Pleading for TogaII take part in tournament

[gerold]

I have checked the differences with Toga II 1.3.1 of course and there is some change in the material evaluation of Bishops and Knights in the endgame, and changes in the three Futility Margins that I think Teemu Pudas has experimented with also. But the program still plays stronger in Blitz.

another difference is calling the pawnstorm code again in the kingsafety routine,so its called twice for the actual king position

Fonzy what is the UCI parameter bug you mentioned? Is it the one that Pascal Georges has posted about a while ago, when he converted Toga for SCID and asked if Thomas would correct the main version? I don't know if Thomas has made a change there already? Do you have any recommendations for corrections to the source?

Eelco

the difference with respect to the uci parameters is that in the gui might not notice changes made to them.unless at the start of a new game.
toga 1.2.1 calls parameter functions (pawn_parameters,material_parameters,eval_parameters) in protocol.cpp after it got a "setoption".
The easiest might be to take a fresh toga II1.2.1,use winmerge to copy the tweaks into toga II and leave the uci stuff as it was.
gl and Best
Fonzy

Could you check Toga 3.1.2 and Fruit 2.3.1.
I have run 200 games in the past 2 days and
they come out even. They also play pretty much
alike.

Best to you,

Gerold.

[Thomas Gaksch]

Hello Per,
CCRL is also just testing the beta5c version. If this version is an improvement i will release the beta.

Thomas

[F. Bluemers]

Could you check Toga 3.1.2 and Fruit 2.3.1.
I have run 200 games in the past 2 days and
they come out even. They also play pretty much
alike.

Best to you,

Gerold.

No,i don't have the sources from 2.3.1 and don't want them.
I've seen enough sourcecode for today
Ryan told me he developed fruit in a different direction with regards to toga.
So it really should play a bit different!?

Best
Fonzy

[Dann Corbit]

I want to point that TogaII is not a fruit "clone", TogaII is "derived" from fruit 2.1 source, but now is about 4 years far and more than 150 elo points stronger on 1 CPU ( see http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%2 ... liste.html ) and recently introduced mutli-CPU. TogaII is the strongest open source chess engine, based on this fact I suggest to let it join the CCT 10 and may be some other tournaments.

Vincent

If you make an exception for this one, then why not for all others?

[Vinvin]

2 points here :

1) TogaII (the derived engine) still open source.
2) TogaII is the strongest open source engine.

[Christopher Conkie]

2 points here :

1) TogaII (the derived engine) still open source.
2) TogaII is the strongest open source engine.

3) TogaII is a clone of Fruit. Therefore you cant have both Fruit and TogaII in the same tournament.

[Eelco de Groot]

I have checked the differences with Toga II 1.3.1 of course and there is some change in the material evaluation of Bishops and Knights in the endgame, and changes in the three Futility Margins that I think Teemu Pudas has experimented with also. But the program still plays stronger in Blitz.

another difference is calling the pawnstorm code again in the kingsafety routine,so its called twice for the actual king position

Fonzy what is the UCI parameter bug you mentioned? Is it the one that Pascal Georges has posted about a while ago, when he converted Toga for SCID and asked if Thomas would correct the main version? I don't know if Thomas has made a change there already? Do you have any recommendations for corrections to the source?

Eelco

the difference with respect to the uci parameters is that in the gui might not notice changes made to them.unless at the start of a new game.
toga 1.2.1 calls parameter functions (pawn_parameters,material_parameters,eval_parameters) in protocol.cpp after it got a "setoption".
The easiest might be to take a fresh toga II1.2.1,use winmerge to copy the tweaks into toga II and leave the uci stuff as it was.
gl and Best
Fonzy

Fonzy, thanks but I don't think I'm going to be able to tackle this one for quite a while alone as I just don't have the programming skills, and WinMerge I am afraid is no help because all Fruit and Toga versions that I know do this the same way in protocol.cpp. In Shredder Classic GUI the way setting UCI options are handled prevents any problems I think, not sure, but for other interfaces you may be right that restarting the program after a change in options is not enough, Toga has to be reloaded, I believe that happened with Dieter Eberle's E26 settings too.

Regards, Eelco

P.S. the Pawn Storm is no problem unless Toga King Safety is enabled I believe, but Toga King Safety is best left off anyway unless all the changes from Thomas in 1.3.4 version of Toga King Safety are duplicated.

[PauloSoare]

Togga II is a legitimate child of Fruit, and has already become an adult there are times, and is very intelligent.

I think it would be interesting for all of us to let him follow his life.

I would like to see this engine to play tournaments.

Paulo Soares

[Dann Corbit]

2 points here :

1) TogaII (the derived engine) still open source.
2) TogaII is the strongest open source engine.

I agree with both points. And yet if a contest does not allow derived versions of programs, then it does not allow them.

I also agree that TogaII is fully legitimate.

[Mike S.]

3) TogaII is a clone of Fruit. Therefore you cant have both Fruit and TogaII in the same tournament.

But it is possible. I did run tournaments with Fruit & Toga both on the same computer even, in the same interface. No problem Tournament rules can be pragmatically adjusted by the organizer once in a while, or exceptions can be granted if appropriate. After all, it is a computer chess tournament only, not the election of the pope.

Most rules are not good enough to apply them without intelligent exceptions. A situation like Fruit/Toga as is it is now, most probably wasn't in mind when the anti-clone rule (3a) was created. I am not aware of any other "derivate engine" which wasn't insignificant and/or didn't disappear quickly. As for that, Toga is unique.

(Ignoring Strelka which I consider incorrectly based on reverse engineering and breach of licenses.)

Nevetheless, it is clear to me that it will not happen anyway, for various reasons. But nobody should try to tell me that it is impossible. That's just not true.