Pleading for TogaII take part in tournament

[Vinvin]

I want to point that TogaII is not a fruit "clone", TogaII is "derived" from fruit 2.1 source, but now is about 4 years far and more than 150 elo points stronger on 1 CPU ( see http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%2 ... liste.html ) and recently introduced mutli-CPU. TogaII is the strongest open source chess engine, based on this fact I suggest to let it join the CCT 10 and may be some other tournaments.

Vincent

[PauloSoare]

I agree with your point.

Paulo Soares

[playwaycool]

Right, i agree with you as well!

[Tony Thomas]

In that case I plead for Strelka to be included as well. I mean the dude had to disassemble it and write from scratch and everything. True that Toga is a legal clone, but it is stated in tournament rules that no derivatives are allowed.

[Mike S.]

I agree too. Despite "formalistic" rules, I think recent Fruit and Toga versions have become different enough. Recently, I was especially impressed by the 3.1.2 SE version which ranks #4 in the CCRL single cpu/blitz ratings.

IMO, a comparison with Strelka is not appropriate and should not influence the decision if Toga can participate. Let's not mix these topics.

[Uri Blass]

I cannot see it.

based on cegt
I can see 156 elo improvement from fruit2.1 when Toga was tested only with 1 cpu.


44 Toga II 1.4 Beta5c 1CPU 2871 21 21 621 56.8% 2823 39.1%
70 Toga II 1.3.1 2819 16 16 1091 49.5% 2822 39.1%
138 Fruit 2.1 2715 10 10 3158 58.2% 2658 34.4%

Note that the situation is differnet in ccrl 40/40 (and I understand that you talk about this list) but ccrl did not test in 40/40 1.4beta5c that seems to be significant improvement relaitve to earlier version with 1 CPU.

They have in their 40/40 list:

Toga II 1.4 beta4 4CPU 2941 +27 −27 48.3% +10.6 41.8% 431
60.3%
Toga II 1.3.1 2896 +11 −11 49.8% +0.3 42.1% 2642
Fruit 2.1 2796 +31 −31 55.6% −43.5 37.2% 349

Uri

[F. Bluemers]

I agree too. Despite "formalistic" rules, I think recent Fruit and Toga versions have become different enough. Recently, I was especially impressed by the 3.1.2 SE version which ranks #4 in the CCRL single cpu/blitz ratings.

Different enough?Maybe,but sureley not in the case of the version you mention(which is just fruit 2.1 with an occasional copy and paste error).
The proposition raises questions like :which toga should play,if one plays why not the other as well?
IMO it better to be "formalistic" to prevent going down a sliding slope.
Best
Fonzy

[Mike S.]

sureley not in the case of the version you mention(which is just fruit 2.1 with an occasional copy and paste error).

I meant Toga 3.1.2 SE, which is ~100 Elo stronger than Fruit 2.1.

Anyway, I wouldn't complain if it participates in any tournament. Of course, a line needs to be drawn somewhere because nobody will want too many similar engines in the same tournament. I just think that after several changes in both since Fruit 2.1, latest Togas are different enough from latest Fruits. It's not like we would have the same engine twice.

[Guetti]

I want to point that TogaII is not a fruit "clone", TogaII is "derived" from fruit 2.1 source, but now is about 4 years far and more than 150 elo points stronger on 1 CPU ( see http://www.husvankempen.de/nunn/40_40%2 ... liste.html ) and recently introduced mutli-CPU. TogaII is the strongest open source chess engine, based on this fact I suggest to let it join the CCT 10 and may be some other tournaments.

Vincent

By the way, I think the deadline for CCT10 is over?

Second, if there is no code of Fruit2.1 anymore in the Toga used, then of course I think there is nothing wrong with entering Toga in tournaments.

- Andy

[Mike S.]

if there is no code of Fruit2.1 anymore in the Toga used, then of course I think there is nothing wrong with entering Toga in tournaments.

Theres also nothing wrong IF it still legally contains parts that open source code. Where's the problem? Would the computers explode if they both participate?

It is simply an organizer decision.