A problem CC community has

[chrisw]

I know David for 25+ years and I am confident he will go all the way the programmers want him to go. The problem is not David nor the ICGA (=David) but its programmers and the ongoing boycott of Rybka as lastly demonstrated when Peter Skinner was in favor to allow Rybka in his CCT tournament.

Everybody knows Rybka 3 is above suspicion (even Ken Thompson said so) and yet the boycott continues. Until then the problem remains. First something has to change between the ears of some programmers before the CC community can move on. It has been long enough by now.

Then why not ask Vas to talk to the ICGA and the case can be reopened. he could perhaps show the R3 code to ken who I think would be trusted by all sides.

The offer is appreciated but I think you first need to check some of the programmers else you will go the CSVN way.

I believe we all have said the same thing. Should he show that the current Rybka is clean, there would be no problem letting it compete. The only issue would be the current ban for past (very) bad behavior...

if anyone should be banned for "very bad behaviour" it should be one Robert Hyatt for false and malicious allegations against an entirely innocent competitor whose program he was unable to either beat or understand. Repeated and unjustified accusations of theft, appeals to, and actual disassembley of, and illegal publication of the internals of that program and then further participation in multiple libels and bullying via the world's press. I would doubt that there has ever been a more disgusting case of abuse in computer chess than that perpetrated by Hyatt here.

[Terry McCracken]

I know David for 25+ years and I am confident he will go all the way the programmers want him to go. The problem is not David nor the ICGA (=David) but its programmers and the ongoing boycott of Rybka as lastly demonstrated when Peter Skinner was in favor to allow Rybka in his CCT tournament.

Everybody knows Rybka 3 is above suspicion (even Ken Thompson said so) and yet the boycott continues. Until then the problem remains. First something has to change between the ears of some programmers before the CC community can move on. It has been long enough by now.

Then why not ask Vas to talk to the ICGA and the case can be reopened. he could perhaps show the R3 code to ken who I think would be trusted by all sides.

The offer is appreciated but I think you first need to check some of the programmers else you will go the CSVN way.

I believe we all have said the same thing. Should he show that the current Rybka is clean, there would be no problem letting it compete. The only issue would be the current ban for past (very) bad behavior...

if anyone should be banned for "very bad behaviour" it should be one Robert Hyatt for false and malicious allegations against an entirely innocent competitor whose program he was unable to either beat or understand. Repeated and unjustified accusations of theft, appeals to, and actual disassembley of, and illegal publication of the internals of that program and then further participation in multiple libels and bullying via the world's press. I would doubt that there has ever been a more disgusting case of abuse in computer chess than that perpetrated by Hyatt here.

Throwing another hissy-fit I see, Chris.
Nothing you said could be farther from the truth, something completely alien to you.

[chrisw]

I know David for 25+ years and I am confident he will go all the way the programmers want him to go. The problem is not David nor the ICGA (=David) but its programmers and the ongoing boycott of Rybka as lastly demonstrated when Peter Skinner was in favor to allow Rybka in his CCT tournament.

Everybody knows Rybka 3 is above suspicion (even Ken Thompson said so) and yet the boycott continues. Until then the problem remains. First something has to change between the ears of some programmers before the CC community can move on. It has been long enough by now.

Then why not ask Vas to talk to the ICGA and the case can be reopened. he could perhaps show the R3 code to ken who I think would be trusted by all sides.

The offer is appreciated but I think you first need to check some of the programmers else you will go the CSVN way.

I believe we all have said the same thing. Should he show that the current Rybka is clean, there would be no problem letting it compete. The only issue would be the current ban for past (very) bad behavior...

if anyone should be banned for "very bad behaviour" it should be one Robert Hyatt for false and malicious allegations against an entirely innocent competitor whose program he was unable to either beat or understand. Repeated and unjustified accusations of theft, appeals to, and actual disassembley of, and illegal publication of the internals of that program and then further participation in multiple libels and bullying via the world's press. I would doubt that there has ever been a more disgusting case of abuse in computer chess than that perpetrated by Hyatt here.

Throwing another hissy-fit I see, Chris.
Nothing you said could be farther from the truth, something completely alien to you.

An expected partisan response! Look, if Hyatt is allowed to gratuitously abuse other programmers, then why can those other programmers not be defended in like style?

The moderators should decide really. Is Hyatt to be allowed to gratuitously abuse Vas at will here, or not?

[fern]

You are right, but how can a simple amateur becomes a member?

Fern

[Harvey Williamson]

You are right, but how can a simple amateur becomes a member?

Fern

http://ilk.uvt.nl/icga/organisation/member.php

[Rebel]

We can read lots of posts about how crap was last ICGA WCCC, lots of ideas, lots of people in favor/against any idea. No real fresh air. Just confusing particles flying around, while the best way to do something would probably be to act from inside ICGA. To become members, to come with a revisitation of rules. To finally get a clear sentence about Ippo/Robbo/Ivan + derivatives. Because the community can solve this problem only if it can look at it straight into its "eyes".

Is the problem the different hardware of each participant? ICGA organized the WCSC just after WCCC. Engines running the same software, and Hiarcs won it. Stockfish and Komodo would have good chances there.

Is the problem rule #2? Why don't introduce a rule about a separate Championship where derivatives are allowed? (The above sentence would be needed, of course)

But what many people seem to not understand is there's already a organization, and it can be improved a lot with positive proposals. E.g., Adam Hair had an excellent idea about satellite locations around the world, to allow more programmers to participate.

Let us give ICGA positive inputs for the future!

Yes, join the ICGA and join the debate there.

Harvey, allow me a few words,

I know David for 25+ years and I am confident he will go all the way the programmers want him to go. The problem is not David nor the ICGA (=David) but its programmers and the ongoing boycott of Rybka as lastly demonstrated when Peter Skinner was in favor to allow Rybka in his CCT tournament.

Everybody knows Rybka 3 is above suspicion (even Ken Thompson said so) and yet the boycott continues. Until then the problem remains. First something has to change between the ears of some programmers before the CC community can move on. It has been long enough by now.

Please do NOT misquote Ken. He did not say that Rybka 3 is "above suspicion". He said the evidence was not as clear and that nothing had been proven YET...

Ah, mister accuser is back.

KT - if rybka-3 had been entered in its first icga event, i would say it was not derivative.

[hgm]

Well, that doesn't really sound like "above suspicion", right?

It sounds more like it is a borderline case, just in the clear. In fact the 'if-clause' plays a very important role: logically the above isn't any statement at all. Because R3 was not entered in the first event. "if FALSE then NOMATTERWHAT" doesn't mean anything. It is simply a tautology for TRUE.

In particuar it doesn't say what Ken's opinion was now that R3 was not entered first, but after another Rybka version...

[Harvey Williamson]

Well, that doesn't really sound like "above suspicion", right?

It sounds more like it is a borderline case, just in the clear.

and that R1 and R2 were not clean.

[Rebel]

I know David for 25+ years and I am confident he will go all the way the programmers want him to go. The problem is not David nor the ICGA (=David) but its programmers and the ongoing boycott of Rybka as lastly demonstrated when Peter Skinner was in favor to allow Rybka in his CCT tournament.

Everybody knows Rybka 3 is above suspicion (even Ken Thompson said so) and yet the boycott continues. Until then the problem remains. First something has to change between the ears of some programmers before the CC community can move on. It has been long enough by now.

Then why not ask Vas to talk to the ICGA and the case can be reopened. he could perhaps show the R3 code to ken who I think would be trusted by all sides.

The offer is appreciated but I think you first need to check some of the programmers else you will go the CSVN way.

I believe we all have said the same thing. Should he show that the current Rybka is clean, there would be no problem letting it compete. The only issue would be the current ban for past (very) bad behavior...

I have to see it before I will believe it. The CSVN and recent CCT case are not very hope giving. I think there are some programmers who find the current situation conveniently.

[F. Bluemers]

I know David for 25+ years and I am confident he will go all the way the programmers want him to go. The problem is not David nor the ICGA (=David) but its programmers and the ongoing boycott of Rybka as lastly demonstrated when Peter Skinner was in favor to allow Rybka in his CCT tournament.

Everybody knows Rybka 3 is above suspicion (even Ken Thompson said so) and yet the boycott continues. Until then the problem remains. First something has to change between the ears of some programmers before the CC community can move on. It has been long enough by now.

Then why not ask Vas to talk to the ICGA and the case can be reopened. he could perhaps show the R3 code to ken who I think would be trusted by all sides.

The offer is appreciated but I think you first need to check some of the programmers else you will go the CSVN way.

I believe we all have said the same thing. Should he show that the current Rybka is clean, there would be no problem letting it compete. The only issue would be the current ban for past (very) bad behavior...

I have to see it before I will believe it. The CSVN and recent CCT case are not very hope giving. I think there are some programmers who find the current situation TRUTHFULL.

there,I corrected it for you