How to kill Naum 4, playing you WITHOUT YOUR QUEEN !!! 2009

[bob]

... in fact, there are cualitative victories, and clasical wars... What had sayed the population in 1915, or son, when the great Jose Raul Capablanca was over the waves on the sea, if one of the oponents of these that he had the costumer to offer a rock in advatage, If a simple amateur would had sayed to the World Chess champion, the great machine (for me a real paradigm)... "Mister Capablanca: ok take my Quen for your bishop, and one of my rooks for one of your knight", and then after the moves, the amateur won, and the Chess World lost...?
In fact that was the situation playing against the Naum 4 ... I won, a player over 3.000 elo....then I wonder... What the Math are ?

Wasn't a proper win though.

He's a hopeless case Graham,he's confused when it comes to this statement:
A stupid win on time because of a more stupid server software bug
Dr.D

It is also a program bug. What GM would allow the position to become blocked like that, particularly against a lower-rated player? The software does have some say-so in how the game progresses, and it simply played poorly in this specific game, regardless of server or opponent issues. The program is responsible for not allowing this to happen, ever.

[Dr.Wael Deeb]

... in fact, there are cualitative victories, and clasical wars... What had sayed the population in 1915, or son, when the great Jose Raul Capablanca was over the waves on the sea, if one of the oponents of these that he had the costumer to offer a rock in advatage, If a simple amateur would had sayed to the World Chess champion, the great machine (for me a real paradigm)... "Mister Capablanca: ok take my Quen for your bishop, and one of my rooks for one of your knight", and then after the moves, the amateur won, and the Chess World lost...?
In fact that was the situation playing against the Naum 4 ... I won, a player over 3.000 elo....then I wonder... What the Math are ?

Wasn't a proper win though.

He's a hopeless case Graham,he's confused when it comes to this statement:
A stupid win on time because of a more stupid server software bug
Dr.D

It is also a program bug. What GM would allow the position to become blocked like that, particularly against a lower-rated player? The software does have some say-so in how the game progresses, and it simply played poorly in this specific game, regardless of server or opponent issues. The program is responsible for not allowing this to happen, ever.

This is true Bob....totaly agreed
Dr.D

[Father]

... me to. !! In fact Rybka 3 has taken note about the "stone wall", even though I belive the way has not ended...

[fern]

Ok, Pablo, you are a master in blocking positions, always the same, but then, which is the pleasure of that?
You already made a point. How many times you will do it again?
What about playing REAL chess?'
I suppose real chess is about trying something....
Fern

[Father]

... Fernando: I was good bloking positions, but time has change. Now the unique master are the machines. Machines like Rybka 3, are extremely dificult to beat or to draw. Sincerely, Rybka 3 has produced versus me a feeling clouse to frustration ... It is (Rybka 3) a very hard antiwall machine. I wonder if a new very solide software or machine could be better than Rybka 3 is, and beat it. You have the reson about real chess ... in some way to beat or draw Rybka 3 playing some tipe of blocked possitions, looks as if in a special moment, would be necesary to advance in the midle game starting real chess, at least for a few moves... Yo can to block Rybka 3 20 moves, but then it start to advace in Queen inside, on the center, and across the board opening the game ... I am going to hear your advice about real chess. It is a beutifull game. Ever beautifull...

Besides there are some "nicknames in playchess.com" engines room ussing Rybka 3 that rarely give me a simple draw like this one:

[d]8/1r4b1/4p1p1/3k1p1p/p1pPpP1P/PrP1B1PK/1PR1R3/8 w - - 0 124

[Event "Partida evaluada, 3m + 0s"]
[Site "Sala principal"]
[Date "2009.09.02"]
[Round "?"]
[White "Father"]
[Black "Thamover"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "D00"]
[WhiteElo "2076"]
[BlackElo "2626"]
[Annotator "RESTREPO,PABLO"]
[PlyCount "246"]
[EventDate "2009.09.02"]
[BlackTeam "Rybka 3: 16.8 plies; 298kN/s Intel(R) Xeon(R)"]
[TimeControl "180"]

1. d4 {1} d5 {B 0} 2. e3 {1} Nf6 {B 0} 3. c3 {0} Bf5 {B 0} 4. Bd3 {1} Bxd3 {B 0
} 5. Qxd3 {1} Nbd7 {B 0} 6. f4 {1} c5 {2} 7. Nf3 {-0.35/14 0} e6 {5} 8. Ne5 {
-0.28/14 0} Rc8 {13} 9. Nxd7 {-0.45/14 0} Qxd7 {3} 10. O-O {-0.73/15 0} Bd6 {
-0.75/15 3} 11. g3 {3} h5 {-0.99/13 3} 12. h4 {7} Qc6 {-0.98/12 3} 13. Nd2 {2}
b5 {-0.95/12 2} 14. a3 {2} a6 {-0.84/13 3} 15. Nf3 {1} Ne4 {-0.86/14 3} 16. Kg2
{3} O-O {-0.80/13 1} 17. Re1 {1} Rfd8 {-0.87/12 3} 18. Re2 {0} a5 {-0.99/11 2}
19. Bd2 {0} Be7 {-0.94/12 8} 20. Be1 {1} Bf6 {-0.85/11 4} 21. Kh2 {1} Rd7 {-0.
94/10 2} 22. Kg2 {0} Rdc7 {-0.90/11 3} 23. Kh2 {0} Qb7 {-0.92/11 3} 24. Kg2 {0}
Qb6 {-0.91/11 2} 25. Kh2 {0} Qc6 {-0.92/12 7} 26. Kg2 {1} Qb7 {-0.90/13 5} 27.
Kh2 {0} Qb6 {-0.90/13 4} 28. Kg2 {0} Be7 {-0.88/14 11} 29. Kh2 {0} Qc6 {-0.91/
11 3} 30. Kg2 {0} Qb7 {-0.88/11 2} 31. Kh2 {0} Rd8 {-0.92/10 1} 32. Kg2 {0} Bf6
{-0.87/10 2} 33. Kh2 {0} Rcc8 {-0.95/10 1} 34. Kg2 {1} Rf8 {-0.86/11 2} 35. Kh2
{0} a4 {-0.91/11 1} 36. Kg2 {1} Rfe8 {-0.83/10 2} 37. Kh2 {0} Be7 {-0.89/10 1}
38. Kg2 {0} Nd6 {-0.83/11 2} 39. Kh2 {1} Qb6 {-0.84/10 1} 40. Kg2 {1} Ne4 {-0.
82/12 2} 41. Kh2 {1} Rc7 {-0.87/10 1} 42. Kg2 {0} Rec8 {-0.82/11 1} 43. Kh2 {0}
Qc6 {-0.87/10 1} 44. Nd2 {1} Rd7 {-0.87/10 2} 45. Nxe4 {2} dxe4 {1} 46. Qd2 {
-0.91/11 0} Bf6 {-0.92/12 1} 47. Rg2 {1} g6 {-0.88/12 1} 48. Qe2 {1} Bg7 {-0.
83/12 1} 49. Kg1 {1} Rdd8 {-0.87/11 1} 50. Kh2 {0} Rd6 {-0.83/11 1} 51. Kg1 {0}
Rd7 {-0.84/13 2} 52. Kh2 {0} Kh7 {-0.83/12 1} 53. Kg1 {0} Qb7 {-0.83/12 1} 54.
Kh2 {0} Rdd8 {-0.83/12 1} 55. Kg1 {0} Bf8 {-0.83/10 1} 56. Kh2 {0} Qc6 {-0.83/
11 1} 57. Kg1 {0} Rc7 {-0.83/11 1} 58. Kh1 {0} Qb7 {-0.87/11 1} 59. Kh2 {0}
cxd4 {-0.83/12 1} 60. exd4 {2} Bg7 {-0.83/15 0} 61. Bf2 {1} Re7 {-0.69/14 6}
62. Be3 {0} Qd5 {-0.83/11 0} 63. Kh1 {3} Ree8 {-0.83/12 1} 64. Kh2 {1} Rd7 {-0.
83/11 1} 65. Kg1 {1} Rde7 {-0.83/11 1} 66. Kh2 {0} f5 {-0.83/12 2} 67. Kg1 {1}
Rd8 {-0.83/15 1} 68. Kh2 {0} Rc7 {-0.83/15 1} 69. Kg1 {1} Bf6 {-0.83/13 0} 70.
Kh2 {1} Kg7 {-0.83/13 0} 71. Kg1 {0} Rcd7 {-0.83/13 0} 72. Kh2 {0} Qc4 {-0.83/
14 1} 73. Qxc4 {3} bxc4 {-1.01/13 0} 74. Rc1 {2} Kf8 {-1.03/14 1} 75. Rcc2 {0}
Ke7 {-1.03/14 0} 76. Kh3 {1} Kd6 {-1.04/14 0} 77. Kh2 {0} Rb8 {-1.03/13 0} 78.
Kh3 {0} Kd5 {-1.04/13 0} 79. Kh2 {0} Bd8 {-1.03/11 0} 80. Kh3 {0} Rb3 {-1.03/
14 0} 81. Kh2 {0} Rdb7 {-1.03/14 0} 82. Rge2 {1} R7b6 {-1.03/12 0} 83. Kh3 {0}
R6b5 {-1.03/15 0} 84. Kh2 {0} Bf6 {-1.03/16 0} 85. Kh3 {0} Rb7 {-1.03/16 1} 86.
Kh2 {0} Rb8 {-1.03/15 0} 87. Kh3 {1} Be7 {-1.03/15 0} 88. Kh2 {0} R3b7 {-1.03/
15 0} 89. Kh3 {0} Bd8 {-1.03/16 0} 90. Kh2 {0} Ra7 {-1.03/16 0} 91. Kh3 {0} Bf6
{-1.03/17 0} 92. Kh2 {0} Be7 {-1.03/16 0} 93. Kh3 {0} Rab7 {-1.03/16 0} 94. Kh2
{0} Rd7 {-1.03/17 0} 95. Kh3 {0} Bf6 {-1.03/16 0} 96. Kh2 {0} Rb3 {-1.03/16 0}
97. Kh3 {0} Bd8 {-1.03/16 0} 98. Kh2 {0} Bc7 {-1.03/15 0} 99. Kh3 {0} Rb8 {-1.
03/16 0} 100. Kh2 {0} Rd6 {-1.03/17 0} 101. Kh3 {0} Rdb6 {-1.03/17 0} 102. Kh2
{0} Rb3 {-1.03/17 0} 103. Kh3 {0} Ba5 {-1.03/17 0} 104. Kh2 {0} Rd8 {-1.03/17 0
} 105. Kh3 {0} Bc7 {-1.03/16 0} 106. Kh2 {0} Rc8 {-1.03/16 0} 107. Kh3 {0} Rcb8
{-1.03/18 0} 108. Kh2 {0} Bd8 {-1.03/16 0} 109. Kh3 {0} Bf6 {-1.03/16 0} 110.
Kh2 {0} R3b5 {-1.03/15 0} 111. Kh3 {0} Bh8 {-1.03/16 0} 112. Kh2 {0} Bg7 {-1.
03/17 0} 113. Kh3 {0} R5b7 {-1.03/17 0} 114. Kh2 {0} Rd8 {-1.03/16 0} 115. Kh3
{0} Rf8 {-1.03/17 0} 116. Kh2 {0} Rb3 {-1.03/17 0} 117. Kh3 {0} Rf7 {-1.03/17 0
} 118. Kh2 {0} Re7 {-1.03/17 1} 119. Kh3 {0} Rbb7 {-1.03/16 1} 120. Kh2 {0} Rb8
{-1.03/14 0} 121. Kh3 {1} Rb3 {0.00/16 1} 122. Kh2 {0} Ra7 {0.00/14 0} 123. Kh3
{0} Rab7 {0.00/18 0 (Lag: Av=0.24s, max=0.9s)} 1/2-1/2

[fern]

When I talk of real chess I refer to play without other end than to get fun probing ideas, fighting all the time, no matter if a defeat is on the way.
But of course perhaps you get much fun just drawing these machines.

My best
Fern

[Father]

Fernando:

Thanks for your post and your ideas. I would like to say you, how I usually play the chess games in real life, whern I am person to person with my human being friends: “all the time in attack or aggressive style". I started playing or learned when I was old: 17 years, then readying to Bobby Fischer books and games. Fischer’s knowledge is my master idea.

Until Chess Challenger, 1987 more or less, ever I beat chess computers in attack usually playing white against French defense with a bishop sacrifice in h7. Then appeared Designer Match V, a nice machine of a friend of mine. Designer has brute force, system "A." ...What a difficult engine it was to beat.!! But like usually ever was. Fisrt game against a nbew machine, first draw or victory in my side.

But the worst this machine - usually games-. looks its playing as without a plan of game, different its plan to wait for the first slim mistake for the human being inside, then we are food for the microships.

But I could see how the machine did not do advances in certain type of position. Then I started the antitheses. An after that were born the CDS and Fritz machines, and I could be more evolved in learn about machines.

After that I have been trying to have fidelity for the lines of antitheses technique I used. And sincerely I am try to say something: "probably the technique is alive nowadays" because of its fundamental playing engines, but of course must be complement with more flexible ideas of human being inside... and some things are nice and incredible, like take a draw playing in 2009 against Naum 4 human beings close to one Queen down and a rook for one of its Knights, engine over 3.000 elo.

I like the most aggressive style playing versus humans or against machines over a wood desk.

Rybka`s side looks have took part of the ant wall designers... but even thought that decision Rybka 3 looks into the wall at least 20 moves ... then there are a long way for being discover for human being inside today.

"Rybka 3 looks with out a flexible intelligence", I would like that Mister Vasik take note of that, with all respect because this machine can be put into a "rigid way" again and again...ever.

Now, If human designer designs a new super software that kill Rybka 3, but then he or she forgets to put in its algorithm the idea or broken the wall, then this new chess machine will be and easily target for ant chess or ant computers techniques...

I want to say every chess machine designer: "Thanks for their work making the chess machines computers" they have done us a real good time.

Best,

Pablo Ignacio RESTREPO S.
Father playchess.com user