The lucky winner of my 'Catch the Pirate' contest is...

[GS]

I don't agree with Kirill either. I will continue to test Naum because I really like this engine.

However, going public with the full name of the person that is supposed to be the "thief" here, was wrong.

He may be innocent until the opposite is proved.

I agree with Alex all the way! I want to mention that he only told the
prename of that person and 'Pedro' in Spain is as 'fully calling a name',
as a 'Martin, Chris or Robert' in any English speaking country ;-)
BTW I don't believe that Kyrill has so less experience and knowledge
in networks and security, if he is able to create a file sharing project
for 6 men tablebases. I don't see why he should be bothered at all
by Alex' decision?

Guenther

[revengeska]

Or you could just remove the copyright protection from your program.

I really can't tell you what to do with your program, but I'm certain that your losing customers because of the copyright protection. I myself was interested in purchasing Naum(seems like a good engine), but I tend to shy away from programs with copyright protection. It's basically the reason I won't buy Hiarcs, yet I'm a faithful customer of Rybka.

Do you really feel like you're losing money on this? I'm willing to bet that the people who pirate your program weren't going to buy it in the first place, whether they could download it or not. In short, you're not gaining any customers from the copyright protection, but I'm sure you're losing them.

Here's an thought: How about posting this in a few hacker forums(I'm not just talking about cracker forums, but ethical hacker forums as well), and let's see how "unbreakable" your copy protection is? That's what Microsoft said about the Xbox 360 filesystem, and that was broken within a week.

[menniepals]

It is important that Naum should be protected. But who needs commercial programs now that Toga and Fruit engines are freely available. These are very strong engines. I would love to see instead of Zappa vs Rybka, Fruit matched against any of these engines or any other commercial engines especially against Naum as well. Fruit should put an excellent fight against Naum. Naum freeware is also very strong and only an unsatisfied soul would try getting a newer version just for that almost imperceptible little tiny bit of kick that shouldn't matter for anyone rated below 2500. Still there is no need to upgrade to a slightly stronger version. Even the latest Scid program is a lot better than Chessbase light and Chess Assistant Demos.

[VP]

Please answer before seeing my next sentence.
I use COMODO firewall which is free and supposed to be the best one. Can they still do it?

Do not be too sure.
A dedicated hacker, can, if he desires, break into your system, firewall or no firewall.
The really ingenious hackers (not necessarily the top hackers) have broken into NASA servers/ computers, which were protecetd by the best firewall AND other security measures.

A firewall is simply a deterrent, analogous to a steel grate around your shop. Still, people manage to rob some of the famous shops.

Disclaimer: I do not condone Piracy, and what I am saying here is that it is possible to break into a firewall protected system.

[VP]

Or you could just remove the copyright protection from your program.

I really can't tell you what to do with your program, but I'm certain that your losing customers because of the copyright protection. I myself was interested in purchasing Naum(seems like a good engine), but I tend to shy away from programs with copyright protection. It's basically the reason I won't buy Hiarcs, yet I'm a faithful customer of Rybka.

This is not about you. Although I am a big advocate of free sources, the author has the right to employ his own copy protection if he deems suitable. You may, or may not buy because it is copy protected, but I am sure that people who like the strength of Naum will definitely buy it.
And BTW, Rybka has a big customer base because of so many different reasons. Just a couple- strongest engine, and excellent support direct from the author.

At the same time, the author should be mentally prepared that if his stuff is good, it is going to be hacked sooner or later.

Do you really feel like you're losing money on this? I'm willing to bet that the people who pirate your program weren't going to buy it in the first place, whether they could download it or not. In short, you're not gaining any customers from the copyright protection, but I'm sure you're losing them.

The logic has a basic fallacy if someone claims that they are not going to buy a program, but would use a pirated program, thus the author does not loose money. This is just not a good logic, and should not be used as an excuse.

Here's an thought: How about posting this in a few hacker forums(I'm not just talking about cracker forums, but ethical hacker forums as well), and let's see how "unbreakable" your copy protection is? That's what Microsoft said about the Xbox 360 filesystem, and that was broken within a week.

I agree completely. No protection is hack proof. you may encrypt all you like, and the usability decrease with complexity and gives negative returns. But still, a really skillful hacker can still get past the copy protection. When people have been able to crack the hardware dongles with some scientific applications, I think the simple copy protection of the chess programs is just a formality.


Again, I feel that Pedro is innocent unless proved guilty, as was the case with Tony. If he says he doesn't know anything about his shared (??) key. I believe him.

[revengeska]

It is important that Naum should be protected. But who needs commercial programs now that Toga and Fruit engines are freely available. These are very strong engines. I would love to see instead of Zappa vs Rybka, Fruit matched against any of these engines or any other commercial engines especially against Naum as well. Fruit should put an excellent fight against Naum. Naum freeware is also very strong and only an unsatisfied soul would try getting a newer version just for that almost imperceptible little tiny bit of kick that shouldn't matter for anyone rated below 2500. Still there is no need to upgrade to a slightly stronger version. Even the latest Scid program is a lot better than Chessbase light and Chess Assistant Demos.

Why is it important that Naum be protected? What good does it do?

I agree with you on the free engines, and I wish they had larger backing from programmers. They haven't raised interest in the right groups yet, though.

However, there are many reasons to have a newer version, even if it is only slightly stronger. They may analyze certain positions better, or eliminate bugs, and that might be the difference that an average chess player could use. Or if you're like many(if not most of us on this forum), you're into computer vs computer games, and the level of play is so high that these small improvements mean the difference between wins and losses. Whether having a new version is useful or not depends on what you use it for, but it is worth it for many.

[George Tsavdaris]

Please answer before seeing my next sentence.
I use COMODO firewall which is free and supposed to be the best one. Can they still do it?

Do not be too sure.
A dedicated hacker, can, if he desires, break into your system, firewall or no firewall.

Really? I mean really really?
It's difficult to believe!

So the only protection i can have is just to hope that:
1)There is no reason someone to select me to invade to my PC. But if someone insane wants a random person to harm then i can only hope:
2)Among the million internet users i have small probability to be selected.

Nothing more i can do?
Very small probability for 1) and 2) to happen thank god. But i wanted to be 0% to feel free and not under the continuous threat of some insane person.....

[revengeska]

This is not about you. Although I am a big advocate of free sources, the author has the right to employ his own copy protection if he deems suitable. You may, or may not buy because it is copy protected, but I am sure that people who like the strength of Naum will definitely buy it.
And BTW, Rybka has a big customer base because of so many different reasons. Just a couple- strongest engine, and excellent support direct from the author.

At the same time, the author should be mentally prepared that if his stuff is good, it is going to be hacked sooner or later.

This isn't about me? Ask ANY successful business what is most important to that business. Customers and potential customers. Customers are always right. This is pretty obvious and seems to have been lost on a lot of people. I said myself(I can't tell him what to do with his program) that he can do what he wants with his program, but my point was that it's senseless to offer copy protection. I'm telling you right now, people are not going to buy Naum because they can't find it for free off the internet. I'll reiterate that. People who don't find Naum for free off the internet are not going to give money to the author for the program. I'll agree that Rybka has a large customer base because of your stated reasons, but he's not getting money because people are pirating his program, he's getting money because people want to support him. If he didn't create this support, there's nothing stopping people from going and downloading his program.

The logic has a basic fallacy if someone claims that they are not going to buy a program, but would use a pirated program, thus the author does not loose money. This is just not a good logic, and should not be used as an excuse.

You're not taking food from the author's mouths by copying a program. You can duplicate a million copies for free, and you're not depriving anyone of anything. The author probably won't even know about that instance. I'm not condoning piracy, but the problem is exaggerated to the point of giving actual customers headaches by enduring copy protection. I personally buy programs in support of the authors, and will not use programs when I don't want to support the author. You're right, the idea that someone won't pay for the program anyways shouldn't be used as an excuse for piracy, but enacting copy protection doesn't help and in fact only makes things worse.

I agree completely. No protection is hack proof. you may encrypt all you like, and the usability decrease with complexity and gives negative returns. But still, a really skillful hacker can still get past the copy protection. When people have been able to crack the hardware dongles with some scientific applications, I think the simple copy protection of the chess programs is just a formality.

That's really the point I'm getting at. Copyright protection is not going to help protect the program, so save the pain of the customers and simply withdraw it. You really are more likely to gain customers by doing this, because you're appealing to the morals of these people and make them want to support you by buying your product. The users who won't be affected by this are mostly going to be adolescent kids, and they really aren't potential customers anyways for a variety of reasons.

[revengeska]

Please answer before seeing my next sentence.
I use COMODO firewall which is free and supposed to be the best one. Can they still do it?

Do not be too sure.
A dedicated hacker, can, if he desires, break into your system, firewall or no firewall.
The really ingenious hackers (not necessarily the top hackers) have broken into NASA servers/ computers, which were protecetd by the best firewall AND other security measures.

A firewall is simply a deterrent, analogous to a steel grate around your shop. Still, people manage to rob some of the famous shops.

Disclaimer: I do not condone Piracy, and what I am saying here is that it is possible to break into a firewall protected system.

Or they can just do what UK hacker Gary McKinnon did and scan the government computers for blank administrator passwords, and get in that way.

[revengeska]

Please answer before seeing my next sentence.
I use COMODO firewall which is free and supposed to be the best one. Can they still do it?

Do not be too sure.
A dedicated hacker, can, if he desires, break into your system, firewall or no firewall.

Really? I mean really really?
It's difficult to believe!

So the only protection i can have is just to hope that:
1)There is no reason someone to select me to invade to my PC. But if someone insane wants a random person to harm then i can only hope:
2)Among the million internet users i have small probability to be selected.

Nothing more i can do?
Very small probability for 1) and 2) to happen thank god. But i wanted to be 0% to feel free and not under the continuous threat of some insane person.....

He's right, if hackers really want to get into your computer, they will. You can do many things to protect yourself, like using a secure operating system, firewall, virus/rootkit scanners, strong passwords, etc. Hackers looking for vulnerable targets scan the net for the least secure systems, so you'll likely be bypassed if you take steps to protect yourself.

Here's a little known fact: they actually banned the NetBSD(I think) operating system from Defcon hacker conference competitions because it's too secure by default. I suppose that's the way to go if you're paranoid enough. Windows is just insecure, it's a widely accepted fact.