SWCR Event: IvanHoe 999946f vs. IvanHoe B46fB soon

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hi Wael,

I am sure after 250 games don't means that what I wrote is right. Often I am wrong with my first impressions. See my message with a bit enthusiasm I had with me. After the round robin from both versions we know it with more precision in detail. More important is that PeterPan have additional information about his changes. So he can try to make his own compile better if needful.



End of this test, I am sure, the different from both versions will be very small. So it's for the users only a decision, which style is more interesting for own things. From technical point of view both versions works fine and after all what I saw it's quit clear that both versions plays stronger as the latest version B47cB I tested.

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

After round 08 of 40
(8x35 games = 280 games)

Code: Select all

Rank Name                            Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Houdini 2.0c x64               3018   20   20  1224   82%  2754   25% 
   2 Houdini 1.5 x64                2998   14   14  2320   78%  2771   29% 
   3 Houdini 1.5 w32                2980   19   19  1240   79%  2755   29% 
   4 IvanHoe 999946f x64            2969   39   37   280   75%  2769   30% 
   5 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 42            2968   20   19  1216   79%  2732   26% 
   6 Rybka 4.1 x64 Exp. 79TD v.1    2963   20   19  1200   79%  2735   26% 
   7 Komodo 3.0 x64                 2961   17   17  1504   76%  2753   32% 
   8 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 61            2959   21   21  1000   78%  2741   27% 
   9 IvanHoe B46fB x64              2957   37   36   280   75%  2769   38% 
  10 Rybka 4.1 x64                  2955   15   15  1783   73%  2775   36% 
  11 Critter 1.2 x64                2954   16   15  1704   76%  2752   33% 
  12 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64 PHQ     2948   18   18  1296   76%  2748   32% 
  13 Houdini 1.03a x64              2943   21   21  1000   80%  2710   30% 
  14 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64            2940   16   16  1664   75%  2748   34% 
  15 IvanHoe B47cB x64              2940   15   15  1768   71%  2784   39% 
  16 Rybka 4 x64                    2940   18   17  1480   80%  2696   28% 
  17 Fire 1.5 xTreme x64            2935   17   16  1400   73%  2761   36% 
  18 Critter 1.2 w32                2934   18   18  1200   75%  2753   36% 
  19 IvanHoe B49jA x64              2931   19   18  1160   76%  2737   34% 
  20 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64         2930   15   15  1821   73%  2756   35% 
  21 Komodo 2.03 JA x64             2926   17   16  1480   73%  2749   31% 
  22 IvanHoe B52aC x64              2918   20   20  1000   76%  2726   34% 
  23 RobboLito 0.09 x64             2917   17   16  1496   74%  2732   33% 
  24 Stockfish 1.8.0 JA x64         2905   19   19  1160   75%  2711   32% 

[Frank Quisinsky]

After round 9 of 40 ...

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Rank Name                            Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Houdini 2.0c x64               3018   20   20  1226   82%  2754   25% 
   2 Houdini 1.5 x64                2998   14   14  2320   78%  2771   29% 
   3 Houdini 1.5 w32                2980   19   19  1240   79%  2755   29% 
   4 IvanHoe 999946f x64            2970   37   35   315   75%  2769   29% 
   5 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 42            2969   19   19  1218   79%  2733   26% 
   6 Rybka 4.1 x64 Exp. 79TD v.1    2963   20   19  1200   79%  2735   26% 
   7 Komodo 3.0 x64                 2961   17   17  1506   76%  2753   32% 
   8 IvanHoe B46fB x64              2959   35   34   313   75%  2770   38% 
   9 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 61            2959   21   21  1000   78%  2741   27% 
  10 Rybka 4.1 x64                  2955   15   15  1785   73%  2775   36% 
  11 Critter 1.2 x64                2954   16   15  1706   76%  2752   33% 
  12 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64 PHQ     2949   18   18  1298   76%  2748   32% 
  13 Houdini 1.03a x64              2943   21   21  1000   80%  2710   30% 
  14 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64            2941   16   16  1666   75%  2748   34% 
  15 IvanHoe B47cB x64              2940   15   15  1768   71%  2784   39% 
  16 Rybka 4 x64                    2940   18   17  1480   80%  2696   28% 
  17 Fire 1.5 xTreme x64            2935   17   16  1400   73%  2761   36% 
  18 Critter 1.2 w32                2934   18   18  1200   75%  2752   36% 
  19 IvanHoe B49jA x64              2931   19   18  1160   76%  2737   34% 
  20 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64         2930   15   15  1823   73%  2756   35% 
  21 Komodo 2.03 JA x64             2926   17   16  1480   73%  2749   31% 
  22 IvanHoe B52aC x64              2918   20   20  1000   76%  2725   34% 
  23 RobboLito 0.09 x64             2917   17   16  1498   74%  2732   33% 

[Frank Quisinsky]

After round 11/40

Code: Select all

Rank Name                            Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Houdini 2.0c x64               3018   20   20  1230   82%  2755   25% 
   2 Houdini 1.5 x64                2998   14   14  2320   78%  2771   29% 
   3 Houdini 1.5 w32                2980   19   19  1240   79%  2755   29% 
   4 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 42            2968   19   19  1223   79%  2734   26% 
   5 Rybka 4.1 x64 Exp. 79TD v.1    2963   20   19  1200   79%  2735   26% 
   6 Komodo 3.0 x64                 2961   17   17  1510   76%  2754   32% 
   7 IvanHoe 999946f x64            2960   33   32   386   74%  2770   30% 
   8 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 61            2959   21   21  1000   78%  2741   27% 
   9 IvanHoe B46fB x64              2959   32   31   386   75%  2770   37% 
  10 Rybka 4.1 x64                  2955   15   15  1790   73%  2776   36% 
  11 Critter 1.2 x64                2954   16   15  1710   76%  2753   34% 
  12 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64 PHQ     2949   18   18  1302   76%  2749   32% 
  13 Houdini 1.03a x64              2943   21   21  1000   80%  2710   30% 
  14 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64            2941   16   16  1670   75%  2749   34% 
  15 IvanHoe B47cB x64              2940   15   15  1768   71%  2784   39% 
  16 Rybka 4 x64                    2940   18   17  1480   80%  2696   28% 
  17 Fire 1.5 xTreme x64            2935   17   16  1400   73%  2761   36% 
  18 Critter 1.2 w32                2934   18   18  1200   75%  2753   36% 
  19 IvanHoe B49jA x64              2931   19   18  1160   76%  2737   34% 
  20 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64         2930   15   15  1827   73%  2756   35% 
  21 Komodo 2.03 JA x64             2926   17   16  1480   73%  2749   31% 
  22 IvanHoe B52aC x64              2918   20   20  1000   76%  2725   34% 
  23 RobboLito 0.09 x64             2917   17   16  1502   74%  2733   33% 

[Frank Quisinsky]

After round 13 / 40.
I added 35 opponents in both round robins. ELO is very clear after 200-400 games only. So I think I will stopped here and added perhaps each two days the next results.

More as +-10 isn't to await.

B46fB is playing more solid, 999946f more risky. Engines which played more risky made in a rating list more points becuase they have to play vs. more weaker opponents (the TOP-7). Its clear that PHQ or Exp. 42 are playing a bit stronger. I think we can explain the IvanHoe results very easy.

In the near of Houdini = more risky
spekulativ is the secret I think!

Code: Select all

Rank Name                            Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Houdini 2.0c x64               3018   20   20  1235   81%  2755   25% 
   2 Houdini 1.5 x64                2998   14   14  2320   78%  2771   29% 
   3 Houdini 1.5 w32                2980   19   19  1240   79%  2756   29% 
   4 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 42            2968   19   19  1227   79%  2734   26% 
   5 IvanHoe 999946f x64            2963   30   29   454   75%  2770   31% 
   6 Rybka 4.1 x64 Exp. 79TD v.1    2963   20   19  1200   79%  2735   26% 
   7 Komodo 3.0 x64                 2961   17   17  1514   76%  2754   32% 
   8 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 61            2959   21   21  1000   78%  2741   27% 
   9 IvanHoe B46fB x64              2958   29   29   456   75%  2771   37% 
  10 Rybka 4.1 x64                  2955   15   15  1793   73%  2776   36% 
  11 Critter 1.2 x64                2954   16   15  1714   75%  2753   34% 
  12 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64 PHQ     2948   18   18  1306   76%  2749   32% 
  13 Houdini 1.03a x64              2943   21   21  1000   80%  2710   30% 
  14 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64            2941   16   16  1674   75%  2749   34% 
  15 IvanHoe B47cB x64              2940   15   15  1768   71%  2784   39% 
  16 Rybka 4 x64                    2940   18   17  1480   80%  2696   28% 
  17 Fire 1.5 xTreme x64            2935   17   16  1400   73%  2761   36% 
  18 Critter 1.2 w32                2934   18   18  1200   75%  2753   36% 
  19 IvanHoe B49jA x64              2931   19   18  1160   76%  2737   34% 
  20 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64         2930   15   15  1831   73%  2757   35% 
  21 Komodo 2.03 JA x64             2926   17   16  1480   73%  2749   31% 
  22 IvanHoe B52aC x64              2918   20   20  1000   76%  2725   34% 
  23 RobboLito 0.09 x64             2917   17   16  1506   74%  2733   33% 

[Frank Quisinsky]

Code: Select all

Rank Name                            Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Houdini 2.0c x64               3017   20   19  1244   81%  2757   26% 
   2 Houdini 1.5 x64                2998   14   14  2320   78%  2771   29% 
   3 Houdini 1.5 w32                2980   19   19  1240   79%  2756   29% 
   4 IvanHoe 999946f x64            2967   26   26   601   75%  2771   32% 
   5 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 42            2967   19   19  1236   79%  2736   27% 
   6 Rybka 4.1 x64 Exp. 79TD v.1    2963   20   19  1200   79%  2735   26% 
   7 Komodo 3.0 x64                 2960   17   16  1524   76%  2756   32% 
   8 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 61            2959   21   21  1000   78%  2741   27% 
   9 IvanHoe B46fB x64              2955   26   25   602   74%  2771   37% 
  10 Rybka 4.1 x64                  2955   15   15  1803   73%  2777   35% 
  11 Critter 1.2 x64                2954   16   15  1723   75%  2754   34% 
  12 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64 PHQ     2948   18   17  1316   75%  2751   32% 
  13 Houdini 1.03a x64              2943   21   21  1000   80%  2710   30% 
  14 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64            2940   16   15  1683   74%  2750   34% 
  15 IvanHoe B47cB x64              2940   15   15  1768   71%  2784   39% 
  16 Rybka 4 x64                    2940   18   17  1480   80%  2696   28% 
  17 Fire 1.5 xTreme x64            2935   17   16  1400   73%  2761   36% 
  18 Critter 1.2 w32                2934   18   18  1200   75%  2753   36% 
  19 IvanHoe B49jA x64              2931   19   18  1160   76%  2737   34% 
  20 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64         2930   15   15  1840   73%  2758   35% 
  21 Komodo 2.03 JA x64             2926   17   16  1480   73%  2749   31% 
  22 IvanHoe B52aC x64              2918   20   20  1000   76%  2725   34% 
  23 RobboLito 0.09 x64             2917   17   16  1514   73%  2734   33% 
  24 Stockfish 2.0.1 JA x64         2905   18   18  1120   69%  2767   38% 

[Frank Quisinsky]

Code: Select all

Rank Name                            Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Houdini 2.0c x64               3017   20   19  1246   81%  2757   26% 
   2 Houdini 1.5 x64                2998   14   14  2320   78%  2771   29% 
   3 Houdini 1.5 w32                2981   19   19  1240   79%  2756   29% 
   4 IvanHoe 999946f x64            2968   25   25   641   75%  2772   32% 
   5 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 42            2966   19   19  1238   79%  2736   27% 
   6 Rybka 4.1 x64 Exp. 79TD v.1    2963   20   19  1200   79%  2735   26% 
   7 Komodo 3.0 x64                 2960   17   16  1526   76%  2756   32% 
   8 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 61            2959   21   21  1000   78%  2741   27% 
   9 Rybka 4.1 x64                  2955   15   15  1805   73%  2777   36% 
  10 Critter 1.2 x64                2955   16   15  1726   75%  2755   34% 
  11 IvanHoe B46fB x64              2953   25   24   641   74%  2772   37% 
  12 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64 PHQ     2947   18   17  1318   75%  2751   32% 
  13 Houdini 1.03a x64              2943   21   21  1000   80%  2710   30% 
  14 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64            2940   16   15  1685   74%  2751   34% 
  15 IvanHoe B47cB x64              2940   15   15  1768   71%  2784   39% 
  16 Rybka 4 x64                    2940   18   17  1480   80%  2696   28% 
  17 Fire 1.5 xTreme x64            2935   17   16  1400   73%  2761   36% 
  18 Critter 1.2 w32                2934   18   18  1200   75%  2753   36% 
  19 IvanHoe B49jA x64              2931   19   18  1160   76%  2737   34% 
  20 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64         2930   15   14  1843   72%  2758   35% 
  21 Komodo 2.03 JA x64             2926   17   16  1480   73%  2749   31% 
  22 RobboLito 0.09 x64             2918   17   16  1518   73%  2735   34% 
  23 IvanHoe B52aC x64              2918   20   20  1000   76%  2725   34% 

[jdart]

What are the actual differences between these, and how extensive are they?

I wish they'd just use normal version numbers.

--Jon

[Frank Quisinsky]

Hello Jon,

after all my information I think only PeterPan can give you an answer in detail. I don't know his special settings he added in the compiles. KLO compiles ... no changes in the IvanHoe main versions.

In the past different persons compiles the main IvanHoe versions. At the moment most known are the compiles from KLO and PeterPan. Who is KLO and who is PeterPan, this information can be read found in my news ticker.

After my opinion we have the same situation with these compiles around IvanHoe as with different good settings from other engines.

Rybka 4.0 EXP. 42 is stronger as Rybka 4.1
Stockfish 2.1.1 PHQ is stronger as Stockfish 2.1.1
It seems that IvanHoe 999946f is stronger as B46fB.

But only if you produced the SWCR conditions (more weaker as stronger engines in round robins). I can used only what I have, and all TOP engines are included.

This are very good examples I think !!!

Rybka 4.0 EXP. 42, Stockfish 2.1.1 PHQ and IvanHoe 999946f playing more speculative, more aggressive. In my rating list (more weaker engines as stronger engines in the round robins of TOP-35) with the results that the performance by more speculative / aggressive engines are higher. This engines produced a clearly lower remis quote. For Bayesian is this important because engines with a lower remis quote will get a higher rating.

Most of the chess player like the solid style. Rybka 4.1, Stockfish 2.1.1 and IvanHoe B46fB are playing more solid.

You are the programmer. You can give me more information about it. Speculative in NullMove or aggressive settings seems to be the secret for a higher rating??!

Stockfish 2.1.1 PHQ problem:
SF 2.11 PHQ give to many own material for an attack in the middlegame. Vs. weaker engines with more success and vs. stronger engines with two possibilities.

1. A fantastic game
2. Remis very fast or Stockfish will lost if the opponent is playing very precise.

EXP. 42 is good to compare with PHQ

And IvanHoe?
Not easy at all ... have a look on the results vs. Houdini 2.0c x64. First engine which have a chance to beat the number 1 is the IvanHoe KLO. But vs. the other strong engines the results are not better as from the PeterPan version.

We know the EXP 42 settings of Rybka. We know the PHQ settings of Stockfish and we can donwload the main sources from IvanHoe. This information can help to find out more about programs on this high level.

The topic isn't esay for me, perhaps it's wrong what I have here in my brain but most of my opinions I generate with in combination with statistics.

Move average from PeterPan compiles is 4 moves higher.
Remis quote is 7% higher.
More short lost games by the PeterPan version.

But all in all vs. the most stronger opponents PeterPan's compile is playing more solid. In blitz I have the information by Stefan Pohl that the version by PeterPan is around 5 ELO stronger ... after many many games.

Enough ...

Best
Frank

[Frank Quisinsky]

Code: Select all

Rank Name                            Elo    +    - games score oppo. draws 
   1 Houdini 2.0c x64               3015   20   19  1252   81%  2758   26% 
   2 Houdini 1.5 x64                2998   14   14  2320   78%  2771   29% 
   3 Houdini 1.5 w32                2981   19   19  1240   79%  2756   29% 
   4 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 42            2967   19   19  1244   79%  2737   27% 
   5 IvanHoe 999946f x64            2966   24   23   742   75%  2771   33% 
   6 Rybka 4.1 x64 Exp. 79TD v.1    2963   20   19  1200   79%  2735   26% 
   7 Komodo 3.0 x64                 2961   17   16  1532   76%  2757   32% 
   8 Rybka 4 x64 Exp. 61            2959   21   21  1000   78%  2741   27% 
   9 Rybka 4.1 x64                  2955   15   15  1811   73%  2778   36% 
  10 Critter 1.2 x64                2954   16   15  1732   75%  2755   34% 
  11 IvanHoe B46fB x64              2949   23   22   744   74%  2771   37% 
  12 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64 PHQ     2948   18   18  1323   75%  2752   32% 
  13 Houdini 1.03a x64              2943   21   21  1000   80%  2710   30% 
  14 Fire 2.2 xTreme x64            2940   16   15  1692   74%  2751   35% 
  15 IvanHoe B47cB x64              2940   15   15  1768   71%  2784   39% 
  16 Rybka 4 x64                    2940   18   17  1480   80%  2696   28% 
  17 Fire 1.5 xTreme x64            2935   17   16  1400   73%  2761   36% 
  18 Critter 1.2 w32                2934   18   18  1200   75%  2753   36% 
  19 IvanHoe B49jA x64              2931   19   18  1160   76%  2737   34% 
  20 Stockfish 2.1.1 JA x64         2930   15   14  1849   72%  2759   35% 
  21 Komodo 2.03 JA x64             2926   17   16  1480   73%  2749   31% 
  22 RobboLito 0.09 x64             2918   16   16  1522   73%  2735   34% 
  23 IvanHoe B52aC x64              2918   20   20  1000   76%  2726   34% 
  24 Stockfish 2.0.1 JA x64         2905   18   18  1120   69%  2767   38%