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ke5 Kg5 7.Rg8+ Kh4 8.Kf4 Kh5 9.Rg3 Kh6 10.Ke3 Kh5 11.Rh3+ Kg5
+- (#15) Depth: 14/36 00:00:21 64147kN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ke5 Kg5 7.Rg8+ Kh4 8.Kf4 Kh5 9.Rg3 Kh6 10.Ke3 Kh5 11.Rh3+ Kg5
+- (#15) Depth: 14/36 00:00:42 131mN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ke5 Kg5 7.Rg8+ Kh4 8.Kf4 Kh5 9.Rg1 Kh6 10.Kf5 Kh7 11.Ke6 Kh6 12.Kd5 Kh5 13.Rh1+ Kg4 14.Re1 Kf4 15.Kc5 Kf5
+- (#13) Depth: 15/36 00:00:58 184mN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd5 Rf6 4.f8Q Rxf8 5.Rxf8 Kg6 6.Ke5 Kg5 7.Rg8+ Kh4 8.Kf4 Kh5 9.Rg1 Kh6 10.Kf5 Kh7 11.Ke6 Kh6 12.Kd5 Kh5 13.Rh1+ Kg4 14.Re1 Kf4 15.Kc5 Kf5
+- (#13) Depth: 15/36 00:01:22 262mN
1.Rg8 Rc5+ 2.Ke6 Rc6+ 3.Kd7 Rf6 4.Ke7 Rf5 5.f8Q Rxf8 6.Kxf8 Kh6 7.Kf7 Kh5 8.Rg6 Kh4 9.Kg7 Kh3 10.Rh6+
+- (#13) Depth: 16/36 00:01:44 339mN

(, 14.08.2009)