Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Discussion of anything and everything relating to chess playing software and machines.

Moderator: Ras

Uri Blass
Posts: 11136
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by Uri Blass »

stockfish with no tablebases with 10 options with multi-pv and 10 options can find f4 at depth 66

FEN: 4K1k1/8/1p5p/1Pp3b1/8/1P3P2/P1B2P2/8 w - - 0 1

Stockfish_22011019_x64_avx2:


65/27 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +0.56 f3-f4 Bg5xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c7 Bd2-a5 Bc2-f5 Kg8-f7 Bf5-h3 h6-h5 f2-f4 h5-h4 a2-a3 Kf7-f6 f4-f5 Kf6-f7 b3-b4 Ba5xb4 a3xb4 c5xb4
65/21 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +1.10 Bc2-g6 Kg8-g7 Bg6-e4 Kg7-f6 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Bd2-a5 Kd7-c7 h6-h5 Be4-f3 h5-h4 Bf3-g4 Kf6-g7 Kc7-b7 Kg7-f6 a2-a3 Kf6-f7 Bg4-h3 Kf7-f6 Kb7-a6
65/19 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +1.10 a2-a3 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Bc2-f5 Kg8-f7 Bf5-h3 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 h5-h4 Kd7-c6 Kf7-f6 Kc6-b7 Kf6-e7 Bh3-f5 Ke7-f6 Bf5-g4 Kf6-g7 Bg4-h3
65/19 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +1.10 Bc2-d1 Bg5-d2 Bd1-c2 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Kg8-f7 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 h5-h4 Bc2-f5 Kf7-g7 Bf5-h3 Kg7-f7 Bh3-g4 Kf7-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-f6 a2-a3
65/19 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +1.11 Bc2-f5 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Bf5-h3 Kg8-f7 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Kc6-d5 h5-h4 Kd5-e4 Kf7-f6 Ke4-e3 Ba5-e1 Bh3-f1 Kf6-f7 f3-f4 Kf7-f6 Bf1-h3 Be1-a5
65/19 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +1.11 Bc2-b1 h6-h5 Bb1-d3 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 Ba5-e1 Ke4-e3 Kf6-f7 Bf1-h3 Be1-a5 f3-f4 Kf7-g7
65/19 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +1.11 Bc2-e4 h6-h5 Be4-d3 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 Ba5-e1 Ke4-e3 Kf6-f7 Bf1-h3 Be1-a5 f3-f4
65/19 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +1.65 Bc2-d3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 a2-a4 Kg8-g7 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 a4-a5 b6xa5 b5-b6 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg7-g6 Ke7-e6 Kg6-g5 Bf1-g2 Kg5-g4 Ke6-d5
65/19 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +1.65 a2-a4 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 Bc2-d3 Kg8-g7 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 a4-a5 b6xa5 b5-b6 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg7-g6 Ke7-e6 Kg6-g5 Bf1-g2 Kg5-g4 Ke6-d5
65/19 03:02 1,326,596k 7,275k +1.71 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-e6 Kg8-g7 Bc2-d3 h6-h5 Ke6-f5 Kg7-f7 f3-f4 Kf7-e7 Bd3-f1 Ke7-d6 Bf1-c4 Kd6-e7 Kf5-g5 h5-h4 Kg5xh4 Bd2xf4 Kh4-g4
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66/26 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +1.10 Bc2-d1 Bg5-d2 Bd1-c2 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 h5-h4 Bc2-f5 Bd2-a5 Bf5-h3 Ba5-d2 Kd7-e7 Bd2-b4 Ke7-e6 Bb4-e1 Ke6-d6 Be1-b4 Kd6-d5 Bb4-e1 f3-f4
66/19 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +1.11 Bc2-b1 h6-h5 Bb1-d3 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-e6 Kg7-g6 Bf1-h3 Kg6-g5 Ke6-e5 Bd2-c1 Bh3-f1 Bc1-f4+ Ke5-d5 Bf4-d2 Kd5-e4
66/22 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +1.11 Bc2-e4 h6-h5 Be4-d3 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-e6 Kg7-g6 Bf1-h3 Kg6-g5 Ke6-e5 Bd2-c1 Bh3-f1 Bc1-f4+ Ke5-d5 Bf4-d2 Kd5-e4 Kg5-f6
66/44 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +1.20 Bc2-f5 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Bf5-h3 Kg8-f8 Kc6-d5 Kf8-g7 Kd5-e4 Ba5-e1 Ke4-e3 Kg7-f6 f3-f4 Kf6-f7 Ke3-f3 Kf7-f6 Bh3-f1 Be1-a5 Bf1-e2 Kf6-f5 Kf3-e3 h5-h4 Be2-f1
66/78 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +1.44 Bc2-g6 Kg8-g7 Bg6-e4 Kg7-f6 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Bd2-a5 Kd7-c7 h6-h5 Be4-f3 h5-h4 Bf3-g4 Kf6-f7 a2-a3 Kf7-e7 Kc7-c6 Ke7-f6 Bg4-h3 Kf6-g7 Kc6-d7 Kg7-f6 Kd7-c7 Kf6-f7 Kc7-d6 Kf7-f6 f4-f5 Ba5-e1 Kd6-d5 Be1-d2 Kd5-e4 Bd2-e1 Ke4-e3 Be1-a5 Ke3-d3 Ba5-e1 a3-a4 Be1-b4 Kd3-e4 Bb4-e1 Ke4-f3 Kf6-g7 Kf3-e2 Be1-c3 Ke2-e3 Kg7-f7 Ke3-f4 Bc3-d4 Kf4-f3 Kf7-e8 Kf3-e2 Bd4-c3 Ke2-d3 Bc3-e1 f2-f3 Ke8-f7 Kd3-e4 Be1-a5 Ke4-e5 Ba5-d2 Bh3-g4 Bd2-a5 Bg4-h5+ Kf7-f8
66/74 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +1.44 a2-a3 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Bc2-f5 Kg8-g7 Bf5-h3 h5-h4 Kd7-c7 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 Kg7-f7 Bh3-g4 Kf7-e7 Kc7-b7 Ke7-f6 f2-f3 Kf6-g7 Bg4-h3 Kg7-g6 Kb7-a7 Kg6-f7 f4-f5 Kf7-f6 Bh3-g4 Kf6-g5 a3-a4 Kg5-h6 Ka7-b7 Kh6-g7 Bg4-h3 Kg7-f8 Kb7-c6 Kf8-g7 Kc6-c7 Kg7-f6 Kc7-b7 Kf6-f7 Kb7-a7 Kf7-e7 Bh3-g4 Ke7-f6 Ka7-b8 Kf6-e5 Kb8-c7 Ke5-f6 Kc7-c6 Kf6-g7 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 Kf6-g7 Bg4-h3 Ba5-d2 f3-f4 Bd2-a5 Ke4-e3 Kg7-f6 Ke3-f3 Ba5-c3 Kf3-g4 Bc3-e1 Bh3-f1 Be1-d2 Bf1-d3 Bd2-e1
66/19 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +1.69 a2-a4 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 Bc2-d3 h5-h4 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 a4-a5 b6xa5 Bd3-f1 Kg8-g7 b5-b6 Kg7-g6 Ke7-e6 Kg6-g5 Ke6-d5 Bf4-h2 b6-b7
66/19 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +1.71 Bc2-d3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 a2-a4 h5-h4 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 a4-a5 b6xa5 Bd3-f1 Kg8-g7 b5-b6 Kg7-g6 Ke7-e6 Kg6-g5 Ke6-d5 Kg5-g4 Bf1-e2+ Kg4-f5
66/19 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +1.72 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-e6 Kg8-g7 Bc2-e4 h6-h5 Ke6-f5 Kg7-f8 f3-f4 Bd2-e1 Kf5-g5 Be1xf2 Kg5xh5 Bf2-e3 Kh5-g4 Kf8-e7 Be4-d3 Ke7-f7 Kg4-g5
66/73 08:32 3,654,589k 7,133k +3.98 f3-f4 Bg5xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 b3-b4 c5xb4 Bc2-b3+ Kg8-h7 Kc6-d5 h6-h5 Kd5-e4 Kh7-g6 Ke4-e5 h5-h4 Ke5-f4 Kg6-f6
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67/22 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +1.39 a2-a3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-d8 h6-h5 Kd8-c8 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 Kg8-g7 Kc8-b7 h5-h4 Bc2-f5 Kg7-f7 Bf5-h3 Kf7-f6 f4-f5 Kf6-f7 Kb7-c7 Kf7-f6 f2-f3 Kf6-g5 Kc7-c6
67/20 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +1.44 Bc2-b1 h6-h5 Bb1-d3 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 Kg7-f6 Bf1-h3 Kf6-g6 Kc6-c7 Kg6-g7 Kc7-b7 Kg7-f6 f2-f3
67/20 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +1.44 Bc2-e4 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Be4-g6 h5-h4 Bg6-f5 Bd2-a5 Kd7-c6 Kg8-f7 Bf5-h3 Kf7-f6 f3-f4 Kf6-g7 Kc6-c7 Kg7-f6 Bh3-g4 Kf6-g6 Kc7-b7 Kg6-f6
67/22 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +1.44 Bc2-f5 h6-h5 Bf5-d3 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Bf1-h3 Kg7-f6 f3-f4 Kf6-g7 Kc6-c7 Kg7-g6 f4-f5+ Kg6-f6 Kc7-c6 Kf6-e5 f2-f3 Ke5-f6 Kc6-b7
67/23 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +1.44 Bc2-g6 Kg8-g7 Bg6-e4 Kg7-f6 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Bd2-a5 Kd7-c7 h6-h5 Be4-f3 h5-h4 Bf3-g4 Kf6-f7 Kc7-b7 Kf7-g6 Kb7-c6 Kg6-g7 Bg4-h3 Kg7-g6 Kc6-c7 Kg6-g7
67/23 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +1.58 Bc2-d1 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 b3-b4 c5xb4 Bd1-b3+ Kg8-g7 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 h6-h5 Ke4-f4 Kf6-g6 Kf4-e5
67/19 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +1.68 a2-a4 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Bd2-b4 Ke8-e7 c5-c4+ Ke7-f6 Bb4-c3+ Kf6-g6 c4xb3 Bc2xb3+ Kg8-f8 Kg6xh6 Bc3-e1 Kh6-g6 Be1xf2 a4-a5 b6xa5 Kg6-f6
67/31 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +2.42 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-e6 h6-h5 Ke6-f5 Kg8-f8 Bc2-d3 Kf8-f7 Bd3-e4 Kf7-e7 f3-f4 Bd2-e1 Kf5-g5 Be1xf2 Kg5xh5 Ke7-f6 Be4-d3 Bf2-e1 Kh5-g4
67/22 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +2.45 Bc2-d3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 a2-a4 Kg8-g7 Ke7-e6 Kg7-f8 Ke6-f5 Kf8-e7 f3-f4 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Bd2-e1 f2-f3 Be1-d2 Kf5-g5 Ke7-d6 Kg5xh4 Bd2xf4
67/27 08:56 3,820,615k 7,123k +2.58 f3-f4 Bg5xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 b3-b4 c5xb4 Bc2-b3+ Kg8-g7 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 Kf6-g5 Ke4-e5 Kg5-g4 f2-f4 h6-h5 f4-f5 h5-h4 f5-f6
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68/72 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +1.28 a2-a3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-d7 Kg8-g7 f3-f4 Kg7-f6 Kd7-c7 Bd2-a5 Kc7-b7 h6-h5 Bc2-d1 h5-h4 Bd1-g4 Kf6-g6 Bg4-h3 Kg6-f6 Kb7-a7 Kf6-g7 Bh3-g4 Kg7-f7 Bg4-f5 Kf7-f6 Bf5-d7 Kf6-g7 b3-b4 Ba5xb4 a3xb4 c5-c4 Bd7-e6 c4-c3 Be6-f5 Kg7-f6
68/20 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +1.38 Bc2-b1 h6-h5 Bb1-d3 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 Kg7-g6 Bf1-h3 Kg6-f6 f4-f5 Kf6-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-f6 a2-a3 Kf6-g5
68/22 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +1.38 Bc2-f5 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 Kg8-g7 Kc6-b7 h5-h4 Kb7-a7 Kg7-f6 Bf5-g4 Kf6-f7 a2-a3 Kf7-g7 b3-b4 Ba5xb4 a3xb4 c5-c4 Ka7xb6
68/83 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +1.39 Bc2-e4 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Kg8-g7 Be4-f3 h5-h4 Bf3-g4 Kg7-f6 f2-f3 Bd2-c3 Kd7-c7 Bc3-a5 Kc7-c6 Kf6-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-g8 a2-a3 Kg8-g7
68/19 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +1.39 Bc2-g6 Kg8-g7 Bg6-d3 Kg7-f6 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c7 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 h6-h5 Bd3-e2 h5-h4 Be2-g4 Kf6-f7 Kc7-b7 Kf7-f6 Bg4-h3 Kf6-g7 Kb7-a7
68/46 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +2.45 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-e6 h6-h5 Ke6-f5 Kg8-f7 Bc2-d3 Bd2-e1 Kf5-g5 Be1xf2 Kg5xh5 Kf7-e7 Kh5-g5 Bf2-e1 Kg5-f5 Ke7-d7 Kf5-e4 Be1-c3 Bd3-c4
68/19 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +2.57 a2-a4 Kg8-g7 a4-a5 b6xa5 b5-b6 h6-h5 Bc2-d3 Kg7-f6 Ke8-d7 h5-h4 b6-b7 Bg5-f4 Bd3-f1 Bf4-e5 Kd7-c6 h4-h3 Kc6xc5 h3-h2 Bf1-g2
68/61 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +2.74 Bc2-d3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 a2-a4 Kg8-g7 Ke7-e6 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg7-g6 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 a4-a5 b6xa5 b5-b6 Kg6-g5 Ke6-d5 Kg5-g4 Bf1-e2+ Kg4-f5 Be2-b5 Bf4-h2 Bb5-c6 Kf5-g4
68/23 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +3.99 f3-f4 Bg5xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 b3-b4 c5xb4 Bc2-b3+ Kg8-g7 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 h6-h5 Ke4-f4 Kf6-g6 Kf4-e5 h5-h4 Ke5-f4 Kg6-g7 Kf4-g4
68/45 15:47 6,673,892k 7,045k +5.31 Bc2-d1 Bg5-h4 Ke8-d7 Bh4xf2 Kd7-c6 h6-h5 f3-f4 h5-h4 Kc6xb6 c5-c4+ Kb6-a5 Bf2-e1+ Ka5-a4 c4-c3 b3-b4 Be1-d2 Ka4-b3 h4-h3 a2-a4 h3-h2
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69/23 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +1.28 a2-a3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 a3-a4 Kg8-g7 Bc2-d3 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg7-g6 Ke7-e6 Kg6-g5 Ke6-e5 Bd2-c3+ Ke5-e4 Bc3-e1 f3-f4+ Kg5-f6 Ke4-f3 Kf6-e6 Bf1-h3+ Ke6-e7
69/20 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +1.31 Bc2-b1 h6-h5 Bb1-f5 Bg5-d2 Bf5-h3 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Kg7-f6 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 h5-h4 Kc6-c7 Kf6-g7 Kc7-d7 Kg7-f7 f4-f5 Kf7-f6 Kd7-c7 Kf6-f7
69/23 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +1.31 Bc2-e4 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Kg8-g7 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Kc6-b7 h5-h4 Be4-f5 Kg7-f6 Bf5-h3 Kf6-g7 Kb7-c6 Kg7-f7 Bh3-g4 Kf7-g7 Kc6-c7 Kg7-f7 Kc7-b7
69/78 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +1.31 Bc2-g6 Kg8-g7 Bg6-d3 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Kg7-f7 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Bd3-e2 h5-h4 Be2-g4 Kf7-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-f6 Kb7-a7 Kf6-f7 Ka7-b8 Kf7-f6 Bg4-h3 Kf6-f7 Kb8-c7 Kf7-g7
69/25 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +1.32 Bc2-f5 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Kg8-f7 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Bf5-h3 h5-h4 Kc6-c7 Kf7-g7 Kc7-d7 Kg7-f6 f4-f5 Kf6-f7 Kd7-c7 Kf7-g7 Kc7-d6 Kg7-f6
69/21 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +2.73 Bc2-d3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 a2-a4 Kg8-g7 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 a4-a5 b6xa5 b5-b6 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Bf4-h2 Ke7-e6 Kg7-g6 Ke6-d5 Kg6-g5 Bf1-g2 Kg5-g4 Kd5-c4
69/57 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +2.74 a2-a4 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 Bc2-d3 Kg8-g7 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 a4-a5 b6xa5 b5-b6 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg7-h7 Ke7-e6 Kh7-g6 Bf1-g2 Kg6-g5 Ke6-d5 Kg5-g4 Kd5xc5
69/68 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +2.90 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-e6 h6-h5 Ke6-f5 Kg8-f7 f3-f4 h5-h4 Kf5-g4 h4-h3 Kg4xh3 Bd2xf4 Kh3-g4 Bf4-d2 Bc2-d3 Kf7-e6 f2-f4 Bd2-a5 Kg4-f3 Ke6-e7 Kf3-e4 Ke7-d6 Bd3-c4
69/22 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +6.55 f3-f4 Bg5xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 b3-b4 c5xb4 Bc2-b3+ Kg8-g7 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 h6-h5 Ke4-f4 Kf6-e7 Kf4-g5 Ke7-d6 f2-f4 Kd6-c5 f4-f5
69/70 21:59 9,295,812k 7,044k +6.55 Bc2-d1 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Kg7-g6 Bd1-g4 h6-h5 f4-f5+ Kg6-g5 Bg4-e2 Kg5xf5 Be2xh5 Bd2-e1 Kd7-c6 Be1xf2 Bh5-e2 c5-c4 Be2xc4 Kf5-e4 a2-a4
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70/83 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +1.24 a2-a3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 Ke7-d7 Kg8-f7 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 Kf7-f6 Bc2-d1 h5-h4 Bd1-g4 Kf6-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-f7 Bg4-h3 Kf7-f6 f2-f3 Kf6-f7 Bh3-g4 Kf7-f6 Bg4-d7 Kf6-g7
70/21 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +1.31 Bc2-b1 h6-h5 Bb1-f5 Bg5-d2 Bf5-h3 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Kg7-f6 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 h5-h4 Bh3-g4 Kf6-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-f6 Kb7-c7 Kf6-g7 Bg4-h3 Kg7-f6
70/83 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +1.31 Bc2-e4 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Be4-d5+ Kg8-g7 f3-f4 Kg7-f6 Kd7-c7 Bd2-a5 Bd5-f3 h5-h4 Bf3-g4 Kf6-g7 Bg4-h3 Kg7-f6 Kc7-b7 Kf6-g7 Kb7-c8 Kg7-f6 Kc8-c7 Kf6-g7 Bh3-g4 Kg7-f6 f4-f5 Kf6-f7 Bg4-h3 Kf7-f6 Kc7-b7
70/21 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +1.31 Bc2-g6 Kg8-g7 Bg6-d3 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Kg7-f7 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Bd3-e2 h5-h4 Be2-g4 Kf7-f6 Bg4-h3 Kf6-e7 f4-f5 Ke7-f6 Kc6-b7 Kf6-g7 Kb7-a7
70/22 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +1.32 Bc2-f5 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Bf5-h3 Kg8-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-f7 f3-f4 Kf7-g6 Kb7-c7 Kg6-f6 Kc7-c6 h5-h4 Kc6-b7 Kf6-f7 Kb7-c7 Kf7-f6 Kc7-b8 Kf6-e7
70/20 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +2.90 Bc2-d3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 a2-a4 Kg8-g7 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 a4-a5 b6xa5 b5-b6 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg7-g6 Ke7-e6 Kg6-g5 Ke6-d5 Kg5-g4 Bf1-e2+ Kg4-f5
70/19 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +2.90 a2-a4 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 Bc2-d3 Kg8-g7 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 a4-a5 b6xa5 b5-b6 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg7-g6 Ke7-e6 Kg6-g5 Ke6-d5 Kg5-g4 Bf1-e2+ Kg4-f5
70/22 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +2.90 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-e6 h6-h5 Ke6-f5 Kg8-f7 Bc2-d3 Kf7-e7 f3-f4 Bd2-e1 f2-f3 Ke7-d6 a2-a4 Be1-d2 Kf5-g5 Kd6-d5 Bd3-c4+ Kd5-d4 a4-a5 Bd2xa5 f4-f5 h5-h4
70/31 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +6.58 f3-f4 Bg5xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 b3-b4 c5xb4 Bc2-b3+ Kg8-g7 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 h6-h5 Ke4-f4 Kf6-g6 Kf4-e5 Kg6-h6 Ke5-f5 h5-h4 Kf5-g4 h4-h3 Kg4xh3 Kh6-g7 Kh3-g3 Kg7-g6 Kg3-g4 Kg6-f6 Kg4-f4
70/21 25:02 10,585,515k 7,046k +7.05 Bc2-d1 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 b3-b4 c5xb4 Bd1-b3+ Kg8-g7 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 h6-h5 Ke4-f4 Kf6-g6 Kf4-e5 Kg6-g7 Ke5-f5
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70/83 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +1.24 a2-a3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 Ke7-d7 Kg8-f7 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 Kf7-f6 Bc2-d1 h5-h4 Bd1-g4 Kf6-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-f7 Bg4-h3 Kf7-f6 f2-f3 Kf6-f7 Bh3-g4 Kf7-f6 Bg4-d7 Kf6-g7
70/21 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +1.31 Bc2-b1 h6-h5 Bb1-f5 Bg5-d2 Bf5-h3 Kg8-g7 Ke8-d7 Kg7-f6 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 f3-f4 h5-h4 Bh3-g4 Kf6-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-f6 Kb7-c7 Kf6-g7 Bg4-h3 Kg7-f6
70/83 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +1.31 Bc2-e4 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Be4-d5+ Kg8-g7 f3-f4 Kg7-f6 Kd7-c7 Bd2-a5 Bd5-f3 h5-h4 Bf3-g4 Kf6-g7 Bg4-h3 Kg7-f6 Kc7-b7 Kf6-g7 Kb7-c8 Kg7-f6 Kc8-c7 Kf6-g7 Bh3-g4 Kg7-f6 f4-f5 Kf6-f7 Bg4-h3 Kf7-f6 Kc7-b7
70/21 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +1.31 Bc2-g6 Kg8-g7 Bg6-d3 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Kg7-f7 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Bd3-e2 h5-h4 Be2-g4 Kf7-f6 Bg4-h3 Kf6-e7 f4-f5 Ke7-f6 Kc6-b7 Kf6-g7 Kb7-a7
70/22 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +1.32 Bc2-f5 h6-h5 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 Bf5-h3 Kg8-g7 Kc6-b7 Kg7-f7 f3-f4 Kf7-g6 Kb7-c7 Kg6-f6 Kc7-c6 h5-h4 Kc6-b7 Kf6-f7 Kb7-c7 Kf7-f6 Kc7-b8 Kf6-e7
71/22 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +2.39 Bc2-d3 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 a2-a4 Kg8-g7 f3-f4 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Bd2-b4 Ke7-e6 Bb4-c3 Ke6-f5 Bc3-d2 Kf5-g5 Bd2-e1 Kg5xh4 Be1xf2+ Kh4-g4 Bf2-e1 Kg4-f5 Be1-d2
71/23 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +2.39 a2-a4 Bg5-d2 Ke8-e7 h6-h5 Bc2-d3 Kg8-g7 Ke7-e6 h5-h4 Bd3-f1 Kg7-g6 f3-f4 Bd2-c3 Bf1-g2 Kg6-g7 Ke6-f5 Bc3-e1 Bg2-f1 Be1-d2 Kf5-g5 Bd2-e1 f2-f3 Kg7-f7
71/23 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +2.90 Ke8-d7 Bg5-d2 Kd7-e6 Bd2-e1 Bc2-g6 Kg8-g7 Bg6-h5 Be1xf2 f3-f4 Bf2-d4 a2-a4 Bd4-c3 f4-f5 Kg7-f8 f5-f6 Bc3-e1 Bh5-e2 Kf8-e8 f6-f7+ Ke8-f8 Ke6-f6 Be1-d2 Kf6-g6
71/28 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +6.58 f3-f4 Bg5xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 b3-b4 c5xb4 Bc2-b3+ Kg8-g7 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 h6-h5 Ke4-f4 Kf6-g6 Kf4-e5 Kg6-h6 Ke5-f5 h5-h4 Kf5-g4 h4-h3 Kg4xh3 Kh6-g7 Kh3-g3 Kg7-g6 Kg3-g4 Kg6-f6
71/20 25:19 10,699,744k 7,043k +6.58 Bc2-d1 Bg5-d2 f3-f4 Bd2xf4 Ke8-d7 Bf4-d2 Kd7-c6 Bd2-a5 b3-b4 c5xb4 Bd1-b3+ Kg8-g7 Kc6-d5 Kg7-f6 Kd5-e4 h6-h5 Ke4-f4 Kf6-g6 Kf4-e5 Kg6-h6
Top
Uri Blass
Posts: 11136
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by Uri Blass »

stockfish also can find the best move easily with 10 options in the first position at depth 28

FEN: 2k2Br1/p6b/Pq1r4/1p2p1b1/1Ppp2p1/Q1P3N1/5RPP/R3N1K1 b - - 0 1

Stockfish_22011019_x64_avx2:

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27/44 00:50 315,507k 6,287k -2.10 Rg8-h8 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 c3xd4 e5xd4 Ra1-d1 Qd6-d7 Rf2-e2 Bg5-f4 Qa3-b2 Rh8-d8 Ng3-h5 Bf4-c7 Nh5-f6 Qd7-d6 Nf6xg4 d4-d3 Qb2-g7 Bh7-f5 Re2-f2 Bf5xg4 Qg7xg4+ Kc8-b8 g2-g3 Bc7-b6 Qg4-e4 Bb6xf2+ Kg1xf2 Qd6xa6 Qe4-e5+ Kb8-c8 Qe5-f5+ Kc8-b8
27/35 00:50 315,507k 6,287k -2.03 Rg8xf8 Rf2xf8+ Rd6-d8 Rf8xd8+ Qb6xd8 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Ne1xd3 c4xd3 Qa3-a2 Kc8-b8 Qa2-f7 Bh7-e4 Qf7-e6 Bg5-f4 Ra1-d1 Qd8-b6+ Qe6xb6+ a7xb6 Rd1-e1 Be4-c6 Kg1-f2 e5-e4 Nf1-e3 Bf4-e5 Re1-c1 Be5-f4 Rc1-a1 Kb8-a7 Ne3xg4 Bf4-d2 Ng4-e3 Bc6-e8 Ne3-d5 Be8-f7
27/42 00:50 315,507k 6,287k -1.60 Rd6-e6 Bf8-c5 Qb6-d8 Ng3-f1 Qd8-d7 Qa3-b2 d4-d3 Bc5-e3 Bg5-d8 Qb2-d2 Bh7-e4 Nf1-g3 Be4-a8 Rf2-f5 Rg8-g6 Rf5-f8 Re6-f6 Rf8xf6 Rg6xf6 Be3-c5 Rf6-g6 Qd2-f2 Rg6-f6 Qf2-e3 d3-d2 Ra1-d1 d2xe1Q+ Qe3xe1 Qd7-c6 Qe1-e2 Qc6xa6 Qe2-d2 Bd8-c7 Qd2-d7+ Kc8-b8 Qd7-e8+ Qa6-c8 Bc5xa7+ Kb8-b7
27/33 00:50 315,507k 6,287k -1.17 Rd6-d5 Bf8-c5 Qb6-e6 Ng3-f1 Rd5-d7 Qa3-b2 d4-d3 Bc5-e3 Bg5-d8 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Ne1-g2 Be4-a8 Qb2-d2 Rg8-g7 Rf2-f8 Rd7-f7 Rf8-h8 Rg7-h7 Rh8xh7 Rf7xh7 Qd2-e1 Qe6-d5 Ra1-a2 Rh7-f7 Ra2-f2 Rf7-f6 Be3xa7 Rf6xa6 Ba7-c5 Qd5-e6 Qe1-d1
27/39 00:50 315,507k 6,287k -1.10 Rd6-d8 Bf8-c5 Qb6-c7 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Qa3-a2 Bh7-e4 g2-g3 Qc7-d7 Ne1-g2 Be4-a8 Bc5-e3 Bg5-e7 Ra1-d1 Rg8-h8 Rd1-e1 Be7-d6 Rf2-f6 Rh8-f8 Rf6-g6 Rf8-f7 Be3-h6 Bd6-c7 Qa2-d2 Qd7-d5 Bh6-e3
27/49 00:50 315,507k 6,287k -0.54 Bh7-g6 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Qa3-a2 d4-d3 Ne1xd3 Bg6xd3 Ra1-e1 Bg5-d8 Qa2-d2 Qd6-e6 Ng3-e4 Bd3xe4 Re1xe4 Bd8-b6 Kg1-f1 Bb6xf2 Qd2xf2 Kc8-b8 Re4-e1 Rg8-e8 Qf2-g3 Kb8-c7 Kf1-g1 Qe6xa6 Re1xe5 Re8xe5 Qg3xe5+ Kc7-b7 Kg1-f2 Qa6-b6+ Kf2-e2
27/38 00:50 315,507k 6,287k +0.30 Rd6-f6 Bf8-c5 Bg5-e3 Bc5xb6 Be3xf2+ Kg1-h1 Bf2xg3 h2xg3 Rf6-f1+ Kh1-h2 Bh7-b1 Ne1-f3 g4xf3 g2xf3 Rg8-h8+ Kh2-g2 Rf1-h1 g3-g4 Rh8-h2+ Kg2-g3 Rh2-h3+ Kg3-f2 e5-e4 Ra1xb1 e4-e3+ Kf2-g2 Rh1xb1 Kg2xh3 e3-e2 Bb6xa7 Rb1-f1 Ba7xd4
27/36 00:50 315,507k 6,287k +0.41 d4-d3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Rf2-f7 Bh7-g6 Rf7-b7 Rg8-f8 Rb7xb5 Bg5-e3+ Kg1-h1 Bg6-e8 Rb5-c5+ Be3xc5 b4xc5 Qd6-f6 Ne1xd3 c4xd3 Qa3-b4 Be8-c6 Qb4xg4+ Kc8-b8 h2-h3 Qf6-f2 Ng3-f1 Kb8-a8 Ra1-b1 Qf2-a2 Rb1-d1 Qa2-e2 Kh1-h2 Bc6-d5 Rd1-b1 Qe2-f2 Qg4-g3 Qf2xg3+ Kh2xg3 Rf8-g8+ Kg3-f2 Rg8xg2+ Kf2-e3
27/40 00:50 315,507k 6,287k +1.42 Rd6-d7 c3xd4 e5xd4 Bf8-c5 Qb6-h6 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Ra1-d1 Rg8-e8 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Qa3-a1 Qh6-c6 Nf1-d2 Be4-d5 Qa1-c3 Qc6-g6 Nd2-f1 Bg5-h6 Qc3-f6 Qg6-e4 Ne1-g2 Rd7-f7 Rd1-e1 Rf7xf6 Re1xe4 Bd5xe4 Rf2xf6 d3-d2
27/50 00:50 315,507k 6,287k +1.88 Bg5-e3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-a2 d4-d3 Ng3-f1 Be3-b6 Qa3-c1 g4-g3 Nf1xg3 e5-e4 Kg1-h1 e4-e3 Rf2-f3 Qd6-e6 Ng3-f1 Rg8-e8 h2-h3 d3-d2 Nf1xd2 e3xd2 Ra2xd2 Qe6xe1+ Qc1xe1 Re8xe1+ Kh1-h2 Bh7-d3 Kh2-g3 Bb6-e3 Rd2-a2 Kc8-d7 h3-h4 Kd7-e7 h4-h5 Be3-b6
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28/47 01:05 405,806k 6,241k -2.07 Rg8-h8 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 c3xd4 e5xd4 Ra1-d1 Qd6-d7 Rf2-e2 Bg5-f4 Qa3-b2 Rh8-d8 Ng3-h5 Bf4-c7 Nh5-f6 Qd7-d6 Nf6xg4 Bh7-f5 Ng4-e5 Qd6-f6 Ne5-f3 c4-c3 Qb2-b3 d4-d3 Ne1xd3 Bf5xd3 Re2-e6 Qf6-f5 Re6-c6 c3-c2 Rd1xd3 Qf5xd3 Qb3xc2 Qd3xc2 Rc6xc2 Rd8-d1+ Kg1-f2 Rd1-b1 Nf3-e5
28/41 01:05 405,806k 6,241k -1.65 Rd6-e6 Bf8-c5 Qb6-d8 Ng3-f1 Qd8-d7 Qa3-b2 d4-d3 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Ne1-g2 Rg8-e8 Ng2-e3 Re6-g6 Qb2-d2 Be4-a8 Qd2-d1 Bg5-d8 Ra1-a2 Rg6-g5 Ne3-g2 Re8-h8 Qd1-e1 Rg5-h5 Qe1-e3 Bd8-g5 Qe3xe5 d3-d2 Ra2-a1 d2-d1Q Ra1xd1 Qd7xd1 Rf2-f7
28/52 01:05 405,806k 6,241k -1.60 Rg8xf8 Rf2xf8+ Rd6-d8 Rf8xd8+ Qb6xd8 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Ne1xd3 c4xd3 Qa3-a2 Kc8-b8 Qa2-f7 Bh7-e4 Qf7-e6 Qd8-b6+ Qe6xb6+ a7xb6 Ra1-e1 Be4-c6 Re1xe5 d3-d2 Nf1xd2 Bg5xd2 Re5-e6 Bc6-d5 Re6xb6+ Kb8-a7 Rb6xb5 Bd5-c4 Rb5-a5 Bd2xc3 Ra5-g5 Ka7xa6 Rg5xg4 Ka6-b5 h2-h4 Kb5xb4 Kg1-f2 Kb4-c5 h4-h5 Bc3-d2 Rg4-g7 Kc5-d4 Rg7-g6 Bc4-d3 Rg6-d6+ Kd4-e4
28/41 01:05 405,806k 6,241k -1.32 Rd6-d5 Bf8-c5 Qb6-e6 Ng3-f1 Rd5-d7 Qa3-b2 d4-d3 Bc5-e3 Bg5-d8 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Ne1-g2 Be4-a8 Qb2-d2 Rd7-h7 Be3-c5 Rh7-d7 Ra1-e1 Rg8-e8 Nf1-e3 Ba8-f3 Rf2-f1 Rd7-h7 h2-h4 Re8-h8 Rf1-f2 Qe6xa6 Ne3-f1 Qa6-f6 Qd2-e3
28/40 01:05 405,806k 6,241k -0.98 Rd6-d8 Bf8-c5 Qb6-c7 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Qa3-a2 Qc7-d7 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Ne1-g2 Be4-a8 Ra1-e1 Rd8-e8 Qa2-b1 Rg8-g6 Qb1-d1 Rg6xa6 Ng2-e3 Ba8-f3 Rf2xf3 g4xf3 Qd1xf3 e5-e4 Qf3-g2 Bg5-f6 Ne3-d1 Ra6-a1 Qg2-b2 d3-d2 Nf1xd2 Ra1xd1 Re1xd1 e4-e3 Rd1-e1
28/50 01:05 405,806k 6,241k -0.44 Bh7-g6 c3xd4 e5xd4 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-d1 Rg8-e8 Rf2-e2 Re8xe2 Ng3xe2 Qd6-e5 Qa3-b2 Bg5-e3+ Kg1-h1 Qe5-f5 Ne1-d3 c4xd3 Ne2xd4 Qf5-f6 Qb2-c3+ Kc8-d7 Nd4xb5 Qf6xc3 Nb5xc3 d3-d2 Nc3-d5 Be3-g5 b4-b5 Bg6-f7 Nd5-c3 Kd7-c7 Rd1-f1 Bf7-e6 h2-h3 g4xh3 g2xh3 Kc7-b6 Kh1-g2 Kb6-a5 b5-b6 Ka5xb6 Kg2-g3
28/43 01:05 405,806k 6,241k 0.00 d4-d3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Rf2-f7 Bh7-g6 Rf7-b7 Rg8-f8 Rb7xb5 Bg5-e3+ Kg1-h1 Bg6-e8 Rb5-c5+ Be3xc5 b4xc5 Qd6-f6 Ne1xd3 c4xd3 Qa3-b4 Be8-c6 Qb4xg4+ Kc8-c7 h2-h3 d3-d2 Ng3-e4 Bc6xe4 Qg4xe4 Qf6-f1+ Kh1-h2 Qf1xa1 Qe4-b7+ Kc7-d8 Qb7-b8+ Kd8-e7 Qb8xe5+ Ke7-f7 Qe5-f4+ Kf7-g6 Qf4-g4+ Kg6-h6 Qg4-h4+ Kh6-g7 Qh4-g4+
28/45 01:05 405,806k 6,241k +1.54 Rd6-d7 c3xd4 e5xd4 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Bf8-c5 Qb6-h6 Ra1-d1 Rg8-e8 Qa3-a5 Qh6-c6 Qa5-a1 Bh7-e4 Nf1-d2 Qc6-e6 Nd2-f1 Be4-a8 Qa1-c3 Bg5-h4 g2-g3 Bh4-d8 Ne1-g2 Qe6xa6 Rd1-a1 Qa6-c6 Ra1xa7 Ba8-b7 Ra7xb7 Kc8xb7 Ng2-e3 Bd8-c7 Ne3xg4 Re8-e2 Nf1-e3 Rd7-d8 Rf2xe2 d3xe2
28/42 01:05 405,806k 6,241k +2.24 Bg5-e3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-a2 d4-d3 Ng3-f1 Be3-b6 Qa3-c1 g4-g3 Nf1xg3 e5-e4 Kg1-h1 e4-e3 Rf2-f3 Qd6-e6 Ng3-f1 Rg8-e8 Rf3xe3 Bb6xe3 Nf1xe3 Qe6xe3 Qc1xe3 Re8xe3 Ne1-f3 Bh7-e4 Kh1-g1 Be4xf3 g2xf3 Re3xf3 Kg1-g2 Rf3-e3 Kg2-f2 Re3-e4 Kf2-f3 Re4-h4 Kf3-g3 Rh4-h6 Ra2-a1 Kc8-c7 h2-h4 Kc7-b6
28/43 01:05 405,806k 6,241k +2.78 Rd6-f6 Bf8-c5 Bg5-e3 Bc5xb6 Be3xf2+ Kg1-h1 Bf2xg3 h2xg3 Rf6-f1+ Kh1-h2 Bh7-b1 Ne1-f3 g4xf3 g2xf3 Rg8-h8+ Kh2-g2 Rf1-h1 g3-g4 Rh8-h2+ Kg2-g3 Rh2-h3+ Kg3-g2 e5-e4 f3-f4 Rh1-h2+ Kg2-g1 e4-e3 Ra1xb1 Rh2-h1+ Kg1-g2 Rh3-h2+ Kg2-f3 Rh1xb1 Qa3-a5 e3-e2 Qa5xb5 Rh2-h3+ Kf3-g2 Rh3-g3+ Kg2-h2
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29/47 01:26 532,675k 6,184k -2.12 Rg8-h8 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 c3xd4 e5xd4 Ra1-d1 Qd6-d7 Rf2-e2 Bg5-f4 Qa3-b2 Rh8-d8 Ng3-h5 Bf4-c7 Nh5-f6 Qd7-f7 Re2-f2 d4-d3 Nf6xg4 Bc7-b6 Ne1-f3 Qf7-c7 Qb2-c3 Bh7-f5 Ng4-e5 Bf5-e4 Rd1-e1 Be4-a8 Kg1-f1 Bb6xf2 Kf1xf2 Qc7-b6+ Kf2-f1 Qb6-f6 Qc3-d2 Ba8xf3 Ne5xf3 c4-c3 Qd2-f2 Qf6-c6 Nf3-e5
29/52 01:26 532,675k 6,184k -1.79 Rg8xf8 Rf2xf8+ Rd6-d8 Rf8xd8+ Qb6xd8 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Ne1xd3 c4xd3 Qa3-a2 Kc8-b8 Qa2-f7 Bh7-e4 Qf7-e6 Qd8-b6+ Qe6xb6+ a7xb6 Ra1-e1 Be4-c6 Re1xe5 d3-d2 Nf1xd2 Bg5xd2 Re5-e6 Bc6-d5 Re6xb6+ Kb8-a7 Rb6xb5 Bd5-c4 Rb5-f5 Ka7xa6 Kg1-f2 Bd2xc3 Rf5-g5 Bc3-d4+ Kf2-e1 Bd4-c3+ Ke1-d1 Bc4-f7 Kd1-c2 Bc3xb4 Rg5xg4 Ka6-b5 Kc2-d3 Bf7-e6 Rg4-g5+ Kb5-c6
29/43 01:26 532,675k 6,184k -1.76 Rd6-e6 Bf8-c5 Qb6-d8 Ng3-f1 Qd8-d7 Qa3-a2 d4-d3 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Ne1-g2 Be4-a8 Nf1-e3 Re6-h6 Ne3-f5 Rh6-e6 Ra1-f1 Rg8-g6 Qa2-b1 Re6xa6 Qb1-d1 Bg5-d8 Nf5-e3 Ba8-f3 Rf2xf3 g4xf3 Qd1xf3 Kc8-b8 Ne3-d5 Ra6-f6 Nd5xf6 Rg6xf6 Qf3-d1 Rf6xf1+ Qd1xf1 a7-a5
29/46 01:26 532,675k 6,184k -1.07 Rd6-d8 Bf8-c5 Qb6-c7 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Qa3-a2 g4-g3 Nf1xg3 d3-d2 Ra1-d1 d2xe1B Rd1xe1 Bh7-d3 Qa2-a1 Bd3-h7 Qa1-b2 Bh7-d3 Bc5-e3 Bg5-h4 Rf2-f3 Bd3-e4 Ng3xe4 Bh4xe1 Qb2-e2 Be1-h4 g2-g3 Qc7-c6 Be3-f2 Qc6-d7 Qe2-e3 Qd7-d5 Kg1-g2 Bh4-e7 Qe3xa7 Qd5xe4
29/38 01:26 532,675k 6,184k -1.00 Rd6-d5 Bf8-c5 Qb6-e6 Ng3-f1 Rd5-d7 Qa3-b2 d4-d3 Bc5-e3 Bg5-d8 Qb2-d2 Bh7-e4 g2-g3 Be4-a8 Ne1-g2 Qe6-g6 Be3-c5 Bd8-g5 Qd2-e1 Qg6-e6 Bc5-d4 Bg5-d8 Qe1xe5 Qe6xe5 Bd4xe5 Bd8-b6 Be5-f4 Bb6xf2+ Kg1xf2 Ba8xg2 Kf2xg2 Rg8-e8
29/53 01:26 532,675k 6,184k -0.42 Bh7-g6 c3xd4 e5xd4 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-d1 Rg8-e8 Rf2-e2 Re8xe2 Ng3xe2 Qd6-e5 Qa3-b2 Bg5-e3+ Kg1-h1 Qe5-f5 Ne1-d3 c4xd3 Ne2xd4 Qf5-f6 Qb2-c3+ Kc8-d7 Nd4xb5 Qf6xc3 Nb5xc3 d3-d2 Nc3-d5 Be3-g5 b4-b5 Bg6-f7 Nd5-c3 Kd7-c7 h2-h3 g4xh3 g2xh3 Bf7-b3 Rd1-b1 Bb3-c2 Rb1-g1 d2-d1Q Nc3xd1 Bc2-e4+ Kh1-h2 Bg5-f4+ Rg1-g3
29/56 01:26 532,675k 6,184k +1.37 d4-d3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Rf2-f7 Bh7-g6 Ne1xd3 Qd6xd3 Rf7-b7 Bg6-e8 Qa3-a2 Be8-c6 Rb7-f7 Qd3xc3 Ra1-d1 Rg8-d8 Rd1xd8+ Bg5xd8 Qa2-e2 Qc3-d4+ Kg1-h1 c4-c3 Rf7-f1 Bd8-g5 Rf1-d1 Bg5-d2 Ng3-f5 Qd4xb4 Qe2xe5 c3-c2 Qe5-h8+ Kc8-c7 Qh8-e5+ Kc7-d7 Qe5-g7+ Kd7-d8
29/43 01:26 532,675k 6,184k +1.49 Rd6-d7 c3xd4 e5xd4 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Bf8-c5 Qb6-h6 Ra1-d1 Rg8-e8 Qa3-a5 Qh6-c6 Qa5-a1 Bh7-e4 Nf1-d2 Qc6-e6 Nd2-f1 Bg5-d8 Nf1-d2 Be4-a8 Nd2-f1 Bd8-h4 g2-g3 Qe6-d5 Ne1-g2 Bh4-g5 Rd1-e1 Re8xe1 Qa1xe1 d3-d2 Nf1xd2 Bg5xd2 Rf2-f8+ Kc8-c7 Qe1-f2 c4-c3 Bc5xa7 Qd5xg2+ Qf2xg2
29/58 01:26 532,675k 6,184k +2.31 Bg5-e3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-a2 d4-d3 Ng3-f1 Be3-b6 Qa3-c1 g4-g3 Nf1xg3 e5-e4 Kg1-h1 e4-e3 Rf2-f3 Qd6-e6 Ng3-e2 d3-d2 Qc1-d1 Bb6-c7 Rf3-g3 Bc7xg3 Ne2xg3 Bh7-e4 Qd1-e2 Be4-d3 Qe2-d1 d2xe1Q+ Qd1xe1 Rg8-f8 h2-h3 Qe6-e5 Kh1-g1 Qe5-g5 Ra2-b2 Rf8-g8 Ng3-f1 Rg8-e8 Nf1-g3 e3-e2 Ng3xe2 Qg5-e3+ Qe1-f2 Bd3xe2
29/52 01:26 532,675k 6,184k +3.80 Rd6-f6 Bf8-c5 Bg5-e3 Bc5xb6 Be3xf2+ Kg1-h1 Bf2xg3 h2xg3 Rf6-f1+ Kh1-h2 Bh7-b1 Ne1-f3 g4xf3 g2xf3 Rg8-h8+ Kh2-g2 Rf1-h1 g3-g4 Rh8-h2+ Kg2-g3 Rh2-h3+ Kg3-f2 e5-e4 c3xd4 Rh1-h2+ Kf2-g1 Bb1-d3 Qa3-a2 Rh2xa2 Ra1xa2 Rh3-g3+ Kg1-h2 Rg3xf3 g4-g5 e4-e3 g5-g6 Bd3xg6 d4-d5 Bg6-e4 Bb6xa7 c4-c3 Ba7-c5 c3-c2
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30/55 02:07 779,199k 6,089k -2.70 Bg5-f4 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ng3-f1 Bh7-e4 Qa3-a2 d4-d3 g2-g3 Bf4-g5 Ne1-g2 Bg5-d8 Ng2-e3 Qd6-e6 Nf1-d2 Be4-c6 Nd2xc4 b5xc4 Qa2xc4 Qe6xc4 Ne3xc4 Bd8-c7 Rf2-f5 Bc6-b5 Nc4-e3 Bc7-b6 Rf5xe5 Bb5-c6 Kg1-f1 Bb6xe3 Re5xe3 d3-d2 Ra1-d1 Rg8-d8 Kf1-e2 Bc6-b5+ c3-c4
30/52 02:07 779,199k 6,089k -1.93 Rg8xf8 Rf2xf8+ Rd6-d8 Rf8xd8+ Qb6xd8 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Ne1xd3 c4xd3 Qa3-a2 Kc8-b8 Qa2-f7 Bh7-e4 Qf7-e6 Qd8-b6+ Qe6xb6+ a7xb6 Ra1-e1 Be4-c6 Re1xe5 d3-d2 Nf1xd2 Bg5xd2 Re5-e6 Bc6-d5 Re6xb6+ Kb8-a7 Rb6-d6 Bd2-e3+ Kg1-f1 Bd5-c4+ Kf1-e1 Be3-f4 Rd6-d7+ Ka7xa6 g2-g3 Bf4-e5 Ke1-d2 Bc4-g8 Rd7-e7 Be5-f6 Re7-e4 Bf6-g5+ Kd2-e2 Bg8-f7 Re4-d4 Ka6-b6 Ke2-e1 Kb6-c7 Rd4xg4 Bg5-f6 Ke1-d2
30/40 02:07 779,199k 6,089k -1.55 Rd6-e6 Bf8-c5 Qb6-d8 Ng3-f1 Qd8-d7 Qa3-b2 d4-d3 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Ne1-g2 Re6-e8 Ng2-e3 Bg5-d8 Qb2-c1 Be4-a8 Ne3-g2 Rg8-g6 Qc1-d1 Re8-e6 Nf1-e3 Ba8-f3 Rf2xf3 g4xf3 Qd1xf3 Kc8-b8 Ne3-d5 Re6xa6 Ra1-f1 Ra6-f6 Nd5xf6 Rg6xf6 Qf3-d1 Rf6xf1+ Qd1xf1 a7-a5 Ng2-e3
30/52 02:07 779,199k 6,089k -1.10 Rd6-d5 Bf8-c5 Qb6-e6 Ng3-f1 Rd5-d7 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Ne1-g2 Be4-a8 Ra1-e1 Rd7-f7 Rf2xf7 Qe6xf7 Qa3-a2 d4xc3 Qa2-e2 Qf7-f3 Qe2xf3 Ba8xf3 Bc5xa7 Rg8-d8 Ng2-e3 Rd8-d2 Re1-c1 Rd2-a2 Rc1xc3 Ra2xa6 Ba7-c5 Ra6-a1 Ne3-c2 Ra1-a2 Nc2-e1 Bf3-e4 Bc5-e3 Bg5-e7 Nf1-d2 Be4-c6 Rc3-c2 Ra2-a3
30/43 02:07 779,199k 6,089k -1.01 Rd6-d8 Bf8-c5 Qb6-e6 Ng3-f1 Rd8-d7 Qa3-b2 d4-d3 Bc5-e3 Bg5-d8 Qb2-d2 Bh7-e4 Nf1-g3 Be4-a8 Rf2-f5 Rg8-h8 Qd2-f2 Rd7-h7 Ra1-a2 Rh7xh2 Rf5-f8 Rh2-h7 Rf8xh8 Rh7xh8 Be3xa7 Bd8-g5 Ba7-e3 Bg5-f4 a6-a7 Kc8-b7 Be3xf4 e5xf4 Qf2xf4 Qe6xe1+ Ng3-f1
30/57 02:07 779,199k 6,089k -0.34 Bh7-g6 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 c3xd4 e5xd4 Ra1-d1 Rg8-e8 Rf2-e2 Re8xe2 Ng3xe2 Qd6-e5 Qa3-b2 Bg5-e3+ Kg1-h1 Qe5-f5 Ne1-d3 c4xd3 Ne2xd4 Qf5-f6 Qb2-c3+ Kc8-d7 Nd4xb5 Qf6xc3 Nb5xc3 d3-d2 Nc3-d5 Be3-g5 b4-b5 Bg6-f7 Nd5-c3 Kd7-c7 h2-h3 Bf7-b3 Rd1-b1 Bb3-c2 Rb1-f1 Kc7-b6 h3-h4
30/52 02:07 779,199k 6,089k +1.37 d4-d3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Rf2-f7 Bh7-g6 Ne1xd3 Qd6xd3 Rf7-b7 Bg6-e8 Qa3-a2 Rg8-f8 Ra1-e1 Be8-c6 Qa2-e2 Qd3xe2 Re1xe2 Bc6xb7 a6xb7+ Kc8xb7 Re2xe5 Bg5-d2 Ng3-e2 a7-a6 Re5-e7+ Kb7-c6 Re7-e4 Kc6-c7 Re4-e7+ Kc7-d6 Re7-e4 Bd2-h6 Ne2-g3 Kd6-d5 Re4-d4+ Kd5-c6 Rd4-e4 Rf8-f6 Re4-e2 Kc6-d5 Re2-e4 Rf6-f4 Re4-e8 Bh6-g7 Ng3-e2 Rf4-f7 h2-h4
30/47 02:07 779,199k 6,089k +1.61 Rd6-d7 c3xd4 e5xd4 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Bf8-c5 Qb6-h6 Ra1-d1 Rg8-e8 Qa3-a5 Qh6-c6 Qa5-a1 Bh7-e4 Nf1-g3 Qc6-e6 Ng3-f1 Bg5-d8 Nf1-e3 Bd8-h4 g2-g3 Bh4-g5 Ne3-f1 Qe6-c6 Bc5-d4 Bg5-d8 Bd4-e3 Qc6-e6 Qa1-c3 Be4-a8 Ne1-g2 Ba8-f3 Rd1-e1 Bd8-f6 Qc3-a3 Qe6-c6 Be3-c5 Re8xe1 Ng2xe1
30/54 02:07 779,199k 6,089k +1.92 Bg5-e3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-a2 d4-d3 Ng3-f1 Be3-b6 Qa3-c1 g4-g3 Nf1xg3 e5-e4 Kg1-h1 e4-e3 Rf2-f3 Qd6-e6 Qc1-d1 Bb6-c7 Rf3-f1 Bc7xg3 Qd1-h5 Bh7-g6 Qh5xb5 Bg3-c7 Qb5-b7+ Kc8-d8 Qb7xa7 Qe6-d6 Ne1-f3 e3-e2 Rf1-e1 Bg6-e4 Qa7-f2 Rg8-h8 a6-a7 Be4xf3 a7-a8Q+ Bf3xa8 Ra2xa8+ Bc7-b8
30/47 02:07 779,199k 6,089k +4.75 Rd6-f6 Bf8-c5 Bg5-e3 Ra1-a2 Rf6xf2 Ra2xf2 Qb6-f6 Ng3-h1 g4-g3 h2xg3 Rg8-h8 Qa3-b2 Bh7-e4 Qb2-e2 Be4-f5 Bc5-e7 Qf6xe7 Qe2-f3 Rh8-f8 Qf3-c6+ Kc8-d8 g3-g4 d4-d3 Ne1-f3 Rf8-f6 Qc6-d5+ Bf5-d7 Qd5-a8+ Bd7-c8 Qa8-e4 Be3xf2+ Nh1xf2 Rf6xa6 Qe4-d5+ Qe7-d7 Qd5-g8+ Kd8-c7 Qg8-g5 Ra6-e6 Nf2-e4 Kc7-b8 Ne4-c5
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30/55 02:11 800,305k 6,089k -2.70 Bg5-f4 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ng3-f1 Bh7-e4 Qa3-a2 d4-d3 g2-g3 Bf4-g5 Ne1-g2 Bg5-d8 Ng2-e3 Qd6-e6 Nf1-d2 Be4-c6 Nd2xc4 b5xc4 Qa2xc4 Qe6xc4 Ne3xc4 Bd8-c7 Rf2-f5 Bc6-b5 Nc4-e3 Bc7-b6 Rf5xe5 Bb5-c6 Kg1-f1 Bb6xe3 Re5xe3 d3-d2 Ra1-d1 Rg8-d8 Kf1-e2 Bc6-b5+ c3-c4
30/52 02:11 800,305k 6,089k -1.93 Rg8xf8 Rf2xf8+ Rd6-d8 Rf8xd8+ Qb6xd8 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Ne1xd3 c4xd3 Qa3-a2 Kc8-b8 Qa2-f7 Bh7-e4 Qf7-e6 Qd8-b6+ Qe6xb6+ a7xb6 Ra1-e1 Be4-c6 Re1xe5 d3-d2 Nf1xd2 Bg5xd2 Re5-e6 Bc6-d5 Re6xb6+ Kb8-a7 Rb6-d6 Bd2-e3+ Kg1-f1 Bd5-c4+ Kf1-e1 Be3-f4 Rd6-d7+ Ka7xa6 g2-g3 Bf4-e5 Ke1-d2 Bc4-g8 Rd7-e7 Be5-f6 Re7-e4 Bf6-g5+ Kd2-e2 Bg8-f7 Re4-d4 Ka6-b6 Ke2-e1 Kb6-c7 Rd4xg4 Bg5-f6 Ke1-d2
30/40 02:11 800,305k 6,089k -1.55 Rd6-e6 Bf8-c5 Qb6-d8 Ng3-f1 Qd8-d7 Qa3-b2 d4-d3 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Ne1-g2 Re6-e8 Ng2-e3 Bg5-d8 Qb2-c1 Be4-a8 Ne3-g2 Rg8-g6 Qc1-d1 Re8-e6 Nf1-e3 Ba8-f3 Rf2xf3 g4xf3 Qd1xf3 Kc8-b8 Ne3-d5 Re6xa6 Ra1-f1 Ra6-f6 Nd5xf6 Rg6xf6 Qf3-d1 Rf6xf1+ Qd1xf1 a7-a5 Ng2-e3
30/52 02:11 800,305k 6,089k -1.10 Rd6-d5 Bf8-c5 Qb6-e6 Ng3-f1 Rd5-d7 g2-g3 Bh7-e4 Ne1-g2 Be4-a8 Ra1-e1 Rd7-f7 Rf2xf7 Qe6xf7 Qa3-a2 d4xc3 Qa2-e2 Qf7-f3 Qe2xf3 Ba8xf3 Bc5xa7 Rg8-d8 Ng2-e3 Rd8-d2 Re1-c1 Rd2-a2 Rc1xc3 Ra2xa6 Ba7-c5 Ra6-a1 Ne3-c2 Ra1-a2 Nc2-e1 Bf3-e4 Bc5-e3 Bg5-e7 Nf1-d2 Be4-c6 Rc3-c2 Ra2-a3
30/43 02:11 800,305k 6,089k -1.01 Rd6-d8 Bf8-c5 Qb6-e6 Ng3-f1 Rd8-d7 Qa3-b2 d4-d3 Bc5-e3 Bg5-d8 Qb2-d2 Bh7-e4 Nf1-g3 Be4-a8 Rf2-f5 Rg8-h8 Qd2-f2 Rd7-h7 Ra1-a2 Rh7xh2 Rf5-f8 Rh2-h7 Rf8xh8 Rh7xh8 Be3xa7 Bd8-g5 Ba7-e3 Bg5-f4 a6-a7 Kc8-b7 Be3xf4 e5xf4 Qf2xf4 Qe6xe1+ Ng3-f1
30/57 02:11 800,305k 6,089k -0.34 Bh7-g6 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 c3xd4 e5xd4 Ra1-d1 Rg8-e8 Rf2-e2 Re8xe2 Ng3xe2 Qd6-e5 Qa3-b2 Bg5-e3+ Kg1-h1 Qe5-f5 Ne1-d3 c4xd3 Ne2xd4 Qf5-f6 Qb2-c3+ Kc8-d7 Nd4xb5 Qf6xc3 Nb5xc3 d3-d2 Nc3-d5 Be3-g5 b4-b5 Bg6-f7 Nd5-c3 Kd7-c7 h2-h3 Bf7-b3 Rd1-b1 Bb3-c2 Rb1-f1 Kc7-b6 h3-h4
30/52 02:11 800,305k 6,089k +1.37 d4-d3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Rf2-f7 Bh7-g6 Ne1xd3 Qd6xd3 Rf7-b7 Bg6-e8 Qa3-a2 Rg8-f8 Ra1-e1 Be8-c6 Qa2-e2 Qd3xe2 Re1xe2 Bc6xb7 a6xb7+ Kc8xb7 Re2xe5 Bg5-d2 Ng3-e2 a7-a6 Re5-e7+ Kb7-c6 Re7-e4 Kc6-c7 Re4-e7+ Kc7-d6 Re7-e4 Bd2-h6 Ne2-g3 Kd6-d5 Re4-d4+ Kd5-c6 Rd4-e4 Rf8-f6 Re4-e2 Kc6-d5 Re2-e4 Rf6-f4 Re4-e8 Bh6-g7 Ng3-e2 Rf4-f7 h2-h4
30/47 02:11 800,305k 6,089k +1.61 Rd6-d7 c3xd4 e5xd4 Ng3-f1 d4-d3 Bf8-c5 Qb6-h6 Ra1-d1 Rg8-e8 Qa3-a5 Qh6-c6 Qa5-a1 Bh7-e4 Nf1-g3 Qc6-e6 Ng3-f1 Bg5-d8 Nf1-e3 Bd8-h4 g2-g3 Bh4-g5 Ne3-f1 Qe6-c6 Bc5-d4 Bg5-d8 Bd4-e3 Qc6-e6 Qa1-c3 Be4-a8 Ne1-g2 Ba8-f3 Rd1-e1 Bd8-f6 Qc3-a3 Qe6-c6 Be3-c5 Re8xe1 Ng2xe1
30/54 02:11 800,305k 6,089k +1.92 Bg5-e3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-a2 d4-d3 Ng3-f1 Be3-b6 Qa3-c1 g4-g3 Nf1xg3 e5-e4 Kg1-h1 e4-e3 Rf2-f3 Qd6-e6 Qc1-d1 Bb6-c7 Rf3-f1 Bc7xg3 Qd1-h5 Bh7-g6 Qh5xb5 Bg3-c7 Qb5-b7+ Kc8-d8 Qb7xa7 Qe6-d6 Ne1-f3 e3-e2 Rf1-e1 Bg6-e4 Qa7-f2 Rg8-h8 a6-a7 Be4xf3 a7-a8Q+ Bf3xa8 Ra2xa8+ Bc7-b8
31/58 02:11 800,305k 6,089k +5.20 Rd6-f6 Bf8-c5 Bg5-e3 Bc5xb6 Be3xf2+ Kg1-h1 Bf2xg3 h2xg3 Rf6-f1+ Kh1-h2 Bh7-b1 Ne1-f3 g4xf3 g2xf3 Rg8-h8+ Kh2-g2 Rf1-h1 g3-g4 Rh8-h2+ Kg2-g3 Rh2-h3+ Kg3-g2 e5-e4 c3xd4 Rh1-h2+ Kg2-g1 Bb1-d3 Qa3-a2 Rh2xa2 Ra1xa2 Rh3-g3+ Kg1-f2 Rg3xf3+ Kf2-g2 c4-c3 Bb6xa7 c3-c2 Ra2xc2+ Bd3xc2 Ba7-c5 Rf3-a3 a6-a7 e4-e3 d4-d5 e3-e2 Kg2-f2 Bc2-d3 Bc5-d4 Kc8-d7
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dkappe
Posts: 1632
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:52 pm
Full name: Dietrich Kappe

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by dkappe »

Multipv 10? Isn’t that an admission of failure?
Fat Titz by Stockfish, the engine with the bodaciously big net. Remember: size matters. If you want to learn more about this engine just google for "Fat Titz".
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jtwright
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:20 pm
Full name: Jeremy Wright

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by jtwright »

What's tricky is that we don't really have a fair basis of comparison. Here we've picked out a couple of positions where SF w/ NNUE seems to perform worse. But for all we know for every one of these positions there's 10 positions where SF w/ NNUE finds the right way forward that's missed by HCE Stockfish.

I'm not saying it's necessarily true, but I think we should consider the bias at play here. Naturally there's a fixation on the positions NNUE struggles with. We wouldn't spend much time thinking about positions that say SF 14 does better than, say, SF 11 because that's the expectation
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Cornfed
Posts: 511
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:40 pm
Full name: Brian D. Smith

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by Cornfed »

jtwright wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:03 am What's tricky is that we don't really have a fair basis of comparison. Here we've picked out a couple of positions where SF w/ NNUE seems to perform worse. But for all we know for every one of these positions there's 10 positions where SF w/ NNUE finds the right way forward that's missed by HCE Stockfish.

I'm not saying it's necessarily true, but I think we should consider the bias at play here. Naturally there's a fixation on the positions NNUE struggles with. We wouldn't spend much time thinking about positions that say SF 14 does better than, say, SF 11 because that's the expectation
+1

Sadly (perhaps) it is in the nature of people to obsess over 'the exceptions' and make more of it than is warranted. You see it in 'computer chess' discussion; you see it in politics (rampant voter fraud, etc) and... didn't that partisan recount in Maricopa county result in the 'Loser In Chief" actually losing by a little bit more than he did initially? :oops:

Sorry, for the slight digression to try and make a point.
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gaard
Posts: 463
Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 am
Location: Holland, MI
Full name: Martin W

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by gaard »

Cornfed wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:20 am
jtwright wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:03 am What's tricky is that we don't really have a fair basis of comparison. Here we've picked out a couple of positions where SF w/ NNUE seems to perform worse. But for all we know for every one of these positions there's 10 positions where SF w/ NNUE finds the right way forward that's missed by HCE Stockfish.

I'm not saying it's necessarily true, but I think we should consider the bias at play here. Naturally there's a fixation on the positions NNUE struggles with. We wouldn't spend much time thinking about positions that say SF 14 does better than, say, SF 11 because that's the expectation
+1

Sadly (perhaps) it is in the nature of people to obsess over 'the exceptions' and make more of it than is warranted. You see it in 'computer chess' discussion; you see it in politics (rampant voter fraud, etc) and... didn't that partisan recount in Maricopa county result in the 'Loser In Chief" actually losing by a little bit more than he did initially? :oops:

Sorry, for the slight digression to try and make a point.
I don't see anyone obsessing over anything. My mediocre engine is rated barely 2700, and if people were to actually 'obsess' over it, then I would likely be able to make it perform better, faster. It should only improve SF overall if every discrepancy is accounted for and understood, although that is often unrealistic. That would make it easier to find real gains. None of this should put anyone on the defense.
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jtwright
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:20 pm
Full name: Jeremy Wright

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by jtwright »

gaard wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:44 am
Cornfed wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:20 am
jtwright wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:03 am What's tricky is that we don't really have a fair basis of comparison. Here we've picked out a couple of positions where SF w/ NNUE seems to perform worse. But for all we know for every one of these positions there's 10 positions where SF w/ NNUE finds the right way forward that's missed by HCE Stockfish.

I'm not saying it's necessarily true, but I think we should consider the bias at play here. Naturally there's a fixation on the positions NNUE struggles with. We wouldn't spend much time thinking about positions that say SF 14 does better than, say, SF 11 because that's the expectation
+1

Sadly (perhaps) it is in the nature of people to obsess over 'the exceptions' and make more of it than is warranted. You see it in 'computer chess' discussion; you see it in politics (rampant voter fraud, etc) and... didn't that partisan recount in Maricopa county result in the 'Loser In Chief" actually losing by a little bit more than he did initially? :oops:

Sorry, for the slight digression to try and make a point.
I don't see anyone obsessing over anything. My mediocre engine is rated barely 2700, and if people were to actually 'obsess' over it, then I would likely be able to make it perform better, faster. It should only improve SF overall if every discrepancy is accounted for and understood, although that is unrealistic. That would make it easier to find real gains. None of this should put anyone on the defense.
I agree that scrutiny is good here and can help grow Stockfish. But I also feel like every couple of days there's some thread basically finding some position and then going "SF NNUE makes no sense" and that's not really a reasonable conclusion to draw from these relatively small samples. IIRC in one of the threads, even though it was SF14 w/ NNUE, the position was unbalanced enough that basically all the scoring was probably done by the HCE anyway. No offense is intended to OP here, I think that finding positions like this and trying to understand why they work well in one engine/evaluator/etc. but not another is good.

I'm all for improvement and critique, but I think specifically forming a narrative that NNUE is having some general adverse affect on the analysis aspect of Stockfish is premature given the sample size we look at. It might be the case, but I haven't really seen anything conclusive to suggest that.
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gaard
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Joined: Mon Jun 07, 2010 3:13 am
Location: Holland, MI
Full name: Martin W

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by gaard »

I'm all for improvement and critique, but I think specifically forming a narrative that NNUE is having some general adverse affect on the analysis aspect of Stockfish is premature given the sample size we look at. It might be the case, but I haven't really seen anything conclusive to suggest that.
I agree, but I haven't seen anyone attempting to form that narrative. OP even acknowledged that NNUE made SF "a lot stronger". Maybe I missed some posts, but I just don't get the level of defensiveness these kind of posts bring. Just because something is great or #1 does not mean it can't be improved.
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jtwright
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2021 9:20 pm
Full name: Jeremy Wright

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by jtwright »

gaard wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 4:01 am
I'm all for improvement and critique, but I think specifically forming a narrative that NNUE is having some general adverse affect on the analysis aspect of Stockfish is premature given the sample size we look at. It might be the case, but I haven't really seen anything conclusive to suggest that.
I agree, but I haven't seen anyone attempting to form that narrative. OP even acknowledged that NNUE made SF "a lot stronger". Maybe I missed some posts, but I just don't get the level of defensiveness these kind of posts bring. Just because something is great or #1 does not mean it can't be improved.
I agree I don't think this thread is really problematic in that respect. I, personally, am somewhat reacting to other threads I've seen recently, tbh, which is a bit off-topic.
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Uri Blass
Posts: 11136
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:37 am
Location: Tel-Aviv Israel

Re: Why is Stockfish with NNUE so blind sometimes

Post by Uri Blass »

dkappe wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:33 am Multipv 10? Isn’t that an admission of failure?
No
Maybe it suggets that the best setting for stockfish at long time control is with multi-pv.

The tests in the stockfish framework are only with bullet time control.

Maybe with time control like 90+30 stockfish can perform better with multi-pv

Without multi-pv stockfish does not see the right move even after a long time and I guess the problem is that if stockfish see that one move has probably a winning evaluation it prunes the rest of the moves.

This is what I get

[fen]2k2Br1/p6b/Pq1r4/1p2p1b1/1Ppp2p1/Q1P3N1/5RPP/R3N1K1 b - - 0 1[/fen]

Stockfish_22011019_x64_avx2:
NNUE evaluation using nn-ac07bd334b62.nnue enabled

61/20 58:54 18,937,794k 5,357k +4.03 Bg5-e3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-a2 d4-d3 Ng3-f1 Be3-b6 Qa3-c1 g4-g3 h2xg3 e5-e4 Qc1-d2 Qd6-e6 Qd2-f4 e4-e3 Nf1xe3 Bb6xe3 Qf4-f3 Qe6-e4 Qf3xe4
62/67+ 1:10:53 22,886,265k 5,380k +4.32 Bg5-e3
62/68+ 1:19:52 25,906,409k 5,406k +4.61 Bg5-e3
62/90 1:39:31 32,549,441k 5,451k +4.79 Bg5-e3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-a2 d4-d3 Ng3-f1 Be3-b6 Qa3-c1 g4-g3 h2xg3 e5-e4 Qc1-d2 Qd6-e6 Qd2-f4 e4-e3 Nf1xe3 Bb6xe3 Qf4-f3 Qe6-e4 Kg1-f1 Rg8-d8 Ra2-d2 Bh7-g6 Qf3xe4 Bg6xe4 Ne1-f3 Rd8-h8 Kf1-g1 Rh8-g8 Rd2-d1 Be4xf3 g2xf3 Rg8xg3+ Kg1-f1 Kc8-d7
63/111+ 2:32:13 50,530,979k 5,533k +5.04 Bg5-e3
63/123 3:02:00 60,583,725k 5,548k +4.97 Bg5-e3 Bf8xd6 Qb6xd6 Ra1-a2 d4-d3 Ng3-f1 Be3-b6 Qa3-c1 g4-g3 h2xg3 e5-e4 Qc1-f4 Qd6xf4 g3xf4 Bh7-f5 Ra2-b2 e4-e3 Nf1xe3 Bb6xe3 Ne1-f3 Bf5-g4 Nf3-h2 Bg4-e2 Nh2-f1 Be3-b6 Nf1-d2 Rg8-e8 Nd2-b1 Be2-g4 Kg1-f1 Kc8-d8 Rb2-d2 Bb6-e3 f4-f5 Re8-e5 Rd2-a2 Kd8-d7 Ra2-b2 Kd7-e7 f5-f6+ Ke7-f7 Rb2-a2 Re5-h5 Kf1-e1 Rh5-h1+ Rf2-f1 Rh1-h8 Ra2-b2 Rh8-e8 Rf1-f2 Re8-e5 Ke1-f1 Re5-h5 Kf1-e1 Be3-g5 Rf2-f1 Bg5-h4+ Ke1-d2 Rh5-e5 Rf1-f4 Bh4-g5 g2-g3 Re5-e2+ Kd2-c1 Re2-e1+ Kc1-d2 Re1-e5 Kd2-c1 Bg5xf4+ g3xf4 Re5-e1+ Kc1-d2 Re1-e8 Kd2-c1 Kf7xf6 Rb2-g2 Re8-e1+ Kc1-d2 Re1-d1+ Kd2-e3
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