Moves with questionable uniqueness

[Hobacle]

5q2/1K2ppNp/7k/P6P/8/3N2P1/BB6/5n2 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Crystal 5 KWK:

1. +- (2.29): 1.Be6 Ne3 2.Ne5 fxe6 3.Bc1 Qxg7 4.Bxe3+ Kxh5 5.g4+ Kh4 6.Bf2+ Kh3 7.Bd4 Qf8 8.a6 Qf4 9.Nc6 e5 10.Bb6 Kxg4 11.a7 Qa4 12.Nxe5+ Kf4 13.Nd3+ Kf5 14.Nc5 Qa2 15.a8Q Qxa8+ 16.Kxa8 h5 17.Bc7 h4 18.Nd3 Ke4 19.Ne5 h3 20.Ng4 e5 21.Kb7 Kd5 22.Bxe5 Ke4 23.Bc7 h2 24.Nxh2

2. +/= (0.32): 1.Nf5+ Kg5 2.a6 Qd8 3.Nd4 Qd7+ 4.Kb6 Qd8+ 5.Kb5 Nxg3 6.Nb4 Ne4 7.Bd5 Nd6+ 8.Ka4 Qd7+ 9.Bc6 Qd8 10.Bf3 Nc8 11.Bc1+ Kh4 12.Be3 e5 13.Nb5 Qd7 14.Bf2+ Kh3 15.a7 Nxa7 16.Bxa7 f5 17.Bd5 Qe8 18.h6 e4 19.Bc6 Qg6 20.Bc5 Kg3 21.Kb3 Qxh6 22.Nd4 Qh5 23.Nd5 Qd1+ 24.Kb4 Qb1+ 25.Kc3 Qd3+ 26.Kb2

1.Be5 Ne3

5q2/1K2ppNp/4B2k/P6P/8/3Nn1P1/1B6/8 w - - 0 1

Analysis by Crystal 5 KWK:

1. +- (2.32): 2.Ne5 fxe6 3.Bc1 Qxg7 4.Bxe3+ Kxh5 5.g4+ Kh4 6.Bf2+ Kh3 7.Bd4 Qf6 8.a6 Qf4 9.Nc6 e5 10.Bb6 Qxg4 11.a7 Qa4 12.Nxe5 Qa1 13.Nc6 h5 14.a8Q Qxa8+ 15.Kxa8 h4 16.Bc7 Kg2 17.Ne5 h3 18.Ng4 h2 19.Nxh2 e5 20.Bxe5 Kf2 21.Kb7 Ke3 22.Kc6 Ke4 23.Kd6 Kf5 24.Kd5 Kg5 25.Ke4 Kg6 26.Ng4 Kf7 27.Kd5 Ke7 28.Ne3 Kd7 29.Bg3 Ke8

2. +/- (0.93): 2.g4 Nxg4 3.Bxg4 Qd8 4.Nf5+ Kg5 5.Nd4 Qxa5 6.Be2 Kh6 7.Bf3 e6 8.Bc6 Qa2 9.Kb6 Kxh5 10.Nf3 Qb3+ 11.Bb5 Kg6 12.Nfe5+ Kf6 13.Nd7+ Kf5 14.N7c5 Qd5 15.Kc7 h5 16.Bc6 Qa2 17.Kd7 h4 18.Ke8 h3 19.Be4+ Kg4 20.Kxf7 e5+ 21.Kf6 Qg8 22.Bxe5 Qf8+ 23.Ke6 h2 24.Nd7 Qg8+ 25.Ke7 Qa2 26.Bd4 Qa3+ 27.N7c5 Qa7+ 28.Kf6 Qb8 29.Be5 Qf8+ 30.Ke6

Not quite sure but probably yes (2.Ne5 winning only) too, regards

My main concern is 1.Be6 Ne3 2.g4 . After 2...Nxg4 3.Bxg4, the BBNNvQ endgame seems winning for White from my pov, although Black has some extra pawns.

This time you might be right, even if Crystal went out of time in reversed game coming too near to 50 moves rule and game got adjucated drawn.
Same pairing and hardware- TC like with second one position, this time started from 1.Be6 Ne3 2.g4 Nxg4, both games of reversed colours in one .pgn:
[pgn][Event "AMD, Schnellschach 25.0min+5.0sek"]
[Site "Dort"]
[Date "2022.11.10"]
[Round "1"]
[White "Stockfish 231022"]
[Black "Crystal 5 KWK"]
[Result "1-0"]
[Annotator "1.80;1.24"]
[SetUp "1"]
[FEN "5q2/1K2ppNp/7k/P6P/8/3N2P1/BB6/5n2 w - - 0 1"]
[PlyCount "131"]
[TimeControl "1500+5"]

{AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor 3400 MHz W=46.7 plies; 14 489kN/s; 187 868 292 TBAs B=30.2 plies; 12 450kN/s; 466 480 845 TBAs 1.29;1.15: 'AMD Ryzen 9 5950X 16-Core Processor 3400 MHz W=24.4 plies; 12 597kN/s; 391 439 239 TBAs B=43.6 plies; 14 087kN/s; 180 695 860 TBAs '} 1. Be6 Ne3 2. g4 Nxg4 3. Bxg4 {Beide letzter Buchzug} Qd8 {1.24/36 67} 4. Nf5+ {1.80/42 65} Kg5 {0.73/36 2} 5. Nd4 {1.96/39 28} Qxa5 {0.73/38 10} 6. Be2 {1.60/44 54} Qd5+ {0.82/40 109 (Kh6)} 7. Kb6 {1.21/44 88} Kh6 {0.51/36 0} 8. Nb4 {1.29/43 67} Qg5 {0.80/40 20} (8... Qe4 {1.35/50 24 (Dg5)} 9. Bd3 {0.82/34 19 (Kc5)} Qe3 {1.44/42 86} 10. Kb5 {0.81/37 4} e6 {1.58/44 166 (Dd2)} 11. Kc4 {1.01/30 50} Qf4 {1.68/41 17} 12. Kb3 {1.09/31 2} Kxh5 {1.36/38 25} 13. Bc3 {0.87/34 30} Kh6 {1.27/44 42 (h6)} 14. Bc2 {0.96/36 102} Qg3 {1.70/46 19} 15. Kb2 {0.82/37 221} Qb8 {1.91/49 0} 16. Ndc6 {1.21/39 179} Qg8 {1.49/48 38} 17. Ne5 {1.24/38 0} Kg5 {2.12/45 103} 18. Nf3+ {1.20/39 48} Kf4 {2.13/45 11} 19. Bd1 {1.29/39 70} h5 {1.93/49 0 (Dd8)} 20. Nd3+ {1.44/31 19} Kf5 {2.55/43 201} 21. Be2 {1.54/38 0} Qd8 {2.55/56 112 (Da8)} 22. Kc2 {1.55/37 19} Qd5 {2.56/43 0} 23. Kc1 {1.61/36 16} Qa2 {2.71/43 12} 24. Nb4 {1.58/36 5} Qa5 {2.77/43 17} 25. Kd2 {1.62/38 23} Qb6 {2.68/45 0} 26. Nc2 {1.62/40 25} Kf4 {2.70/46 0} 27. Be5+ {1.55/37 15} Ke4 {2.61/48 10} 28. Bd4 {1.55/38 6} Qd8 {2.72/45 22} 29. Ke1 {1.64/39 1} Kd5 {2.70/46 25} 30. Ne3+ {1.62/39 0} Kd6 {2.90/40 26} 31. Nf1 {1.65/38 0} Kd7 {2.87/52 38} 32. Be3 {1.72/37 0 (Kf2)} Qb8 {2.87/47 21 (Ke8)} 33. Kf2 {1.80/36 20} Qh8 {2.87/49 27 (Dd8)} 34. Bg5 {1.76/37 17} Ke8 {3.18/55 79} 35. Ng3 {1.83/40 0} Kf8 {3.37/56 64} 36. Ne4 {1.84/37 0} Qb2 {3.37/59 17} 37. Be3 {1.87/39 63} h4 {3.56/52 0 (Dc2)} 38. Nxh4 {1.91/34 17} Kg8 {3.57/51 22 (De5)} 39. Nf3 {1.94/31 17} Qb1 {3.57/50 3 (Dc2)} 40. Nc3 {2.05/31 19 (Sg3)} Qb7 {3.60/53 23 (Df5)} 41. Bd4 {2.15/34 42 (Sd1)} Kf8 {3.57/49 16 (Dc7)} 42. Ke3 {2.50/31 14 (Sd1)} Qe7 {4.00/45 46 (Kg8)} 43. Ne5 {2.50/31 37 (Se4)} Qa3 {3.78/44 52 (Kg8)} 44. Bh5 {2.56/32 34 (Sd7+)} Qc1+ {3.78/43 15} 45. Kd3 {2.57/34 14} Qf1+ {3.60/47 4} 46. Be2 {2.38/34 19} Qh3+ {3.78/43 5 (Dg2)} 47. Kc4 {2.35/27 105} Qh4 {3.70/50 0 (Kg7)} 48. Kc5 {2.02/19 25 (Ld3)} Qe7+ {3.66/35 19 (Dg5)} 49. Kc6 {2.10/18 3} Kg7 {4.23/51 117 (Dd8)} 50. Nb5 {1.28/15 10} Qe8+ {4.23/49 26 (Dd8)} 51. Kc7 {1.08/13 6 (Kd6)} Qa8 {4.25/41 12 (Kf6)} 52. Nd6 {1.60/16 6} Qa5+ {4.50/47 55} 53. Kc8 {1.24/12 0 (Kd7)} Qa4 {4.01/36 9 (Da8+)} 54. Nec4+ {1.62/15 9} Kf8 {4.23/42 10 (Kh7)} 55. Bf3 {1.93/16 6} Ke7 {4.37/40 1} 56. Kc7 {1.66/15 0} Qd7+ {4.50/40 21} 57. Kb6 {1.81/21 0} Qd8+ {4.51/38 6} 58. Kb5 {1.63/21 7} Qd7+ {4.51/46 0 (Db8+)} 59. Bc6 {1.79/19 12} Qd8 {4.51/52 0 (Dc7)} 60. Ne5 {2.24/17 6} Qb8+ {4.51/46 0} 61. Nb7 {1.98/14 4} Qa8 {4.51/49 36 (Dg8)} 62. Nd7 {1.53/13 6 (Kb6)} e5 {4.83/41 3} 63. Nd6 {1.29/13 2 (Sbc5)} Qa2 {4.20/34 3} 64. Bc5 {1.21/12 4 (Lxe5)} Qb1+ {4.20/33 3} 65. Ka6 {1.33/13 5 (Ka5)} f5 {4.19/38 5} 66. Bb5 {1.26/14 3 (Sxf5+)} Qa1+ {4.19/39 12 (e4)} 67. Kb7 {1.38/13 10 (Kb6)} f4 {4.00/33 3 (e4)} 68. Kc7 {0.83/10 6 (Lc6)} Qa5+ {4.06/37 4} 69. Bb6 {1.34/17 0 (Kb7)} Qb4 {4.09/41 4} 70. Nc5 {1.00/15 6 (Lc5)} e4 {3.91/37 3} 71. Ncxe4 {1.04/17 6} Ke6 {4.00/38 1} 72. Bc4+ {2.07/20 7 (Lc6)} Ke5 {3.71/31 4} 73. Bf2 {2.49/23 3 (Sc5)} Qa5+ {4.00/31 6 (f3)} 74. Kd7 {1.87/17 4} Qa4+ {4.06/35 2 (f3)} 75. Ke7 {2.32/17 5 (Lb5)} Qc6 {4.08/39 5} 76. Bd3 {1.87/16 5 (Lb5)} Qc7+ {4.26/26 4} 77. Kf8 {1.60/15 5} Kd5 {4.29/38 6 (Ke6)} 78. Ne8 {1.65/13 10 (Lc4+)} Qc8 {3.98/35 11 (Db8)} 79. Nc5 {1.47/17 6 (Ke7)} Qb8 {4.18/33 3} 80. Kf7 {1.52/18 3 (Ke7)} Kc6 {4.24/31 4} 81. Nf6 {1.37/15 0} Qb2 {4.30/37 8 (f3)} 82. Ng4 {1.52/15 11 (Sfe4)} Qh8 {4.35/36 5} 83. Kg6 {0.57/10 1 (Sf6)} Qg8+ {4.20/43 20} 84. Kf5 {0.87/10 0} Qh7+ {4.21/32 2} 85. Kg5 {1.15/11 11 (Kxf4)} Qg8+ {4.29/32 2} 86. Kf5 {0.77/10 6} Qh7+ {4.26/37 0} 87. Kxf4 {1.34/11 6} Qf7+ {4.27/39 12 (Dh3)} 88. Bf5 {1.29/11 7} Kd5 {4.33/39 0 (Kb5)} 89. Nd3 {1.07/10 6 (Sd7)} Qf8 {4.35/32 3 (Kd6)} 90. Nde5 {0.65/9 5 (Lc5)} Qb4+ {4.03/37 4} 91. Kg5 {1.12/10 1 (Ke3)} Qd2+ {4.07/28 4 (De7+)} 92. Kf6 {0.93/9 8 (Le3)} Qc1 {4.16/37 5 (Dc3)} 93. Be3 {1.03/12 6 (Lb6)} Qc7 {3.90/35 4 (Dh1)} 94. Be6+ {0.46/11 6 (Lg6)} Ke4 {3.79/37 3} 95. Bf5+ {0.47/11 2} Kd5 {3.75/36 0} 96. Be6+ {0.16/10 7 (Lg6)} Ke4 {3.41/35 5} 97. Bd7 {0.04/11 1} Qd8+ {3.39/40 11} 98. Kg7 {0.00/12 0 (Kf7)} Qb8 {3.36/41 7 (Dh4)} 99. Ba4 {0.00/13 13 (Lc6+)} Qb4 {3.31/37 5 (Kf5)} 100. Bc6+ {0.00/11 3} Kf5 {3.33/36 0} 101. Nh6+ {0.00/16 9 (Kh6)} Kxe5 {0.00/140 7} 102. Bf3 {0.00/0 0} Qe7+ {0.00/0 0 Remis angenommen ½-½ (102) Crystal 5 KWK-Stockfish 231022 Dort 2022 [1.29;1.15]}) 9. Bc4 {1.21/42 60} Qf4 {0.74/37 122} 10. Nd3 {1.33/43 0} Qb8+ {0.75/38 90} 11. Kc5 {1.25/41 5 (Ka5)} Qd6+ {0.87/36 21} 12. Kb5 {1.08/40 1} Qb8+ {0.73/35 35} 13. Ka4 {1.04/46 50} e6 {0.85/38 202 (Da8+)} 14. Nc6 {1.40/40 22} Qa8+ {0.83/34 3 (Db7)} 15. Kb5 {1.74/38 30} Kxh5 {1.01/37 34 (Db7+)} 16. Kb6 {2.08/34 29} Kh4 {1.16/39 213} 17. Bf6+ {2.29/45 27} Kg3 {1.38/34 15} 18. Be5+ {2.50/36 17} Kf3 {1.46/35 44} 19. Bd6 {2.66/38 18} Qg8 {1.32/36 101} 20. Nf4 {2.75/40 0} Ke3 {1.40/36 90} 21. Be2 {2.84/39 2} Qg7 {1.53/35 115 (Dc8)} 22. Bd1 {2.93/39 33} Kd2 {1.51/35 0} 23. Bh5 {2.95/39 29} Kc2 {1.58/37 31 (Ke3)} 24. Be5 {3.06/38 28} Qf8 {1.55/37 0} 25. Bf3 {2.97/51 78 (Lg4)} Kd2 {1.51/35 13 (Kc1)} 26. Nh5 {3.37/39 26 (Lh5)} Qa3 {1.99/36 80} 27. Nd4 {3.40/53 0} Qb4+ {1.99/35 36} 28. Kc6 {3.40/56 15} Qa4+ {2.00/33 14} 29. Kd6 {3.40/52 16} Qe8 {2.00/33 0} 30. Nc6 {3.40/65 210 (Kc5)} Ke3 {1.94/32 12} 31. Bg4 {3.40/62 36} Qf8+ {1.92/35 0} 32. Kd7 {3.40/62 250} f5 {2.06/40 0} 33. Bd4+ {3.60/50 58} Kd2 {2.13/35 70 (Ke4)} 34. Bf3 {3.60/57 74} Qa3 {2.24/40 0 (e5)} 35. Bg2 {3.60/59 14} f4 {2.24/40 0} 36. Nxf4 {3.60/59 18 (Se5)} Qf8 {2.00/33 104} 37. Be5 {3.60/56 0} h5 {1.30/19 4 (Df7+)} 38. Kxe6 {3.82/51 15 (Sd4)} h4 {1.35/18 26 (Kc1)} 39. Ne7 {4.06/49 135} h3 {1.53/19 0} 40. Bxh3 {4.06/49 82} Qh6+ {1.52/12 0} 41. Kf5 {4.33/47 5} Kc2 {1.26/15 12 (Dh7+)} 42. Ned5 {4.33/36 4 (Seg6)} Kb3 {0.97/12 11} 43. Kg4 {4.33/40 0} Ka4 {0.12/8 6 (Dh7)} 44. Nc3+ {6.59/36 24} Ka5 {0.40/11 0} 45. Bg2 {6.77/28 2} Qh2 {0.99/11 7 (Dh7)} 46. Bd5 {8.93/25 2 (Kf3)} Qg1+ {0.46/9 7 (Df2)} 47. Kf3 {12.81/22 3} Qf1+ {0.47/8 2 (Dg5)} 48. Ke4 {152.31/36 6 (Ke3)} Qf2 {0.56/10 8 (Dh1+)} 49. Bc7+ {152.51/54 3 (Kd3)} Ka6 {0.49/10 6} 50. Ne6 {152.53/55 12 (Kd3)} Qh4+ {99.66/29 5} 51. Kd3 {152.54/57 0} Qf2 {99.66/32 3 (Db4)} 52. Kc4 {152.56/56 4} Qf1+ {99.68/32 0} 53. Kb4 {152.57/55 6 (Kb3)} Qb5+ {99.76/30 10} 54. Ka3 {152.58/56 3} Qf1 {99.80/33 4} 55. Nc5+ {152.59/57 5} Ka7 {99.82/33 0} 56. N5e4 {152.61/51 18 (Kb4)} Qa1+ {99.82/29 7 (Dg1)} 57. Kb3 {#21/53 5} Qe1 {99.86/31 5 (Dc1)} 58. Nd6 {#20/50 3} Qe3 {99.88/28 0} 59. Bc6 {#19/50 5 (Kb4)} Ka6 {99.92/26 4} 60. Bb5+ {#18/48 3} Ka7 {99.94/26 0} 61. Bb6+ {#17/48 5} Kxb6 {99.96/25 0} 62. Nc4+ {1/1 0} Kc5 {1/0 0} 63. Nxe3 {7/1 0} Kd6 {7/1 0} 64. Ned5 {6/0 0} Ke6 {6/1 0} 65. Be8 {5/1 0} Ke5 {5/0 0} 66. Bd7 {4/1 0} 1-0
/pgn][/pgn]

Could you download KBBNNvKQ tablebases and calculate the 1.Nf5 line?

[peter]

Could you download KBBNNvKQ tablebases and calculate the 1.Nf5 line?

Of course I could, but for sure I wouldn't

Sorry, dear Hobacle, as I told you, I had to replace a (not a noname) SSD only one year old recently, and I do download many senseless things for computerchess still, but I won't start with 7some- tbs for single positions of (your) interest.
Why don't you do so by yourself, if I may ask,
asks

Edit: we all should really start to spare a little something of the most useless and most expensive things we waste (and there are many others of course too, which doesn't mean not to spare any of them but better more than none) now and then, e.g. regarding hardware- time (electricity) and hardware- consumption, which means hardware- deterioration and waste of hardware, not to talk about manpower and -time.

We don't have any planet B, even if latest climate conference stil and again seems to act up as if we had

[peter]

Could you download KBBNNvKQ tablebases and calculate the 1.Nf5 line?

Of course I could, but for sure I wouldn't

Sorry, dear Hobacle, as I told you, I had to replace a (not a noname) SSD only one year old recently, and I do download many senseless things for computerchess still, but I won't start with 7some- tbs for single positions of (your) interest.
Why don't you do so by yourself, if I may ask,
asks...

Edit: we all should really start to spare a little something of the most useless and most expensive things we waste (and there are many others of course too, which doesn't mean not to spare any of them but better more than none) now and then, e.g. regarding hardware- time (electricity) and hardware- consumption, which means hardware- deterioration and waste of hardware, not to talk about manpower and -time.

We don't have any planet B, even if latest climate conference stil and again seems to act up as if we had

[Hobacle]

Sorry, dear Hobacle, as I told you, I had to replace a (not a noname) SSD only one year old recently, and I do download many senseless things for computerchess still, but I won't start with 7some- tbs for single positions of (your) interest.
Why don't you do so by yourself, if I may ask,

Since my another CPU has been burned, here's my fastest computation speed right now:

5q2/1K2pp1p/7k/P4N1P/8/3N2P1/BB6/5n2 b - - 0 1

Analysis by Stockfish 15:

1...Kg5 2.Nd4 Qd8 3.a6 Qd7+ 4.Kb6 Qd8+ 5.Kb5 Nxg3 6.Bc1+ Kh4 7.Nf3+ Kh3 8.Nf4+ Kg4 9.Ne5+ Kh4 10.Nc6 Qd6 11.Bd5 Nxh5 12.Ng2+ Kh3 13.Nb4 Nf6 14.Nf4+ Kg4 15.Bc6 Nd7 16.Nfd3 Qb8+ 17.Bb7 Qa7 18.Nc6 Qb6+ 19.Kc4 Nf6 20.Ba3 Ne8 21.Bc5 Nd6+ 22.Bxd6 exd6 23.Ndb4 Kg5 24.Bc8 Qc7 25.Bh3 f5 26.a7 Qb7 27.Kd5 f4 28.Bf1 f3 29.Kxd6 Qa8 30.Nd5 f2 31.Kc7 Qg8 32.Nb6 Qg7+ 33.Kc8 Qh8+ 34.Nd8 Qc3+ 35.Kb7
+/- (0.85) Depth: 39/73 00:32:55 198MN, tb=631725

Edit: we all should really start to spare a little something of the most useless and most expensive things we waste (and there are many others of course too, which doesn't mean not to spare any of them but better more than none) now and then, e.g. regarding hardware- time (electricity) and hardware- consumption, which means hardware- deterioration and waste of hardware, not to talk about manpower and -time.

We don't have any planet B, even if latest climate conference stil and again seems to act up as if we had

You're right. I should really post less threads like this or puzzles.

[peter]

You're right. I should really post less threads like this or puzzles.

No, not at all, dear Hobacle, sorry, you got me fully wrong and it was my fault of course.
You are on the opposite a brightly shining example (native speakers call it beacon in a metaphoric sense too, did you know that? I didn't, till Leo told me so right now ) of human brain- work instead of hardware- based one to me, again and again composing postions with which hardware is even with best programs overstrained.

And if I look at the other one thread about the constructed 27-men- position and their DTM, I for sure still do waste much more hardware- time and time for computerchess at all than most others do.

What I just wanted to point out was, 7some tbs are to me some kind of indulgence within the luxury, computerchess is by itself nowadays. They can be looked- up as for the root positions at several servers online, the ways to reach them are only now and then and most of the time still not really to be proven by engines only neither, at least not without forced lines leading to them, so I simply refuse to download them as long as I'm not forced to do so.

As a matter of fact I just use things like that as a little bit of alibi for the other fuzz. I still waste eclectricity and ressources for otherwise.
But at least I try to give publicity to a somewhat greener thinking now and then. A computerchess- forum probably isn't the very best place for that, but on the other hand, maybe just justly, at least once in a while